| Revision as of 16:53, 30 November 2023 edit64.26.99.248 (talk) →Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2023: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 09:32, 19 December 2024 edit undoSmittenGalaxy (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers1,826 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2024 |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=y|class=B|vital=yes|living=no|listas=Truth, Sojourner|1= |
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== Featured picture scheduled for POTD == |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2023 == |
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Hello! This is to let editors know that ], a ] used in this article, has been selected as the English Misplaced Pages's ] (POTD) for February 5, 2025. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at ]. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the ]. If you have any concerns, please place a message at ]. Thank you! — ] (]) 10:20, 3 April 2024 (UTC) <!-- Template:UpcomingPOTD --> |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Sojourner Truth|answered=yes}} |
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<div style="margin-top:4px; border:1px solid #ddcef2; background:#faf5ff; overflow:auto;"><div style="margin:0.6em 0.4em 0.1em;">{{POTD/Day|2025-02-05|excludeheader=yes}}</div></div> |
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Please revert , which makes the sentence nonsensical: previously it contrasted Southern (which Truth wasn't) with northern, Dutch (which she was); now it incoherently contrasts black (which she was) with northern, Dutch (which she also was). ] (]) 13:22, 25 November 2023 (UTC) |
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==Wiki Education assignment: WGS-200== |
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:She was not Dutch, she was Black. Additionally, AAVE was (and still is) primarily spoken in the Southern United States. ] (]) 21:04, 25 November 2023 (UTC) |
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{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Misplaced Pages:Wiki_Ed/Emory_University,_Oxford_College/WGS-200_(Fall) | assignments = ] | start_date = 2024-08-29 | end_date = 2024-12-16 }} |
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::She was Dutch-speaking! It literally makes no sense to contrast "stereotypical Black dialect" with ""from New York and grew up speaking Dutch as her first language". Unsurprisingly, your change also makes the sentence a poor summary of the relevant part of the body (which, unlike your version, does not suffer from any confusion), whereas the previous version correctly encapsulated the body discussion of this point. (NB: the previous sentence shows the correct structure of a sentence using "whereas": the two halves have to be in direct contrast or contradiction with each other.) --] (]) 02:39, 26 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:::I do not want to assume, but I believe you don't really have a firm grasp on the history of race in the United States (at least with Black people). In the context of the antebellum south, "stereotypical Black dialect" absolutely contrasts with "from New York and grew up speaking Dutch as her first language." The majority of all Black people have always been in the South, especially in those times. Even in modernity, a standard New York accent would never be considered AAVE, let alone a person speaking Dutch in New York. I apologize for the grammatical error, as that is entirely my fault, but my correction makes sense considering her background and the racial context of the United States. ] (]) 03:02, 26 November 2023 (UTC) |
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<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by ] (]) 14:01, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</span> |
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::::{{ping|Wikeezy}} Your personal comments are both inappropriate and mistaken, but more importantly they're irrelevant: the problem with your edit has nothing to do with ''substance'', it has to do with ''basic principles of good writing in English''. Consider the sentence "Before the merger, main production took place in Michigan, whereas afterwards, the work was done by hand." This sentence is totally broken because it contrasts (using "whereas") two things that are not in conflict (and indeed not related to each other). You've done the same thing to the sentence in question: before it contrasted ''typically Southern dialect'' with ''from New York, Dutch-speaking'' -- two things that are in opposition. After your edit, it contrasts ''typically Black'' with ''from New York, Dutch speaking'' -- but these are not in conflict, indeed Truth was Black ''and'' from New York and spoke Dutch as her first language. |
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::::The edit by {{u|Pinchme123}} maybe sort of fixes the problem you created, but at an even higher cost: now we have a long digression in the lead of a biography of an important person about the question of the relationship between Southern and Black dialects of English, something that is utterly irrelevant to her biography, complete with a citation that is not used in the body and has nothing to do with Truth at all! The original status quo was better than either of the two subsequent versions; another good option would be to trim the sentence back so something like "The speech became widely known during the Civil War by the title "Ain't I a Woman?"", optionally with a (brief!) mention that the most widely circulated version of the speech differed considerably from contemporaneous accounts (but without the additional digression into the details of how it differed). |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2024 == |
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::::Someone who knows how to craft a decent sentence ({{u|EEng}}?) would be helpful here. ] (]) 15:48, 28 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::A '''typically '''Black dialect contrasts with Dutch speaking in New York when '''90%''' of people with a Black dialect(AAVE speakers) live in the southern United States, which was the case when Truth was alive. If 90% of the speakers of a dialect live in the south, you can contrast it with people who speak a different dialect in the north (also Truth was Black but didn't speak AAVE, which is common among Black people who are not from areas with high Black populations, i.e the South.) Again, it seems my comments are not mistaken. ] (]) 19:14, 28 November 2023 (UTC) |
