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Talk:United Nations Security Council Resolution 242: Difference between revisions

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== Useless Map ==
== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 February 2017 ==
The "Map of territories occupied by Israel, Date 22 November 1967" accompanying this article makes no sense at all. It excludes the Sinai and it does not explain what the coloring means at all. ] (]) 21:43, 24 November 2020 (UTC)


I came to say the same. It is extremely odd as the conquest of Sinai was a principal cause of international shock. Among other things the area is twice the size of Israel + Gaza + Golan Heights + West Bank and extended up to the Suez canal. There is a good map that is used for the the ] ] articles. It makes sense to use it here as well.
== Non-binding ==
The adjective "non-binding" was added to the intro in this diff: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242&diff=752287367&oldid=736689089 It is true that the resolution is non-binding but so are almost all SC resolutions. I don't think it adds anything to the lead and could confuse the reader to believe that this resolution ''in particular'' is non-binding.


I'm not sure how to get it to render in non-gigantic size, so I will just link it.
I also want to point out that Misplaced Pages has an article for almost every single SC resolution and the adjective "non-binding" isn't used in any of them. I therefore suggest that the adjective be removed from this article. ] (]) 22:03, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:6DayWarEnglish.png


⚫ ] (]) 23:55, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
== External links modified ==


:Snap! It's misleading because to put the resolution in context it needs to show the territories occupied to which the resolution's calling for de-occupation refers, the Sinai first. How can we change it? ] (]) 15:36, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
::It's also misleading because it misrepresents which territories were occupied.
::Resolution 242 is absolutely explicit that conflict does not move international boundaries, so the Gaza Strip annexed by Egypt and the West Bank annexed by Jordan after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War were occupied territories reclaimed during the Six Day War.
::Sinai and the Golan became territories occupied by Israel, and the resolution demands their return. ] (]) 19:45, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
::: Love that "reclaimed". Sorry but your personal analysis is off-topic in addition to being wrong. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:31, 8 November 2023 (UTC)


== Preamble ==
I have just modified 2 external links on ]. Please take a moment to review ]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080306021217/http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/cec8d84e2fe2c0d285256e3d006a820b!OpenDocument to http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/cec8d84e2fe2c0d285256e3d006a820b!OpenDocument
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110112025712/http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1681.pdf to http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1681.pdf


If I understand the preamble correctly, "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war" means that the 1948 Arab-Israeli War did not change the Mandate boundaries. ] (]) 13:40, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.


== Introduction ==
{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}


The introduction doesn’t tell me what the resolution is actually about. ] (]) 16:43, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 07:56, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


==Edit Request==
== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2019 ==
⚫ {{Edit extended-protected|answered=yes}}


<!--Don't remove anything above this line.-->
{{edit extended-protected|United Nations Security Council Resolution 242|answered=yes}}
Link "PLO" to "https://en.wikipedia.org/Palestine_Liberation_Organization" ] (]) 20:21, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
:] '''Done'''<!-- Template:EEp --> – ] (]) 04:40, 21 May 2019 (UTC)




* '''What I think should be changed (format using {{tl|textdiff}})''':
== Palestinian rejection ==
The lede includes the following sentence, which is unsourced and not covered in the main body: “The ] (PLO) in its ] adopted in 1974 rejected Resolution 242, with the rejection repeated by the ] in 1977.”


The text "Secretary of State Dean Rusk" should be amended to "The United States secretary of state Dean Rusk"
Does anyone have a source for this? We need to explain exactly what part of the resolution they rejected, if any, in order to put it in its proper context.


* '''Why it should be changed''':
⚫ ] (]) 22:03, 27 February 2020 (UTC)


There is no context indicating that this is a USA secretary of state.
:I'm not familiar with the specifics, I had thought the PLO was against 242 from the beginning. Later on, the objection was mainly based on the Palestinians being portrayed as nothing more than refugees.] (]) 12:41, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
:See below.--] (]) 12:59, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
::
:::As an aside, pretty sure Arafat signed on to 242 in 1988.] (]) 15:42, 28 February 2020 (UTC)


* '''References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button)''':
:I reinstated the text with sources.<ref>https://books.google.com.tr/books?id=8CiNDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT100&dq=Ten+Point+Program+PLO+rejected+242&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Ten%20Point%20Program%20PLO%20rejected%20242&f=false Jordan's Palestinian Challenge, 1948-1983: A Political History By Clinton Bailey</ref><ref>{{cite book|last1=Tucker|first1=Spencer C.|last2=Roberts|first2=Priscilla|title=The Encyclopedia of the Arab-Israeli Conflict|edition=1st|publisher=ABC-CLIO|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=YAd8efHdVzIC&pg=PA1335 |year=2008 |page=1335 |isbn=978-1-85109-841-5}}</ref> Article 1 of the 10-point program is the rejection of 242 as the basis for Arab or international dealings.--] (]) 21:14, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
::Hi {{ping| Chuka Chief}} I think this is a little hasty. I have just been reading what is considered one of the best sourced books on the subject – Avi Rai’s ''The Bride and the Dowry'', which chronicles the period from June 67 to October 68 in detail. . The sentence you added back, together with the subsequent quote we have from Israel, is used as a pro-Israeli talking point in order to support their theme of long-term “Palestinian rejectionism”. But the out-of-context juxtaposition of these two facts creates a misleading picture. In reality, the PLO were irrelevant actors at the time. It was the West Bank Palestinian leadership who mattered, and they made a consistent effort to make peace with Israel until they were blocked by the Israelis. Israel’s interest in land-for-peace stretched only to the Egyptian and Syrian areas. The Israeli government were at no point willing to give back the West Bank.
::All of which is why things like this should not be in the lede until they are properly dealt with in the main body of the article (as required per ]).
⚫ ::] (]) 21:51, 28 February 2020 (UTC)


