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| action1 = AfD | ||
| action1date = 17 October 2024 | |||
| result = '''withdrawn by nominator''' | |||
| action1link = Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Killing_of_Yahya_Sinwar | |||
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| action1result = withdrawn | |||
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| itndate = 17 October 2024 | |||
| itnlink = Special:Diff/1251763086 | |||
|action2 = GAN | |||
|action2date = 05:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
|action2link = Talk:Killing of Yahya Sinwar/GA1 | |||
|action2result = failed | |||
|action2oldid = 1254872617 | |||
|currentstatus = FGAN | |||
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== MBC "controversy" == | |||
], the article currently describes a "controversy" where "certain groups" were outraged by MBC's labelling of Sinwar as a terrorist, after which their office in Iraq was stormed by militias and their license was revoked by the government. | |||
This style of coverage is not supported at all by the AP source, and I don't have access to the other one. According to AP, militias stormed a media HQ to protest their publications. Hours later, the Iraqi government revoked their operating license. That's it. There was no "controversy" leading up to this point, and it never went beyond the militias and the Iraqi government. "Certain groups" are not mentioned. | |||
Of further concern is that the section does not mention the likely primary reason for the militia's actions, '''which is not Sinwar''', but instead that the report '''called a deputy commander of an Iraqi militia a terrorist'''. Most likely, this is ''way'' more pertinent as a piece of information regarding this incident. | |||
Considering Sinwar's ultimate irrelevance, I believe this section should be removed. However, even if it's not removed, it absolutely should be reworded. ] (]) 06:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:While I don't agree with each and every word in your analysis (obviously the airing of the report was controversial), I do agree that it doesn't belong in this article since there is no connection between the report and the subject of this article other than proximity in time. However, the content fits very nicely into the article about ]. ] (]) 14:03, 27 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Edit at Killing of Yahya Sinwar == | |||
{{Moved discussion from|User talk:Abo Yemen#Edit at Killing of Yahya Sinwar| ''']]''' 05:24, 22 October 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
Use of the word "spokesman" in the article, without naming the "spokespman", is the same wording used by the ], reference on which the content is based. I don't know if ] was intended to convey a broader message beyond Misplaced Pages, but it certainly highlights that the reference practices shoddy journalism, yet ]. ] (]) 18:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:@]: what are you on about? Im pretty sure the houthi's "spokesman"'s name was mentioned in other sources hence i added the who tag. Plus the who tag doesn't question the reliablity of the reference. Anyways thanks for assuming good faith ''']]''' 03:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
::How do we know that the Houthis have only one "spokesman"? Al Jazeera should have named the spokesman that they quoted, and your addition of the <nowiki>{{who}}</nowiki> template drives home that point. ] (]) 05:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::I never said any of that? You're discrediting Al-Jazeera on your own now ''']]''' 05:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:This started with the addition of a {{tl|who}} tag. The name of the spokesman has been added. The issue has been resolved. —] 16:12, 25 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Good work, {{u|Alalch E.}}. The new reference you added allows for the addition of more content. See ]. ] (]) 18:07, 25 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 October 2024 == | |||
{{edit extended-protected|Killing of Yahya Sinwar|answered=yes}} | |||
Change | |||
Killed in the Israel-Hamas war | |||
== Pics == | |||
to | |||
Hi. Im from Israel. On news channel appeared pics confirming body of dead Sinwar, so he is 100% dead. Can add this to article? ] (]) 15:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{notdone}} Please provide sources on this ''']]''' 15:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I'm not defending Sinwar or anything, but I find it a bit jarring that this page was created before his death was even officially confirmed. If Israel ultimately denies his death, Misplaced Pages will look rather silly. :) ] (]) 16:16, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Sources on his death already exist and if for the highly unlikely chance that it appears that this is just IDF propaganda, we can just AfD this article ''']]''' 16:45, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Yes of course, but I just find it surprising that we created this article before we could even be sure (as I write it has been confirmed so that's fine) ] (]) 17:24, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::Welcome to the milhist side of[REDACTED] ''']]''' 17:31, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
killed in the Israel Genocide against Palestinians | |||
