Talk:HD DVD: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 04:58, 6 January 2006 edit71.109.0.182 (talk) →HD DVD for the Xbox?← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 12:42, 5 October 2024 edit undoCewbot (talk \| contribs)Bots8,032,877 editsm Maintain {{WPBS}}: The article is NOT listed in any vital article list page.Tag: Talk banner shell conversion
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	This article demeans Blu-Ray.
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	It's not neutral. Give details not comparisions!
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	From my understanding of HD-DVD it is basically a DVD that uses a blue laser (and consequently smaller and tighter track) and is really just an upgrade of the DVD specs.
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			== Obsolete is not the right word ==
	I thought HD DVD was a disc that used the normal red laser, but used compression algorithms to get the higher desnity. If it uses a blue laser, then why was it even created, it would mean that a new player would have to be bought anyway.

			I can see in the recent edits of the HD-DVD article, that some users (including myself) don't agree with the "obsolete" word in the beginning of the article. To the people who agree with the word obsolete, please explain your reasons why the word should be on the HD-DVD article.
	: You're thinking of HD-DVD-9, which was proposed by Warner Bros. and uses a red laser. -]

			I can buy an HD-DVD player or HD-DVD discs, so '''Why is Obsolete?''' the format still exists so there is no reason to put that. The format was abandoned, but it is not obsolete yet. In the meantime I removed the obsolete and leave as is.--] (]) 01:31, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
	==Neutral?==
	Are we being neutral on the competition subject? The ] page is much deeper and contains more information than this one. Perhaps a comparison page would help people decide more fairly?] 02:33, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
	:I'm not seeing the neutrality here either. There's also some apparent vandalism/fanboyism going on in the ] with regard to the history of that format. I'd also like to see some neutrality in these articles, or at least, factual accounts with sources... ] 05:42, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
	::I tend to feel the same way. I was editing the ] page as it was simple a redirect to ] while I think it should be neutrally referred to the "technology." within 24 hours, someone would just change it back to a redirect stating that: 1. Blue Ray = Blu-ray and 2. Anyone who are looking for ] is looking for ].
	I'm sure more information could be here. This is too small.--] 16:45, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

			:This is because a ] was reached on the subject (see the most recent archive). However, I feel this needs re-evaluating, and would support a fresh discussion on it. ] (]) 02:08, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
	== Prejudice Wording ==

			::I disagree with the discussion's outcome. There are connotations of the term "obsolete" that accurately describe the HD DVD format, but there also are connotations that don't. The wording in question can be interpreted to mean that the format has been superseded by something newer and technologically superior, when we really are trying to state that it's been discontinued. So why not simply refer to it as "discontinued" instead?
	It would be most proper to allow criticism from within the reader rather than using suggestive wording. The details are relative to the topic. But to use a word like "substantially" suggests that HD DVD is at a great disadvantage as far as the required size for the new video market. Storage size does not suggest a direct advantage or disadvantage especially since it's not defined which market that scenario may exist in. Negative wording motivates the reader to look with a cynical eye rather than a neutral eye.

			::Or we could just leave the lead <span class="plainlinks"></span> (without any such reference in the first sentence), as the third sentence clearly conveys that the format had been abandoned. —] 02:34, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
	HD DVD was developed for the market it was intended for. Blue Ray was developed for the market it was intended for.

			:::My preference would be for the latter, as the state of the format is clear enough in the second sentence, while more detail can be found in the third sentence about the format's demise, than can be conveyed accurately in the one word at the start. I know that "obsolete" was originally added after consensus to placate those IP editors changing it to "was", but with the format war long over it will be less likely anonymous editors will come in and change it to "was", and such edits can be just as easily reverted as people taking out "obsolete" (which has happened just as frequently). ] (]) 04:39, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
	This information should be presented objectively.

			::::I'm going to agree with David Levy on this. I like the idea of not having a word there. However, if you guys ''insist'' on having one, "discontinued" works for me. — ] <sup>]</sup> 04:50, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

			::::I believe that "discontinued" could be accurate for the article. "Was" is not right because the format exists and it's not completely dead. Leaving as "is" also could be Ok, because the next sentence explains about the current situation of the HD DVD format.--] (]) 18:08, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
	: I think we all share your feelings on ], but when you changed "" to "", I think this did not help. We should either ] this or remove it, which I have for the moment. I think this article is about as NPOV as they come as it stands now. (By the way, please ].) -- ] 18:14, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