https://en.wikipedia.org/Dean_Rusk
== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 February 2020 ==


] (]) 23:20, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
⚫ {{edit extended-protected|answered=yes}}
<!--Don't remove anything below this line-->
Please restore with the following source to back it up:
{{reftalk}}

⚫ :Done... - ] (]) 23:51, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
<ref>{{cite book |last=Brynen |first=Rex |title=Sanctuary And Survival: The Plo In Lebanon |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=lAeiDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT82&dq=un+resolution+242+rejected+by+1974+PLO+ten+points&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwierZG5mPTnAhW1qHEKHa8RDqoQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=un%20resolution%20242%20rejected%20by%201974%20PLO%20ten%20points&f=false|publisher=Westview Press |year=1990 |page= |isbn=0813379199}}</ref>

Thanks--] (]) 12:59, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

::It was objected to not only because of it being unsourced but because it is not in the article body (stuff in the lead needs to be in the body and the lead is a summary of the important points of the body). Where would you want to put it in the body? After that we can see whether that is a sufficient importance to make it into the lead. I want to think a bit more but my first reaction is that 1974 seems arbitrary. As I know it (I need to check), 242 was opposed by the PLO right from the outset not just from 1974 and then later they relaxed their opposition.] (]) 13:59, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

:::In fact, just following the given wikilink to the 10 point plan, it says in there "...only repeated the principles of the policies which the Palestinian National Council had accepted in the past: the denial of United Nations Security Council Resolution 242". So, while WP is not in itself a source, that accords with what I had thought, that the rejection does not date from 1974; on the contrary, that date might be looked at more as a date when the PLO began to think about relaxing their objection to it.] (]) 14:59, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
::::Also, I couldn't find any reference to the Steadfastness and Confrontation Front in the ref you gave, maybe it is on another page? ] (]) 15:05, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
:::::Per my comment in the above thread just now, I agree it is true that the PLO rejected it. They did so by definition, as they had been founded only a few years earlier on what was then an extremist platform. What I hadn’t realized is that at that point they represented mostly refugee Palestinians, not the people on the ground in the West Bank. Which makes their rejection entirely logical, but needs to be put in its proper context. ] (]) 21:56, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
:] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a ] for this alteration ''']''' using the {{tlx|edit extended-protected}} template.<!-- Template:EEp --> ] ] ] 17:27, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

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Useless Map

The "Map of territories occupied by Israel, Date 22 November 1967" accompanying this article makes no sense at all. It excludes the Sinai and it does not explain what the coloring means at all. Brasselimburg (talk) 21:43, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

I came to say the same. It is extremely odd as the conquest of Sinai was a principal cause of international shock. Among other things the area is twice the size of Israel + Gaza + Golan Heights + West Bank and extended up to the Suez canal. There is a good map that is used for the the Six-Day War Israeli_occupation_of_the_Sinai_Peninsula articles. It makes sense to use it here as well.

I'm not sure how to get it to render in non-gigantic size, so I will just link it.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:6DayWarEnglish.png 

Isak Rubin (talk) 23:55, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Snap! It's misleading because to put the resolution in context it needs to show the territories occupied to which the resolution's calling for de-occupation refers, the Sinai first. How can we change it? JonathanMeldrum1975 (talk) 15:36, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
It's also misleading because it misrepresents which territories were occupied.
Resolution 242 is absolutely explicit that conflict does not move international boundaries, so the Gaza Strip annexed by Egypt and the West Bank annexed by Jordan after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War were occupied territories reclaimed during the Six Day War.
Sinai and the Golan became territories occupied by Israel, and the resolution demands their return. AJRT1 (talk) 19:45, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
Love that "reclaimed". Sorry but your personal analysis is off-topic in addition to being wrong. Zero 10:31, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Preamble

If I understand the preamble correctly, "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war" means that the 1948 Arab-Israeli War did not change the Mandate boundaries. AJRT1 (talk) 13:40, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Introduction

The introduction doesn’t tell me what the resolution is actually about. 76.149.87.68 (talk) 16:43, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.


  • What I think should be changed (format using {{textdiff}}):

The text "Secretary of State Dean Rusk" should be amended to "The United States secretary of state Dean Rusk"

  • Why it should be changed:

There is no context indicating that this is a USA secretary of state.

  • References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

https://en.wikipedia.org/Dean_Rusk

187.92.78.179 (talk) 23:20, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

References

Done... - Adolphus79 (talk) 23:51, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
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