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| ==Arrested without warrant== | ==Arrested without warrant== | ||
| Equinox137, The news media reports specify that he was arrested without a warrant, they do this because the police arresting him had no warrant to arrest him, or search warrant. He was arrested in Canada, by Canadian officers, who had no warrant as would be expected in Canada. That there may have been a warrant for his arrest in the US, which *is* another jurisdiction, is besides the point and does nothing to contradict the entirely factual statement that he "was arrested without warrant". Insisting that the supposed existence of a US warrant meant that he was not arrested without a warrant in Canada is like me insisting that my boot laces are not untied, when I'm wearing unlaced sneakers but, back at home my boots are laced up in the closet. The news articles specify that he was arrested without warrant, and you counter with a rhetorical argument why those sources must be wrong, the sources trump your original research. ] 02:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC) | Equinox137, The news media reports specify that he was arrested without a warrant, they do this because the police arresting him had no warrant to arrest him, or search warrant. He was arrested in Canada, by Canadian officers, who had no warrant as would be expected in Canada. That there may have been a warrant for his arrest in the US, which *is* another jurisdiction, is besides the point and does nothing to contradict the entirely factual statement that he "was arrested without warrant". Insisting that the supposed existence of a US warrant meant that he was not arrested without a warrant in Canada is like me insisting that my boot laces are not untied, when I'm wearing unlaced sneakers but, back at home my boots are laced up in the closet. The news articles specify that he was arrested without warrant, and you counter with a rhetorical argument why those sources must be wrong, the sources trump your original research. ] 02:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC) | ||
| :The source used to support this line does ''not'' say "without a warrant". In fact, the source makes no mention of a warrant one way or the other. Therefore, it is not appropriate to say he was arrested without one. Upon further examination, it is clear from more recent sources that an order for his arrest did exist. Indeed, Canada appears to be rounding up other deserters as recently as this month, so one might guess they have a legal basis for doing so. I think it would be interesting if someone dug up a few expert sources in the field of Canadian law so we can learn from their discussion of this case. ] 03:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC) | :The source used to support this line does ''not'' say "without a warrant". In fact, the source makes no mention of a warrant one way or the other. Therefore, it is not appropriate to say he was arrested without one. Upon further examination, it is clear from more recent sources that an order for his arrest did exist. Indeed, Canada appears to be rounding up other deserters as recently as this month, so one might guess they have a legal basis for doing so. I think it would be interesting if someone dug up a few expert sources in the field of Canadian law so we can learn from their discussion of this case. ] 03:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC) | ||
| ::From two articles cited as sources in the article: | ::From two articles cited as sources in the article: | ||
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| Speaking of round-about sources: a bunch of articles from the Nelson Daily News quoting Nelson City police Chief Dan Maluta covered in this blog posting throw considerable doubt on the claim that NCP were acting at the behest of CBSA. I think this is important, because the notability of this article is based in large part on the political bru-ha-ha in Canada over the apparent actions of NCP at the behest of the US military (which were then countermanded by officials at CBSA and CIC when they became aware). The article presents the other version --the one implied, but not actually stated, by Maluta-- that CBSA ordered NCP to arrest, as fact. The sources are not available on-line via the Nelson Daily News, but the excerpts on the blog and the ] letter make clear that much of the issue in Canada is this unresolved concern. ] 06:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC) | Speaking of round-about sources: a bunch of articles from the Nelson Daily News quoting Nelson City police Chief Dan Maluta covered in this blog posting throw considerable doubt on the claim that NCP were acting at the behest of CBSA. I think this is important, because the notability of this article is based in large part on the political bru-ha-ha in Canada over the apparent actions of NCP at the behest of the US military (which were then countermanded by officials at CBSA and CIC when they became aware). The article presents the other version --the one implied, but not actually stated, by Maluta-- that CBSA ordered NCP to arrest, as fact. The sources are not available on-line via the Nelson Daily News, but the excerpts on the blog and the ] letter make clear that much of the issue in Canada is this unresolved concern. ] 06:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC) | ||
| ::''Equinox137, The news media reports specify that he was arrested without a warrant, they do this because the police arresting him had no warrant to arrest him, or search warrant.'' So the news media is always correct? | |||
| ::''He was arrested in Canada, by Canadian officers, who had no warrant as would be expected in Canada.'' | |||
| ::Wrong. Canadian police arrest on the basis of U.S. criminal arrest warrants all the time. | |||
| ::''That there may have been a warrant for his arrest in the US, which *is* another jurisdiction, is besides the point and does nothing to contradict the entirely factual statement that he "was arrested without warrant".'' | |||
| ::Citing VVAW doesn't make is factual. | |||
| ::''Insisting that the supposed existence of a US warrant meant that he was not arrested without a warrant in Canada is like me insisting that my boot laces are not untied, when I'm wearing unlaced sneakers but, back at home my boots are laced up in the closet.'' | |||
| ::That is a complete "apples and oranges" argument. | |||
| ::''The news articles specify that he was arrested without warrant, and you counter with a rhetorical argument why those sources must be wrong, the sources trump your original research.'' | |||
| ::There's no OR about it. It seems to me that you need to refresh yourself with Misplaced Pages's OR policy. When a member of the U.S. military deserts, it is ''automatic'' that an arrest warrant is issued and entered into ], which Canada also has access to and probably about how they learned about Snyder's arrest warrant. (http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps3213/ncicinv.htm). In the U.S., a law enforcement officer would obligated to enforce the warrant, however it's within the descretion of other nations if the deserter is within their borders. Obviously, the higher powers that be opted for political reasons not to enforce the warrant, but to say no warrant existed is flat out false and is POV. ] 00:01, 2 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 00:05, 2 November 2007
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Referencing and citation: not checked
 | This article was nominated for deletion on May 9, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep. |
youtube item on him
Hi. Don't have the link with me, but I did notice there's a youtube piece of his talk. Good luck. HG 19:39, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Childhood
How relevent is his childhood to the article and his notability? It seems rather out of place. Rklawton 22:09, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Arrested without warrant
Equinox137, The news media reports specify that he was arrested without a warrant, they do this because the police arresting him had no warrant to arrest him, or search warrant. He was arrested in Canada, by Canadian officers, who had no warrant as would be expected in Canada. That there may have been a warrant for his arrest in the US, which *is* another jurisdiction, is besides the point and does nothing to contradict the entirely factual statement that he "was arrested without warrant". Insisting that the supposed existence of a US warrant meant that he was not arrested without a warrant in Canada is like me insisting that my boot laces are not untied, when I'm wearing unlaced sneakers but, back at home my boots are laced up in the closet. The news articles specify that he was arrested without warrant, and you counter with a rhetorical argument why those sources must be wrong, the sources trump your original research. Pete.Hurd 02:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
- The source used to support this line does not say "without a warrant". In fact, the source makes no mention of a warrant one way or the other. Therefore, it is not appropriate to say he was arrested without one. Upon further examination, it is clear from more recent sources that an order for his arrest did exist. Indeed, Canada appears to be rounding up other deserters as recently as this month, so one might guess they have a legal basis for doing so. I think it would be interesting if someone dug up a few expert sources in the field of Canadian law so we can learn from their discussion of this case. Rklawton 03:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
- From two articles cited as sources in the article:
- The Calgary Sun: article "A month ago, he says police officers in Nelson, B.C. barged into his home much as U.S. soldiers violate Iraqi abodes, hauling him out in his underwear in cuffs without a warrant and valid legal reason."
- Toronto Star: "police in Nelson, B.C., arrested U.S. war resister Kyle Snyder last month. They didn't have a warrant."
Where are the sources demonstrating a warrant?oh there it is Pete.Hurd 05:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The sentence that reads "but released when Citizenship and Immigration Canada informed the police they had no legal basis for arresting him." appears to be sourced only by this blog entry, and seems to be based on the events described by this Member of Parliament's letter, which contradicts the statement by saying it was a CBSA, not CIC, that ordered him released.
"Mr. Atamanenko’s office made some phone calls to try and figure out why Mr. Snyder had been arrested for immigration reasons if he was here legally. After six hours of being detained, a Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) agent from Vancouver, who had learned that Mr. Snyder had been detained, called the Nelson City Police and had him released. At the time, Mr. Snyder was told by this agent that the US military had requested his arrest and deportation."
Pete.Hurd 06:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Speaking of round-about sources: a bunch of articles from the Nelson Daily News quoting Nelson City police Chief Dan Maluta covered in this blog posting here throw considerable doubt on the claim that NCP were acting at the behest of CBSA. I think this is important, because the notability of this article is based in large part on the political bru-ha-ha in Canada over the apparent actions of NCP at the behest of the US military (which were then countermanded by officials at CBSA and CIC when they became aware). The article presents the other version --the one implied, but not actually stated, by Maluta-- that CBSA ordered NCP to arrest, as fact. The sources are not available on-line via the Nelson Daily News, but the excerpts on the blog and the Alex Atamanenko letter make clear that much of the issue in Canada is this unresolved concern. Pete.Hurd 06:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
- Equinox137, The news media reports specify that he was arrested without a warrant, they do this because the police arresting him had no warrant to arrest him, or search warrant. So the news media is always correct?
- He was arrested in Canada, by Canadian officers, who had no warrant as would be expected in Canada.
- Wrong. Canadian police arrest on the basis of U.S. criminal arrest warrants all the time.
- That there may have been a warrant for his arrest in the US, which *is* another jurisdiction, is besides the point and does nothing to contradict the entirely factual statement that he "was arrested without warrant".
- Citing VVAW doesn't make is factual.
- Insisting that the supposed existence of a US warrant meant that he was not arrested without a warrant in Canada is like me insisting that my boot laces are not untied, when I'm wearing unlaced sneakers but, back at home my boots are laced up in the closet.
- That is a complete "apples and oranges" argument.
- The news articles specify that he was arrested without warrant, and you counter with a rhetorical argument why those sources must be wrong, the sources trump your original research.
- There's no OR about it. It seems to me that you need to refresh yourself with Misplaced Pages's OR policy. When a member of the U.S. military deserts, it is automatic that an arrest warrant is issued and entered into NCIC, which Canada also has access to and probably about how they learned about Snyder's arrest warrant. (http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps3213/ncicinv.htm). In the U.S., a law enforcement officer would obligated to enforce the warrant, however it's within the descretion of other nations if the deserter is within their borders. Obviously, the higher powers that be opted for political reasons not to enforce the warrant, but to say no warrant existed is flat out false and is POV. Equinox137 00:01, 2 November 2007 (UTC)