Thank you! Happy nowruz to all of u! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.217.115.92 (talk) 06:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

Straw Poll

Seems two sections were left out of the vote. Please vote for only one image (we dont have room for more than one image in each section). And if there is no consensus or no votes, then we will just keep the pictures that originally were, or add completely new ones. Closing date set for March 25th:

Architecture Votes:

• #2 or #5: because of better resolution, and better craftsmanship.--Zereshk 11:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
• #10 or better version of bridge picture or #1. The Behnam 16:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• #1, Or #7. --Pejman47 20:13, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• #1 (or 5 - if there is a tie only).SSZ 15:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
• #7 Shervink 15:22, 23 March 2007 (UTC)shervink

Poll closed

• #5 or #6 or #7, --Nightryder84 03:08, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• #2 or #5 or 9 --Azerbaijani 03:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• #5 or #7 --Mardavich 04:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• #7 --Arad 22:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Results of votes as of March 28:
#1: 3 votes
#2: 2 votes
#5: 4 votes (SSZ changed his vote on closing date:)
#7: 4 votes
#6: 1 vote
#10: 1 votes
#9: 1 votes

IMAGE #1 has the majority of votes (*3*)

No it doesnt. #5 and #7 also have 2 votes. That's called a no consensus.--Zereshk 01:26, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I counted the FIRST VOTE (and the second vote if there was a tie only). Pic #1 according to rules wins.

You are the only one who has specified a "first" and "second" vote, and you even changed specified this after the vote was closed:. "Or" does not carry any hierarchy or rank in meaning.--Zereshk 03:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but you are wrong again. I had to clarify my position WHILE the vote was still OPEN on March 25th Eastern Time because you decided, all by yourself, to go and precipitously change both pictures, also there was NO agreement from anyone on WP to do so. I and the rest of us already gave you a "free pass" for your calligraphy pic. (I maintain it is a beautiful picture though). For the rest, please only blame yourself to ask people to vote "ONLY for 1 image" and go yourself immediately vote for 2 pics.

• I did not vote for 2 pictures. Nobody did. That's why I used the word "OR", instead of "AND". We all voted for our favorite pics. The one with the most votes would be picked. As we did.
• Even if we take it your way, your pic still is in a tie with #7. It doesnt win. Hence no consensus.
• The vote was NOT open on March 25th. I clearly stated the closing date to be on March 25th. That means you had until midnight of March 24th to cast your vote.
• I did not "change" any pictures. Please show us where I did. I only added to the pictures under vote, just like you did.
• You were the one who suggested a vote be taken. Therefore I will not accept any objection from you now saying "there was no agreement to do so".
• User:The Behnam changed his vote after closing date: .
• Look, I have no trouble with #1. But it has low resolution, and therefore does not satisfy article 5 of WP:IUP. An image for the architecture section of Iran should be: taken in daylight, have optimal resolution, and be quai-comprehensively encompassing of the architectural heritage of Iran. #1 does not satisfy all that. I also am reluctant to use #1, because it gives the impression that Iran's architecture is only about mosques. And that's not true. The gonbad, iwan, qanat, howz, ab anbar, badgeer, and many other indigenous Iranian architectural elements are not related to religion. But if we must use religious edifices, at least use one where the design and artistic elements are dominant, such as #5.--Zereshk 00:36, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I see no reason that we have to respect a closing date, especially when it comes to a tie. I have chosen #1 to break this tie. It is evident that you are against using one of those mosques but this is no reason to dodge consensus by hiding behind an arbitrary "closing date." The Behnam 01:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Taking part in a poll, and not respecting its rules after the result is not right. I also agree with Zereshk that the Yazd Mosque picture should not be used. There are better pictures and many other better works of architecture.--Nightryder84 01:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Again, I don't care about his close date when breaking a tie. I decided I would stop the dispute by voting for one of the three tied pictures. I remembered mosques similar to the Friday mosque standing out so I voted for #1. Unfortunately Zereshk has an anti-mosque bias. I agree that there are better works, such as the si-o-se pol bridge of my initial vote, and even better pictures of that style of mosque, but that style happened to stand out here so I chose #1. The Behnam 02:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

If you "dont care about the closing date", then you wont mind if I add my vote now too then.--Nightryder84 03:08, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Guys, I think we are talking about "peanuts" here but here we go:

1. Zereshk, first thank you for your numerous contributions to Misplaced Pages and the same to ALL of you.

2. I did not ask for a vote. In fact, I said literally that it was a "minor disagreement" early on and was ready to discuss, and you immediately decided to go for a vote days ago (which did not bother me either.)

3. Also, you asked for "1 vote ONLY" (see above at the top) and you immediately voted for 2 pics yourself, as earlier said. I decided to count the FIRST VOTE ONLY. and as you have yourself clearly agreed/stated: “PIC#1 had MOST votes among all the pics but not an absolute majority of votes.” And I agree. (Until Behman added his vote to #1 which gave it an absolute majority – also it was not required in order to have the image selected, if you ask me)

2 bis. Contrary to what you say, I did not change my vote for pic#1. It was there since March 23rd. On March 25 you closed the vote and made a decision, all by yourself, to change the 2 pics, also none of them had an absolute majority. I let you off the hook again (within the same week) for the picture regarding the miniature that you replaced with your own picture. (above the calligaraphy pic that you changed early on, in the same section.)

4. I told you the same night, before you do anything, that I was ready to discuss another picture and discuss it with you before taking any further action, since you seemed to be unhappy because it was Mosque apparently. You, de facto declined my offer and proceeded with your unilateral changes again, without any consensus from anybody nor anything supported by our collective votes.

5. Please note that I find the architecture of Mosques beautiful (including this one in Yazd).

6. I don't think that "to display a pic of a Mosque makes people believe that Iran is about Mosques ONLY" (I am paraphrasing you here). It's ONE pic (ONLY) among MANY other beautiful pics that you had the opportunity to choose from yourself for other sections of the article about IRAN.

7. You can take a look at the page for Switzerland for example and you will see there is a beautiful(in my opinion) picture of a Cathedral (in Lausanne) on the main page and no, it does not make me feel that Switzerland is "a fanatic religious society" when I see that picture.