			:Our sources tell us it is obsolete. The choice for me is or "was" vs. "obsolete". People took issue with "was" for the very reasons you state, so we compromised on "obsolete" ("is an obsolete" vs. "was a"). If someone can find sources indicating this is not true I believe it's relevant in the lead. —] • ] • ] 04:50, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
	== Name change ==

			::1. Replacing "is" with "was" simply doesn't make sense; the HD DVD format has not ceased to exist.
	Proper usage is HD DVD (no hyphen). See the DVD Forum and HD DVD Promotion Group links for confirmation. - HB
			::2. As noted above, the word "obsolete" has multiple connotations, some of which are inapplicable to the format. The word "discontinued" conveys only the applicable connotation.
			::But again, the format's demise is described in greater detail later in the lead. Why is it necessary to also note this (with less specificity) in the first sentence? —] 08:11, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
			:::As I recall this all started because of anons adding it to the lead, so we discussed it to try and settle it. Honestly if it's stated elsewhere in the lead already I don't mind it being omitted from the first sentence. But I wouldn't be surprised to see the anons starting up again. :P —] • ] • ] 08:29, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

			:Toshiba abandoned the format and the HD DVD Promotion Group was dissolved. As such I would support the word discontinued since I would consider it to be the most accurate. --] (]) 23:28, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
	:Edited the wording in the sentence mentioning HD-DVD being cheaper to manufacture, because existing DVD equipment can be modified to manufacture the HD-DVD disks.... --??

			::Of course HD-DVD is obsolete. The definition of obsolete, that "the format has been superseded" is the most accurate way to describe it. We already have references stating that blank recordable disks are no longer being made (Toshiba however built up a stockpile before ending manufacture). HD-DVD has been displaced by (that is, superseded by) Blu-ray. That's what obsolete means. It's bizarre that some people want to say the format is discontinued, but don't want to say it's obsolete. That's what obsolete is.--''']''' 12:33, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
	:Please get an account and/or log in... It only takes a few seconds, and really helps people, not only to be less likely to revert your edits, but also, to indentify yourself, so other ] can get an idea of your personality, based on what edits you make :) --] 06:06, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

			:::I believe that the discontinued status of HD DVD should be noted in the first sentence of the article but I do not currently think it is worth an edit war to add the word obsolete. I do think though that those who argue that HD DVD is "not obsolete yet" will have a harder time doing so with every passing month. --] (]) 11:28, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
	== HD DVD for the Xbox? ==
	"On November 25th the Xbox 360 will be upgraded to HD-DVD in the Premium Version only."

			::::I don't think that anyone here is arguing that HD DVD isn't "obsolete" in the sense described by Lester. The issue is that the word also carries other (perhaps more common) connotations that don't accurately describe the format. The word "discontinued" conveys the intended meaning without ambiguity. —] 12:24, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
	Where is the source!? Nothing has been announced.

			:::If you look in a , you'll see that the word "obsolete" has several meanings. The first part of definition #2 from the first set ("of a discarded or outmoded type") accurately describes the HD DVD format, but the second part ("out of date") does not. (The format's age isn't a factor.)
	:As far as I know, Microsoft has simply stated the Xbox 360 will eventually support whichever form of high definition disc (HD-DVD, or Blu-ray) "wins". --] 06:02, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
			:::No other definition on that page accurately describes the format. Some obviously are inapplicable to this context, but others (particularly "outmoded in design, style, or construction") would mislead people with such connotations in mind.
			:::Essentially, the issue is that readers are likely to interpret the statement to mean that the HD DVD format has been superseded by something newer and widely regarded as better (just as VHS was rendered obsolete by the widespread adoption of DVD).
			:::Conversely, the word "discontinued" conveys the intended meaning (and only the intended meaning), so what's the problem? —] 12:24, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

			::::The problem is that there's still some "combo" (combined) Blu-ray/HD-DVD machines on sale (LG brought theirs to market around the time the format's demise was announced.) With blank disks no longer manufactured, the HD-DVD format is dead. It is superseded by Blu-ray not because it's bad, but because of market forces. Betamax was a technically superior format to VHS, but Betamax was made obsolete by VHS due to market forces.
	:: Microft is on the , which approved the ] spec. A simple turns up more. But HD DVD for the Xbox 360 that's launching at the end of the year? That's news. <br /> - ] 06:40, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
			::::When using a dictionary, not every one of the multiple meanings has to fit. The main meaning of obsolete, that it has been superseded by something else, accurately describes both Betamax and HD-DVD, despite the technical merits of both formats.--''']''' 12:52, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

