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Revision as of 14:39, 3 September 2007 view sourceA Nobody (talk \| contribs)53,000 edits →Alternative sites that will accept trivia: reply← Previous edit		Revision as of 00:14, 6 September 2007 view source RobJ1981 (talk \| contribs)32,546 edits Response to recent AFD commentNext edit →
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	:::You're welcome. We're having relatives come over around 1PM for chicken. Best, --<font face="Times New Roman">]</font><sup>'']''</sup> 14:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)		:::You're welcome. We're having relatives come over around 1PM for chicken. Best, --<font face="Times New Roman">]</font><sup>'']''</sup> 14:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

			==Response to recent AFD comment==

			Your comment here: ] is incorrect. The article does indeed violate policies (as stated by Corvus cornix:], ], ] and ]). Read up on policies, instead of just assuming things aren't violating anything. ] 00:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 00:14, 6 September 2007

A Nobody is suffering from physical health issues. This may affect their ability to work on Misplaced Pages. Consequently, they may not be able to respond to talk-page messages or e-mails in a timely manner. Your patience is greatly appreciated.

Welcome to my talk page! Please be sure to make all posts civil and constructive, as I'll revert anything I deem to be vandalism. Also, let us try to keep two-way conversations readable. If you post to my talk page, I will just reply here. If I posted recently to another talk page, including your talk page, then that means I have it on my watchlist and will just read responses there. I may refactor discussions to your talk page for the same reason. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles

Past comments can be seen here.

Welcome!

Hello, A Nobody, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

For help on how one should assess whether an article ought to be on Misplaced Pages, please see WP:N, WP:POINT, and WP:NOT. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Kavadi carrier 03:29, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome and have a pleasant week! :) --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 05:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

My constructive comments on AfD pages

I stand by my comments and votes. I only posted the "keeps" on ones that I thought should be kept. I cannot bring myself to vote negative, because I know someone must have spent time writing any given article. Moreover, I really do think some are being too quick to delete articles. If NOBODY sees merit in an article, well okay, but if even a couple of people find an article useful and intriguing, keeping it is less likely to do harm than not having it. Seriously, though, I am noticing a too quick to delete trend, which is unfortunate. In any case, let’s not beat a dead horse on this one. Telling someone something once is usually sufficient. Besides, all of the specific articles, I thought should be kept and not every single "keep" post of mine was identical as some erroneously alleged. Sure, many were, but there was some variation and after the first message on my talk page, I made any new "keep" messages more precise. Beating the same point to death after the message has been received is well . . . Have a pleasant week and best regards, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 00:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

For more on this topic and discussion, please go to http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29#Too_quick_to_delete.3F__Concerns_with_AfD_trends

Merci

Grand Roi,

Merci beaucoup pour votre comments concerné La Chatham Chorale. J'apprécie sincèrement votre appui, et Je crois aussi cela une chorale, c'est bon, particulièrement celui-là, ils ont rendu la musique classique accessible pour tout le monde de Cape Cod. Encore, merci! (Et je suis desole, mais mon francais n'est tres bon) Knowing Is Half The Battle 00:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC) (Savoir est demi de la batille)

De rien! (And I speak English, so English is always fine! Good luck keeping your article! :)) Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 00:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

A history link

Since some people seem to be obsessed with the idea of being able to peer into your messages I have added a link to a version of this page which contained them. Regards, Kavadi carrier 04:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Dear Kavadi carrier,

Thank you, I appreciate the effort at a constructive compromise. I really think the whole thing was getting out of hand. You'll notice that after the initial comments from you and a few others, I began a discussion on the Village pump and did NOT merely repeat the same argument for every AfD topic I contrubuted to. It seems that I've had to spend too much time defending my talk page! Anyway, I didn't see why my talk page should be overburdened by a dead issue. So, with that, you're a good Wikipedian! Have a wonderful night! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 04:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Removing notices/Page protection

You may remove material from your talk page, but do not remove administrators notices. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

There old, so aren't they just archived in the history? Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 00:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Normally users are allowed to remove notices. Normally also, indef blocked users are allowed to comment on their own talk page. This has the appearance of attempting to conceal the indef blocked status - which I count as abuse of the privilege. For this reason the user page and user talk page are now protected. Durova 20:24, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Leah LaBelle

If you want this article restored please take it up at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review.—WAvegetarian (talk) 15:55, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the link; I suppose I just don't get why the sudden rampage to delete the pages for American Idol contestants. Considering how many thousands try out for the show and the incredibly high ratings, anyone who actually makes it to the final 12 is a recognizable figure to many and has accomplished something few others have. Plus, I anticipate others just recreating these pages eventually anyway. Finally, because of American Idol video games that include videos of contestants and programs like American Idol Rewind that re-air footage from past seasons with new interviews, the publicity of these individuals has been augmented all the more. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 23:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I graduated high school with Leah. I also put a fair amount of work into the article between correcting factual errors, updating it and general policing. I don't really have a strong opinion either way on the Idol issue, but want to have consistency. That link is the best place to voice your concerns.—WAvegetarian (talk) 21:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thanks again! --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 23:05, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

help us Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles, you're our only hope

I noticed that you had voted to keep the category of Fictional Characters by Superpower on the march 7th CFD. Just in case you didn't yet notice, Raidant!'s decision to listify them was put up for review, and another vote started on the 14th. It seems those of us in favor of keeping the categories are losing the debate, and I was hoping you could lend your voice once more so we can keep them --Piemanmoo 20:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Sure, thing, I'll vote to keep immediately. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 04:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Barnstars

The disco ball of knowledge certifies that you are among the finest contributors in the world of Misplaced Pages, and help it to never stop turning. Thank you for your support of Camila Janniger.

--User:Ejanniger

Thank you! Have a wonderful week!

Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 21:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Indefinite block

This account has been blocked indefinitely as the sockmaster of Wikipedian, Historian, and Friend? for persistent and pernicious disruption at WP:AFD and CAT:PROD. Past history includes attempted vote fixing. Previously blocked for six weeks and warned of impending indef; violated the block by starting the sockpuppet account which became the bad hand sockpuppet for further WP:POINT violations. Durova 05:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I am quite pleased with all of the many positive and constructive contributions that I have made in terms of correcting typos and article creations and despite some frustrations here and there, I know that my time on Misplaced Pages has been well spent in making it a better site. As a final comment, you shouldn't punish the other OSU users who happen to use the same university IP. So, with that, adieu. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 06:58, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Award

Golden WikiAward

I would like to award you the Golden WikiAward for your exceptional contributions to the wiki. --ISOLA'd ELBA 19:13, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the award. I apologize for not knowing you and what exactly the award was for, especially as I've taken a break from actively editing Misplaced Pages for some time now, but I appreciate the kind thought and wish you a wonderful week! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 04:23, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Image:ColumbusOH.gif