8. Respectfully, you have made other comments previously for things written in the article about Iran like "it makes it look than we are worst that an African country.”(or something like that). I am paraphrasing you again, but I think it is first an insult for this African country you mention by name and a prejudice for you to think that way. (I did not comment then because I did not want to flame but it seems it is a recurring theme here). Be self-confident and proud of all the countries historical HERITAGE. At least I am. If people are prejudiced for no reason and remain so after education (Misplaced Pages IS education), then let it be. It says more about them than about Iran.

9. Finally and again, as said from the very start: I am ready, like probably many people here, to discuss other pics if that makes you unhappy to choose pic#1 (also I must clearly repeat it has MOST VOTES as of March 25, according to YOUR OWN RULES - not mine, and as you acknowledged clearly yourself at the beginning.) Best, SSZ

OK then. Lets talk about another image then. How about #5 or #7? It seems there is a large consensus on both. Is that acceptable to you? If not, then we will discuss this matter further.--Zereshk 19:31, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Pic#5 is one I voted for myself at the beginning, as you can see. The only reason it was my second choice is that it is not "unique" per say in terms of architecture (also it IS beautiful.)SSZ 06:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

So do we have a go on #5 then?

Also, I have nothing against mosques. And I do think they are all beautiful. But in architecture, beauty is only one of many elements that make a work stand out. One can get an F in architecture school if one designs a building only based on beauty. Now, if all of Iran's architecture were to be summed in one picture, what would really matter is representation, i.e. how good that picture is able to show the accomplishments of Iran's architecture. At 72 dpi, your Yazd mosque picture is not able to capture all the details of the iwan. Aside from poor resolution, the Yazd mosque is only unique in the sense that it has a uniquely tall iwan. Still, if I were to represent Iran's architectural heritage with a mosque, I would pick a mosque from the Ray style because it encompasses all previous originally Iranian styles. The Yazd mosque is from the Azari style. It is beautiful, but inherits less from Iran's pre-Islamic styles. The picture #2 that I proposed, and which you shot down, was not only from the Ray style, but was also not a mosque. I think it is very important that people know that Iran's architecture is not just about mosques, but many other things as well. Oh well, we'll go with #5 I guess, C'est la vie.--Zereshk 16:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm for #5 too if that will get this silly conflict out of the way. The Behnam 16:18, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, Here I add my vote for #7 to finish the discussion :-D. I know it's my own pic but whatever. --Arad 22:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Art votes:

• #2 or #6: because they have more color, better resolution, depicts art and love and not war and kings and royalty, and unlike the Farshchian pic (#1), is not "fairuse", which we all know ends up getting deleted by the Image Police.--Zereshk 11:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
• #2 - 3 is good too, but kind of violent. #2 is pleasant and the people don't look like Mongols. The Behnam 16:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• #1, Or #2. --Pejman47 20:13, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• #1 (or 3).SSZ 15:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
• #3 Shervink 15:22, 23 March 2007 (UTC)shervink

Poll Closed

• #2 --Nightryder84 03:08, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Results of votes:
#1: 2 votes
#2: 4 votes
#3: 1 votes
#6: 1 votes

IMAGE #3 has a majority of votes. (*3*). (#1 & 2 are in a tie.)

Not really. #2 has 3 votes.--Zereshk 01:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

(it depends how you count :-)SSZ 06:51, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Comments

Dear WHO EVER MADE THIS ARTICLE Great job thank you for your efforts I realy like this site

There are although several problem s I have seen and I think either are mistakes by a foreigner or a very uneducated iranian.

One of the major ones is that Zarahustra or Zartosht NEVER and in his poetry and writings claims that he is a prophet of god or sent from god, which thereforew you can not technicaly call the man a PROPHET but a teacher as he calls himself. He also calls himself "Awakner" or somebody who wakes others or move them into other states of minds which is 180 degrees opposite to the prophets of semetic religions and cultures like Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

It is extremely unfair to call the guy a PROPHET that is a huge insult and I feel disgraced. He was in fact a thinker and poet with thoughts and reasons and so much other things rather than superstitious ideas and groundless claims. Still after 700 years after his existence the best roman philosophers had no thoughts even close to his ideas and thoughts and yet philosophers around the world think of his ideas as POST MODERNISM. Take note that we are in the era of modernism!

Sec of all you call Cyrus the Great and then also Alexander the Great. which one is great!?? The persian king which salutes other conqured cultures gods and respects other nations and rights the first human rights declaration and frees countless slaves or Alexander who burns persian libraries and rapes women and childeren and burns down cities??? OMFG

Somebody needs education and some common sense

Iran is a country which I have been in and I have spoken farsi with many many different people there and the country is 80 million and you guys claim ONLY 40 million speak FARSI??? woooow what do they speak then??? armenian or arabic? then you say we have survived the arabic invasion by speaking farsi or persian??? come on be consistent. if you want to know it is not diffrent languages they are different dialects of same language which is spoken in south of former russia in arabian smaler countries, in parts of Iraq, Kuwait, Pakestan, tajikestan, Afghanestan and some other smaller countries around. what even a gerat deal of the languages and words in european languages are based on persian language and words. in fact essential words such as Mother, Brother, father, Daughter, Bad, Good, Kiss ...

there are so many other things that I want to say but there is no time to !

I hope to see a sunny day without the clouds of the deception and lies.

and I hate to type long letter as I know you dont have the patience to read it and will delete it after reading the 2nd paragraph

History section needs to be reduced (significantly)

Previous discussion is archived here: Talk:Iran/Archive_7#Vote_on_trimming_the_History_Section. External parties were invited to opine on adequate size of the history section. Myself and one other editor responded, and we both agreed that the history section should be reduced, so that remains on the todo list. (It's not a question of removing the material, but what the appropriate balance is between the subsection on the main Iran article page, and the detailed history page(s).) --Psm 01:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Unfortunately previous attempts to do so were thwarted. The Behnam 01:46, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The history section cannot be reduced, as it is already very very short. You are talking about a nation with 3000+ years of history (and this is excluding Irans pre-Iranic history, the region of Iran has 7000 years of history...), how are you going to shorten it any further? Each part of Irans history that is dealt with in this article is very very short.Azerbaijani 03:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

There was a clear consensus that the history section should be not reduced for reasons explained in the previous discussion. --Mardavich 04:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

History section needs to be expanded. --alidoostzadeh 04:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The section about the Greco-Persian Wars is ludicrously loaded, as it stands. I dare not edit it right now as I can see this article and section is in the middle of much discussion. FWIW I also think the history section is way too long given that it has an article of its own. People seem to be getting quite emotional about this, but it's not about dismissing or inflating the importance of Iran's history, it's about breaking up the information into manageable pages.Thermaland 12:56, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

history section can not be any shorter than it is given the length of Iran's history Gol 09:37, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I tried editing the first sub section of the history of Iran. Not much of a change though. I only rewrote some sentences, and took out some redundant passages that were repeated in the text. See if yall approve. I'll go thru the rest as time permits me.--Zereshk 20:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for trying size reduction. The Behnam 16:26, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Bias, slight removal.