			:::::1. I don't believe that there are any Blu-ray/HD DVD combo devices that haven't been discontinued as well. Some remain available for purchase until supplies are exhausted (as is the case with standalone HD DVD devices), but I'm not aware of any that are currently being manufactured or developed.
	::: As stated before, nothing has been confirmed. The source of all this is the statement Bill Gates did in Japan in late June. See the article on ] for more information. <br /> - ]
			:::::Your chronology appears to be off, as LG released its second combo player (which I own) before the HD DVD format's demise was announced. According to what I've read, that's when the product was discontinued and the development of a third model was canceled.
			:::::2. I'm not claiming that every definition of a word must apply or that it's incorrect to state that the HD DVD format is "obsolete." I'm saying that such wording is very likely to be misinterpreted (so the word "discontinued" is a much better choice).
			:::::3. Why do you regard "superseded by something else" as "the main meaning of obsolete"? I don't even see a similar definition at Dictionary.com. —] 13:40, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

			:::: If people don't make that stuff anymore, then that thing is undoubtedly obsolete. Words like "obsolete" or "was" would do best. The fact that some people who still have an HD DVD player that still works today doesn't count for its existence. ] (]) 00:25, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
	:::: Actually it was annnounced at the 2006 CES in Las Vegas that Xbox 360 will have an external HD DVD drive add-on; however not much details are announced.

			:::::If there are still working players that people use, then the format is ''not'' obsolete. It may, however, be 'obsolescent'. ] (]) 16:26, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
	== Apple does not support "HD DVD" ==

			== archive ==
	DVD Studio Pro does not allow burning HD DVD media, but it does allow burning HD H.264 content to a normal DVD. Why would Apple support HD DVD when they are on the BOARD OF DIRECTORS for Blu-Ray? -]

			someone should move most of this page to /archive, reduce it down to about a tenth of what it is, leaving nothing but a comparison with ble-ray and links to the format wars historical article, and blu-ray, and then link to the archive.
	:Nevertheless, DVD Studio Pro claims to support this. --] 22:50, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
			no-one cares about this format anymore, its just a historical note at this point.] (]) 23:45, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

			:Oh really? Betamax has a pretty long article too... Just because something fails in the market place or becomes obselete or whatever doesn't mean that Misplaced Pages stops documenting it... <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 07:27, 20 February 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:: From the website: "Showcase your HD content with integrated, scalable H.264 encoding that allows you to fit HD content on DVDs '''using existing drives and existing media'''. Create HD on DVD versions from existing SD projects. Go from native HDV to HD '''on''' DVD with no recompression from Final Cut Pro and save time by encoding HD and SD in one Compressor batch." As you can see there is no mention of HD DVD anywhere. DVD Studio Pro does not claim to support the HD DVD standard in any way. ]<small><sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub></small> 00:03, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

			:The format is not completely dead yet. Drives and players are still being marketed as reading HD DVD disks, software still supports mastering HD DVD (], specifically the ] component, which still does not include Blu-ray support) and ripping HD DVDs, and the red-laser variants 3× DVD and HD REC may yet outlive their blue-laser formats among amateur archivists. Also, back catalog scales of HD DVDs are still ongoing at ] and other on-line vendors. Archiving is premature. ] (]) 20:01, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
	== HP Engineer claims Blu-Ray cash incentives ==

			==Star Trek==
	In the ] section it states an HP engineer has claimed the Blu-Ray alliance offers cash incentives to hardware manufacturers who adopt their technology. Is there a citation which states this engineer's name or has the engineer opted to remain anonymous? --] 07:43, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
			The first season of the original Star Trek TV series with modern CGI is available on Hybrid HD-DVD. Seasons 2 and 3 are not. Quite annoying to Trekkies and Trekkers who invested in HD-DVD players. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 06:42, 6 April 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			:Seasons 2 and 3 were released with modern CGI and the same packaging style as Season 1, but on plain DVD only, not Hybrid HD DVD. Still annoying though, and that the Blu-ray release will be yet another revision of the packaging, so it won't match the Season 1 Hybrid HD DVD set. Meanwhile Amazon seems to be predicting that everything Star Trek will be re-released on Blu-ray, including the animated series. ] (]) 23:35, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

