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This article is written in South African English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about apartheid. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about apartheid at the Reference desk.

Apartheid was one of the History good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones Date Process Result September 1, 2005 Peer review Reviewed March 20, 2006 Good article nominee Listed November 3, 2007 Good article reassessment Delisted Facts from this article were featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on November 6, 2004, February 2, 2005, November 6, 2005, February 2, 2006, April 27, 2006, November 6, 2006, February 2, 2007, April 27, 2007, November 6, 2007, and February 2, 2015. Current status: Delisted good article

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End of Apartheid was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 21 December 2011 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Apartheid. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 2 times. The weeks in which this happened: December 1 to 7, 2013 December 8 to 14, 2013

On 10 October 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Apartheid in South Africa. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Archives

Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5 Archive 6 Archive 7 Archive 8 Archive 9

Talk:Apartheid/Israel Talk:History of South Africa in the apartheid era/Archive1 (2005/09/03) Talk:History of South Africa in the apartheid era/Archive2 (2006/05/16) Talk:History of South Africa in the apartheid era/Archive3 (2007/01/15) Talk:History of South Africa in the apartheid era/Archive4 (2007/03/04) Talk:History of South Africa in the apartheid era/Archive5 (2008/01/22) Talk:South Africa under apartheid/Archive6 (2008/07/14) Talk:South Africa under apartheid/Archive7 (2009/12/31)

This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present.

Page title

Why is this page not titled: Apartheid in South Africa? The title 'Apartheid' would mean 'the concept of Apartheid' since it is non specific. Just as the page for 'Colonization' is not specific to colonization in any country Truth-proven (talk) 13:43, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Support apartheid has been defined by the International Criminal Court based on UN guidelines, Amnesty International, and many other international organizations to be more than just one historical instance (such as "Segregation," which sends users to a disambiguation page instead of directly to "Racial segregation in the United States"). This would solve the "see also" problem, since only articles related to the South African version of apartheid would be relevant. Catboy69 (talk) 11:56 PM, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - unlike "Segregation", the term "Apartheid" was originally coined in South Africa to refer to the system imposed in South Africa, making this the "original" apartheid. The page Crime of apartheid refers to the broader subsequent use. Having said that, this is a topic that has been discussed before with varying outcomes, and it needs to be discussed properly before any page move is made. Zaian (talk) 06:41, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

"Country" infobox

A user added a "country" infobox to this article recently. I have reverted it based on WP:BRD so it can be discussed here. Zaian (talk) 06:38, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

There is a previous discussion about this at Talk:Apartheid/Archive_9#Inappropriate use of the country infobox. Zaian (talk) 09:33, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 12 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It was proposed in this section that Apartheid be renamed and moved to South Africa and apartheid. result: Not moved. Apologies to the nom, this appears to fall under the snowball clause. Will of course reopen if any editor thinks this change has more than a snowball's chance in the warm, toasty fire. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone stay healthy! P.I. Ellsworth , ed.  10:29, 14 October 2023 (UTC) Move logs: source title · target title This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

References

1. https://www.amnestyusa.org/campaigns/end-apartheid/
2. https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/RS-Eng.pdf
3. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56898864
4. https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
5. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/freedom-riders-jim-crow-laws/
6. https://abcnews.go.com/International/apartheid-jim-crow-george-floyds-death-reverberated-africa/story?id=71556630
7. https://www.wsj.com/articles/apartheid-in-america-1461884503

Oppose per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Most results in Google Books refer to the South African system. Britannica also refers to the South African apartheid as just "apartheid". While I think that at some point in the future that may change, for now it seems as though "Apartheid" as a proper noun refers most commonly to the long-lasting South African system, which itself was the origin of the word. estar8806 (talk) ★ 20:19, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