Hello Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles, an automated process has found an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, such as fair use. The image (Image:ColumbusOH.gif) was found at the following location: User:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles. This image or media will be removed per statement number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media will be replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg , so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. The image that was replaced will not be automatically deleted, but it could be deleted at a later date. Articles using the same image should not be affected by my edits. I ask you to please not re-add the image to your userpage and could consider finding a replacement image licensed under either the Creative Commons or GFDL license or released to the public domain. Please note that it is possible that the image on your page is included vie a template or usebox. In that case, please find a free image for the template or userbox. Thanks for your attention and cooperation. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 11:17, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:ColumbusOH.gif

Hello. I'm currently blocked indefinitely and therefore cannot remove anything from my userpage. The only way I could do so would be to use some other account and because I've agreed not to do that, I'd rather not risk any new allegations against me. Therefore, if anyone else reads this message from the bot above, please do what the bot requests. Thank you. --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 23:00, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Done. That image was in {{User Columbus}}, but I took care of it. I'm glad you're doing better. WODUP 18:17, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! :) --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 15:59, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. :) WODUP 00:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Name

Hello, Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles! I am a native speaker of both French and English. I wanted to let you know that in the spoken form of French, "Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles" means "The Big King of Dummies! Leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions. Cheers, BigBrotherIsWatchingYou

Really? A French girl told it me it meant "The Great Pumpkin King". --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Unblock

Welcome back to Misplaced Pages. Per our agreement, this will be your only account and you'll tread lightly at AFD. I hope things work out this time. Cheers, Durova 06:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Merci, danke, thank you! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I have a standing offer to give the Resilient Barnstar to any editor who returns from a ban and starts a new article that gets highlighted at Did you know? Durova 18:22, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

How would I do that? Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:36, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Welcome back. Hopefully you will help us write a good encyclopedia. To get into Did you know?, you just need to write a very good new article and either nominate it yourself or have someone else to do it. Best. Wooyi 02:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the welcome back and reply to my question. Have a great weekend! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:49, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

format

I don't think it's a good idea to write

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Hydra_in_popular_culture

when you can write instead

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Hydra in popular culture.

Michael Hardy 19:17, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the suggestion. --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:56, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of List of television characters who are single fathers

I've nominated List of television characters who are single fathers, an article you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but in this particular case I do not feel that List of television characters who are single fathers satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion; I have explained why in the nomination space (see also "What Misplaced Pages is not" and the Misplaced Pages deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of television characters who are single fathers and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of List of television characters who are single fathers during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Corpx 05:40, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the notice; I'll reply there. --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 15:01, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

You and Corpx

I can't help but notice that it seems like you're following Corpx around, particularly on AFDs. I was willing to chalk it up to coincidence, but every edit you've made today has been to an article where Corpx has made an edit or to a page where Corpx has commented on the AFD.

Can you explain this? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:33, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello. No, I am not following him around. I have randomly participated in some of these discussions today and have tried to improve a couple articles, but it has nothing to do with any one editor. It does seem, by contrast, that you may have taken an interest in me (see and ), which I hope isn't the case. Either way, have a pleasant day! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 17:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Um. Are you saying I got involved in the Seven day roguelike AFD because you edited it? Are you sure? Are you really sure? Are you really, really sure?

I noticed your editing pattern when I looked at your contribs, which I typically do for people I don't recognize on AFD. (AFDs attract socks and SPAs.) The pattern seemed weird when you were commenting only to AFDs Corpx had commented on, after Corpx had commented. I'm willing to accept that it's just a harmless coincidence. It just seemed odd to me. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:55, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay. I haven't edited in a couple months, which is why you probably didn't recognize me. Anyway, I'll avoid the whole AfDs for the time being and will focus on random article improvements instead. I hadn't participated in those things in a while and I wanted to participate in just a few to show that I could contribute constructively to the discussions without getting frustrated and all. Thanks for the willingness to accept coincidence and have a pleasant day! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 17:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Adopt help request

To whoever reads this, I have been away for a while. Durova suggested that I request an editor mentor me through the adoption program. I added the adopt tag to my userpage, but I don't know how long it takes for someone to reply. I want to contribute constructively to Misplaced Pages and would greatly appreciate if someone would be willing to help me do so and if anyone at least knows how long it takes for someone to be willing to come along. Thanks! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 18:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

There's no set time period. Basically, you wait until someone comes along looking for someone to adopt and chooses you. Considering it's summer, that may take awhile. John Carter 19:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for the reply. I guess I'll just be patient. I appreciate it! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:13, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi! You can have a look through the list of adopters here, and get in contact (via their talk page) with one of them, and see if that want to take you on. Alternatively, just sit there, and wait for someone to see the tag who is willing to help, then adopt you. If you want to start contributing right away, you could look through the list of adopters, or have a look at the Tutorial. :) -- Stwalkerster talk 19:14, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the suggestion! I have contacted an administrator that indicated availability on that page and hope that he'll be willing to adopt me. Thanks again and have a great day! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:23, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I am also a student adoptee! But with the same adopter!--The source of the cosmos... 12:38, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi! If you have any tips as to how the adoption process works, I'm all ears! :) Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Questions regarding help

I saw on a talk page elsewhere that you wanted some help regarding some issues. I'm not even close to being the necessarily right person to request help from, but if there's ever anything I can do, let me know. John Carter 19:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the reply. I have been unblocked by Durova after being previously idefinitely blocked. She suggested I use the adopt thing, because she didn't have time to mentor me herself. And so, I was really just hoping someone could see if my edits and edit summaries are good and if they had any further suggestions that I use to make the most of my come back. Thanks again! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:12, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Which edits and which edit summaries? Please specificy "since (time and date X)". Also, if you have any particular specific interests, you might see if there is any WikiProject on the Project Directory which corresponds to your particular area of interest, and consider joining it. John Carter 19:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Durova unblocked me earlier this month, and I have focused largely on using the Random article function to find articles that need sources, titles italicized, etc. and I also looked for a few choice AfDs to see if I can improve the articles under discussion. Essentially, I just wanted to check if my edits this month in general are on the right track. Also, I did contact an admin to see if they would be willing to adopt me. Thanks again! :) --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:25, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

It really isn't necessary to add reference to the country of birth in all cases, particularly when their nationality is already indicated, although I don't think anyone has any really substantial reason to oppose it. In the List of bosses in The Ocean Hunter, I think the more common usage is "based on", not "based off", but it's comprehensible in any event so no big deal. Otherwise, no real substantial criticism, although you might be interested in going to the Misplaced Pages:Community portal, where they have a listing of some of the articles which are in most need of some of the kind of work you do. Otherwise, your edit summaries, while once in a while kind of short, are certainly in context clear enough and I don't see any obvious problems. Good luck with the adoption, and I hope everything works out well. John Carter 19:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind, thorough, and constructive reply! Have a wonderful evening! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:52, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Joint Venture (music) AfD