			== HD DVD still existing? ==
	==Copyright==
	I have removed the "Controversies" section three times so far as blatant copyright infringement. I will continue to remove the section until such time as the issue of copyright infringement is addressed. I have warned two users ( and ) who added this section, but I'm assuming both are sockpuppets of eachother (as is the third anon IP to add it). People should remove these additions on sight and without hesitation. —] • ] • ] 07:57, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
	: Wow, isn't copyvio man.. and I hope you invented sockpuppet story to try gain respect, by the way you are no minority... {{unsigned2\|07:01, December 31, 2005\|201.29.9.238}}
	::It's a word for word copy of the articles cited. One user modified them slightly, but they are still a derivitive of a copyrighted work. —] • ] • ] 08:43, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
	::: No copyvios, sorry and keep the information (looks like you trying to hide the section in pro-HD-DVD bias) {{unsigned2\|13:24, December 31, 2005\|201.29.34.245}}
	::::Copying content, verbatim, from another copyrighted source is a violation of copyright. —] • ] • ] 18:24, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

			Just because you could still buy HD DVDs and players in some thrift stores, does that really count to say that the format still exist? Because HD DVD ended 3 years ago, what you can buy right now are just remnants of the format. You can buy them now but who knows how long they'll last, let's say 10 years from today.
	: No copyvios Locke Cole is vandal blanking true informations. {{unsigned2\|18:16, January 2, 2006\|201.29.32.208}}
	::Whether it's true or not is irrelevant, it is illegal to copy verbatim from copyrighted sources into Misplaced Pages. —] • ] • ] 18:24, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

			Take a Ford Model T for example, it is possible for an owner to repeatedly renew its interiors and still make it run good as the day it came out of the assembly line. But that won't stop it from being referred to as obsolete, considering factories no longer produced them. ] (]) 01:01, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
	I'm having a bit of trouble finding exactly what passages are actual verbatim copies of the linked articles--could you perhaps provide a side-by-side comparison of the anon's text and the article sources? I'm pretty picky about plagiarism (see ]), but there's a lot of material to wade through in all those links. Thanks, ](]) 18:58, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
			:Obsolete or discontinued and "does not exist" are two different things. HD DVD is not a product (like a car or an optical disc), it is a format, described in its ]. A specification still exists even if products that implement it do not.—] (]) 05:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
	:I responded on your talk page, it looks like it got changed at some point though significantly (though the first sentence and the initial FUD part were left behind, which was enough for me to believe it was just being copied still). —] • ] • ] 19:19, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

			::This is just arguing semantics. Edison phonograph cylinders still exist (I have around a couple of hundred). Nobody would argue that the format is not obsolete. ] (]) 11:38, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

			== Disc replacements in the U.S. ==

			A IP editor (who apparently doesn't understand that PR is part of the U.S.) has repeatedly removed PR from the list of locations, as in . The material they are removing is well sourced, does not imply that PR is a state and seems to make perfect sense. Nevertheless, they are continuing to remove it, now with absolutely no explanation.
			:
			As the editor in question is moving toward longer blocks, now would be a good time to discuss the issue. - ] (]) 03:42, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

			== Payoff Rumors ==

			I am removing the parts in the Decline section about "Rumors" that Warner Bros were paid $500M to drop the format or that Fox was considering switching to HD-DVD after being a very vocal and prolific supporter of Blu-ray. These rumors were debunked around the time they were started and do not belong on Misplaced Pages.

			See also:
			http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=517166&highlight=don+lindich#post517166

			http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=534903&highlight=don+lindich#post534903

			http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=478095#post478095, backed up by:

			http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=488751&highlight=drunken+sailor+queen#post488751
			] (]) 21:53, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

			== What about Ultra HD-DVD ? ==

			Ultra HD DVD films are expected to be released this year.--] (]) 04:18, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

			There is no "Ultra HD DVD" format. You may be confused with Ultra HD 4K BD, or combining that with a package that includes a DVD. The red-laser "HD DVD" has no new updates. ] (]) <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added 18:17, 28 April 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

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Obsolete is not the right word

I can see in the recent edits of the HD-DVD article, that some users (including myself) don't agree with the "obsolete" word in the beginning of the article. To the people who agree with the word obsolete, please explain your reasons why the word should be on the HD-DVD article.