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{{edit semi-protected|Sojourner Truth|answered=yes}} |
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::::::This isn't an article about typical language patterns, ''it's an article about Sojourner Truth''. She was Black and northern and Dutch-speaking, so ''in her case'' (which is '''what the article is about''') the contrast makes no sense. Your defense of this bad edit is a sequence of non-sequiturs (just as the edit itself creates an egregious non-sequitur). That they are ''true'' non-sequiturs is better than the alternative, for sure -- but they don't address the problems with the edit. This is again not surprising given your editing history, but it is a shame you don't think Sojourner Truth matters enough for it to be worthwhile to write her biography here well. ] (]) 16:53, 30 November 2023 (UTC) |
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change "Robert's owner (Charles Catton, Jr., a landscape painter) forbade their relationship; he did not want the people he enslaved to have children with people he was not enslaving, because he would not own the children. One day Robert sneaked over to see Truth. When Catton and his son found him, they savagely beat Robert until Dumont finally intervened." to "Robert's owner (Charles Catton, Jr., a landscape painter) forbade their relationship because he would not own any of Truth and Robert's potential children. When Catton and his son caught Robert with Truth, they beat him until Truth's owner, Dumont, finally intervened." |
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:] '''Note:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> To alleviate this tension, I've tried adding an explanatory clause to the sentence along with a citation, to address some of the concerns raised in this section. I'm marking this as responded-to. -- ] (]) 05:34, 26 November 2023 (UTC) |
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change "Isaac offered to buy her services for the remainder of the year (until the state's emancipation took effect), which Dumont accepted for $20." to " Isaac offered to buy her services for the remainder of the year (until the state's emancipation took effect), which Dumont accepted for $20 (about $615.56 in 2023). <ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.officialdata.org/us/inflation/1826?endYear=2023&amount=20 |website=CPI Inflation Calculator |access-date=10/28/2024}}</ref>" |
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change "That same year, she purchased a home in Florence for $300 (about $11,719.31 in 2023) <ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.officialdata.org/us/inflation/1826?endYear=2023&amount=20 |website=CPI Inflation Calculator |access-date=10/28/2024}}</ref> " |
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change "In May, she attended the Ohio Women's Rights Convention in Akron, Ohio, where she delivered her famous extemporaneous speech on women's rights, later known as "Ain't I a Woman?". Her speech demanded equal human rights for all women. She also spoke as a former enslaved woman, combining calls for abolitionism with women's rights, and drawing from her strength as a laborer to make her equal rights claims." to "In May, she attended the Ohio Women's Rights Convention in Akron, Ohio, where she delivered her most famous speech on women's rights. There are two versions of the speech, the most commonly referenced version "Ain't I a Woman?" and the lesser known, likely more accurate version "I am a Woman's Rights." <ref>{{cite web |last1=Walker |first1=Malea |title=Sojourner Truth’s Most Famous Speech |url=https://blogs.loc.gov/headlinesandheroes/2021/04/sojourner-truths-most-famous-speech/ |website=Library of Congress Blogs |publisher=Library of Congress |access-date=10/28/2024}}</ref> Her speech demanded equal human rights for all women. She also spoke as a former enslaved woman, combining calls for abolitionism with women's rights, and drawing from her strength as a laborer to make her equal rights claims." ] (]) 15:05, 28 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' According to the page's protection level you should be able to ]. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] <span style="font-weight:bold">|</span> ] 09:31, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
change "Robert's owner (Charles Catton, Jr., a landscape painter) forbade their relationship; he did not want the people he enslaved to have children with people he was not enslaving, because he would not own the children. One day Robert sneaked over to see Truth. When Catton and his son found him, they savagely beat Robert until Dumont finally intervened." to "Robert's owner (Charles Catton, Jr., a landscape painter) forbade their relationship because he would not own any of Truth and Robert's potential children. When Catton and his son caught Robert with Truth, they beat him until Truth's owner, Dumont, finally intervened."
change "Isaac offered to buy her services for the remainder of the year (until the state's emancipation took effect), which Dumont accepted for $20." to " Isaac offered to buy her services for the remainder of the year (until the state's emancipation took effect), which Dumont accepted for $20 (about $615.56 in 2023). "
change "That same year, she purchased a home in Florence for $300 (about $11,719.31 in 2023) "
change "In May, she attended the Ohio Women's Rights Convention in Akron, Ohio, where she delivered her famous extemporaneous speech on women's rights, later known as "Ain't I a Woman?". Her speech demanded equal human rights for all women. She also spoke as a former enslaved woman, combining calls for abolitionism with women's rights, and drawing from her strength as a laborer to make her equal rights claims." to "In May, she attended the Ohio Women's Rights Convention in Akron, Ohio, where she delivered her most famous speech on women's rights. There are two versions of the speech, the most commonly referenced version "Ain't I a Woman?" and the lesser known, likely more accurate version "I am a Woman's Rights." Her speech demanded equal human rights for all women. She also spoke as a former enslaved woman, combining calls for abolitionism with women's rights, and drawing from her strength as a laborer to make her equal rights claims." Mbrem14 (talk) 15:05, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2024 and 16 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mbrem14 (article contribs).
Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. SmittenGalaxy | talk! 09:31, 19 December 2024 (UTC)