You might want to revisit your !vote at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Joint Venture (music); the discography listed in the article was for a different band with the same name (and the band up for deletion was not on that notable label). Precious Roy 14:23, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear Precious Roy, thank you for the note; however, I am trying to avoid the AfDs for the time being. I just found some of the discussions and process frustrating and would rather focus my efforts elsewhere for now. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:05, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Your opinion welcome at deletion review for Plot of Les Mis

After Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Plot of Les Misérables closed as a deletion, I'm challenging the way the closing administrator acted as in violation of Misplaced Pages rules. Your participation is welcome at that discussion, Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2007 July 14. Please keep in mind that only arguments related to either new information or to how Misplaced Pages rules were violated or not violated in closing the discussion will be considered. It isn't a replay of the original AfD. I'm familiar with WP:CANVASSING and I am alerting everyone who participated in that discussion to the deletion review. I won't contact anyone again on this topic, and I apologize if you consider this note distracting. Noroton 04:52, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the note; I'm looking for suggestions from fellow editors on where I can participate, so I'll head over there ASAP. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 14:39, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: Note of redirect

That's a good idea. Thanks for letting me know. (ESkog) 22:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the reply! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 22:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Re typo

Oh man, of course you can correct me :) Our guidelines actually discourage editing others' comments—with a few exceptions—, so you're probably better off leaving them alone, but I'm perfectly fine with others fixing my typos. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 14:29, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for the reply! Have a pleasant day! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 14:32, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Admin userbox

People were putting up fake admin userboxes to attempt to impersonate admins, so someone added the verify link to that box. All it does is take you to the permissions list filtered to just the one person's name, and verifies that they actually do have the admin bit. No big thing, but kind of nice to have there in case you're ever suspicious at seeing it. Seraphimblade 04:21, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea actually and would proably work best if all legitimate admins had it. Of course, I would think impostors would be discovered fairly easily. Thanks for the reply in any case. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 04:27, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Comment about popular culture articles

I'm not sure why you think Misplaced Pages should be an anarchy, and your comment of I am just throwing an idea out there for others to consider as I am noticing a disturbing trend as of late. Anyway, the large number of "in popular culture" articles that have been created and the tremendous number of people who have worked on them suggest that a LOT of Wikipedians see value in these articles. doesn't justify the articles much. Let's say for example I ran a website with lots of people that work on it, and visit it. I'm not going to Misplaced Pages to promote the site, and encourage them to make an article on it. A group of people liking something is one thing, but notability, trivia and more plays a factor here. Misplaced Pages shouldn't be without rules or policies, things must be deleted at times. There is no chance Misplaced Pages should be deletion-free ever. There needs to be limits. Also it needs to be noted: many of the pop culture articles are branched off sections of the main subject. The main subject had a big section, so instead of condensing (which is the correct thing to do), they moved it into an ever growing trivial list. A useful pop culture article: is one with paragraphs and a decent explanation of why the subject is influenced by pop culture, not this listcruft garbage. Sure we could add a cleanup tag to all the pop culture articles that are lists: but frankly, I doubt many people are just going to rush and clean them up. Many articles remain on Misplaced Pages with cleanup tags for a long time, before even being noticed. So frankly, the deletion of the trivial lists are the better route. People can make promises to clean up if they want: but frankly many of those promises are rarely kept. If a decent pop culture article wants to be made: then it should be done properly. One last thing: I've seen you vote keep along with a comment of sourcing, add pictures and other things. Sourcing isn't the issue, neither is pictures. The problem it's very trivial, that's something that can't be fixed by sourcing or pictures. RobJ1981 20:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I think hoaxes, copyright violations, and attack pieces should be deleted, but the popular culture stuff shows the influence of various items. I actually totally agree with your statement that pop culture articles should contain paragraphs and explanations of why the subject influenced pop culture. What I am suggesting is that editors focus on converting these lists into well-written texts with references, pictures, etc., i.e. working to improve the articles and make them relevant rather than just hovering around deletion debates voting to delete the articles. Again, what I want is not anarchy, but editors working to improve articles or at least temporarily redirecting them rather than just outright destroying them. I suppose part of the matter for me is that I look at the 1000 plus edits I've made this month and the overwhelming majority of them have been to improve articles, even if it's little grammar edits here and there. I think I see the same three or so individuals (and I am not interested in calling anyone out or making accusations so I'll leave it at that) on every single popular culture AfD with way more AfD votes than edits to improve articles. I try to make sure that for every vote I made in an AfD, I make at least ten or so edits to improve articles as well, so that I am building upon the work of others rather than trying to tear it down. Imagine if the time were spent trying to make these lists into more coherent and structured essays? Also, even if the tags are up for a while, then maybe someone sooner or later will come along and improve it. If deleted, then what, editors have to start over from scratch? Take care! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 21:08, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Welcome 59.167.77.190

Hi Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles! Thankyou for your kind welcome on my IP talkpage! I'm still trying to get myself used to Misplaced Pages's policy and procedures at the moment (so many acronyms, and so little time! :) ). I'm not sure of the procedure, but is the welcome message on a talk page usually affixed if the user has done something incorrectly but in good faith? The reason I ask is I know I asked for an RfC last night, and was a bit worried that I didn't do it the right way. Anywhoo, thanks for helping out a (relative) newbie! 59.167.77.190 05:00, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello! The welcome is for all users. It's meant as a positive greeting to all new editors. It is NOT a reflection of anything negative. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 05:02, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your very prompt reply. I now understand entirely :) Thanks! 59.167.77.190 05:05, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

My pleasure and happy editing! :) Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 05:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Adoption

while cleaning up WP:ADOPT, I noticed that you'd indicated an interest in being adopted. Did that work out for you?

The Rhymesmith 02:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Chaser has adopted me. Thanks! :) --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 15:49, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!

		My RFA
		User:TenPoundHammer and his romp of Misplaced Pages-editing otters thank you for participating in Hammer's failed request for adminship, and for the helpful tips given to Hammer for his and his otters' next run at gaining the key. Also, Hammer has talked to the otters, and from now on they promise not to leave fish guts and clamshells on the Articles for Deletion pages anymore. Ten Pound Hammer • 17:06, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. Even though I opposed it, I'm sorry it didn't work out and wish you happy editing and good luck in the future. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 17:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Berger Blanc Suisse

~~This article is bloated with images. A huge gallery of other white dogs is clearly gratuitous in an article on a single breed that already has 10+ images. VanTucky 00:32, 31 July 2007 (UTC)~~

I'm not sure what you're reffering to. My question was on the basset hound article. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 00:34, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I was confused becuase you placed it originally without reference to the dog article in question. The images in the basset hound article are not of encyclopedic quality. They are home snapshots of pets that have poor composition. Some too far away, others too close, and generally with a poor background. A neutral background is what is desired in encyclopedic images. What's more, this is an encyclopedia, not a joke site. Intentionally comical images are not of the serious, informative caliber desired. If a subject is inherently funny to some people (the first non-infobox image as an example), that's of course fine. But dark, poorly-composed images should not be kept simply because they are funny. VanTucky 00:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I liked the way the two were sized and to the right, though. Have a nice night! --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 00:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Adoption feedback

I've been kind of negligent about proactively providing adoption guidance, so I want to remedy that. One of the reasons I haven't left any messages is that your mainspace edits, from what I've seen, are mostly minor but excellent, so there's nothing for me to comment on. All I've noticed is that one can just say "linked campus" but that's small beans.

