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Revision as of 08:10, 1 May 2011 editFerox Seneca (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users3,128 edits →From "Minister of Commerce" to "CCP Secretary of Chongqing"?: General consensus on Bo's movement to Chongqing.← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 16:27, 19 December 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk \| contribs)Bots, Template editors2,311,180 editsm Archiving 22 discussion(s) to Talk:Bo Xilai/Archive 2, Talk:Bo Xilai/Archive 3, Talk:Bo Xilai/Archive 1, Talk:Bo Xilai/Archive 4) (botTag: Replaced
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	==Lack of Objectiveness in Language?==
	<br>
	"Known for his good looks, articulate speech, open-minded work ethic, and a generally liberal outlook, Bo's phenomenal rise from a municipal official to the Central government has been of great media attention and has since elevated his status to that of a political star. The archetype of a politician Bo presents is seldom seen with a generally serious and conservative leadership in Beijing. He has a reputation of a Kennedy-esque figure, his charisma known to media from the Mainland, Hong Kong, and even abroad."
	<br>
	<br>
	It is unsourced, and seems irrelevant. Thoughts?
	] (]) 14:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
	==From "Minister of Commerce" to "CCP Secretary of Chongqing"?==
	That's a huge demotion~! What happened? Anybody? ] (]) 04:59, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
	:Might be all the lawsuits he's getting for ]?--<font style="bold">]</font><font color="black" style="bold">]</font> 01:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
	::I don't think so. The CCP doesn't care that much about that. I think it's more like corruption or "ethics" stuff (aka relationship w/ short skirts secretaries, etc etc). Might be worth looking into it. I don't know, his political career might even end here. ] (]) 04:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
	:::It's not a demotion. In fact, he was raised to the Politburo just before he received this position. Chongquing is arguably the largest municipality in the world; it is not a place to put the disgraced or the incompetent. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 12:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	<br>
	I like how you put ethics in quotation marks! But I thought this kind of thing was commonplace and even less to prick an eyebrow? I was also under the impression that the CCP is shaking in its boots over these cases. After Bo got a default judgement against him in a relatively recent case in Australia, where he was being sued for torture, the CCP got Australian immigration department to intervene in later cases and request immunity for the people who were getting sued--this happened soon after. These guys are also traveling around less as the cases get pushed forward; I guess time will tell.--<font style="bold">]</font><font color="black" style="bold">]</font> 05:02, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
	:Bo is very high up, (well, was...) and on the track to be a star. You can see the praises of propaganda sites everywhere. He must have tons of emeries. Something big must had happened, so that someone in the party, poked out all kinds of "ethics"/corruption problems against him. Otherwise, in order to bring down the Son of ], you better do your homework. Honey traps are minor, but I wanna point out 1 thing tho --- His kid, Bo GuaGua (薄瓜瓜), went to ] and now studying at Oxford. How can Bo afford to send his kid to Harrow is still a question. Besides, the kid got way too much attention --- He went on photo shoots for varies magazines, including ] and stuff. This must got tons of hates from ppl. Well, we will see.
	:http://i22.tinypic.com/23ifrtc.jpg
	:http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/chinas-blue-bloods-ignore-call-of-politics/2007/02/09/1170524304074.html (Aus. Newspaper Reporting, check it out) ] (]) 05:32, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