== Article name == | |||
source: | |||
Should the term ''Assassination'' be used instead of ''Killing''? ''']]''' 15:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203454 ] (]) 17:52, 23 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:We also have the flowchart at ], which goes into some detail and can be useful for these situations - there is no mention (and thusly no consensus, on that page anyways) for use of "Assassination" - the bar for that would be significant use of the term in reliable sources, as noted in this essay: ] ] 16:06, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{not done}}: Misplaced Pages articles maintain a neutral point of view and impartial tone. ] (]) 18:25, 23 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:: |
:]: Oh and before you go please read wikipedia's policy of keeping a ]. Yes, it is a genocide <s>but we have to present the subject in a manner where supporters of either side would read this and wouldn't feel the need to attack[REDACTED] on twitter or whatever app you use.</s> ''']]''' 18:41, 23 October 2024 (UTC) | ||
::], we don't accept or reject proposed edits based on whether or not readers would attack Misplaced Pages on social media but based on reliable sources and editor consensus. Your first sentence was correct but your second one is based on your opinion. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 01:26, 25 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::We should check the rationale which led to choosing the name ] and see which name would be more fitting here. ] (]) 16:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::my bad ''']]''' 05:41, 25 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Use of the term assassination typically requires the target to have been tracked down and the people doing the killing to know the identity of who they're going after at the time of the killing. Everything so far indicates that some Israeli soldiers got in a gunfight with some unidentified Hamas fighters, killed three, and when checking the bodies realized one might be Sinwar. | |||
::If they had gone in knowing it was Sinwar then the word assassination would make sense, but only learning he was there from identifying his body after the fact would negate most common uses of the term. ] (]) 19:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Agree. Moreover, if the term "assassination" is not used for the article about bin Laden's death even though the Americans were definitely going after him, then it shouldn't be used for this article either. ] (]) 19:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Assassination implies a targeted killing of a particular individual, this however was completely coincidental as the IDF had no previous information about sinwar's presence nor was the operation carried out specifically with the intention of eliminating him ] (]) 01:20, 18 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== |
== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2024 == | ||
{{edit extended-protected|Killing of Yahya Sinwar|answered=yes}} | |||
the article claims the DNA has been confirmed to be Sinwar, it cites 2 sources both of which only report that testing is to take place. Neither claim there ist confirmation by DNA this should be corrected ] (]) 15:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
I found the name of the Houthi spokesman who made the statement about Sinwar's death, which is a suggested edit. The spokesman is Yahya Saree. | |||
:] '''Not done''': it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:EEp --> ''']]''' 15:58, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
Source: <ref>https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sylt4ffxye</ref> ] (]) 13:08, 24 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Assassination == | |||
*{{not done}} Not verifiable, contrary to what is verifiable, and ]. The Ynet source mentions that one person said something, while our article quotes a different statement, without naming the person who made it. Going by the Ynet source, there is no evidence that the person associated with the quote in the Ynet article is the maker of the different statement quoted in our article. What can actually be verified is that that the Houthi spokesperson who made the statement quoted in our article is a different spokesperson from the one quoted by Ynet (). Two statements, each made by a different spokesperson. Pinging ] to see this as a useful example of something that illustrates well why have the policies ] and ].—] 15:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:Not so fast. While we cannot use this reference as suggested, the reference still has valuable content that can be ]. --] (]) 13:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{talkreflist}} | |||
Killing of Yahya Sinwar > ''Assassination of Yahya Sinwar'' ] (]) 16:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{Not done}}: please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:EEp --> ''']]''' 16:09, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:See my comment above under '''Article name''' ] 16:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
::sorry for duplicate ] (]) 16:18, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== |
== Vague assertion == | ||
{{Moved discussion from|User talk:Abo Yemen#Analysis section| ''']]''' 16:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
