| Revision as of 20:38, 17 January 2012 editAnthonyhcole (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers39,927 edits →Continuation: <redacted> Per Franamax's suggestion.← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 08:51, 13 June 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,311,942 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to User talk:Ludwigs2/Archive 20) (bot | ||
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| == Keep that chin up == | |||
| --] (]) 18:58, 8 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :No worries. If there's one thing I've learned about the human world it's that positive change frees up a lot of ugly energy: positive change always reduces tension in the long run, that kind of tension has a lot of mental energy invested in maintaining it, and that energy has got to go ''somewhere''. For some reason I don't really understand I seem to be a lightning rod for it. It sucks, but for the most part I don't mind. This NOTCENSORED battle has been raging for years now and everyone involved has mobilized a hell of a lot of mental resources towards waging it. If dumping on me helps them demob, so be it. | |||
| : a day off is good, though. I need to blow off the load people have dumped on me; there's only so much I can take before I lose control of it. --] 19:32, 8 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::Yeah. I thought the day off was a great idea. I've really benefited from the process overall. I'm more comfortable with my grasp of the issues. I've had a chance to exchange ideas and express new thoughts. I think I'll knock up a summary of my thinking at the moment and put it in the workshop when it reopens for business. --] (]) 20:12, 8 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == Please comment on ] == | |||
| Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— ] (]) 17:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == Please comment on ] == | |||
| Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the ] on ''']'''. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see ]. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from ].'' <!-- Template:FRS message -->— ] (]) 18:15, 15 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == Continuation == | |||
| Hi, I wanted to continue here (the arb case pages are already getting long enough!). First, you're right, I'm not in your shoes, and I do apologize if my comment came across sharper than intended. However, I do empathize! I feel the same way you do sometimes (and rightly so), that there are editors watching my edits in bad faith, ready to pounce if I make the slightest mistake (or even if I don't!). I'm not sure if you're following the "civility enforcement" case or not. But anyway. I smiled when you said, "If the project were savvy". It does feel sometimes like there's an overlord brain in charge of this, but no, it's an illusion. I see Misplaced Pages more like a flock of starlings that's fluttering this way and that. From a distance, it seems to have shape and coherence, but in reality it's just a bunch of individual birds flapping as fast as they can. ;) I also greatly agree with you that Misplaced Pages in awful place of edit. It is. Then again, Democracy is an awful form of government -- it's just better than all the others, heh. Ultimately, I agree with much of what you say, I think you know that. Mainly I disagree, sometimes, with ''how'' you are saying it. So, just as an exercise, could you try editing some articles? Even helping out in a cleanup category, or adding sources, these kinds of things would be good to get back to. It's helpful to the project, looks great on your contrib list, and is just plain good for one's mental health. There really are lots of places where you can edit, where no one else would give two hoots as to what you do. And trust me, it's kind of nice. Quiet, peaceful, no arguing. I can get into a kind of zen mode when ], and it helps me keep perspective on the rest of the chaos. Maybe just give it a try? Pick any topic of your choice, or heck, c'mon and help me with one of the articles I've created recently? Or review a GA, or ]? There are lots of places where your help would be much appreciated! And it doesn't mean you'd have to abandon the other discussions you're in. Just maybe, engage in them in moderation? Have a balance between arb discussion and article work, and I think everything can go much more smoothly. :) --]]] 06:29, 16 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :I like that starling analogy. --] (]) 07:57, 16 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::Elonka: Truth be told, I am sour on the project right now. I've gotten locked against my will into this cycle where I'll do a little quiet editing, try to be reasonable on the wrong article, find myself dragged through an administrative abattoir, take a wikibreak, come back to do a little quiet editing, try to be reasonable on the wrong article, find myself dragged through… trying to edit[REDACTED] is a huge and unpleasant waste of my time that I could better spend doing other things. The ''only'' reason I haven't left the project already is that I like the idea of it, and wish it could work the way it's supposed to work, because that would be really cool. But on the kind of articles I like to edit - politics, religion and spirituality, fringe science (mostly where it interacts with the first two) - I'm blocked out by a near-universal knee-jerk reactivity to anything I do. | |||
| ::I've currently set myself to making this a place that I can edit quietly and reasonably as a ''rule'' rather than as an ''exception.'' If I succeed I will happily go about editing just as you ask, as is my normal wont; if I fail then I don't want to be here anyway. That's what it comes down to for me. I mean, don't get me wrong: sooner or later Misplaced Pages is going to come around to my way of thinking, whether I'm here or not. I've seen this dynamic played out politically in too many contexts to anticipate any other outcome. I'm just trying to make it happen ''now'' for the purely selfish reason that I'm tired of putting up with endless crap over every simple, reasonable action I want to take. | |||
