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Revision as of 08:50, 2 May 2007

Red Tomato and Cross section

Beautifully ripe tomatoes purchased believe it or not from Safeway. Excellent enc value

Appears (surprise surprise!) in Tomato

• Support Self Nom. --Fir0002 08:28, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
• Comment. I won't vote on this (it would get lost in a sea of "supports" whatever I did), but I just want to point out that these photographs may be highly informative about certain aspects of a tomato (it's red with a squishy interior), but I find them incredibly anaemic. Additionally, I think the encyclopaedic value of it is compromised entirely by the lack of scale information and total lack of context. How do they grow? Do they pop up from a white table plump and ripe? Basically, technically competent, otherwise bereft. --Vaelta 08:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
• Support original To the comment above, this is the "finished product" shot. How they grow can be covered in another image.--HereToHelp 10:29, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• But you don't give any justification why this photograph is one of the "finest images on the..." --Vaelta 10:36, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose. Having looked at the tomato article I have to oppose this photo. While it IS the most appropriate image to use as the title image, being simple and clean, nothing about this image deserves to be "featured", and it is considerable less "encyclopaedic" than many others on the same page. Just below, for instance, is a small group of tomatoes on a plate: it's not flashy but it does the job of showing scale and variety. Secondly, another of the photos further below (perhaps far too small to be a featured picture) is of tomato slices with light shining through, taken, surprisingly, by a US government agency (it seems). I found this picture to be more interesting than this featured picture candidate. --Vaelta 10:33, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• I'm sorry Vaelta, but that image you brought from the article is simply awful. Unsharp, blown reds, terrible specimens the list goes on and on.... --Fir0002 22:22, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose I'm completely with Vaelta- is this "Among Misplaced Pages's best work"? I'd argue that it's not. The image is fine, but there's nothing "featured-worthy" about it. -- Kicking222 13:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Please vote according to the criteria, in what respect is this image not fulfilling the criteria? --Fir0002 06:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

users first vote on FPC --Fir0002 06:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose because although the tomato may be red, it is not properly ripe. A good tomato should not have such grainy and pale flesh. It's a good photo of an unappetizing tomato. Mak (talk) 15:42, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• Comment on myself - I just want to mention that I strongly support high quality encyclopedic images of every day objects. It's just that I have this thing about not-really ripe tomatos :( Mak (talk) 15:56, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• Please check your monitor calibration, on mine it comes across as a vivid and full ripe red. --Fir0002 22:20, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• The outside is bright red, I'm talking about the inner flesh. It's also the wrong texture. Maybe it's just because I'm from NJ where we have real tomatos :) Mak (talk) 22:28, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• Well I've never even in home grown "real" tomatoes seen the inner texture be anything other in appearance than what is pictured here. What about other people? At any rate just because it doesn't look the same as the species you're used to, it is fully representative of the species in Australia, and hence I can't see any reason for you to object to the image. I mean saying it's not like the tomatoes you have is like opposing an Australian ant photo because it's not like the ants you have in NJ. Please reconsider --Fir0002 06:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

• The original is technically great (the alternative is crap in comparison), and it sure is a valuable contribution to show the tomato fruit. But I'd say this is rather a QI than an FP. That stream of opposes comes across pretty hard though. The pic deservers a little more appreciation. This scan is pretty good too by the way. --Dschwen 15:45, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• I like that scan: on the vine with flowers. May I ask what "QI" is? Quality Image? If so, I would agree that this candidate is most certainly a "quality" image, just nothing especially noteworthy. It's not something I would have as my desktop certainly, and how I first came to know about Misplaced Pages's featured pictures is because I found myself downloading them to use as desktop wallpapers... --Vaelta 15:51, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• This is just so bizarre, suddenly FPC has become "pretty pictures". I can't comprehend the double standards that are currently being used on FPC, from this near identical candidate: Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates/Image:Red capsicum and cross section.jpg to what is happening here. Does enc not matter any more? Is it all "would I use this as my wallpaper?". We are an encyclopedia for crying out loud!!! It really makes you wonder why we went to so much trouble developing the criteria when new voters such as Vaelta either haven't bothered to read them or vote in flagrant disregard to the standards set forth there. --Fir0002 22:20, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• Yeah, it is a bit troublesome that enc seems to be on the retreat. I guess the nomination closers should pay attention to the votes and weigh the arguments with respect to the criteria. --Dschwen 22:46, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• Well, in that case you have me: I personally would have expected "featured pictures" to have a bit of wow factor about them. I know all the ones that made me keep coming back to Misplaced Pages did, and frankly, there is nothing wow about a couple of tomatoes (or bell peppers either for that matter...). However, if I really am voting in the wrong fashion then I accept I am wrong and Misplaced Pages is obviously not for me, as I do think that if you are to "feature" a picture it should have something special about it. I think my favourite in the current list of candidates is the flying Canadian goose below: technically it's a bit of a train wreck, but I can look at with an interest that two tomatoes fail to generate. --87.127.126.177 edit: Sorry, forgot to logon, Vaelta. 23:07, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• Vaelta, I think perhaps you're unclear about the purpose of Featured Pictures. A featured picture is intended to be an example of Misplaced Pages's best images; since Misplaced Pages is an encyclopaedia, rather than a coffee-top photography book, the strongest emphasis we place is on encyclopaedic value - what does the image add the articles in which it appears, which helps the reader to better understand/appreciate the subject? If you want images which make great wallpaper, there are literally hundreds of sites dedicated specifically to that purpose, but Misplaced Pages isn't one of them. That's not to say that some of our photos don't make great desktops, but that's not why they're featured pictures. Now, I'm going to vote Weak Oppose to this picture (and I would have done the same for the bell pepper and for the walnut, if I'd been about - not that it would have made any difference...) because it doesn't actually tell me all that much about tomatoes - the vine photo does a better job, with the flowers and vine adding a great deal to the enc. I wouldn't support that one either, though, because the technical quality (composition, particularly) is only average, the tomato blends in too much with the background, and it's covered in a scary amount of dust (do people not look at these things before they scan them!?). My point is, though, that to be a featured picture an image doesn't have to make me go "wow, awesome, must have that as my wallpaper", it has to inform me about the subject, be technically excellent (except where there are mitigating circumstances) and, as a bonus, grab my attention. "Artistic" compositions and shooting techniques like those you're advocating are great if the aim is to produce art, but here the aim is to illustrate a reference work and the criteria that determine excellence are necessarily different. --YFB ¿ 00:35, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

• Weak oppose - per above comment. --YFB ¿ 00:35, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
• Support. Fir, don't forget about WP:BITE. Call this a wolf vote, but I still think these setups are technically great shots (most certainly Quality Images) that also have a great deal of enc. They show both the full view and the cross section, and at an extremely crisp resolution. There's only so much you can show in an image, and I don't think these images should be denied featured status because there is another way they could be taken. To me, it comes across as a generic photograph of an elephant being denied featured status because the animal isn't interacting with its environment. I think either way, a person unfamiliar with the subject can tell what it was by simply glancing at the photograph. --Tewy 02:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

• Is a "sheep" vote better than a "wolf" vote then? And don't worry about biting me, because I am more than happy to bite back if provoked correctly. And I'd be happy to admit that I am glad some other people agree with my opinion that these "product" shots are nothing special. --Vaelta 08:50, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

• support - please indicate in your nomination which article is illustrated by the image. Debivort 04:28, 2 May 2007 (UTC)