Edited out the following passage: "Also, Iran has never attacked any of its neighbors in the region in the past 300 years, even when it was badly provoked in 1998 by the Taliban in Afghanistan, which had a much smaller army." from the Military section.

It's an idealistic and unnecessary POV addition to the section. (It was at the end of aforementioned section.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ninjarrr (talk • contribs) 20:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC). Ninjarrr 20:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Not really, It is a material FACT that Iran has NOT attacked ANY country in 300 years.SSZ 06:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it was removed because of the part of you saying that the Taliban in Afghanistan had a much smaller army. Not sure why else though.

Um, if by Iran you also refer to Persia, then it most definitely has attacked another country in the last 300 years. A number of attacks actually. 300 years ago was 1707. For perhaps the most significant attacker in that period, please read Nader Shah. The Behnam 15:16, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I think they mean after Nader Shah. They should be more clear and say "for nearly 300 years".--Zereshk 16:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Well the Qajars tried invasions too but were generally incompetent; didn't Agha Mohammad Khan (who was somewhat successful at it) sack Tblisi? And Fath attempted something though it might be called reactive invasion. I think that mentioning anything like 'how long its been' should be avoided since it suggests that Iran has just been some peaceful angel. It is quite reasonable to suggest that Iran didn't invade other countries because it was no longer capable, not because it just didn't want to. The Behnam 17:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I dont think judging intentions would prove anything. "If Iran could, it would" is a double edged argument. It cuts both ways: If the US could drop nukes on the USSR and China and Iran, and get away with it, it most certainly would too. I think the author of the 300 year sentence was having a comparison in mind: There was no invasion in the sense of what Britain did to India, France did to Algeria, Belgium did to Congo, the Ducth, Portuguese, Italians, etc.

I wouldnt count the attacks on Tblisi as eligible either, because Georgia was a "province of Persia" during the 17th century. As Iranica states: "Agha Mohammad Khan was determined to recover those provinces that had once formed part of the Safavid empire. Georgia was the special object of his ambitions", and again: "For much of the 18th century Persia generally maintained its position in Georgian affairs, but the viceroys asserted their independence whenever the opportunity arose. They looked for support to Russia". And the Russians did drive out a Persian minority from Tbilisi. Persia and Georgia have had much mutual cultural overlappings, influences, and exchanges since the Achaemenid days. The word "Gor" of Gorjestan (Georgia) is even originally a Persian word. They were a vassal of the Sassanids, and by the end of the 16th century the Georgians were threatening to replace the qezelbash, as the military aristocracy of Persia. Persian was the official administrative language of the country during Safavid times. And even today, Ossetians constitute a minority of Georgia. My point: Tbilisi is different, they were part of Iran for many centuries, an Iranian cultural satellite, so to speak.--Zereshk 22:50, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

The military section reads " Iran's military doctrine and capacity is defense of its own territorial integrity only." The first part of this statement would be best supported by quotes from Iran's constitution, leaders, or similar documents. In the second half, one should note that ,military capacity is a combination of both technical means and tactical skill/leadership. As such, stating that "defense" is Iran's "only" military capacity hints at a bias. The phrase would be better supported by showing Iran's physical means in comparison to other "defense" oriented countries and listing previous Iranian military activities as well as leadership rhetoric.

It seems we should just remove "capacity," which seems dubious anyway. Thanks for pointing that out. The Behnam 18:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

State Sponsors of Terror

1. Isn't it worth mentioning that Iran is considered a state-sponsor of terror? I mean, seriously, it's not even mentioned in the[REDACTED] article?

2. What about the fact that Iranian officials have explicitly and publicly threatened to "wipe Israel off the map"? This is not worth mentioning?

3. In the US article, the author mentions some BBC poll that found 51% of those surveyed believed the US had a primarily negative influence in the world. Why doesn't the article on Iran mention that 54% of those surveyed in the same BBC poll believe that Iran had a primarily negative influence in the world.

4. The bias is baffling. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stewstew03 (talk • contribs) 04:24, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

response

Response also..

1. While this may be true from a certain perspective, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. This represents a non neutral point of view and also would earn the article a US-view tag.

2. I wouldnt doubt youd hear much different from americans or israelis about what theyd do about Iran, they just say it.

3. This isnt a debate forum about world opinions and whos right or wrong, its an encyclopedia.

4. Lol... pot calling the kettle black?

I realize this isnt a forum, my comments are simply pointing out that the above statements would violate the wp:npov and also would represent almost a solely american point of view on the matter. Species2112 13:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Response

1. No because WHO says so? This article is NOT about what others say about Iran (whether true or not) but about IRAN itself. This point is however mentionned in the article about the United States-Iran relations. Besides, there are so many things that Iran says about the United States that it would be a waste of time to mention them all here. (lol)

2. Iranian officials have said it was meant in the sense of "the end" of Soviet Union and not to be considered militarily. Whether true or not, it is very controversial and I would leave that OUTSIDE of Misplaced Pages, except for the specific article relating to this subject that you can find by yourself. You just need to search for it, because it is more like news also (see also WP:NOT).

3. I know about the BBC poll. If the BBC says so, it must be that the image of the USA must be really really bad in the world (lol). Why not mention it about IRAN? First, because this is an encyclopedia and an article about Iran does not need to be a perfect mirror of the article about the United States. Second, because most international medias, including the good old BBC, are controled by you know who :-), so it does not need to be a true and fair representation of REALITY, necessarily, when it comes to Iran.