As to AFD, I noticed you left a note to Corpx here. I thought that dialog between you two was civil and stuck well to the issues at hand. Good job. It didn't change anything, but sometimes dialog just gets an issue out in the open and reduces the chance of friction, which is good by itself.

I noticed an article you created got deleted, and I'm sorry to see that happen. AFD can be a contentious and sometimes difficult area of the site. You seem to have done a good job of properly getting back into deletion discussions. I only have two pieces of advice. First, the nomination for List of bosses... isn't really a candidate for speedy keep; the relevant guideline is Misplaced Pages:Speedy keep. That said, I hardly fault you for wanting to speedy keep an article of yours at AFD. Having a favorite article AFDed sucks, and I've been fortunate to not yet experience it. Second, extreme inclusionism (as you probably know by now) can be unpopular with some AFD regulars. I think this has less to do with a rejection of the philosophy than with how incivil and rancorous some deletion discussions have become and how high the passions can be on both sides. The only viable solution is that, the more extreme one's deletion-related views are, the more civil and polite they should be. This isn't required by our policies, but it's a good way to make yourself more likely to be heard, instead of dismissed as some loony inclusionist. You've been doing a good job of this so far. Keep it up. Let me know if you have any specific questions on my talk page or via email.--Chaser - T 03:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Dear Chaser,

Thank you for the feedback; I greatly appreciate it and hope that you are having a nice weekend! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 04:09, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Third Opinion

Thank you for listing your dispute at Misplaced Pages:Third opinion. Your request did not follow the guidelines for listing disputes. These guidelines are in place because they make sure that the editor who writes the Third Opinion is not biased, and that (s)he can easily see what the dispute is about.

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Okay, fair enough. Thank you for the feedback! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:32, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

My sincere apology

Hello...I sincerely apologize to overwrite your message that you left on another's Talk page. I certainly didn't mean to remove the message; merely, I only intended to add to mine to the space in a way that the message does not appear under the heading as the one before mine. Thank you much for bringing this issue to my attention. I will try to be really careful about this the next I have to leave a message at the end of a message list. Again, please accept my apology for my oversight and carelessness in this instance. →Lwalt 01:07, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Not a big deal and thank you for the nice message. All the best and happy editing! :) Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 01:10, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Avoidance?

I suppose not. --Eyrian 03:02, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I could not help but notice the first person to edit the Parma article after me happened to be you. Anyway, I just located a bunch of anonymous vandalism on the article for aurora. I believe you are an administrator, so please do feel free to warn the users appropriately, i.e. if my efforts are not correct. Here are the relevant diffs: and . Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 03:04, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

User:Chaser

LOL. Thx for the heads up. I didnt notice it was his user page! KarenAER 20:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Take care! :) Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 20:14, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

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Okay, I'll add something appropriate. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

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Also, do not place images (like you did with this one) in AFDs. They are discussions: not a correct place to post an image. RobJ1981 05:20, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, take care. --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 05:23, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I see you got caught up in fair use issues. You're not the first, and most certainly won't be the last. Despite my time here, I have only the barest understanding of it and stay as far away as possible. I wish I could say misery loves company, but I don't even know enough to get myself into WP:FU trouble. Let me know if you need me to find someone to help you with a fair use issue, though. I know a few intelligent editors who are quite good in this area.--Chaser - T 05:49, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I figured a photograph of games that I paid for and owned would be okay. Ah well... Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 10:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Welcome tag

Hi - I saw what you added to User_talk:Ashman2001. I'm not sure it's appropriate for brand new users to spam them with criticism of deletion policy - it looks like you are canvassing. New users need non-political welcome messages with handholding guidance. Only an old hand would know or care what "cruft" is, it looks like you spend too much time on afd. I'm not disagreeing that afd is broken, just that it's not appropriate to tag the talk pages of new users with it. Secretlondon 16:14, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I'll revise my welcome tag somewhat to make it more neutral and to include other helpful articles. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:16, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

What you're doing here is unacceptable. I suggest that you avoid linking to essays entirely, but linking to ones that advocate one side of an ongoing debate is repugnant. Essays, by their very nature, do not reflect consensus, and attempting to imply to new users that they do is a very bad thing. Stick to agreed upon guidelines and consensus, and whatever pleasantries you wish to add. --Eyrian 20:02, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps saying something like "the following are essays, not policies, that I have also found useful" would be helpful. Some of these, like Durova's essay on "the dark side" are incredibly informative in providing cautionary tales and preventing users from getting off on a wrong track. The others just encourage users to cite sources and edit rather than destroy articles off the bat. I see nothing wrong in that. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 20:07, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

No, it wouldn't be. Again, you're still trying to introduce new users to your way of thinking. I am shocked that you do not see the problems with this. Your saying "encourage users to cite sources and edit rather than destroy articles off the bat" indicates just how strongly you want them to follow your way of doing things. You should not use welcomes as a way to encourage people to take your side. --Eyrian 20:11, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, you are incorrect here. I am providing users with links that they could look over for ideas. I am not saying do what these links say or else. And this isn't and shouldn't be about "taking sides." I see myself as part of a project, not a faction. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 20:13, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Part of a project that should function how you want it to. Note that there's nothing wrong with that. But you're clearly trying to advance your agenda. And doing that by indoctrinating new users is absolutely unacceptable. --Eyrian 20:16, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Please do not confuse trying to offer friendly welcomes to new users with links to a variety of policies and essays that I have found useful after editing here for some time as advancing an agenda when that is not the case. I do not see how my good faith effort here is somehow worse than your crusade against the in popular culture material. I don't see what more you want here. I contacted Secretlondon again requesting his feedback as well as two other admins requesting theirs and have not welcomed anyone new since I did so. Please do not harass me. I would like for us to get along and all, but again, I don't know what more you hope to achieve in this area when I contacted the other three users, am awaiting their feedback, and haven't welcomed anyone new since? Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 20:21, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

All I want is for you to not link to essays or other divisive material in your welcome messages. --Eyrian 20:24, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, though some of these essays are incredibly helpful, such as User:Cream147/essays/Why is it important to cite our sources on Misplaced Pages? and User:Durova/The dark side. These are hardly "divisive" and even the ones about not deleting articles offer useful and helpful ideas for new users. I respect users enough to allow them to make their own decisions and develop their own editing habits over time. At least I didn't create a Why Popular Culture Articles Rock! essay or something! Then, you'd probably really be up in arms! :) Take care, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 20:29, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, surely then, you'll add my essay? Why not? Other people have found it helpful. Again, the key difference here is how you present your ideas. Putting divisive material in a welcome message is wrong. Fundamentally. And, yes, a few of those essays are probably alright. Others aren't. You can create what ever essays you like. Just don't link them to your welcome. How would you feel if I made a corresponding welcome message, filled with my ideas? --Eyrian 20:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Which essay of yours are you referring to? I would have no problem if you linked to your essays in your peersonal welcome message. A friendly welcome to a user saying "here are some items" I've found useful is a nice way to get things going. I think people are generlaly intelligent enough to determine for themseleves what is someone's ideas and what isn't. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 20:41, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

