Misplaced Pages

Talk:Franjo Tuđman: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from[REDACTED] with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 00:44, 22 September 2019 editLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,311,118 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:Franjo Tuđman/Archive 3) (bot← Previous edit Latest revision as of 08:10, 1 September 2024 edit undoCewbot (talk | contribs)Bots8,045,351 editsm Maintain {{WPBS}} and vital articles: The article is NOT listed in any vital article list page. 
(24 intermediate revisions by 18 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Talk header}} {{Talk header}}
{{Contentious topics/talk notice|b}}
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1=
{{Controversial-issues}}
⚫ {{Not a forum}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|blp=n|listas=Tudman, Franjo|
⚫ {{WikiProject Biography|politician-work-group=yes|politician-priority=mid|military-work-group=y|military-priority=low}}
⚫ {{WikiProject Croatia|importance=top}}
⚫ {{WikiProject Yugoslavia|importance=Mid}}
{{WikiProject Military history|class=Start {{WikiProject Military history|class=Start
<!-- B-Class 5-criteria checklist --> <!-- B-Class 5-criteria checklist -->
Line 9: Line 15:
|b5 <!-- Supporting materials --> =y |b5 <!-- Supporting materials --> =y
|Biography=yes|Balkan=yes|WWII=y|Post-Cold-War=y|Cold-War=y}} |Biography=yes|Balkan=yes|WWII=y|Post-Cold-War=y|Cold-War=y}}
⚫ {{WikiProject Croatia|class=C
<!-- B-Class 5-criteria checklist -->
|b1 <!-- Referencing and citations --> =n
|b2 <!-- Coverage and accuracy --> =n
|b3 <!-- Structure --> =y
|b4 <!-- Grammar and style --> =y
|b5 <!-- Supporting materials --> =y
|b6 <!--Accessibility --> =y
|importance=High}}
⚫ {{WikiProject Yugoslavia|class=C|importance=Mid}}
⚫ {{WikiProject Biography|living=n|class=C|politician-work-group=yes|listas=Tudman, Franjo|military-work-group=y|military-priority=Low}}
}} }}
⚫ {{Not a forum}}
{{Copied|from=Vrhovnik|to=Franjo Tuđman|diff=http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Franjo_Tuđman&action=historysubmit&diff=474314372&oldid=473533063}} {{Copied|from=Vrhovnik|to=Franjo Tuđman|diff=http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Franjo_Tuđman&action=historysubmit&diff=474314372&oldid=473533063}}
{{afd-merged-from|Vrhovnik|Vrhovnik|16 January 2012}} {{afd-merged-from|Vrhovnik|Vrhovnik|16 January 2012}}
{{Auto archiving notice|bot=Lowercase sigmabot III|age=60|dounreplied=yes}}
{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn {{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn
|target=Talk:Franjo Tuđman/Archive index |target=Talk:Franjo Tuđman/Archive index
Line 39: Line 32:
|archive = Talk:Franjo Tuđman/Archive %(counter)d |archive = Talk:Franjo Tuđman/Archive %(counter)d
}} }}
{{Annual readership}}

⚫ == Bosnian war section ==

The second para starts with "The Bosniak leadership initially showed willingness to remain in a rump Yugoslavia, (...)", this is just half true. In reality it was one of two currents within the SDA party, the one led by two prominent party leaders Muhamed Filipović and that other guy dissident from Switzerland, whose name I can't remember, which opted to negotiate with Milosevic and seek some way to stay within YUG. Filipovic and this other guy were in fact on the meeting with Milosevic in Belgrade, and this matter practically caused the party to break into two factions and at the first elections they were already completely separated into SDA and some other party, which was completely ignored by Bosniak electorate. Characters like Izetbegovic, Silajdzic, Ganic, Cengic, etc never even contemplated such variant, and they were key Bosniak leaders. Kristo exploiting rather simplistic view on this episode in history. ]] 20:13, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

== Antisemitism section needed ==

Clearly, Franjo Tudjman left behind not only highly antisemitic academic work, as already described in the article, but is on the record of making antisemitic remarks in public as well.