| ::I like your starlings analogy as well, but unfortunately I study politics academically; I know it's incorrect. The difference between humans and starlings is that starlings have their social behavior written into them immutably by nature; humans have an inbred drive to create abstract forms of social order. Misplaced Pages has thus far more-or-less abnegated its role of creating an overarching system of order, and so what's happened is that editors have created their own local order. Misplaced Pages is composed of bands and tribes of editors with all the standard tribal affective components: deep in-group loyalty, suspicion and hostility towards out-group members, ideological solipsism, territorialism, jingoism… If you keep in mind that it is typical among tribal groups to extirpate any threat to any member - if a tiger kills someone, hunters who never knew the victim will gather from all over the tribe to hunt it down - these arbcom cases will make a whole lot more sense to you. I remember the lashing you took when you tried to rein in ScienceApologist back when I first started editing here (I forget what page it was over, but I know I was involved somehow; my first ANI experience), so I know you know what I'm talking about. | |||
| :: I will keep your words in mind, and after I take another wikibreak (which I am most assuredly going to be doing soon) I'll see if I can do that. $20 says that - whatever I do whenever I return - I won't get more than a couple of weeks before someone drags me into ANI over some idiotic thing. Best you set aside the cash now. --] 16:53, 16 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::ScienceApologist. <redacted> Since meeting him I've had a nasty reaction to any editors with "science" in their name. --] (]) 17:27, 16 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::::<small>Struck personal attacks in above. ] (]) 18:05, 16 January 2012 (UTC)</small> | |||
| :::::: (e/c) Franamax beat me to it. Yeah Anthonyhcole, SA may be gone, but comments like that are still not cool. :/ --]]] 18:28, 16 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::: True. It was ill-considered on many levels. In fact, I'd have no problem with the comment being permanently erased (can't recall what that's called), though perhaps it should remain as a testimony to my occasional intemperance and poor judgement. --] (]) 06:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::I just want to say on the record that I don't have anything against SA personally - no denying that he was decently smart or that he thought he was doing the right thing, even if he did make life miserable for me and many other people - but his methods were appalling, and he was (unfortunately) lauded and pampered by teleological-minded editors who wanted the results he got and didn't care about the damage he did in the process. again, tribalism... --] 18:54, 16 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == Bighting == | |||
| Please don't bight. It's his little siren call to you. Please strap yourself to something, and turn the stereo up. --] (]) 16:27, 16 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == Wikibreak == | |||
| This process has become too stressful for me - I've become more frustrated and depressed by it than I can cope with healthily - so I'm on wikibreak. If someone would notify me of anything that requires my attention on the case pages that would be nice, because I won't be following them. Otherwise I'll check up on the results when I return. --] 04:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :If you feel the need to post something but don't feel like looking at the workshop page post it here and I will move it for you. Take care of yourself, no reason to compromise your health over a webpage ] <font color="black"><sup>]</sup></font> 04:39, 17 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::Thanks: if I decide I need to post a principle of FoF I can do that myself; I'm just not looking at the discussion any more. I'd like to know if an Arb or anyone else asks me a direct question so I can respond, but that will be the limit of my activity on the page from now on. --] 18:53, 17 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == May I? == | |||
| Do you mind if I use your page to apologise to ScienceApologist for my appalling behaviour above. I hope you'll forgive me, but reading it again, just now, I wonder if that's possible. I have never believed you are evil, I have no idea whether you can write, and you are clearly intelligent. Everything I said was defamation and I apologise, unreservedly. I have no excuse for that; and I swear that I'll never treat another editor, or human being for that matter, with that level of disrespect again. --] (]) 13:14, 17 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == Ludwigs2 == | |||
| And while I'm here. I am going to be very disappointed in this project if the arbitrators apply sanctions of any kind to Ludwigs2. I implore ''all'' arbitrators to truly familiarise yourselves with this mans character, and his mission here. I haven't stalked him so I can only go on my own experience with him. He's a person of insight and intelligence and high moral fiber. He's taking on the culture of offense here. This, of necessity, means he is constantly engaged in what I've been patronisingly calling bickering. I owe you an apology for that, Ludwigs. | |||
| I urge all arbitrators involving themselves in this case to follow Ludwigs2 through one of his controversies. --] (]) 13:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
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