	"In the People's Republic of China, a Party Committee Secretary, colloquially termed a party chief (党委书记), is the most prominent regional Communist Party leadership office, usually the number-one figure in their respective regions. For example, Yu Zhengsheng, the Communist Party Shanghai Committee Secretary, is the city's highest ranked leader, higher than the mayor."
	"Chongqing is the largest and most populous of the People's Republic of China's four provincial-level municipalities"
	Take a look at past Ministers of Commerce and you would see that they serve between either 3 or 5 years. Bo served his 3 and naturally goes to serve somewhere else. His current post of Secretary of Chongqing is hardly a demotion. ] (]) 08:07, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
	::I disagree. Sure, Party Committee Secretary, sure Chongqing, sure 4 municipalities, sure…etc etc. The central committee is a place that every single CCP member wanna get in. It’s every Chinese bureaucrat’s dream to get in there. Bo was there (almost), he was born w/ the “Red Revolution Blood”, he is well connected, his family is powerful, heck, many people even think he is good looking. Just take a look – Guangzhou, Shanghai, Beijing, Tianjing, Shenzhen, Zhuhai, Chongqing, all these are the most powerful cities in China. How many of these “party secretaries” actually made to the central Committee? Any provincial official would tell you that they would trade everything to go to the central government. Bo himself came from Dalian, not a bad start, one of the most important cities in Manchuria. So according to the “unofficial party rule” that he “has” the “local experience” already, sending him back to any provincial government is surely a demotion. Of course, I don’t think he will stay in Chongqing forever, he is there to stay out of sight, to go “low profile” for a while, then when the time is right, he will come back. (I think) ] (]) 19:44, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
	:::You obviously have a great deal of knowledge on the inner minds of China's most powerful politicians (sarcasm btw) and you already have the preconceived notion that regular party shuffling is a form of demotion. Bo is doing important work wherever he goes and whatever he does. Saying he is where he is purely because of his family and connections is disrespectful to not only Bo, but all of China. You too, should take a look at holders of important posts. Many have served in different parts of the country. China is a vast country and it is ridiculous to think one area is representative of her in entirety. In your future mature discussions, do not dismiss other people's arguments with a simple "sure". To prove other people wrong and to prove yourself right, you proud evidence that support yourself. So far the only thing you've convinced me of is that you often make assumptions and like to guess. You only needed to direct me to ] page where it is clearly shown that ministry heads are ranked higher than provincial party chiefs to convince me. ] (]) 03:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
	::::I wasn't trying to convince you. The only thing I said was – '''“I disagree.”''' As far as I can see - You guess as much as I do. I posted the question here to ask people to share their POVs on issues, that's all. ] (]) 18:08, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

	The post of Mayor of Chongqing isn't a low-profile position, but is considered a less-prestigious position than Minister of Commerce, and Bo himself must have been hoping to move higher within the central government. Among the people I know who follow internal Chinese politics closely, this is considered a sort of demotion that is not serious enough to cause a serious loss of face. The main cause of Bo's move to Chongqing is usually cited as the number of serious consumer-quality issues that occurred (and were widely reported by the international media) during his term in office, and a general dissatisfaction among the more senior leadership with how Bo handled these issues. The most serious issue that occurred during Bo's term was the ], which brought international attention to China's poor (and apparently corrupt) quality-control system. Suggestions that Bo moved to Chongqing because of anything to do with Fulan Gong are ridiculous and imply a poorly-informed interpretation of Chinese politics.] (]) 08:10, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

	==Bo's role in the ]==
	Highly notable: --<font style="bold">]</font><font color="black" style="bold">]</font> 01:39, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

	== His Son, ==

	Recent featured on BBC News showing corruption and how a modest politburo member could afford to send his son to Oxford University. Plus, who wrote that he was expelled? The links are:

	http://search.tianya.cn/shareview.jsp?id=5f0c3a973d5bb366f3856f05a78fa0ac
	http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/05/oxford-star-bo-guagua-scoops-top-award-in-britain/
	http://chinadigitaltimes.net/china/bo-xilai/
	http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/jamesreynolds/2009/06/conflict_of_party_and_private.html#comments

	Im not sure how to fit them in, sorry guys --CorrectlyContentious 17:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
	:Well, I added the "CN" Tag...I wanna know if he was really expelled also. The links above are not RS. Most of them are saying things like "I heard it from a friend" or "My friend who is at Oxford" or "Blah blah blah told me". Nah, doesn't work like that. ] (]) 22:57, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

	== Really suspicious ==		== Really suspicious ==
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	::IP editor 68.149.159.247, please read ] :''Misplaced Pages articles should be based on reliable, published sources, making sure that all majority and significant-minority views that have appeared in reliable, published sources are covered;''		::IP editor 68.149.159.247, please read ] :''Misplaced Pages articles should be based on reliable, published sources, making sure that all majority and significant-minority views that have appeared in reliable, published sources are covered;''
	#] is a world famous Chinese reporter who had been thrown into jail by none other than ], because Jiang knows too much dark secrets of Bo and even dare to publish the secrets, so I would not call them ''bullshit propaganda.<i><b><small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small>~~<font~~ ~~color="blue"> <sup>~~]</sup>~~</font>~~</b></i> 23:26, 1 February 2010 (UTC)		#] is a world famous Chinese reporter who had been thrown into jail by none other than ], because Jiang knows too much dark secrets of Bo and even dare to publish the secrets, so I would not call them ''bullshit propaganda.<i><b><small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> ]</b></i> 23:26, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