4. May be too much Fox News/"Faux News" recently?SSZ 07:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I tend to agree with the points made from both sides. I also think that a criticism of Iran section is worthy of inclusion to the article. There is enough documented criticism of Iran from all media sources to warrant a whole article. Jamie 10:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Let's add "the Great Satan" to the US article; plenty of groups have agreed. The Behnam 10:42, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I would agree that there is a bias. This article http://en.wikipedia.org/Operation_Ajax related to Iran paints the British as crafty conspiritors. SSZ, according to what you said, that would also be heresay. "Who says" the British lied to the U.S. about Iran turning communist? If there is suitable evidence that something is true, based on intelegence or retrospective like the Op. Ajax article, why can we not mention it? This is like having an article on Germany and not mention the holocaust. Some dispute the holocaust ever happened, but reasonable people believe it did happen and the Germany article mentions it. The Behnam, it can be proven that the Iranian government stated that they would like to wipe Isreal of the map, plan on making nukes, sponsor terrorism, etc. Where is the proof that America is in fact, Satan? However I think I probably agree with the broader point that opinion polls shouldn't be in articles if that is what you're implying. Ryratt 19:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

The western media refuses to accept the facts and they keep repeating the same trash about "wiping Israel off the map" again and again and again, as if trying to "seek a crisis" (in the words of Javad Zarif on The Charlie Rose Show). Here is an exact text, with my translation, of Ahmadinejad's interview with France's Channel 2 recently:

شما گفته ايد كه اسرائيل بايد محو شود .محو اسرائيل از روي نقشه يك آرزوست يا يك اراده .؟
France2: "You have stated that Israel must be wiped off the map. Is wiping Israel off the map your wish or your will?"

چرا بايد نگران شد؟
Ahmadinejad: "Why is there any concern here?"

شما چنين اظهاراتي داشته ايد
F2: "You did say that, didnt you."

مگر شوروي محو نشد؟ شوروي كجاست آيا محونشد؟ ما براي فلسطين يك راه حل انساني داريم ، برگزاري يك رفراندوم براي پايان دادن به 60 سال جنگ و نتيجه آنهم قطعي است
Ahmadinejad: "Was not the USSR wiped off the map? Tell me, where is the USSR today? We have proposed a humane solution: lets have a referendum there, to end 60 years of conflict, which will undoubtedlty yield a final result."

داويد بوژاداس: براي شما نسل كشي يهوديان يك واقعيت تاريخي ميباشد يا خير؟
F2: "But is the Jewish Genocide a reality for you or not?"

احمدي نژاد:آنچه را كه من گفتم اين بود كه اگر نسل كشي واقعيت داشته باشد پس اتفاق افتاده است .چرا بايد فلسطينيها بايد بهاي آنرا بدهند؟
Ahmadinejad: "What I said was that if the Holocaust happened, then it happened. Why must the Palestinians pay for it?"

Link to interview's text:

When Javad Zarif, who officially represents Iran at the UN, rejected claims that Ahmadinejad does not deny the existence of the Holocaust, Charlie Rose said "yes he did", to which Zarif said "the US always seeks to create a crisis".

The same thing can be said about the nuke allegation. There is no proof that Iran plans on building nuke weapons. The media just keeps repeating the accusation, because the news sells well, and it works well with the US administration. Who wants to keep hearing about Anna Nicole Smith's lame court case or a lost boyscout in the woods, when there can be a "threat" to fill up the air time of major news networks? Sad but true.--Zereshk 21:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

And it has been well documented that those extremist Muslims such as Ahmadinejad and various imams say one thing to western media and another to their own people. I could cite other's reasearch on the subject if you really want something to back up that claim. Also, Should we remove the U.S. invasion of Iraq from the Iraq article because "Bahgdad Bob" said the US made it up? Ryratt 23:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Ahmadinejad repeatedly uses the word "Zionists" to make clear what he means. Think about it: if Iran wanted to destroy Israel, the 20% Arab population of Israel would also be destroyed in the destruction, which goes against Iran's stated goal of supporting the Arabs. And if Iran wanted to "nuke Israel", it would also have to kill off the Palestinians along with it, because of being right next to each other. (the nuclear fallout would probably kill the nearby Hizbollah and the millions of refugees in Jordan as well). Not to mention that in return, Iran would be nuked off the face of the earth itself as well. Do you really think Iran would "Nuke" Islam's second most holy site? These conclusions are so simple to make, and yet nobody cares to think about them. It's all childish media trash; illogical, dumb and sensational.--Zereshk 00:04, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

The Persian Language?

Persian is not a language. The people of Iran are Persians, but they speak Farsi. HikageMaru 04:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)HikageMaru

Actually, it is. I don't know where you got that idea from, but "Persian" is the English word for the language, while "Farsi" is the native word. It is sort of like "Italian" versus "Italiano." In general, colleges refer to the program for that language as "Persian" and not Farsi. The Behnam 10:44, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Behnam is correct. Jokerst44 16:24, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

The city of Beverly Hills, California passed new a law to print ballots in Farsi. I'm no expert on this by any means, but the majoity of the news articles related to this story refered to the language as Farsi:
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/24/america/NA-GEN-US-Farsi-Ballots.php
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=ballots+farsi&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGki10FwxGBgoApq9XNyoA?p=ballots+persian&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&x=wrt
Ryratt 19:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

It's a common mistake that all of the media are commiting. It's like "German" vs. "Deutsch". The Academy of Persian Language and Literature, which is the highest body in matters of Persian language and literature, calls it "Persian" when conversing in English, as well.--Zereshk 21:31, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

It is, of course, Persian. Calling it Farsi when speaking English is a very new phenomenon, and most if not all scholars of Persian studies discourage it as far as I know. Shervink 22:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)shervink

Sectional edit

I edited the Sassanid section. It was shortened, but improved, I think. Here is what I did:

• I took out the names of all the lands conquered by the Sassanids, because the map there actually shows the extent of the empire and the lands that formed the empire.
• I deleted the daily details of how the Arabs defeated the Sassanid army. I think that detail is not needed on the main page.
• Instead, I inserted a paragraph of some of the cultural accomplishments of the Sassanids during that era. I think a bit more could be added there.--Zereshk 17:04, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Did the same for "From the fall of the Sassanian Dynasty to the Mongol invasion" section.--Zereshk 16:58, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Mamoud Ahmadinejad

I looked up Iran to find the spelling for Ahmadinejad and was curious to find that his name is not mentioned anywhere in the article. I have found several other countries' listings that have their current leader mentioned somewhere. Should not this one?