support the general topic is the primary usage—blindlynx 21:15, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose as per WP:Common names. The very word Apartheid is rooted in the racist policies of South Africa, and is addressed by everyone as such. People don't distinguish Apartheids apart from each other, as there is THE case of Apartheid that everyone knows when they hear it. Sure, some countries have had policies that have been compared to apartheid, and if you want to note criticism in the article, okay. But, the comparisons that people make should not change the title of the definitive case of Apartheid. Same reason why the article for Philadelphia isn't labelled Philadelphia (Pennsylvania), to distinguish it from Philly, Alabama. It is the city you think of when you hear the name Philadelphia. EytanMelech (talk) 01:26, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The system and the word itself originates in South Africa.Fagerbakke (talk) 01:35, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Strong oppose. The South African system is the primary topic for Apartheid. O.N.R.  01:39, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Strong oppose. That’s not how the word, alone, is generally used. This is like trying to abstract “the Holocaust” Zanahary (talk) 01:47, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose It’s a term particular to a specific situation in South Africa. Secondary and contemporary usages can be mentioned in primary article, but it is a specific historical term.Mistamystery (talk) 03:23, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Strong oppose. Please remember Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia. Pg 6475 04:48, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Strong oppose. Misplaced Pages serves as an encyclopedia, not a social media platform for expressing political views. The claim of apartheid in Israel is contested, at best. The primary topic of Apartheid is, and there's no question about it, South African Apartheid. Please don't confuse our readers with fringe political views. Thank you LUC995 (talk) 05:01, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - The word "Apartheid" was originally coined in South Africa to refer to the system imposed in South Africa, making this the "original" apartheid. The page Crime of apartheid refers to the broader subsequent use. Zaian (talk) 06:41, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose per WP:Commonname. When mainstream sources talk about apartheid (without caveats), they are referring to pre-1994 South Africa, where the system and the word itself comes from. Dovidroth (talk) 08:38, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose Apartheid or "apart hood" is a South African term, which is where the ideology was created and refined. It has subsequently been (mis)attributed to other places/events, but this does not stop the South African usage being the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. - Arjayay (talk) 10:22, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - Discussion of apartheid as a general concept outside South Africa is already well covered under crime of apartheid. No need to fork this article. --Katangais (talk) 17:14, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Agreed! Zanahary (talk) 20:07, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose is a South African word and institution, whereas other uses are more novel. Geschichte (talk) 08:44, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Not just South Africa

Given the recent legal ruling re Israel, editors are starting to drop sentences about it into the lead (as a pending change reviewer I’ve rejected 2 or 3 because unsourced). So now would be a good time to start talking about how this is going to develop here:

• one article covering Apartheid anywhere
• this article is renamed to cover South Africa only and a fresh article covers Israel

I realise that this was discussed a few months ago, immediately above. But things have moved on. Thoughts? Nick Levine (talk) 05:45, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Honestly this article could use a split between "Apartheid" as in the practice and other countries that have practiced it/have been accused of practicing it, and "Apartheid South Africa"/"First Republic of South Africa" as in the regime that existed between 1961 and 1997. Pescavelho (talk) 11:28, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Really 🤨 41.114.152.221 (talk) 18:35, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Our WP:PRIMARYTOPIC guideline will glue Apartheid to South Africa for a long time to come, the set of sources changes much slower than reality. There is Israeli apartheid, and for other countries accused of it, or historically subject to it like Namibia, we should wait and see if an article is being developed, and if it sticks. For now I think Israeli apartheid should be included in the disambiguation notice at the top of the article. --Pgallert (talk) 06:17, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

• Agreed this article should be moved to Apartheid in South Africa or Apartheid (South Africa)☆SuperNinja2☆ TALK! 16:55, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

imo this article should be split into "Apartheid" as in the practice itself and include other instances where countries have practiced it or have been accused of practicing it (though there should be a focus on South Africa for obvious reasons), and "Republic of South Africa under Apartheid", "Republic of South Africa (1961-1994)" (though South Africa's current constitution was only adopted in 1997) or even "First Republic of South Africa", which could have a focus on the period of South Africa's history as a republic when Apartheid was in effect. And yes, I know the Republic of South Africa under Apartheid and the modern Republic of South Africa are the same country with a different constitution. However, there is a precedent for compartmentalizing periods of a country's history like this. See the separate pages for the First, Second, Third, Fourth and Fifth Republic of Korea. Pescavelho (talk) 22:47, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

There was one Republic of South Africa from 1961 to 1983, and another Republic established by the constitution of 1983 which was superseded by the constitution of 1994. So we would need a page for the 1961-83 Republic, and another one for the 1983-94 Republic if we’re speaking in strictly constitutional terms. Additionally, an article already exists for the general Crime of apartheid as defined under international law; ergo, a further split of this article would be redundant to that. --Katangais (talk) 22:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

In the case of France (and I assume South Korea) it is normal for historians to refer to the First, Second, Third, etc. Republics. I have never seen that kind of usage by historians about South Africa and Misplaced Pages shouldn't be inventing it. Returning to the original topic, I agree that the split of articles apartheid vs crime of apartheid correctly handles the distinction between the South African and international contexts. - htonl (talk) 06:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Instead of there being two separate articles for the "Libyan Arab Republic" and "Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya", there's a single page about "Libya under Gaddafi", because this is a case where there appears to be a break of continuity where there really isn't one in the grand scheme of things. "Apartheid South Africa" would work but the problem is that Apartheid had its origins in the Union of South Africa following the National Party's victory (and arguably earlier, there was segregation, but Apartheid in the South African context is specifically understood as the National Party policy).