	:::The truth is somewhere in between. Jiang Weiping does have a grudge against Bo, that much is for sure. As far as I can tell he is not against the Communist Party itself like the Epoch Times, but has certainly partnered with them because they all seem to be critical of some part of the CPC bureaucracy. In any case, I would warn against using Jiang's sources unless it is clearly stated who he is and that he is writing on behalf of the Epoch Times - a newspaper that does not have a shred of credibility. ]+<small>(])</small> 00:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC)		:::The truth is somewhere in between. Jiang Weiping does have a grudge against Bo, that much is for sure. As far as I can tell he is not against the Communist Party itself like the Epoch Times, but has certainly partnered with them because they all seem to be critical of some part of the CPC bureaucracy. In any case, I would warn against using Jiang's sources unless it is clearly stated who he is and that he is writing on behalf of the Epoch Times - a newspaper that does not have a shred of credibility. ]+<small>(])</small> 00:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

	:::Colipon, please remember Misplaced Pages is not about ''Truth or Lies'', ''True or false'', it is about ''Reliable and verifiable''. And your comment ''Epoch Times - a newspaper that does not have a shred of credibility'' is highly questionable, to say the least, and is there any difference if he is writing for The New York Times or The Epoch Times?<i><b><small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small>~~<font~~ ~~color="blue"> <sup>~~]</sup>~~</font>~~</b></i> 01:08, 2 February 2010 (UTC)		:::Colipon, please remember Misplaced Pages is not about ''Truth or Lies'', ''True or false'', it is about ''Reliable and verifiable''. And your comment ''Epoch Times - a newspaper that does not have a shred of credibility'' is highly questionable, to say the least, and is there any difference if he is writing for The New York Times or The Epoch Times?<i><b><small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> ]</b></i> 01:08, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

	::::Arilang, are you serious? How many does Epoch Times have to be discredited before you admit that they are not a reliable news source? NYT and Epoch Times are the two extremes of good and bad journalism that you can possibly find. Are you serious in your claims that they could be possibly put into the same level? Have you ever read Epoch Times? Go on it now and read some of their BS.] (]) 17:50, 24 February 2010 (UTC)		::::Arilang, are you serious? How many does Epoch Times have to be discredited before you admit that they are not a reliable news source? NYT and Epoch Times are the two extremes of good and bad journalism that you can possibly find. Are you serious in your claims that they could be possibly put into the same level? Have you ever read Epoch Times? Go on it now and read some of their BS.] (]) 17:50, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

			:::::Ok, come on guys, I thought we were over the fact that the Epoch Times is a literal propaganda rag during the Falun Gong feuds that originally led to my extended wiki-break. Do you have to go and start inserting this ] into articles that aren't related to the cult?] (]) 12:16, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

	===Kristof NYT piece===		===Kristof NYT piece===
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	{{cquote\|Jiang's reporting uncovered several corruption scandals involving high-level officials, including such well-connected leaders as Bo Xilai, governor of Liaoning province and son of Communist Party elder Bo Yibo.		{{cquote\|Jiang's reporting uncovered several corruption scandals involving high-level officials, including such well-connected leaders as Bo Xilai, governor of Liaoning province and son of Communist Party elder Bo Yibo.

	http://cpj.org/awards/2001/jiang.php}}<i><b><small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small>~~<font~~ ~~color="blue"> <sup>~~]</sup>~~</font>~~</b></i> 12:59, 26 April 2011 (UTC)		http://cpj.org/awards/2001/jiang.php}}<i><b><small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> ]</b></i> 12:59, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