Cogknight 14:54, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Just another sign that this article is too much a 'history of Iran' article. The Behnam 23:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Iranian etiquette and Taarof merger (RfC)

Hi, can people make comments about whether it is advisable to delete almost entirely the Iranian etiquette article. Some people (mostly one) keep arguing that we should delete the article (also they talk about "merger") but I think the article makes sense completely as it is, with minor improvements needed may be. Please comment on the Taarof talk page. Thanks.69.116.234.208 19:53, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Islamic Revolution and Iran-Iraq War

why is there no mention of the mass executions that took place in the months of 1988. (thousands of people were killed without any trails)

This is the country's general article. While the Revolution and War affected the entire nation, the 1988 executions generally targeted only MKO, Tudeh, and similar leftist groups. We do have an article for this event if you interested, see 1988 executions of Iranian prisoners. Thank you for your concern and feel free to ask more questions. The Behnam 23:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Propaganda

This article is yet another of the many instances I've seen of nationalist Iranian propagandizing on the Internet. It's very easy to tell for several reasons. The grammar and the syntax of the history text is at times awkward, as some have pointed out. Second, there are phrases of absolute praise for Iran that are completely out of place in an encylopedic, informative article. Furthermore, there are glaring omissions and imbalances conceived to prop Iran up. The Greco-Persian wars are conveniently brushed away. Alexander The Great's destruction of the Empire is summed up in one or two lines. There are no mentions of any negative aspects whatsoever of Iranian culture or its polity. No slavery, no massacres, no conquests. I could go on, but a simple glance at the text by anyone who is objective knows a minimal amount about the subject will understand it. The visual design of the article is great, but the text of the history section is clearly part of a grassroots Iranian campaign to prop up Ancient Persia. I know about this because I've seen it elsewhere, in history forums I frequent. I think the article should be more balanced and include negative aspects of ancient Persia. The tone in general must also be changed, because it reads like a government pamphlet or a grade school textbook designed to inspire pride in a nation. Suffice it to say that is completely out of place in Misplaced Pages.

Patrizio 15:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)SunShock

I know that there is whitewashing. Feel free to edit, or at least point out specific problems for us to address here. Perhaps such propaganda is what we can trim from the history section? The Behnam 17:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

We should be careful about about using provocative terms like "propaganda" while addressing other editors' contributions. If there are any specific issues, bring them up in a constructive way, and they will be addressed. --Mardavich 17:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes. I've left a message on his talk page asking him to come back and bring up specifics. I do remember seeing 'peacock terms' reading the article in the past so I'll probably take another look myself. The Behnam 17:30, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Patrizio Please AVOID touching the article as it seems you know nothing about Iran. Ancient Iran (Persian Empire, Parthia and Sassanid Empire) never practiced slavery. And about Alexander what should we say? A paragraph? This is not the main article. Yes, I agree we can improve a lot and make the article more NPOV but not by adding false statements such as slavery in Persian Empire. --Arad 22:27, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

We actually had some text about the Greco-Persian wars and about Alexander some time ago. Both were deleted because some users thought the history section was (is) too long, and that the Greco-Persioan wars was a "reaction to the movie 300". Alexander's attack was more of an incursion that only lasted a few years, compared to the 1000 year empires of Persia that came before and after him. He practically didnt have any lasting impact on Iran, save maybe for in literature. As for slavery, I agree, there isnt a shred of evidence (except for the movie 300) that proves that ancient Persia practiced any slavery. In fact, unlike Egypt and Greece, all the craftsmen and builders of cities like Persepolis were paid, and women enjoyed more freedom than their Greek counterparts. I dont call this "nationalism", but sourced fact.--Zereshk 23:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Many of the comments I have seen in this Talk page prove my point. There is lots of campaigning, lots of nationalism, even abject anti-semitism. I can prove easily that this article is biased to the point where it loses almost all educational value. First and foremost, it is a known fact that almost the entire Persian Army was composed of slaves - like every militar force of its day. It is naive and ignorant to pretend for the Persian Empire to be a unique exception to the Ancient world. It was not. Second, as I said before, this Iranian/Persian nationalist campaign has been going on for years. I've encountered it before. Among history aficionados it is well known that Iranians have a deep distrust of Greeks and frequently display willingness to downplay the Greek victories over Persia. This article is a clear example. The Iranian user Zereshk says Aléxandros' campaign was a mere "incursion". In fact, the Persian Empire was completely eliminated. Its King was killed by his own guards. His satraps were coopted. Both capitals were razed. For entire centuries the region was under the yoke of the Seleucid Greeks. Going further back in time, the articles sums up the most important event of Ancient Persia's history, its two invasions of Greece, in a line or two. That is bias by omission. The entire Persian Army was routed -permanently- from Europe by a league of city-states. It might be sad to some Iranians, but it is the historical truth. The fact that the article bothers to point out one meek Persian victory in the middle of those two campaigns is clear evidence of an effort to minimize foreign actions and maximize Iranian/Persian victories and successes. A third example of the bias in the article is in the pictures themselves. I spotted at least two that have been through Photoshop: one to enhance the brilliance of the water in a fountain, the other in a botched job to make the hills greener and the sky bluer. It's right there for everyone to see. I know they were Photoshoped for two reasons: I myself saw the previous versions in other versions of this article some time ago, and one of them even has "edit" as part of its filename. Fourth fact that supports my assertion: the profiles of those who debate me. A simple glance clearly proves my point that these are people bent on all things Iran, in a nationalist tone. Biased authors, biased article. Fifth, other contributors have signalled the same concerns I have. Sixth, a variety of historically dubious assertions that casually all point to a notion of Iranian supremacy, such as:

If you have a particular objection, please be specific. We also have seen a lot of Iranophobic racists that desperately wish to portray Iran and Iranians as savages and uncivilized, labeling them anti-semitic.--Zereshk 12:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