The order of things

As you will see here, articles are constructed from sources, not the other way around. The sources come first, then the article. --Eyrian 19:42, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I think some people who create articles have sources, but forget to use them or add them. I just graded some book reviews for example, and a few of my students clearly read the books, but didn't cite the relevant areas (obviously on assignments, they lose points for this error of omission. We have a diverse group of editors here and not all of them will be familiar with the importance of citing sources and so I think it is important that we encourage people to do so, without destroying their otherwise worthwhile contributions that just need citations. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:45, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

AFDs

Roi, I think it is time that you cut back on your AFD participation again. I haven't had a problem with what I've read about the AFDs you participated in, but clearly this AN thread over messaging new users started out of the AFD issues. As Durova says, sometimes its better to just back away from areas where you have strong feelings. Consider it.--Chaser - T 01:21, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Chaser, part of the reason why I joined the welcome committee was because I figured that couldn't possibly cause issues and the truth is it really hasn't. One user cautioned me about the welcome message I created, I immediately revised it and posted the revision in his page. The user who posted the AN thing about me clearly has a larger disagreement with me, and as his talk page indicates, a LOT of other users are now starting to take him to task for his recent editing habits. It would be unfortunate for someone who is in a debate with a variety of issues himself to have his comments on me somehow hinder my editing habits. I largely have limited my participation in AfDs and have made sure to make at least five or so posts elsewhere for every one AfD I participate in. If you feel, I should cut back further, I am willing to respect that, but I am nonetheless still concerned that the whole bring my welcome message to the noticeboard was entirely uncalled for. Please note that even EVula indicated that Eyrian should have just discussed the matter on my talk page instead and please also note that I discussed the matter civily with all other users and agreed to just use the regular welcome message, which I did when welcoming the last few editors that I welcomed. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 01:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

This wasn't just Eyrian (Secretlondon having brought it up). In any case, all I asked was that you consider it, and you've done that, which I appreciate. Now, let's see about resolving that other issue....--Chaser - T 01:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I understand that and I replied to Secretlondon immediately, revised the template, and posted my revision on his talk page. I did not receive any further notice from Secretlondon regarding the revised version, but had he replied that he still didn't think it was good, I would have been happy to revise it further or as happened when more neutral editors offered suggestions abandoned it altogether for the the regular template as I ultimately agreed to do. But anyway, it seems that that matter has indeed been resolved peacefully. --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 02:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

you know, Grand Roi, i agree with much of what you are doing at AfD, but when I happened to see that welcoming template, I did not think it very well balanced. The current 12 point listing seems better than the 10, but i wonder how you intend to use it--apparently for people who comment anon at AfD? Personally, I just send them a note suggesting their views will be more attentively listened to if they register. If this is how you intend to use that template, I'd urge you to think again. If you're going to use it on deletionists there preferentially, i urge you to very strongly think again. You might want to consider adding WP:NOT. Im quite unhappy with that page, but it's only fair to include it. In my opinion, the most useful page for new people at AfD is of course WP:Deletion policy. and WP:AfD. DGG (talk) 05:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your constructive comment. I have decided to just go with the generic welcome templates suggested to me by EVula and Neil so as to avoid complicating things or stirring up controversy. I wanted to personalize the welcome in a friendly manner, but that effort was misinterpreted and so I am just going to keep things simple instead. The biggest thing getting me right now at AfDs, by the way, is the crusade by a half dozen or less users against practically any and all "in popular culture" material. It looks like a backlash to these efforts may finally be coming about. Anyway, I am sure you know what I mean. Take care! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 05:49, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Roi/Eyrian conflict

(Disclosure: I am Roi's adopter/mentor.) The two of you have obviously gotten into it a lot over the past few weeks. Leaving aside the issue of who's in the wrong for what, I think a pragmatic solution is available. That solution is for you to voluntarily avoid each other. I'm not saying don't edit the articles you are already editing or AFDs for articles you've worked on. But what I do suggest is that you don't comment on each other's actions or start editing on pages or in areas that the other had already begun editing. I realize one objection to my proposal may be "but how do I stop the other guy from screwing something up/violating Misplaced Pages policies/deleting good articles/whatever." My response is that you don't. Neither of you is the last defender of the Wiki. If the other one of you is really doing something horrible, then someone else can deal with it (like Secretlondon messaged Roi above). The interpersonal tension b/t you two is pretty high. Let's try to eliminate it by simply cutting out the interaction.--Chaser - T 01:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

If that is what you would like for me to do, I am willing to abide by your request. Sincerley, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 01:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks. I left a message on Eyrian's talk page asking for their input as well. Now we just need to hear from Eyrian.--Chaser - T 01:58, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

The larger disagreement between Eyrian and I may also share some similarities with those between him and User:Artw, User:DGG, and User:Dstumme. I have NOT come to these three users' defense in these possibly related disputes and nor will I get involved further per your recommendation above, but there may be a broader policy dispute at play that a few other editors may need a neutral party to help resolve. So, I'll just throw that out there for you and Durova to consider and as for me, I'll work on other stuff now as you requested. Also, please note that any and all future welcome messages I send out as a member of the welcoming committee will be using templates suggested by EVula and Neil, who I think offered constructive critcisms in a civil manner. I will NOT use the old template I tried to create in the past couple of days. Thanks again! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 02:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

No, the similarities are minimal. You all have your different styles of argument and attack. You seem to, as in this case, love to point out that there are other people who might be involved in a dispute with me. It happens every single time. --Eyrian 03:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I already do. Our friend of Citrouilles tends to show up at AfDs that I've participated in. I was finally motivated by what a perceived as illogic to leave a comment, when I discovered the behavior above, and took what I believed to be the appropriate action. Any more avoidance simply isn't possible. --Eyrian 03:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Why not Eyrian? Secretlondon noticed this and left a comment; surely one administrator is enough to resolve a single situation.--Chaser - T 04:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're asking. I have no regular contact with this user, and I intend to unwatch this page as soon as we're done. The only reason I came here is because of the arguments he was making on AfDs I was participating in. I took action beyond Secretlondon because subsequent inappropriate welcomes had been left, without any kind of attempt to check whether they were acceptable. Unless I stumble upon such indiscretions in the future, I would have no reason to contact this user unless he initiated something. --Eyrian 04:05, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

