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WikiProject Palestine

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Re: signature

Hi there! I use a template in my userspace to generate my signature. Normally, you're not allowed to use templates in signatures, but I use template substitution to get around it. What you have to do is create your own template in the vein of mine, and then use a raw signature of {{subst:User:Pedro Gonnet/sig}} or whatever. You can format your timestamp using the variables outlined here. The only difference is, instead of signing with ~~~~, you'll have to sign with ~~~. The only other thing is that you should add yourself to Category:Users who have opted out of automatic signing, or SineBot will start duplicating your timestamp. If you need any other help, just post on my talk page. Cheers! east.718 at 18:55, 10/10/2007

Signature test

Testing, pedro gonnet - talk - 11.10.2007 07:55

structure

Hello Pedro,
Thank you for the message in French on my talk page.
I try to be more clear.

• I think the misunderstanding comes from the fact I talked about the structure of the "merged" article and you had in mind a structure for the second half : what concerns the cause. BUT I think we know understand each other concerning this.
• I don't have a structure to propose concerning this (even in French) because that is too complex (I come back later on this).
• I think there are 2 main points concerning which we have the same analysis :

1. the direct causes deserve a special section without the theories

2. the theories should be introduced by author or by theory but not in mixing them because that is not manageable.

Concerning my difficulties :

• CONTEXT

I think an article without context cannot be neutral BUT each scholar takes different element of the context to explain and put forward his own "theory". But it is well known and admitted that without a context, you cannot read events and according to the context, you can read them differently.

eg. Karsh/Teveth/Shapira/Gelber (from the most extreme to the less extreme) see

1. the war

2. the long antagonism between jewish and arab nationalism

3. the Arab regular armies threat

4. the mutul fears of each protagonist (the degree of which is controverse)

while

eg. Pappé/Khalidi/Finkelstein see

1. the "demographic issue" (in the transfer context whose intention is controversed).

2. the Irgoun and Lehi violence

3. the Haganah military superiority (which is controversed)

And somewhere in between, you have Morris who consider a melting pot

• So, how do we introduce the context ?
• DIRECT CAUSES

Morris gives some. But he doesn't give the same weight to them in his description, in the conclusion of his chapters, in his final conclusion and in the list of villages at the beginning of this article. Gelber give numerous of them.
But some people (such as Pappé or Finkelstein) claim that this list of causes has only as purpose of "hiding" the real cause : the intention of Yishuv and Ben Gurion. So how to deal with them ?
Another problem is that each scholar, according to his sensitivity and his thesis give a different weight to each cause. So, how to introduce them with their due:weight ? Having in mind each editor will claim "his" scholar gives the right weight or -at least- will claim the weight his scholar gives to a quote should be respected ! (and this leads immediatly to the run to the "quotes" as performed by some).

• ANALYSES

According to what will have been written here above, be sure that ANY analysis can look true or false, convincing or biased. In French, I am confident I can write a context that would fit any of these analysis and make believe others are completely biased and that is what I have the personal feeling some editors currently do in the article.
But whatever how to deal with that ?
In summary :

1. I share you 2 main ideas but I don't know how to go deeper into details with that structure.
2. I don't see how to deal with the controversy respecting NPoV.

Alithien 12:29, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

context

Unfortunately, the context is not described in 1948 Palestinian exodus.
I think indeed you are too optimistic. Let's see. Alithien 14:18, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks once more for your French, which is extremelly good !

Here is the context in the article 1948 Palestinian exodus : . 2.5 lines on my screen :-)

I think in the context lack all the elements given by the scholars when they perform their analysis.

I gave them here above (war - demagraphical outcome - transfer idea - plan daleht - past of huge violence - nationalisms - threat of extermination after 2WW - fears of extermination - fears of retaliations - ... all advanced by scholars)

18 months ago I made this trial but I am not satisfied any more by this : . Alithien 14:39, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

November 2007

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Request for Mediation

Hi Tariq

I'm a bit confused about this... Isn't this section for other parties to add issues? It is a related dispute in which both editors have been involved since a while and it would be helpful if it got cleared-up too.

I'm kind of new at WP:RFMs, so I'm probably doing something the wrong way... Do I have to get both parties to agree to add the Schechtman dispute to the mediation?

Cheers and thanks, pedro gonnet - talk - 12.11.2007 14:26

The problem as that you're not one of the parties. That section is really for GHcool (talk · contribs), the signatory under "Parties' agreement to mediate" who wasn't the one who filed the mediation, to add other issues. -- tariqabjotu 14:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus

Hello, Pedro. Thank you for commenting on the Morris quotation in this article. Might I ask you where precisely in that quotation you find that Morris says that the exodus was ethnic cleansing? Screen stalker (talk) 13:46, 19 November 2007 (UTC)