As I pointed out, my objections are both to the general tone of the history article and to many specific assertions I criticized. By the way, I noticed certain sensibility about my saying there was anti-semitism in this Talk page. It's easy to prove: just look up, near the top of this very page: "Second, because most international medias, including the good old BBC, are controled by you know who :-), so it does not need to be a true and fair representation of REALITY, necessarily, when it comes to Iran.". It's not just that comment in particular, but the general intervention. Skepticism and denial of any possible claim, even the most glaring ones like the Ahmadinejad quote on the one hand. Complete insistence on posting and keeping positive considerations about Iran on the other.Patrizio 02:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I see. So "complete insistence on posting and keeping positive considerations about Iran" is considered anti-semtic by you. That's good to know.--Zereshk 12:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

• If you wish to expand the history section, go for it. We support you. However, please provide documentation saying "it is a known fact that almost the entire Persian Army was composed of slaves".--Zereshk 11:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually this does come from a source. Contemporary Greek sources I believe. I saw it mentioned over at the 300 article. I'll look it up and see if we can bring it here for balance. The Behnam 10:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

• Youre wrong about "Iranians have a deep distrust of Greeks". Says who? You? I say the opposite: Alexander is revered in post-Islamic conquest Persian literature, is even considered as a candidate as being a saint, Greece has friendly ties with Iran and frequently collaborate on religious and archeological projects, and people in IRan even still name their kids "Iskandar" (Alexander).--Zereshk 09:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I know what I'm talking about. I've seen this before and every intervention by Iranian nationalists further proves my point. By the way, I noticed you did not dispute my criticism of how the Greco-Persian wars and the Macedonian invasion are grossly ignored.Patrizio 13:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Are you surprised that I agree with some of your statements? Are you shocked?--Zereshk 18:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Not at all. I'm glad. I was trying to make a point.Patrizio 02:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

So was I :)--Zereshk 12:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

For the record I signed an alliance with my swiss-greek friend when I was 10. It was a formal alliance between Perisans and Greeks, and also a pact of non-agression. I know this document will come to hunt me one day (lol) SSZ 10:09, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

• Also, there's nothing wrong with having photoshop pictures. The United States article uses 6 pictures that have been doctored. 5 are Photoshop.--Zereshk 09:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I concur again! SSZ 10:09, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I do not. It's irrelevant what's in another article. These photos were clearly and irrefutably altered to embellish the way people look at Iran. They were uploaded previously in their unedited form and they were modified to advance a political point, it's so obvious I can't believe you're even debating that. If Iran is so beautiful -which it is- then it doesn't need Photoshop.Patrizio 13:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

It is relevant. Practice what you preach. First change all the pictures on the United States and all other articles, so as not to "advance a political point", then come here and lecture everybody. One rule for all.--Zereshk 18:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

"Dozens of pre-historic sites across the Iranian plateau point to the existence of ancient cultures and urban settlements, centuries before the earliest civilizations arose in nearby Mesopotamia." Ridiculous. No historian would ever agree to that. You can get picky with findings of pre-historical sites in any place in the world, even with several-thousands-years-old mummies in the Andes. It proves nothing. The ancient civilizations rose in Mesopotamia, the Indu Valley and China.

"The Persian Empire represented the world's first global superpower, and was based on a model of tolerance and respect for other cultures and religions.". This assertion has no place in an encyclopedia. Furthermore, the sources are of poor quality. Don't be fooled by the fact there are footnotes.

Sorry. Rules say those stay. That fact is undisputed. And I just added 3 more sources to corroborate.--Zereshk 09:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh really? Where do the rules say you can assert something as unprovable as "based on a model of tolerance and respect for other cultures and religions". Those words could not possibly apply to any political entity of the Ancient world, including Persia (you might want to ask the Israelites to confirm that). How can you even pretend to say that "fact" is undisputed? It is one thing to say Persia was more tolerant than other empires, or that the moderation and openness it displayed were unusual for its time. But the sentence, as it is, is propaganda. Your sources do seem better, though I'm wondering how you came up with three books that support a single, overarching statement, just overnight.Patrizio 13:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh certainly. I'd love to ask the Israelites how their asses being freed by Cyrus does not count as respect for other cultures. He wasnt Jewish, and he didnt have to free anyone. I'd like to ask how the Cyrus Cylinder does not count as the "first human rights declaration" (according to the UN officials). I'd like to ask Thomas Jefferson how seeking inspiration from the Cyropaedia does not count as looking up to a model of tolerance, when he in fact used it to set the ideological framework of his new state:

"America's own founders such as Thomas Jefferson were influenced by Cyrus the Great in the field of Human Rights". Ted Koppel, abc's Nightline, Aug 24, 2005.

Please, spare us the pointless enmity, and instead help us improve the article.--Zereshk 18:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

"Subsequently, an Athenian assault on a major Persian province culminated in the sacking and burning of the city of Sardis. It is this destructive event that started what is known as the Greco-Persian Wars, which included encounters such as the Battle of Thermopylae. In 494 BCE the Persians defeated the Greeks at the battle of Lade, and the coast of Anatolia was once again peaceful.". That passage speaks for itself, especially in reference to the things I said before. That's very poor, biased and incomplete history-telling. Anyone with an objective mind knows that.

"the Parthian (250 BCE-226 CE) and Sassanian (226-650 CE) dynasties. The latter was able to defeat the Roman empire at the height of its power on several occasions.". Ridiculous. The article leads the reader -with more sentences like those in the Parthian section- to believe the Romans were weaker than the Parthians. In fact, Trajan smashed the Parthians and conquered their very core in Mesopotamia - not to mention many other facts that prove Rome was a vastly superior superpower than Parthia.