That is simply not true. I posted the revised version on Secrtelondon's talk page and again, I next used a revised version. Secretlondon continued to make edits after I did that and without telling me anything further, I can't just assume that the revised version is disputed. As to AfDs, I did not respond to you, but to the nominations; I have avoided engaging you as much as possible on those discussion. When Corpx nominated an article of mine for deletion you were the first to vote to delete. I had earlier suggested that we avoid each other: and and then I make some edits here. And who was the FIRST person to edit that page after me (a page I don't believe he ever edited before)? you. Next after Chaser suggested I offer you "an olive branch", I thought I might help edit some of the articles you create and when you suddenly deleted all of your pages, I actually felt some concern that something bad may have happened and tried to contact you to see if you were okay and posted about it on the ANI board. The manner in which you have discussed with me, and User:Artw, User:DGG, and User:Dstumme just really seems "chip on the shoulder"-esque, but what really is bothersome is that you posted the thing about me at AN BEFORE discussing it with me on my talk page (notice the times of these posts): followed by . What's with that? Why take me to AN when I was still waiting on a response from Secretlondon and had already revised my welcome message and decreased the amount of welcomes I gave? On top of all that, you also nominated a userbox that happens to be on my talk page for deletion. I am entirely willing to follow and abide by Chaser's recommendation and I hope that you will be able to do so as well and not stalk or harass me beyond this post. Please let's get on with our lives already and focus on improving this site. Thanks. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 04:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

(In reply to Eyrian) Let me illustrate what I mean with examples. If one of you initiates or participates in an AFD, the other voluntarily avoids it. If one of you edits an article, the other voluntarily avoids it. I'm not saying check the whole history. But if you notice that the other person has participated in the history, then recuse yourself from editing that article or participating in that AFD. If it's another issue like new user msgs, then drop perhaps drop a note on an uninvolved experienced editor's talk page and let them try to resolve it (like Secretlondon was doing above). In sum, pro-actively try to avoid each other.--Chaser - T 04:17, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Chaser your request sounds entirely reasonable to me and I will make a conscious effort to avoid Eyrian at all costs; if he fails to do the same, what should I do then? On another note, we both tend to participate in AfDs on "in popular culture" articles. How should we deal with those? Just not comment on each other's comments or should we both avoid these AfDs altogether? Thanks. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 04:21, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, what I'm suggesting is voluntary, so it depends on both parties consent. If Eyrian agrees, then the first person to comment to an AFD precludes the other from doing so. We could agree to some more flexibility in that area, though, such as just not responding directly to each other.--Chaser - T 04:31, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

It would probably be more fair or easier to either have us just avoid certain AfDs about which we are in total ideological disagreement about, such as any pertaining to "in popular culture", or to participate in them, but not debate with each other over our posts. You'll notice that I avoided responding to some of Eyrian's comments on my posts in discussions today, for example. Also, we probably would be less likely to arouse suspicions if we agree to not nominate any articles created by each other for deletion. Finally, I definitely think your suggestion about some other admin contacting me should they notice something problematic about my editing is a good one as it would diminish any likely inference by myself or others of something suspect from Eyrian contacting me. I absolutely can live with such terms and if it would be help, I'd be totally open-minded of another admin chiming in here and saying: "Le Grand Roi and Eyrian, avoid each other plain and simple, one of us will notice and take care of any suspect behavior on either or yours parts." In any case, if Eyrian posts anything further on my talk page, dramatically edits any articles I created, etc., should I contact someone, ignore it, or what? Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 04:45, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

(de-indent). Well, you're always welcome to contact me for a second opinion. In the event things get hot between the two of you, I'd suggest contacting me or a neutral party who happens to be online with a message along the lines of "Another editor and I disagree about something on ]. Could you give us your outside opinion to help resolve the issue?" Let's see if these problems continue after today.--Chaser - T 02:35, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm trying to stay out of any personal disputes. Just commenting to say that the fact that I don't reply immediately doesn't mean I am happy - I have loads of admin and bureaucratic things I could be doing and like to edit too. This means that I will ignore some admin work so that I can edit (otherwise I'd only do admin work). I found you using my talk page as a scratchpad quite annoying as I couldn't tell if I really had any new messages. Your revised version wasn't substantially different from the one I complained about and when I did comment I suggested you discussed it with the welcoming team rather than with me. I am much happier that you are using a generic welcome template. Secretlondon 01:35, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, take care! --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 15:14, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay. The interaction we did have today over disruption on an article he created and that I edited heavily to seemed constructive at least. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 02:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I do not think it is necessary to avoid AfDs where you and Eyrian disagree--what I think would help if you avoided specifically attacked his position, but comment instead as if you were making a comment on the matter without having seen the previous discussion. I say this knowing that i am also sometimes perhaps doing this more than i should, and I recognize how extremely hard it is to avoid getting personal in such debates. I try, but it takes constant trying and watching oneself. I think Eyrian is way off on a hobbyhorse about this & I intend to continue to oppose, but it is essential to always do it in a good humor, which I say as much for my benefit as yours. As I say on my user page in general about such opposition, he and i are most unlikely to convince each other, and we might as well accept it. DGG (talk) 05:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your input. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 05:52, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Comment

Not to sound rude: but not everything must be kept. Misplaced Pages isn't a guide to everything. Any AFD I see you post in: it's a keep or merge vote. Perhaps reading up on guidelines more would help out? Everyone can't ignore all policies, just to keep everything. This isn't a deletion free website. RobJ1981 17:35, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I tend to only participate in AfDs that concern specific articles I would like to see kept, anymore. I notice a few users who only "vote" delete and who seem to hover over those discussions and it kind of disturbs me that more editors haven't called them out for it, but ah well. Anyway, I'm trying to avoid those discussions as much as possible, as they're incredibly frustrating. The biggest strength of Misplaced Pages is its potential to do what paper encyclopedias cannot by storing as much of human knowledge of possible and so deleting articles that are not nonsense, copywright violations, attack pieces, or hoaxes really hinders that goal. So, I'm large avoiding those discussions except for the occasional one that I come across on an article that I find particularly of value. At present, since I joined the welcoming committee, I am focusing my efforts on welcoming new users with the help of the new user log as I figure that is a good, uncontroversial way to contribute and to avoid frustration. --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 17:44, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Tristan Tondino deletions