Please restore the "Analysis" section as it has been confirmed that Sinwar is the dead person who was photographed. ] (]) 16:15, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Done. ]<span style="background-color:white; color:#808080;">&</span>] 20:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
"Some in Israel characterized the imagery as showing defeat, while Sinwar's supporters interpreted his conduct as emblematic of defiance. " | |||
== Location of Sinwar’s death. == | |||
Some: who? characterized it?' | |||
Coordinates are listed to be in central Rafah. He died in a building in Tel Al Sultan, in 31.3055, 34.2467 | |||
Sinwar's supporters: whom? | |||
] (]) 20:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 October 2024 == | |||
source: ] (]) 03:24, 18 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{edit extended-protected|Killing of Yahya Sinwar|answered=yes}} | |||
== Executed > Killed == | |||
Article refers to David Halperin, CEO of Israel Policy Forum. David A. Halperin is indeed CEO of that organization, but the article erroneously links to the wiki article for David M. Halperin, an American social theorist with no ties to the Israel Policy Forum. ] (]) 04:10, 29 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Please remove the erroneous link ] (]) 04:10, 29 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
It is inappropriate to say that he was "executed". He was killed in a firefight. ] (]) 04:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{done}}<!-- Template:EEp --> ] (]) 19:41, 29 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{Talk:Killing of Yahya Sinwar/GA1}} |
Latest revision as of 05:03, 20 January 2025
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Killing of Yahya Sinwar article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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MBC "controversy"
In the relevant section, the article currently describes a "controversy" where "certain groups" were outraged by MBC's labelling of Sinwar as a terrorist, after which their office in Iraq was stormed by militias and their license was revoked by the government.
This style of coverage is not supported at all by the AP source, and I don't have access to the other one. According to AP, militias stormed a media HQ to protest their publications. Hours later, the Iraqi government revoked their operating license. That's it. There was no "controversy" leading up to this point, and it never went beyond the militias and the Iraqi government. "Certain groups" are not mentioned.
Of further concern is that the section does not mention the likely primary reason for the militia's actions, which is not Sinwar, but instead that the report called a deputy commander of an Iraqi militia a terrorist. Most likely, this is way more pertinent as a piece of information regarding this incident.
Considering Sinwar's ultimate irrelevance, I believe this section should be removed. However, even if it's not removed, it absolutely should be reworded. Dieknon (talk) 06:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- While I don't agree with each and every word in your analysis (obviously the airing of the report was controversial), I do agree that it doesn't belong in this article since there is no connection between the report and the subject of this article other than proximity in time. However, the content fits very nicely into the article about MBC Group. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 14:03, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
Edit at Killing of Yahya Sinwar
Moved from User talk:Abo Yemen § Edit at Killing of Yahya Sinwar – Abo Yemen✉ 05:24, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Use of the word "spokesman" in the article, without naming the "spokespman", is the same wording used by the Al Jazeera, reference on which the content is based. I don't know if your edit was intended to convey a broader message beyond Misplaced Pages, but it certainly highlights that the reference practices shoddy journalism, yet is considered by the Misplaced Pages community as a reliable source. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 18:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- @The Mountain of Eden: what are you on about? Im pretty sure the houthi's "spokesman"'s name was mentioned in other sources hence i added the who tag. Plus the who tag doesn't question the reliablity of the reference. Anyways thanks for assuming good faith Abo Yemen✉ 03:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- How do we know that the Houthis have only one "spokesman"? Al Jazeera should have named the spokesman that they quoted, and your addition of the {{who}} template drives home that point. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 05:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- I never said any of that? You're discrediting Al-Jazeera on your own now Abo Yemen✉ 05:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- How do we know that the Houthis have only one "spokesman"? Al Jazeera should have named the spokesman that they quoted, and your addition of the {{who}} template drives home that point. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 05:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- This started with the addition of a {{who}} tag. The name of the spokesman has been added. The issue has been resolved. —Alalch E. 16:12, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