	:The story of Jiang Weiping is well-known and has been widely reported within the mainstream Western media and by nonprofit organizations representing the interests of international journalists. I don't know anything about his relationships with either Fulan Gong or media related to Fulan Gong, but the basic facts of his life and career have been openly reported by non-Fulan Gong sources.		:The story of Jiang Weiping is well-known and has been widely reported within the mainstream Western media and by nonprofit organizations representing the interests of international journalists. I don't know anything about his relationships with either Fulan Gong or media related to Fulan Gong, but the basic facts of his life and career have been openly reported by non-Fulan Gong sources.
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	:] (]) 06:14, 29 April 2011 (UTC)		:] (]) 06:14, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

			== Lead section ==

			I think at the last sentence in the lead section should be in the first paragraph.

			"On 22 September 2013, Bo was found guilty of corruption, stripped of all his assets, and sentenced to life imprisonment." ] (]) 01:58, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

			== Marxist reading? ==
			anyone object to my adding something of a marxian reading to this saga - including the downfall and the chongqing model? I'm talking about the commentaries of Lin Chun, Zhao Yuezhi, Wang Hui, mainly, regarding theories of neoliberal conspiracy on Bo's downfall and what they consider the unfulfilled promise of the CQ model.<span style="text-shadow:#000000 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em">]<span style="color:Gray;"> '''''monsoon''''' </span>]</span> 19:44, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
			:Well this certainly sounds very ''interesting'' so I'd say be bold. ]+<small>(])</small> 12:57, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
			::hah! I can't tell if you're being somewhat tongue-in-cheek - but anyway, they are published in what I believe count as reliable sources (Monthly Review?) so let me collect them together a bit and make a section for that. it's just about getting this perspective on the record really. (though at the same time, there are actual economists who don't think the CQ model was really any different than a hypertrophied version of 'the China model' - probably would be good to has that out a little too.)<span style="text-shadow:#000000 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em">]<span style="color:Gray;"> '''''monsoon''''' </span>]</span> 16:35, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
			:::I would be most interested to see someone analyze Bo's policies in Chongqing and Xi's current policies in China as a whole. ]+<small>(])</small> 20:01, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

			== Maoist party ==
			Epoch Times is not a reliable source. ] (]) 13:29, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

			:The Epoch Times certainly has its angle, but then again so does the Xinhua News Agency, Fox News, and the SCMP, all of which are references in this entry. ] (]) 22:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
			::The four sources you name are not quite in the same category. ] (]) 18:06, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

			== Is he dead? ==

			According to some Chinese sources, he might be dead. Please confirm

			https://m.creaders.net/news/page/988075 ] (]) 08:54, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

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Really suspicious

how all the additional links at the bottom lead to FLG websites. It's really quite infuriating how the FLG members have hijacked countless Chinese-related articles, yet still have their bullshit propaganda quoted as legitimate sources on Misplaced Pages.

Don't you all have something better to do, like burning yourselves to death? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.149.159.247 (talk) 03:39, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

IP editor 68.149.159.247, please read Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources :Misplaced Pages articles should be based on reliable, published sources, making sure that all majority and significant-minority views that have appeared in reliable, published sources are covered;

Jiang Weiping is a world famous Chinese reporter who had been thrown into jail by none other than Bo Xilai, because Jiang knows too much dark secrets of Bo and even dare to publish the secrets, so I would not call them bullshit propaganda. Arilang 23:26, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

The truth is somewhere in between. Jiang Weiping does have a grudge against Bo, that much is for sure. As far as I can tell he is not against the Communist Party itself like the Epoch Times, but has certainly partnered with them because they all seem to be critical of some part of the CPC bureaucracy. In any case, I would warn against using Jiang's sources unless it is clearly stated who he is and that he is writing on behalf of the Epoch Times - a newspaper that does not have a shred of credibility. Colipon+(Talk) 00:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Colipon, please remember Misplaced Pages is not about Truth or Lies, True or false, it is about Reliable and verifiable. And your comment Epoch Times - a newspaper that does not have a shred of credibility is highly questionable, to say the least, and is there any difference if he is writing for The New York Times or The Epoch Times? Arilang 01:08, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Arilang, are you serious? How many does Epoch Times have to be discredited before you admit that they are not a reliable news source? NYT and Epoch Times are the two extremes of good and bad journalism that you can possibly find. Are you serious in your claims that they could be possibly put into the same level? Have you ever read Epoch Times? Go on it now and read some of their BS.192.17.205.72 (talk) 17:50, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok, come on guys, I thought we were over the fact that the Epoch Times is a literal propaganda rag during the Falun Gong feuds that originally led to my extended wiki-break. Do you have to go and start inserting this undue nonsense into articles that aren't related to the cult?Simonm223 (talk) 12:16, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Kristof NYT piece