Honestly, part of the reason I'm adamant about making separate articles for Apartheid as in the crime, and "Republic of South Africa under apartheid", is the fact that it's a bit jarring, and I know this is rather subjective, to, for instance, go into the South African Border War page, click on the main belligerent's name, and be greeted with a page that's ostensibly about the Rainbow Nation. Pescavelho (talk) 14:59, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 10 October 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus is that its manifestation in South Africa is the primary topic. A hatnote linking to Crime of apartheid (and possibly Israeli apartheid) may be justified, but that is an editorial decision outwith the move request. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 23:56, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Apartheid → Apartheid in South Africa – For the reason Nick Levine stated above and since the United Nations has accepted the apartheid as a term in and of itself and as general crime that can be committed anywhere outside SA, it just doesn't make any sense to keep the article subject bound to the historical event in SA. I mean, the Holocaust was the reason to make laws against genocides but it doesn't make sense to make the article Genocide bound to Holocaust and another one called Crime of genocide for all other genocides! ☆SuperNinja2☆ TALK! 17:12, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

• Strong oppose this is the clear WP:Primary topic. Google scholar gives 895,000 hits for “apartheid south africa”, 149,000 for “apartheid israel”. The article Crime of apartheid is for the general phenomenon.

Kowal2701 (talk) 18:26, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

If all genocides were called holocausts, and named after the Jewish one, of course Holocaust would be on the Jewish one. Kowal2701 (talk) 18:27, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Premature, discussion in the previous paragraphs has barely started. Apartheid has its roots and its terminology in South Africa, and unless (heaven forbid) it becomes a global phenomenon, the main article should cover that. For now, the existence of the articles on Israeli apartheid and Crime of apartheid is sufficient to make distinctions of locale, and the South African historic developments are, as Kowal2701 says, the primary topic. --Pgallert (talk) 19:56, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
• Strong oppose. As was the case last year, the primary topic is obviously South Africa's system. O.N.R.  20:53, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:COMMONNAME. --Coolcaesar (talk) 21:17, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. Apartheid is an Afrikaans word to describe the system that dominated South Africa, so it is the WP:Primary topic. To use it as a common word for other discriminatory practices, rarely as politically entrenched, or broad-reaching, is to dilute the 40+ years of segregation and oppression. - Arjayay (talk) 21:30, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Strong oppose - far and away the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. "Apartheid" was originally used to describe the system in South Africa. I do actually find the nominator's rationale incredibly interesting as they make comparisons with The Holocaust and Genocide. Much like "Apartheid", "Holocaust" is not exclusively used to refer to The Holocaust, but at some points in history has been used as an equivalent or similar term to "genocide". And unlike "Apartheid", "Holocaust" was used before The Holocaust to refer to other genocides, such as the Armenian genocide. I don't really have an argumentative point with that, I just found it an interesting comparison that was made. estar8806 (talk) ★ 21:46, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Comment a compromise may be to put In recent decades the term has taken on a more general meaning as it has been applied to different contexts, having been incorporated into international law as the crime of apartheid in 2002. towards the end of the lead. And then a small section in the body on the different contexts it’s been applied to Kowal2701 (talk) 21:47, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

But as Arjayay has said, this is a slippery slope to diluting the topic. Kowal2701 (talk) 21:48, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I personally don't see a need to mention it in the lede when it's already linked above the prose in a WP:HATNOTE. estar8806 (talk) ★ 21:48, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Good point Kowal2701 (talk) 21:49, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose While there are many statements regarding "apartheid in the country x" such as "Apartheid in Malaysia", "Apartheid in Israel", etc., they are never included in any official documents aside from South Africa itself, and "Apartheid" remains more specific to South African system officially. Therefore, it's still a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC counting by long-term significance. 103.111.100.82 (talk) 22:06, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Proposition: Suggest rewording the {{About}} hatnote to:

This article is about apartheid in South Africa. For apartheid as defined in international law, see Crime of apartheid. For apartheid involving Palestinians, see Israeli apartheid. For other uses, see Apartheid (disambiguation).

Source code:

{{About|apartheid in South Africa|apartheid as defined in international law|Crime of apartheid|apartheid involving Palestinians|Israeli apartheid|other uses}}

waddie96 ★ (talk) 00:08, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: Per my comments during the last RM, discussion of apartheid as a general concept is already well-covered under crime of apartheid. There's no need to fork this article. The genocide/crime of genocide analogy is not effective here, because while "apartheid" is similarly a specific crime as defined under international law, it is also the historic name of specific legislative system (which genocide is not). Furthermore, moving the current article to Apartheid in South Africa blatantly ignores the fact that this system also existed in Namibia. --Katangais (talk) 03:23, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. Mellk (talk) 09:44, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Kowal2701's reasoning. Chariotsacha (talk) 02:53, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

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