I can buy an HD-DVD player or HD-DVD discs, so Why is Obsolete? the format still exists so there is no reason to put that. The format was abandoned, but it is not obsolete yet. In the meantime I removed the obsolete and leave as is.--Juancdg (talk) 01:31, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

This is because a consensus was reached on the subject (see the most recent archive). However, I feel this needs re-evaluating, and would support a fresh discussion on it. SynergyBlades (talk) 02:08, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with the discussion's outcome. There are connotations of the term "obsolete" that accurately describe the HD DVD format, but there also are connotations that don't. The wording in question can be interpreted to mean that the format has been superseded by something newer and technologically superior, when we really are trying to state that it's been discontinued. So why not simply refer to it as "discontinued" instead?

Or we could just leave the lead as it is (without any such reference in the first sentence), as the third sentence clearly conveys that the format had been abandoned. —David Levy 02:34, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

My preference would be for the latter, as the state of the format is clear enough in the second sentence, while more detail can be found in the third sentence about the format's demise, than can be conveyed accurately in the one word at the start. I know that "obsolete" was originally added after consensus to placate those IP editors changing it to "was", but with the format war long over it will be less likely anonymous editors will come in and change it to "was", and such edits can be just as easily reverted as people taking out "obsolete" (which has happened just as frequently). SynergyBlades (talk) 04:39, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to agree with David Levy on this. I like the idea of not having a word there. However, if you guys insist on having one, "discontinued" works for me. — HelloAnnyong 04:50, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I believe that "discontinued" could be accurate for the article. "Was" is not right because the format exists and it's not completely dead. Leaving as "is" also could be Ok, because the next sentence explains about the current situation of the HD DVD format.--Juancdg (talk) 18:08, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Our sources tell us it is obsolete. The choice for me is or "was" vs. "obsolete". People took issue with "was" for the very reasons you state, so we compromised on "obsolete" ("is an obsolete" vs. "was a"). If someone can find sources indicating this is not true I believe it's relevant in the lead. —Locke Cole • t • c 04:50, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

1. Replacing "is" with "was" simply doesn't make sense; the HD DVD format has not ceased to exist.

2. As noted above, the word "obsolete" has multiple connotations, some of which are inapplicable to the format. The word "discontinued" conveys only the applicable connotation.

But again, the format's demise is described in greater detail later in the lead. Why is it necessary to also note this (with less specificity) in the first sentence? —David Levy 08:11, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

As I recall this all started because of anons adding it to the lead, so we discussed it to try and settle it. Honestly if it's stated elsewhere in the lead already I don't mind it being omitted from the first sentence. But I wouldn't be surprised to see the anons starting up again. :P —Locke Cole • t • c 08:29, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Toshiba abandoned the format and the HD DVD Promotion Group was dissolved. As such I would support the word discontinued since I would consider it to be the most accurate. --GrandDrake (talk) 23:28, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Of course HD-DVD is obsolete. The definition of obsolete, that "the format has been superseded" is the most accurate way to describe it. We already have references stating that blank recordable disks are no longer being made (Toshiba however built up a stockpile before ending manufacture). HD-DVD has been displaced by (that is, superseded by) Blu-ray. That's what obsolete means. It's bizarre that some people want to say the format is discontinued, but don't want to say it's obsolete. That's what obsolete is.--Lester 12:33, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I believe that the discontinued status of HD DVD should be noted in the first sentence of the article but I do not currently think it is worth an edit war to add the word obsolete. I do think though that those who argue that HD DVD is "not obsolete yet" will have a harder time doing so with every passing month. --GrandDrake (talk) 11:28, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think that anyone here is arguing that HD DVD isn't "obsolete" in the sense described by Lester. The issue is that the word also carries other (perhaps more common) connotations that don't accurately describe the format. The word "discontinued" conveys the intended meaning without ambiguity. —David Levy 12:24, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

If you look in a dictionary, you'll see that the word "obsolete" has several meanings. The first part of definition #2 from the first set ("of a discarded or outmoded type") accurately describes the HD DVD format, but the second part ("out of date") does not. (The format's age isn't a factor.)

No other definition on that page accurately describes the format. Some obviously are inapplicable to this context, but others (particularly "outmoded in design, style, or construction") would mislead people with such connotations in mind.

Essentially, the issue is that readers are likely to interpret the statement to mean that the HD DVD format has been superseded by something newer and widely regarded as better (just as VHS was rendered obsolete by the widespread adoption of DVD).

Conversely, the word "discontinued" conveys the intended meaning (and only the intended meaning), so what's the problem? —David Levy 12:24, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that there's still some "combo" (combined) Blu-ray/HD-DVD machines on sale (LG brought theirs to market around the time the format's demise was announced.) With blank disks no longer manufactured, the HD-DVD format is dead. It is superseded by Blu-ray not because it's bad, but because of market forces. Betamax was a technically superior format to VHS, but Betamax was made obsolete by VHS due to market forces.