Cher Grand Roi des Citrouilles! C'est avec délice que j'ai dévoré vos commentaires - finalement un auteur à l'esprit ouvert à la pluralité - differente dello spirito ottuso degli altri che se dichiarono "filosofi" - I'm glad to see you are not a "delietionist" - I am having a problem with a couple of administrators who have decided boldly to delete parts of articles that seem to have irritated them - peccato - the users are Liebniz, Smashville and Chaser. I don't see the point of deleting an article about an artist (Tristan Tondino) who has integrated philosophy into his artwork - the article was not harming anybody - furthermore, I have become severely turned off by deletionism (let's call it what it is, censorship)- I have been working with others on Misplaced Pages articles for over two years and was until recently quite impressed with the democratic process. It seems to me that adding, subtracting and deleting from articles must be done by rational agreement alone, and not by a bitter hegemony. I am also concerned about the designation of "notable" which I am discovering is used more and more - to begin with Van Gogh was not notable in his time. And really everyone is notable. We all participate in creating the big picture. I have been working steadily on articles on Irrealism, on Nelson Goodman and Jean-Paul Sartre and also on Tristan Tondino whose work was inspired by Goodman's Irrealism - my entries have not been about promotion of the artist but of about an idea (if anything, the entries would not stimulate sales to the average art buyer) - and the idea in fact is a road map for plurality - I wrote the section on the transcendance of the ego in a page on Sartre, dealing with our general inability to construct much more than our own restricted version of the Universe (or reality) - if this encyclopedia has any value it is in its ability to broaden our understanding of the individual perspective, not only of those who have the power or the means to provide themselves with "notability" - Cher Roi de la Grande Citrouille, à cet instant même, je vais aller visiter votre article mentionné ci-dessus - au plaisir de lire votre réponse -Joseane 20:53, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Dear Joseane, while I agree with your comments about notability, absolutely appreciate your nice remarks to me, and also agree that the article probably should be on Misplaced Pages for many of the reasons you indicate, this website works in a certain manner that is essentially summed up as "consensus". If a majority of editors feel strongly about something that say you or I feel oppositely about, their views will ultimate triumph here. Whether it is right or wrong, that is the way things work on this particular site. Therefore, your best bet is to take the matter to Deletion Review and work to convince other editors that the article does have relevance. That is the only real route to take here in order to have an article recreated. I am not familiar with all of the admins you mention above, but I am familiar with Chaser and I am convinced that he largely acts in good faith with the best intentions of this site in mind. Thus, he is only following established policies in preventing the article's recreation. Again, I agree that the article should be recreated, but the only way you can accomplish that goal would be through discussion on deletion review and by discussion with other editors. Also, you may want to check out Misplaced Pages:Adopt-a-User, as I have found that program incredibly helpful over the past two months. I hope this reply helps and I wish you the best in your edits. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 21:58, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Live deletion policy discussion, round one

OK, per the email I sent you, I made some comments here. Let's try to discuss deletion policy with some articles. We may not convince each other, but hopefully we'll learn some more about each other's position. (I can sometimes appear quite deletionist, but sometimes policy drives me to be quite inclusionist. In any case, I'm clearly more deletionist than you, so hopefully we can have some healthy debate and learn from it.) Best.--Chaser - T 04:50, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Dear Chaser, just to give you a quick heads up, we've had our internet, cable, and phone lines going on off due to some severe storms in Ohio (see the photo I posted on EVula's talk page of flooding on my property, so for the next day or so, I may be somewhat slow to respond. Anyway, regarding articles, my biggest feelings are a) Misplaced Pages is not a paper encyclopedia and so has the potential to have more and more kinds of articles than anything ever attempted before, b) many people's arguments focus on "trivia" and "indiscriminate" when to a large extent encyclopedias are collections of random information many of which (even in a paper encyclopedia) could largely be summed up as trivia and that is only organized in an alphabetical fashion, c) trying to catalog as much of human knowledge as possible is a really worthwhile endeavor, d) the fact that hundreds if not thousands of people work on articles and god knows how many read them suggest that just because a handful of editors who participate in AfDs don't like or see value in an article, that sure in heck does not mean that a much larger number of editors and readers elsewhere do, so why make them feel unwelcomed? I am greatly influenced by the logic in those essays I link to on my talk page (and to those external criticisms that I used to link to on my talk page, but that I removed the other day based on the other content of that site). Deleting stuff that is not a copywright violation, hoax, or attack piece is silly. Who cares if not everybody we have articles on is incredibly notable when we have the hard disk space and interest of at least somebody out there to read it? Let's be as welcome and open-minded to the global internet community as possible. And again, I had a discussion after class with my students (I teach college-level history courses) about their thoughts on Misplaced Pages and they told me that they think its greatest strength is all the obscure stuff you cannot find elsewhere, including articles on seemingly minor, but interesting figures and popular culture articles that show the amazing influence of various items throughout history. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 15:12, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

That's cool. AP US History was one of my favorite classes in high school (unfortunately I don't remember as much as I'd learned then). See you at the next AFD?--Chaser - T 05:28, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I've taught at two universities so far (I have a bachelor's and a masters, and am working on my doctorate). Below is a list of my teaching experience:

Western Civilization from the 17th Century to Modern Times 2007

   Small Section Leader

Western Civilization from Antiquity to the 17th Century

   Small Section Leader					2007

Medieval Europe 1: 300-1100

   Teaching Assistant (Grader)				2006

Western Civilization from the 17th Century to Modern Times 2006

   Small Section Leader

American Civilization Since 1865 2006

   Teaching Assistant (Grader)

The Later Byzantine Empire 2006

   Teaching Assistant (Grader and Online Discussion

Section Leader) The Early Byzantine Empire, A.D. 300-843 2005

   Teaching Assistant (Grader and Online Discussion

Section Leader) Western Civilization from Antiquity to the 17th Century 2005

   Teaching Assistant (Grader and Discussion Section

Leader) American Civilization since 1877 2005

   Teaching Assistant (Grader and Discussion Section

Leader) American Civilization, 1607-1877 2004

   Teaching Assistant (Grader)

History of Civilization II 2003-2004

   Teaching Assistant (Grader and Discussion Section

Leader) United States History - Modern Period 2002

   Teaching Assistant (Grader)

Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 14:01, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

A medal from me

File:Order Friendship of Peoples.jpg

For your honesty and friendlyness. M.V.E.i. 16:59, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! :) Have a great day! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 17:04, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Your video game images

I'm deleting at least some of the recent ones you uploaded, like Jaws, because 1) You cannot release "public domain" a photograph of copyright material, which the box art is. 2) You can't claim fair use because that can only be claimed in articles about the image, and since it contains two different things... but that doesn't matter, because 3) Fair use can only be claimed for low-resolution reproductions, which this is not. If you have any questions, please drop me a note. --Golbez 05:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Roi, I'm pretty sure some of your other images that are tagged as PD or something are actually fair use (video game boxes and snack packing, to begin with). I think you can keep the images (or, even better, images straight from the websites) as long as they have appropriate fair-use tags. As I said above, I know nothing about how to appropriately tag something as fair use.--Chaser - T 05:50, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I doubt the video game companies would really mind, because of the free advertising, plus these are all my own games that I own (paid for). In any event, I tried different lower quality, less game box focused photos today and have posted a comment on Golbez's talk page to see if these two images are better and if not, what I need to change and how I should tag them. I await his response. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 14:10, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I asked someone else to weigh in, but my understanding is since the covers are copyrighted, you can't release photos of them as PD, because those photos primarily portray the covers. Even if they were considered separate works for the purpose of copyright, they'd still be derivative works. It's similar to a movie poster in an article about a movie, except there it's clearly the copyrighted work of the movie studio.--Chaser - T 03:03, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

What about if it is like a collage of game covers or in the case of the Reel Fishing one I added today, taken at a distance that includes my bed and a game controller? Would that be kind of like taking a picture of a building that has a poster on it? Anyway, I see that you asked here for a second opinion. I am obviously perfectly content with anyone changing the copywright tag to be more appropriate. All the images are of stuff I own and photos that I personally took. If there is a way to take the photos that would be more acceptable, I would be happy to take new photos accordingly. One thing I am curious about, though, is how it would be different than say people who post photos of stuff they own on ebay? Regards, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 03:05, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Chaser asked me to look at the images in question since I'm better-versed in the fair-use criteria and the appropriate nuances of copyright law than he believes himself to be :-).

