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Revision as of 21:18, 15 September 2021

Sogdia has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. Review: October 11, 2016. (Reviewed version).

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Template:WPASIA10kPlease add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Central Asia Mid‑importance Sogdia is part of WikiProject Central Asia, a project to improve all Central Asia-related articles. This includes but is not limited to Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Tibet, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Xinjiang and Central Asian portions of Iran, Pakistan and Russia, region-specific topics, and anything else related to Central Asia. If you would like to help improve this and other Central Asia-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.Central AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Central AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Central AsiaCentral Asia Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Former countries (inactive) This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesFormer countries Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Iran Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Guild of Copy Editors This article was copy edited by Twofingered Typist, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on 9 October 2016.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors

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"Persian" vs. Iranian deities

@Aryzad:, can you explain what your objection to the use of "Persian" for these deities is based on? The article linked to is Persian mythology; furthermore, "Persian" and "Iranian" are largely synonymous, as far as I know. My only concern is consistency.--Ermenrich (talk) 15:15, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi there. Both "Persian" and "Iranian" can be used to refer, for example, the Safavids or Sassanids; But not here. Calling those deities "Persian" is like calling Sogdian language an Eastern Persian language, which is wrong. When Zoroastrianization of Persis (Persia proper) took place, the Sogdians were Zoroastrian for centuries. Aryzad (talk) 18:51, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Is there any article or a book that you are aware of that discusses the Persianization of the Iranian people and the development of the Persian language as a result of interaction of other Iranian languages? Hiesen2 (talk) 16:06, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

List of notable people from Sogdia

Hi User:HistoryofIran, as I explained, the article is about the geographical area and Iranian civilisation, whose culture and language survived until the late 10th century Because the article, and the list, are not about an ethnic group or nation (which Sogdia never was) it is perfectly legit to include, e.g., Avicenna and the others you deleted in the listof "notable people from Sogdia", viz. notable "Sogdians". Consider also that this is an article about an ancient civilisation and that is simply a list. So, at any rate, I don't understand why fussing over this.--Haldir Marchwarden (talk) 20:50, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Please read the article - it is just much about the people as its about the geographical area. Sogdia was also a geographical region indeed, but 'Sogdian' is exclusively referred to the people that actually were ethnic Sogdians, a people with their own language, culture, and whatnot. Please show a source that uses Sogdian as a geographical term, and not an ethnic one - which also goes for claims that Avicenna or a Greek king like Antiochus are Sogdians. All in all, this is pure WP:OR. Also, please be nice, this is not okay . Neither is your continued edit warring - you have to reach WP:CONSENSUS. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:55, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

No man, that would be an article about the Sogdian people, which may be created one day. But this is an article about the civilisation and the geographical area. I really don't understand why you are fretting about this. I even changed the section's title to appease your nitpicking (though I don't think it was necessary, because the meaning of "Sogdian" in "notable Sogdians" in this article must be clear, and because Iranians from Sogdia, well, were "Sogdians").--Haldir Marchwarden (talk) 21:01, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

LouisAragon, you reverted my edits, fair. I am happy that you showed interest in this matter. Could you tell us whether you agree with including people from Sogdia (specifically: Narshakhi, Avicenna, Bukhari) in the section about notable people from Sogdia/Sogdians of this article about the ancient geographical region (and civilisation) of Sogdia? Could you explain why? Also, take notice that with your action you deleted "Antiochus I Soter" (and the sources for the claim) which was part of the stable version of this article.--Haldir Marchwarden (talk) 21:12, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

• "'Sogdians: Inhabitants of Sogdiana (Sughd), mentioned by Strabo (XI, 11, 2–4) and Ptolemy (VI, 12). Although previously under Achaemenid, Seleucid, Graeco-Bactrian, and nomadic (Saka?) Kangju rule, a more distinct Sogdian culture, typified by agriculture, commercial trade, and use of the Sogdian script, emerged during the 1st–3rd centuries. Increased irrigation, urbanization, and the development of literature, art, and architecture, coupled with continued expansion of trade networks (northward into Chach and the steppes, eastward into China), resulted in Sogdian cultural and economic flourishing during the 4th–6th centuries." -- Mark Dicken (2018) "Sogdians" in Oliver Dickens. Oxford Dictionary of Late Antiquity. Oxford Universtiy Press.

I thus fail to see how the historic figures added by you, such as Antiochus I Soter and Avicenna, belong on this page. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:18, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

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