When using a dictionary, not every one of the multiple meanings has to fit. The main meaning of obsolete, that it has been superseded by something else, accurately describes both Betamax and HD-DVD, despite the technical merits of both formats.--Lester 12:52, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

1. I don't believe that there are any Blu-ray/HD DVD combo devices that haven't been discontinued as well. Some remain available for purchase until supplies are exhausted (as is the case with standalone HD DVD devices), but I'm not aware of any that are currently being manufactured or developed.

Your chronology appears to be off, as LG released its second combo player (which I own) before the HD DVD format's demise was announced. According to what I've read, that's when the product was discontinued and the development of a third model was canceled.

2. I'm not claiming that every definition of a word must apply or that it's incorrect to state that the HD DVD format is "obsolete." I'm saying that such wording is very likely to be misinterpreted (so the word "discontinued" is a much better choice).

3. Why do you regard "superseded by something else" as "the main meaning of obsolete"? I don't even see a similar definition at Dictionary.com. —David Levy 13:40, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

If people don't make that stuff anymore, then that thing is undoubtedly obsolete. Words like "obsolete" or "was" would do best. The fact that some people who still have an HD DVD player that still works today doesn't count for its existence. 210.4.121.23 (talk) 00:25, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

If there are still working players that people use, then the format is not obsolete. It may, however, be 'obsolescent'. 86.182.71.209 (talk) 16:26, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Star Trek

The first season of the original Star Trek TV series with modern CGI is available on Hybrid HD-DVD. Seasons 2 and 3 are not. Quite annoying to Trekkies and Trekkers who invested in HD-DVD players. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bizzybody (talk • contribs) 06:42, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Seasons 2 and 3 were released with modern CGI and the same packaging style as Season 1, but on plain DVD only, not Hybrid HD DVD. Still annoying though, and that the Blu-ray release will be yet another revision of the packaging, so it won't match the Season 1 Hybrid HD DVD set. Meanwhile Amazon seems to be predicting that everything Star Trek will be re-released on Blu-ray, including the animated series. 198.183.6.22 (talk) 23:35, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

HD DVD still existing?

Just because you could still buy HD DVDs and players in some thrift stores, does that really count to say that the format still exist? Because HD DVD ended 3 years ago, what you can buy right now are just remnants of the format. You can buy them now but who knows how long they'll last, let's say 10 years from today.

Take a Ford Model T for example, it is possible for an owner to repeatedly renew its interiors and still make it run good as the day it came out of the assembly line. But that won't stop it from being referred to as obsolete, considering factories no longer produced them. 119.93.67.178 (talk) 01:01, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Obsolete or discontinued and "does not exist" are two different things. HD DVD is not a product (like a car or an optical disc), it is a format, described in its specification. A specification still exists even if products that implement it do not.—J. M. (talk) 05:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

This is just arguing semantics. Edison phonograph cylinders still exist (I have around a couple of hundred). Nobody would argue that the format is not obsolete. 86.130.28.8 (talk) 11:38, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Disc replacements in the U.S.

A IP editor (who apparently doesn't understand that PR is part of the U.S.) has repeatedly removed PR from the list of locations, as in this edit. The material they are removing is well sourced, does not imply that PR is a state and seems to make perfect sense. Nevertheless, they are continuing to remove it, now with absolutely no explanation.

As the editor in question is moving toward longer blocks, now would be a good time to discuss the issue. - SummerPhD (talk) 03:42, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Payoff Rumors

I am removing the parts in the Decline section about "Rumors" that Warner Bros were paid $500M to drop the format or that Fox was considering switching to HD-DVD after being a very vocal and prolific supporter of Blu-ray. These rumors were debunked around the time they were started and do not belong on Misplaced Pages.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=534903&highlight=don+lindich#post534903

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=478095#post478095, backed up by:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=488751&highlight=drunken+sailor+queen#post488751 Super Saiyan Musashi (talk) 21:53, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

What about Ultra HD-DVD ?

Ultra HD DVD films are expected to be released this year.--Ezzex (talk) 04:18, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

There is no "Ultra HD DVD" format. You may be confused with Ultra HD 4K BD, or combining that with a package that includes a DVD. The red-laser "HD DVD" has no new updates. Dcsutherland (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:17, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

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