"Parthians were one of the most persistent enemies of Rome, having in 53BCE inflicted upon Crassus a disastrous defeat at Carrhae." From Aristotle to Zoroaster: An a to Z Companion to the Classical World. Arthur Cotterell. p.272--Zereshk 09:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Same thing as with the Greco-Persian wars. You incur in a phallacy, you seek to prove that the Roman and Parthian empires were comparable based on a single battle. In fact, as I said before, there was no parity between them. As I also said before, the Parthians were conquered to their very core by the greatest of the Roman Emperors, Trajan.Patrizio 13:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Well I intentionally gave you a direct quote stating "Parthians were one of the most persistent enemies of Rome". The statement clearly does not refer to just one battle. Therefore you are wrong.--Zereshk 18:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it's still a fallacy. The Gauls and the Carthaginians were irrefutably "persistent enemies of Rome". In fact they were a much more dangerous and continous enemy than the Parthians. Yet that does not in any way mean they were comparable powers to the Romans. Also, as I said before, it seems biased to point out a single Parthian victory while ignoring the many defeats they suffered, including Trajan's campaign. There's a huge Pillar in Rome, standing even today, celebrating Trajan's victories overseas.

I'll bring you another direct quote then, and I will not hear any more claims of "fallacy" from you. Your opinions are respected though.--Zereshk 12:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

"Inheriting a heritage from thousands of years of prodigious civilization, and being at the "crossroads of the major cultural highways" ". That sentence speaks for itself. More unnecessary additions to enflourish Iran/Persia.

It's sourced.--Zereshk 09:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

"Prodigious civilization" is not a quote, and therefore it is not sourced. What is sourced is "crossroads of the major cultural highways". My point stands. If the Persians were a "prodigious civilization", then we should add those qualifications to many other articles, like the one on the Tang Dynasty for example... Patrizio 13:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Fine then. Change the wording.--Zereshk 18:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

"Others followed in a somewhat tortuous pattern, but Persia was once again the master of its own destiny". Same thing. Ridiculous.

That's a fact. The Samanids even declard themselves successors to the Sassanids.--Zereshk 09:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Again, the problem is with the wording. I said before that this was propaganda. Propaganda involves a combination of things: hyperbole, unverifiable assertions, lies, distortions of truth, cheerypicking of facts, etc. In this case, the problem is with the language. The phrase "master of its own destiny" is out of place, it just doesn't fit with the general tone of Misplaced Pages in any of its best history articles. Nowhere have I read about the Americans being "masters of their own destiny" after their Revolution or the Africans being that after decolonization. That phrase just does not belong there.Patrizio 13:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Fine. We can change the wording there too.--Zereshk 18:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

There was some grave whitewashing about the Islamic Revolution. Someone claimed above that the only people who were killed were members of organizations opposed to the new regime. That is outrageous and false. There are many documented cases of people as young as nine and as old as ninety years old being executed in the early months and years of the Islamic regime.

Please provide.--Zereshk 09:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it's a pity that it is necessary to dissect an article like this, but the evidence is compelling. I rest my case. Patrizio 00:59, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

You're not going to get very far in Misplaced Pages with that kind of attitude. FYI you have presented no evidence, just your own opinions. See WP:OR, WP:CIVIL, and WP:SOAP. Khorshid 04:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

It is worth noting that many of his complaints are examples of POV projections in the article. We should work those out. The Behnam 10:37, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

You mean pointing out the lies and distortions in articles? I thought that was the purpose of Misplaced Pages, improving knowledge through cooperation, it's the whole point of it being the free, open encyclopedia. I thank The Behnam for supporting some of my claims.Patrizio 13:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The purpose is to improve indeed. Not to storm into somewhere accusing everyone of nationalism and "anti-semitism" (wtf??) when the article is already under reconstruction. Go to Archive 7 of the talk page. I was the one who initiated the drive to get rid of the amateur wording of the article. Your tone however is not one to help improve things around here. In a true improvement effort, editors never use ad hominems. NEVER.--Zereshk 18:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Although I was critical of people, I never named names. I was careful to point out a general, visible tendency within the article. My point was that it was not just that there were errors or disagreements I had with the article. They were rather connected, threaded into a narrative, which I described with the term "propaganda".Patrizio 02:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you're right about the Islamic Revolution part (white washing). Please provide sources, and we gladly accept. But the part that you say the whole Persian army was slaves is stupid. Read a book or two. Just go and watch History Channel: Engineering and Empire The Persians if you don't like reading. --Arad 03:53, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

History of Iran

I read the history of Iran section in the main article a few days ago and found it well written and balanced in its views. I learned a lot of FACTS. I also removed a few sentences recently added (apparently) at a place where it was like responding to the movie "300" instead of simply narrating the story of Iran. All in all, a good article and I enjoy watching the pictures also. The more I look at this article, the more I see how close Americans and Iranians are.69.116.234.208 03:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Poetry

I don't think we actually need to quote lines of poetry in this article. How about we just mention who the important guys are and leave it at that? It seems a waste of space and I generally don't see if much elsewhere. Now don't find one article, like Rock of Ages, and say that because of it having lyrics, it is OK to have poetry. I think that the article will be improved and shortened by removing the poetry regardless of what the other articles are doing. Anyway, how exactly do we decide from all of the poetry in the first place? Best just avoid the issue by getting rid of it. Maybe we can link them under 'further reading' to books of poetry translated into English. The Behnam 10:30, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

It's a reflection of the Iranian characteristic. If you ask an Iranian one thing theyre proud about today, most if not all would probably mention their literature and poetry (i.e. culture). Put simply, poetry is not such a big part of the life of an American, or say, a German, as it is for an Iranian. And that's what we're trying to reflect here. As for the selection criteria, the verses selected (except for that Rumi one) all have one thing in common: they are about "Iran", whioch is the topic of the article. It's very difficult to find such verses. And as for the Sa'di verse, it is probably the most popular verse of Persian poetry. Though there are probably other popular verses too.--Zereshk 11:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Well if you insist upon having actual lines in the article, perhaps we could at least limit it to one? Then the problem is which one. Should we add more? The section needs trimming in any case. The Behnam 03:34, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I do agree with reducing. How about ditching the Rumi lines? I dont see how any large significance those particular lines carry.--Zereshk 12:29, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Keep the qoutes, It reflects the Iranian Psyche Cyrus111

Iranian Revolution

Some problems with the section and the main article Iranian Revolution. I don't know who has been editing these two, but whoever it is thinks that the Revolution revolved entirely around Khomeini! That is very wrong. The Communists and the nationalists were the ones with the largest level of support, with Khomeini only being popular among rural people and some university students. He wasn't even a major player until after Shariati was murdered in 1977. If Shariati had still been alive, he would have been the de facto leader of the revolution. Please, someone who has time and is expert on these matters fix this. I can try to get to it but I don't have time right now. Khorshid 00:26, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