On the topic of Falun Gong, here are some fairly heavy words from The New York Times China's Donkey Droppings By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF Published: December 1, 2004

So what are China's new leaders, Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao, really like? Are they visionaries who are presiding over the greatest explosion of wealth the world has ever known? Or are they ruthless thugs who persecute Christians, Falun Gong adherents, labor leaders and journalists in a desperate attempt to maintain their dictatorship?

Jiang Weiping

China Releases Investigative Reporter Whose Jailing Had Upset U.S. By Philip P. Pan Washington Post Foreign Service

Jiang Weiping, a former bureau chief for the Hong Kong newspaper Wen Hui Bao, was arrested in December 2000 after writing a series of articles for the magazine Frontline that exposed corruption among senior officials in the northeastern province of Liaoning. He was then sentenced to eight years in prison on charges of revealing state secrets and inciting subversion. A higher court later reduced the sentence to six years. Jiang also reported that one of the Communist Party's rising stars, Bo Xilai, covered up corruption among friends and relatives during his years as mayor of the city of Dalian. Bo, who is the son of the party elder Bo Yibo, was serving as the Liaoning governor when Jiang's reports were published, and is now China's trade minister.

“

Jiang's reporting uncovered several corruption scandals involving high-level officials, including such well-connected leaders as Bo Xilai, governor of Liaoning province and son of Communist Party elder Bo Yibo.

http://cpj.org/awards/2001/jiang.php

”

Arilang 12:59, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

The story of Jiang Weiping is well-known and has been widely reported within the mainstream Western media and by nonprofit organizations representing the interests of international journalists. I don't know anything about his relationships with either Fulan Gong or media related to Fulan Gong, but the basic facts of his life and career have been openly reported by non-Fulan Gong sources.

http://www.cpj.org/blog/2009/02/a-twisting-road-to-canada-for-a-chinese-journalist.php

Ferox Seneca (talk) 06:14, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Lead section

I think at the last sentence in the lead section should be in the first paragraph.

"On 22 September 2013, Bo was found guilty of corruption, stripped of all his assets, and sentenced to life imprisonment." Aaabbb11 (talk) 01:58, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Marxist reading?

anyone object to my adding something of a marxian reading to this saga - including the downfall and the chongqing model? I'm talking about the commentaries of Lin Chun, Zhao Yuezhi, Wang Hui, mainly, regarding theories of neoliberal conspiracy on Bo's downfall and what they consider the unfulfilled promise of the CQ model.Happy monsoon day 19:44, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Well this certainly sounds very interesting so I'd say be bold. Colipon+(Talk) 12:57, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

hah! I can't tell if you're being somewhat tongue-in-cheek - but anyway, they are published in what I believe count as reliable sources (Monthly Review?) so let me collect them together a bit and make a section for that. it's just about getting this perspective on the record really. (though at the same time, there are actual economists who don't think the CQ model was really any different than a hypertrophied version of 'the China model' - probably would be good to has that out a little too.)Happy monsoon day 16:35, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

I would be most interested to see someone analyze Bo's policies in Chongqing and Xi's current policies in China as a whole. Colipon+(Talk) 20:01, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Maoist party

Epoch Times is not a reliable source. DOR (HK) (talk) 13:29, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

The Epoch Times certainly has its angle, but then again so does the Xinhua News Agency, Fox News, and the SCMP, all of which are references in this entry. Annacoluthon (talk) 22:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

The four sources you name are not quite in the same category. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 18:06, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Is he dead?

According to some Chinese sources, he might be dead. Please confirm

https://m.creaders.net/news/page/988075 MetaTalks (talk) 08:54, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

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