| Revision as of 17:19, 2 April 2023 editAcroterion (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators233,199 edits →Claim that Oath Keepers support "Sovereign Citizens" and "Posse Comitatus": cmt← Previous edit |
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{{Old AfD multi | date = 11 August 2015 | result = '''keep''' | page = Oath Keepers}} |
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{{Old AfD multi | date = 11 August 2015 | result = '''keep''' | page = Oath Keepers}} |
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== Elmer Stewart Rhodes == |
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== Allegiance to Trump? == |
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What is the basis on their allegiance to Trump? ] (]) 18:33, 18 August 2023 (UTC) |
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should there be a separate article on Elmer Stewart Rhodes, as an individual ] (]) 22:46, 6 October 2022 (UTC) |
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:Are you referring to the info-box? There isn't one, so I shall remove it. ] (]) 01:47, 10 September 2023 (UTC) |
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:Might get redirected (again), but stub at ] ---] <sub>(])</sub> 23:17, 29 November 2022 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 14 October 2023 == |
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== Declutter the lead == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Oath Keepers|answered=yes}} |
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{{edit semi-protected|Oath Keepers|answered=yes}} |
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The Oath Keepers definition is wrong.the following definition is correct. |
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-Oath Keepers |
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Pro government. Constitutional service organization. ] (]) 19:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:This is incoherent. ]] 19:33, 14 October 2023 (UTC) |
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== The Blaze == |
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The first paragraph could probably be better at summarizing. I propose: |
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In November 2022, Rhodes and another leader of the organization were convicted of seditious conspiracy for their actions around the January 6 United States Capitol attack. Along with three other leaders, they were also convicted of obstruction and other felonies. |
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Is changed to: |
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In November 2022, Rhodes and other leaders of the organization were convicted of various crimes, including seditious conspiracy, for their actions around the January 6 United States Capitol attack. |
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] (]) 21:52, 30 November 2022 (UTC) |
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:Disagree. Because seditious conspiracy is an extremely serious offense and the text should be clear on which persons were convicted. Right-wing extremists get convicted of violent crimes is a bit like dog bites man. It happens every day. ] (]) 12:40, 1 December 2022 (UTC) |
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== Rhodes == |
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I'm not sure how reliable the Blaze is, and I'm hoping that more reliable sources will report on this claim to see if it's true or false. Anyway, the Blaze is claiming that video from January 6 proves that one of the witnesses who testified in the Oath Keepers trial lied under oath. The video has been made public, so it should not be hard for other sources to investigate the claim by the Blaze. |
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The first use of his name the article is at: Prominent members > Elmer Stewart Rhodes and links to this article, please pipe to ] also please link the same in the info box, which leaves the redirect alone for it own uses as prescribed. thanks ] (]) 04:10, 1 December 2022 (UTC) |
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https://www.theblaze.com/news/just-released-jan-6-videos-show-capitol-police-officer-lied-in-oath-keepers-trial-blaze-media-investigative-journalist-says |
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== Claim that Oath Keepers support "Sovereign Citizens" and "Posse Comitatus" == |
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https://twitter.com/theblaze/status/1746974003317579834 |
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{{u|Acroterion}} Instead of just reverting without justification, please provide a single quote from the sources that actually states this, or the notion that they think sheriffs are the highest authorities of the land. I read through the entirety of the sources and never do they specifically state that the Oath Keepers' leadership or most of their members support these views. Do they not obsess over Donald Trump, someone who certainly isn't a sheriff, and attacked the capital in support of him? I'm confused where that even comes from the sources. ] 15:57, 2 April 2023 (UTC) |
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] (]) 21:37, 17 January 2024 (UTC) |
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:Prior discussion at ]. I'm also not sure where you're getting anything about "most of their members". ] (] / ]) 16:16, 2 April 2023 (UTC) |
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:{{tq|Your direct support ensures that the stores that matter most, those buried by Big Tech and the mainstream media narratives, will be brought to light.}} Yeah, no way. ] (]) 21:43, 17 January 2024 (UTC) |
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::It's an article about the Oath Keepers, this claim is relating to the Oath Keeper leadership, and there is nothing in the sources that ever claims the Oath Keeper leadership supports any of this. My point is that there is no source stating that the majority of Oath Keepers support this either, so if neither the leadership nor a majority of Oath Keepers believes this then why is it in the lead? ] 16:23, 2 April 2023 (UTC) |
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:] is useful for checking the reliability of sources. In this case it says "Blaze Media (including TheBlaze) is considered generally unreliable for facts." ] (]) 07:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC) |
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::Additionally if you look through the past discussion, as I have repeatedly stated none of the sources ever specifically connect the Oath Keepers to the claims that are in the lead of this article, the sources just mention the Oath Keepers in one part of their article and then mention some other people who support Sovereign Citizens/Posse Comitatus in a different part of the article, never claiming they are Oath keepers. ] 16:25, 2 April 2023 (UTC) |
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:::If you read through the sources, the most any of them say relating to this claim is that "one Oath Keeper" has views that "echo those of the Posse Comitatus," never claiming he is leadership or that even a substantial portion of the group agrees with this, while another source states that again "one member" of a different group that is "sovereign citizens" went to a speech given by an Oath Keeper. This does not support the claim expressed in the lead of this Misplaced Pages article, and it completely violates WP:SUMMARY and WP:DUE because "sovereign citizen" and "posse comitatus" isn't even mentioned anywhere in the entire body of this article, just the one sentence in the lead. ] 16:36, 2 April 2023 (UTC) |
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::::The first and third references specifically state what you say they don't. We don't accept self-referencing from within an organization's ranks, and in fact we discourage it. The other two sources are in my view over-citing, but they generally support the "constitutional sheriff" ideology, which is a core belief of the organization. '''<span style="font-family: Arial;">] <small>]</small></span>''' 17:19, 2 April 2023 (UTC) |
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The Oath Keepers definition is wrong.the following definition is correct.
-Oath Keepers
I'm not sure how reliable the Blaze is, and I'm hoping that more reliable sources will report on this claim to see if it's true or false. Anyway, the Blaze is claiming that video from January 6 proves that one of the witnesses who testified in the Oath Keepers trial lied under oath. The video has been made public, so it should not be hard for other sources to investigate the claim by the Blaze.