User:Sa.vakilian might know more about this matter. I'll relay the matter to him. The Behnam 00:28, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

This idea that "Communists and the nationalists were the ones with the largest level of support" isn't common among the western scholars. These are the references which have supported this viewpoint and some criticism:

• The Last Great Revolution Turmoil and Transformation in Iran by Robin Wright.
• Islamic Revolution by Bernard Lewis
• Criticism of the former link: Islamic Revolution: An Exchange by Abbas Milani, Tomis Kapitan, Reply by Bernard Lewis
• What Are the Iranians Dreaming About? by Michel Foucault
• Criticism of the former link: The Seductions of Islamism, Revisiting Foucault and the Iranian Revolution by Janet Afary and Kevin B. Anderson
• The Religious Background of the 1979 Revolution in Iran

Also you can refer to these books:Iranian Revolution#Bibliography

However I propose to ask User:Leroy65X. He's knowledgeable American and has a lot of academic references.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 03:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Science section

Manu kian maheri 13:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)I think the scince section is very limited in comparison to9 its importance in Iran. PLEASE HELP EXPAND IT.Manu_kian_maheri

History revision update

Here is what I did today in the changes I made to the History section:

• I rewrote almost half of the Parthian section.
• I think that the new text I put in is much more informative than the previous text we had. It is less pompous, and yet conveys more of the history of the Parthians.
• I sourced the important parts, so that some editors wont accuse us of "nationalism" and "anti-semitism" (!) again.
• I switched 2 pictures: One was the Parthian coin picture, because there were two pictures related to Phraates. If anything, the most important Parthian king was Mehrdad (Mithradates), not Farhad. The other pic I replaced was the Sassanid relief. It doesnt show much detail, and gives a war like imagery to the Sassanids, not an accurate depiction. The Shapur II bust on the other hand focuses on artistic prowess and grandeur.--Zereshk 18:02, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
• I replaced the shah Ismail I picture in the Shi'a Islam... section because it made the section more appealing.Manu kian maheri 12:44, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Iran's Picture

Dear Editors,

I will be appreciated if you would make a link to my Iran's pictures here. The gallery is vastly interested by people around the world and seems to be suitable for here. Link: http://www.pbase.com/k_amj/throughout_iran

Also I have gallery about ancien Iran reminders: http://www.pbase.com/k_amj/persia

Best Regards, Ali Majdfar 217.66.214.191 08:31, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Ali,

Thanks for the offer. I am not sure to understand if you want to make your images available on Misplaced Pages or you just want to create a link to your website. If you want to make your pics available on Misplaced Pages, you will need to do either 2 things:

1. Upload them yourself one by one, and tag them correctly with tags such as "I have created this file and make it available to Misplaced Pages for free use and unrestricted distribution", if applicable (You can choose this option from the menu when you upload them). WITHOUT a tag, they will be DELETED within a short period of time as per Misplaced Pages's policy and as I experienced it myself, in my early experience with Misplaced Pages.

2. Place a note ON YOUR OWN website with the mention that you have copyrights of all the pictures and they can be uploaded on Misplaced Pages for free and for unrestricted usage and distribution.SSZ 11:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

If you give your permission, we can upload the pictures here and use them. That'd be a great help. I don't think it's necessary to put a note on his website? as long as he can confirm he is the copyright owner and gives us his permission in whatever way --Rayis 16:28, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Tourism section added

About time there was a tourism section added, the Islamic Repuplic have been promoting it for years. Go ahead "fine adjust it" if you so wish or have anything to add. Other than that Ill like to say Good Work to all. Keep it up.Cyrus111

I quit

Unless the improvement drive for this article does not become organised, all efforts to make the article more professional are useless.

Either there must be some sort of agreement between the editors about what course of action to take, or the article will always remain sloppy and amateurish.

Here are some problems:

1. People, it's "SASSANID", not "SASSANIAN". Check the English dictionary.Cyrus111 keeps reverting back to the latter.
2. I get blocked for trying to enforce the poll that we have on images. Then on the other hand, other users just drop by and change pictures left and right. And nobody seems to care. This is stupid.
3. Some users just cant be unbiased. Aghajoon, like it or not, Iranian culture was influenced by Hellenism at some point in time. Why is that a problem for some? Why do some editors keep trying to inject a "yeah but we kicked Greek/Roman asses too" into the article? That's called Oghdeh. And it reduces the article into a high school report.
4. The tourist section reads like an advertisement from traveltoiran.com. I suggest we also then give information there about ticket prices to Iran. (ei khoda...)

There must be some sort of strict policing of any changes on this article with some admins involved to semi-protect the article.

If you want me to help as the oldest user involved in this article (since 2004) who is responsible for creating over 50% (if not more) of all Iranian articles, then please first reach an agreement amongst yourselves. Do you want to improve this article? Or does each person want to do his own thing?

I cant help edit this article, and then have people do their own thing. SSZ does his own thing, Cyrus 111 does his own thing, and same for everybody else. And nobody discusses anything about any actual text in the article.

I can only help when I know my time is not wasted.

Good luck.--Zereshk 00:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

On the subject of English dictionaries, it is "Azerbaijan" and "Azeri," not "Azarbaijan" and "Azari." Anyway, I think the best way to go is to get rid of promotional and Iran-exaggerating POV projections and peacock wordings and return to the facts. I think it is a shame that many of the editors here panned Sunshock's feedback without much consideration, as the criticism addressed many of the article's flaws. And it is also disappointing that some people are including things specifically to send 'a message' to the world about Iran, as this is a gross violation of the policy of neutrality. Furthermore, it is shame that you are quitting Zereshk, as you have done a lot of good work. The Behnam 01:26, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Please, stop your non-sense Behman. NOBODY is quiting here. Guys I have seen this website and it is fun because it allows to view a summary of the contributions for each Wikipedians with the details. SSZ

Are you really User:SSZ? The above edit, signed SSZ , is actually from 69.116.234.208 (talk · contribs). Are you really SSZ? If so can SSZ please verify this. Thanks. The Behnam 04:42, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

1. http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/meast/9809/15/iran.afghan.tensions.02/index.html?eref=sitesearch