The answer is pretty simple: As with this image and the discussion we had over the same exact issue, any picture that is primarily of a branded product cover is a) permitted under the FCC and more or less whitelisted since it's next to impossible to create a free version that adequately conveys the appearance of a copyrighted product cover design. But b) it is still quite likely a copyrighted image and must take the appropriate fair-use license, in this case {{product-cover}}. With a completed rationale, of course.

It doesn't matter in this case that you took the picture yourself or that you show a bit of the carpet, or that there's a mix of cartridge boxes ... none of those pass the threshold of originality that would confer an independent copyright. They are pictures whose sole interest to the viewer is the copyrighted cover artwork depicted therein.

Now, if the nutrition bars had material on them that was only trademarked and not copyrighted, that would be different. But I doubt that's likely, and I doubt the PD issues I've pointed to regarding the age of the original Coca-Cola logo would apply in this case. Daniel Case 04:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Addendum: This is, of course, per Misplaced Pages's more restrictive fair-use interpretation. In the real world I think you probably could claim copyright on some of these. But remember, we interpret copyright law far more strictly than even, say, Disney's lawyers do. All in the name of promoting free content. Daniel Case 04:51, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the reply. Do I therefore need to to change the image tags and if so how do I do that at this point? Would the deleted images have been okay with a different tag, then? Thanks again! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 04:53, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Use {{product-cover}} and {{fair use rationale}}. If you want, I can fill in the latter. Which images were deleted? Chaser only referred me to two that still seemed to be up. Daniel Case 16:28, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

OK. I see what you mean from the above conversation. Outside of an article about the product, a fair-use image can only be used in another article if it's discussing the image itself, basically (i.e., a controversial cover illustration would be OK in an article about the artist or the company as long as the controversy over the image is discussed in the text). Daniel Case 16:31, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

If you check my upload log, you'll see that Mortal Kombat, Jaws, Lethal Enforcers, and Reel Fishing related images have been deleted. Also, if you would indeed be so kind as to properly tag them so I can see an example for future reference should I upload any more images in the future, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks again for your time and help here! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:32, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, I think I've gotten the hang of fair use. I switched tags and added FU rationales for two images (SingStar games and Tiger's Milk). Try to use the advice here to fix the rest. Templates other than the ones Daniel mentioned above are in Category:Non-free image copyright tags. Misplaced Pages:Non-free use rationale guideline is the guide to FU rationales. Try fixing a few of your old images and then Daniel or I will check your work. Another tip is to reduce resolution from the high output of your digital camera. Not only does this help the FU rationale, but it helps users with slow connections when they load the images in the articles.--Chaser - T 06:31, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the note; I am in the process of composing an email to you. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 06:36, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Continued from our conversation on Durova's talk

I'm not assuming sockpuppetry at the moment, no. I'm more than willing to believe that you have seriously turned over a new leaf. However, when all of my previous interactions with you have dealt with the fact that you were flagrantly disregarding policy and being (at least in any communication with me) thoroughly unrepentent about it, I think it's only human to be a bit suspicious. If you want to Email any evidence of anything to me, feel free. I've enabled Email, so just leave me a note on my Talk page reminding me to check it - I sometimes forget. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 10:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, though, much of what was alleged against me was inaccurate or at least distorted and I absolutely will not apologize for stuff that is not true. I did create two additional accounts that I admit to, but several other accounts and IPs alleged against me just were not mine, and the checkuser helped show that. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 14:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Comment

Not to sound rude: but you need to read up on policies and guidelines more. Many of your "keep per whoever" AFD comments aren't even going to go noticed by the person that closes the debate. Other keep comments such as "it has good images" isn't a reasonable reason either. Images of anything can be found: that doesn't improve the content of the article. I believe people have said some of this to you before: but you choose to ignore it for whatever reason. Ignoring comments, isn't helping the debates. RobJ1981 21:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback. Have an enjoyable evening! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 22:06, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

ANI discussion about you

As I'm very frustrated at this point: I started a discussion. I wanted input from others, about your disruptive ways. Perhaps someone needs to mentor you, so you actually know the correct things to do for AFDs and images. The discusion is here: Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Le_Grand_Roi_des_Citrouilles_being_disruptive. RobJ1981 22:29, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

That was entirely uncalled for. I am being mentored by Chaser and have greatly limited my participation in AfDs. Out of the over fifty edits I made today, most of them were welcome messages or edits to improve articles. I am actually quite insulted by you doing that, although I at least appreciate you letting me know about the post. I have replied to all of your posts on my user page, which you have ignored replying to. Instead of discussing any concerns with me, you just post something here without seemingly even reading replies. Please do not stalk me and please remain civil. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 22:52, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

That vandal

Thanks for the report to WP:AIV. I got him for 24 hours, hopefully this is will change his mind a bit. - Philippe | Talk 04:05, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome! That was one of my first reports there and I am happy to see that it was productive. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 04:06, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Reverse Copyright

Here's a copyright question the other way round...

What's the law when a contributor to Misplaced Pages subsequently uses her own contribution in a print publication? Must she or must she not attribute to WP? Should she (legally or ethically) use her username and/or real name?

Help please!!!--Naime Tulum 12:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I did not get a chance to read your message yesterday; I have been taking a day or two off for health and other reasons. Anyway, I see on your talk page that a fellow editor has responded to your question on your talk page. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 14:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

DRV

I have initiated a deletion review of an AFD which you were involved in. You may wish to contribute to the discussion. Balancer 04:52, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Sure, I will be glad to. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 14:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Save the trivia

Here's why not:

Conflicing policy

Alternative sites that will accept trivia

/ edg ☺ ★ 14:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the links; I'll look through them momentarily. Happy Labor Day! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 14:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow I forgot it was a holiday. Thanks! / edg ☺ ★ 14:38, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. We're having relatives come over around 1PM for chicken. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 14:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Response to recent AFD comment

Your comment here: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/King Kong in popular culture is incorrect. The article does indeed violate policies (as stated by Corvus cornix:WP:V, WP:OR, WP:RS and WP:TRIVIA). Read up on policies, instead of just assuming things aren't violating anything. RobJ1981 00:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC)