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| Hopping is reverting my edits to the 'see also' portion of this article. My version describes what medical students are doing (working toward a degree, either M.D. or D.O.). Hopping's is redundant, especially for a "see also". I would prefer that my version be restored. Other thoughts? http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Medical_school_in_the_United_States&diff=168877809&oldid=168877276 <font color="red">]</font><font color="blue">]</font> <sup><font color="darkred">]</font></sup> 04:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC) | Hopping is reverting my edits to the 'see also' portion of this article. My version describes what medical students are doing (working toward a degree, either M.D. or D.O.). Hopping's is redundant, especially for a "see also". I would prefer that my version be restored. Other thoughts? http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Medical_school_in_the_United_States&diff=168877809&oldid=168877276 <font color="red">]</font><font color="blue">]</font> <sup><font color="darkred">]</font></sup> 04:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC) | ||
| :Usually I would agree with you, but in this case I think it is important that people reading the article be familiar with these terms. That said, I don't like how Hopping has a tendency to overuse the term "allopathic" in other articles. It should only be used when a direct comparison with osteopathic medicine is being made. ] 16:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
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M.D. / D.O.
Medical education in the U.S. means earning one of two, equivalent medical degrees. This is crucial point. Must be explained.OsteopathicFreak 17:21, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
- The degrees are not equivalent. (D.O.s receive some training that M.D.s do not receive.) The rights conferred upon the recipient of either degree, though not the same, are equal for all intents and purposes. (D.O.s may not use the post-numerary "M.D.", nor may M.D.s use the post-numerary "D.O.", but both get licensed in the same way.) People who possess one of the two may equally practice medicine in the United States. Antelan 05:31, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
- The training is not equivalent, but the final degrees are, legally. In some states, D.O.s can use the same post-numerary, i.e. they can legally put M.D. after their name, and even those that live in states that don't specifically allow it, common practice is to use M.D. anyway, a fact which no one seems to notice. There's not exactly that enforces D.O.s not to print M.D. on their business cards and name tag, they do it all the time. I'm not saying that the majority of D.O.s do this, BTW. I'm just saying there are quite a few that do.
- I can cite many standard reference texts that the two degrees are "virtually indistinguishable. Note that the degrees are not equal, but they are equivalent. High school diploma is not the same thing as a GED, they involve a very different process, but the two are equivalent.OsteopathicFreak 05:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
- You say, "There's not exactly (a law) that enforces D.O.s not to print M.D. on their business cards and name tag, they do it all the time." While that may be allowed in some states (which?), it is also expressly illegal in many states, such as Maryland. Other states, like Texas, have statutes governing precisely which titles an individual may use - and D.O.s and M.D.s may not use each other's titles. In Oregon, osteopathic physicians may not even use the title "physician" without a qualifier. I'm not pushing for content like this to get into articles; given the evidence, though, I can't see the rationale for calling the degrees equivalent. They confer equal rights to practice medicine, but are not equivalent. The first clause of the previous sentence provides an alternative, more-accurate wording that sounds just as good. Antelan 11:46, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
- A few points:
- I think the specific rules in different states regarding the post-nominal title is exactly the kind of content that would be valuable in Comparison of osteopathic and allopathic medicine or History of the relationship of osteopathic and allopathic medicine. You also mentioned some court case in New York on this topic, that would be interesting in the History article as well.
- I should have said: There's not exactly an enforcement agency that enforces D.O.s not to print M.D. on their business cards and name tag, they do it all the time. I'm just speaking anecdotally, not making a verifiable statement. For example, at the hospital I work at, the name badges are already printed with "MD" "RN" etc. And they have a machine that just fills in the docs name. So all the DOs name badges say MD. My point is only that it may be illegal, but that its regularly done.
- As far as the whole equivalent thing. I don't think there's a point in us arguing this, because I think we've both made our opinions clear. I have listed some sources that use the phrase "identical" and "virtually indistinguishable" and other similar words to compare the degrees. Except for the hypothetical scenario of an MD getting sued for practicing OMM, which seems reaching to me, I think the word equivalent is reasonably appropriate. OsteopathicFreak 02:40, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
- A few points:
- You say, "There's not exactly (a law) that enforces D.O.s not to print M.D. on their business cards and name tag, they do it all the time." While that may be allowed in some states (which?), it is also expressly illegal in many states, such as Maryland. Other states, like Texas, have statutes governing precisely which titles an individual may use - and D.O.s and M.D.s may not use each other's titles. In Oregon, osteopathic physicians may not even use the title "physician" without a qualifier. I'm not pushing for content like this to get into articles; given the evidence, though, I can't see the rationale for calling the degrees equivalent. They confer equal rights to practice medicine, but are not equivalent. The first clause of the previous sentence provides an alternative, more-accurate wording that sounds just as good. Antelan 11:46, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
- There's the OMM hypothetical and also the DO/MD title caselaw. The wording that you put into the article after my edits seems perfectly reasonable. Antelan 04:23, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Number of osteopathic medical schools
in the U.S. is now 25, with 3 branch campuses, making 28 locations total:
http://www.aacom.org/colleges/
Also the original link is inaccessible:
https://www.do-online.org/index.cfm?PageID=edu_main&au=D&SubPageID=sir_college
Ssc1997 04:56, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Osteopathic DO
Hopping is reverting my edits to the 'see also' portion of this article. My version describes what medical students are doing (working toward a degree, either M.D. or D.O.). Hopping's is redundant, especially for a "see also". I would prefer that my version be restored. Other thoughts? http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Medical_school_in_the_United_States&diff=168877809&oldid=168877276 Antelan 04:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
- Usually I would agree with you, but in this case I think it is important that people reading the article be familiar with these terms. That said, I don't like how Hopping has a tendency to overuse the term "allopathic" in other articles. It should only be used when a direct comparison with osteopathic medicine is being made. Nathanaver 16:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)