Such as his 1990 election speech where he makes antisemitic remarks about supposed rumors that he is of Jewish, or that his wife is either of Jewish or Serbian descent - namely that "had that been true he'd be rich and not a communist" and his happiness regarding "his wife not being either (Jew or Serb)".
⚫ == Lead section ==


The speech is easy to find on YouTube, has been since at least 2020, and it should be added, along with other instances of Tudjman's antisemitism into a new, separate, section. Clearly, from the rambling character of the speech it is obvious that such antisemitic ideas were integral to his personal way of thinking and not just a part of some political speech, perhaps prepared by someone else.
Why does the lead section contain a ICTY verdict, as if that is the thing he will be remebered in history?
Furthermore, it is written in some kind of broken English.
Why does it not instead emphasise the importance of this individual in Croatia's independence, and in leading his nation through war?


] (]) 16:15, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
== Semi-protected edit request on 21 September 2019 ==


:The article already describes this at length, if you have a specific suggestion to make please do, otherwise this sounds like a bit of ]. --] (]) 11:30, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected|Franjo Tuđman|answered=no}}
Put in ] please, for obvious reasons. ] (]) 16:31, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 08:10, 1 September 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Franjo Tuđman article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 2 months 
The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This topic contains controversial issues, some of which have reached a consensus for approach and neutrality, and some of which may be disputed. Before making any potentially controversial changes to the article, please carefully read the discussion-page dialogue to see if the issue has been raised before, and ensure that your edit meets all of Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Please also ensure you use an accurate and concise edit summary.
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Franjo Tuđman. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Franjo Tuđman at the Reference desk.
This article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject iconBiography: Military / Politics and Government
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Mid-importance).
WikiProject iconCroatia Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Croatia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Croatia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CroatiaWikipedia:WikiProject CroatiaTemplate:WikiProject CroatiaCroatia
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconYugoslavia Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconFranjo Tuđman is within the scope of WikiProject Yugoslavia, a collaborative effort to improve the Misplaced Pages coverage of articles related to Yugoslavia and its nations. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.YugoslaviaWikipedia:WikiProject YugoslaviaTemplate:WikiProject YugoslaviaYugoslavia
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconMilitary history: Biography / Balkan / European / World War II / Cold War / Post-Cold War Start‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history
StartThis article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.
B checklist
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
  1. Referencing and citation: criterion not met
  2. Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met
  3. Structure: criterion met
  4. Grammar and style: criterion met
  5. Supporting materials: criterion met
Associated task forces:
/ 
Taskforce icon
Military biography task force
Taskforce icon
Balkan military history task force (c. 500–present)
Taskforce icon
European military history task force
Taskforce icon
World War II task force
Taskforce icon
Cold War task force (c. 1945 – c. 1989)
Taskforce icon
Post-Cold War task force
Text and/or other creative content from Vrhovnik was copied or moved into Franjo Tuđman with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.
Vrhovnik was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 16 January 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Franjo Tuđman. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.


Bosnian war section

The second para starts with "The Bosniak leadership initially showed willingness to remain in a rump Yugoslavia, (...)", this is just half true. In reality it was one of two currents within the SDA party, the one led by two prominent party leaders Muhamed Filipović and that other guy dissident from Switzerland, whose name I can't remember, which opted to negotiate with Milosevic and seek some way to stay within YUG. Filipovic and this other guy were in fact on the meeting with Milosevic in Belgrade, and this matter practically caused the party to break into two factions and at the first elections they were already completely separated into SDA and some other party, which was completely ignored by Bosniak electorate. Characters like Izetbegovic, Silajdzic, Ganic, Cengic, etc never even contemplated such variant, and they were key Bosniak leaders. Kristo exploiting rather simplistic view on this episode in history. ౪ Santa ౪ 20:13, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Antisemitism section needed

Clearly, Franjo Tudjman left behind not only highly antisemitic academic work, as already described in the article, but is on the record of making antisemitic remarks in public as well.

Such as his 1990 election speech where he makes antisemitic remarks about supposed rumors that he is of Jewish, or that his wife is either of Jewish or Serbian descent - namely that "had that been true he'd be rich and not a communist" and his happiness regarding "his wife not being either (Jew or Serb)".

The speech is easy to find on YouTube, has been since at least 2020, and it should be added, along with other instances of Tudjman's antisemitism into a new, separate, section. Clearly, from the rambling character of the speech it is obvious that such antisemitic ideas were integral to his personal way of thinking and not just a part of some political speech, perhaps prepared by someone else.

109.175.104.3 (talk) 16:15, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

The article already describes this at length, if you have a specific suggestion to make please do, otherwise this sounds like a bit of WP:SOAPBOX. --Joy (talk) 11:30, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
Categories:
Talk:Franjo Tuđman: Difference between revisions Add topic