- Good work, Alalch E.. The new reference you added allows for the addition of more content. See this edit. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 18:07, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 October 2024
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change
Killed in the Israel-Hamas war
to
killed in the Israel Genocide against Palestinians
source:
https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203454 CDLFC (talk) 17:52, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: Misplaced Pages articles maintain a neutral point of view and impartial tone. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:25, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- CDLFC: Oh and before you go please read wikipedia's policy of keeping a WP:Neutral Point of View. Yes, it is a genocide
but we have to present the subject in a manner where supporters of either side would read this and wouldn't feel the need to attack[REDACTED] on twitter or whatever app you use.Abo Yemen✉ 18:41, 23 October 2024 (UTC)- Abo Yemen, we don't accept or reject proposed edits based on whether or not readers would attack Misplaced Pages on social media but based on reliable sources and editor consensus. Your first sentence was correct but your second one is based on your opinion. Liz 01:26, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2024
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I found the name of the Houthi spokesman who made the statement about Sinwar's death, which is a suggested edit. The spokesman is Yahya Saree.
Source: Mbrs128 (talk) 13:08, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- Not done Not verifiable, contrary to what is verifiable, and WP:SYNTH. The Ynet source mentions that one person said something, while our article quotes a different statement, without naming the person who made it. Going by the Ynet source, there is no evidence that the person associated with the quote in the Ynet article is the maker of the different statement quoted in our article. What can actually be verified is that that the Houthi spokesperson who made the statement quoted in our article is a different spokesperson from the one quoted by Ynet (Ahram Online). Two statements, each made by a different spokesperson. Pinging User:Mbrs128 to see this as a useful example of something that illustrates well why have the policies Misplaced Pages:No original research and WP:Verifiability.—Alalch E. 15:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
- Not so fast. While we cannot use this reference as suggested, the reference still has valuable content that can be added to the article. --The Mountain of Eden (talk) 13:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
References
Vague assertion
"Some in Israel characterized the imagery as showing defeat, while Sinwar's supporters interpreted his conduct as emblematic of defiance. "
Some: who? characterized it?' Sinwar's supporters: whom?
User:Pedant (talk) 20:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 October 2024
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Article refers to David Halperin, CEO of Israel Policy Forum. David A. Halperin is indeed CEO of that organization, but the article erroneously links to the wiki article for David M. Halperin, an American social theorist with no ties to the Israel Policy Forum. Henrywdaniels (talk) 04:10, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Please remove the erroneous link Henrywdaniels (talk) 04:10, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Done Skynxnex (talk) 19:41, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
GA Review
Unsuccessful. The Blue Rider 05:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Killing of Yahya Sinwar/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Nominator: Abo Yemen (talk · contribs) 08:45, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: The Blue Rider (talk · contribs) 05:42, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
- Per WP:GAI, I will quick-fail the article as a drive-by nomination since the nominator isn't ranked at 6th or higher in authorship nor his the author of at least 10% of the article. The Blue Rider 05:53, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment not the reviewer, but I really have reservations about GA-ing any article on an event that happened less than a month ago. It's impossible to give a complete picture of this event so shortly after it happened, so I don't think at this stage it's even POSSIBLE to pass this on the "major aspects" criterion. This happened less than a month ago! I personally would quickfail this, as it is impossible at this stage to write an article that matches our standards (and I was going to, but someone beat me to the review). PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:49, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
- @PARAKANYAA: IMHO I didn't think that it would get reviewed this quick (I taught that it might take two months to get noticed in the first place, just like most articles do) but as far as i can see reporting on his death stopped about 2 weeks ago and we have a relatively good article Abo Yemen✉ 05:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
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