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Article milestones Date Process Result July 28, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted September 14, 2007 Peer review Reviewed September 21, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed November 15, 2007 Peer review Reviewed November 22, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed Current status: Former good article nominee

Software: Computing

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Archive 1 through January 2005. Archive 2 April2005 - August 2005. Archive 3 June 2005 - June 2006. Archive 4 June 2006 - October 2006 Archive 5 October 2006 - April 2007 Archive 6 April 2007 - October 2007 Archive 7 Reviews (FA,GA,peer)

Romanian Flag

Nu ati vrea sa punem negru in locul albastrului?? Vad ca deja toate le faceti pe dos. Nicaieri nu am vazut ca steagul tarii mele sa arate in asa hal. Vreu sa vad exact si de unde ai scos voi bleu-marin-ul, ala ie drapelul Chad, nu al Romaniei. Hai go ahead si arati sursele unde zice ca steagul ieste asa daca sunteti asa de corecti. ComUSSR 9 October 2007

I posted here: Talk:Flag_of_Romania#Flag_colors nobody responded. -- AdrianTM 05:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok...the only words i got were "Nu = no; asa = like this; drapelul = flag; Romaniei = Romanian?; etc"...seriously use English when communicating on English Misplaced Pages talk pages...it makes it easier for all of us who edit the English-language Misplaced Pages...anyways...using the very very limited Romanian I know and my knowledge of the French language, I am guessing that ComUSSR is complaining about the flag using the shades of Blue, Yellow and Red that Chad uses and not the actual shades that Romania uses, and he wants it corrected?...am I on the money? nat 06:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Yep, I should have translated, but it sounds like a rant rather than an argument so I passed... simple, he/she says that the flag colors are wrong, I posted a link to my comment about the issue. -- AdrianTM 06:28, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes I requested the change of the currently wrong Romanian flag. And I think Im right. Go wherever you want on any site and I guarentee you that this isn't the Romanian official flag. Thanks Adrian. You should change it right now. We'll see what others will say. ComUSSR October 10th, 2007

I asked User:AdiJapan the user who created that flag for permission, we can wait to see what he has to say. Thanks. -- AdrianTM 19:55, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm definitely not an expert in conversion from Pantone into RGB, but as far as I know there is no unique widely acceptable conversion table. So in my opinion we shouldn't try to use by all means the numbers that are currently listed in the article, since they might be wrong. I would rather try to use RGB colours that look more like what we all know our flag looks like. An to be honest, the 'Flag_of_Romania.svg' (darker version) looks a lot more like the real flag than the 'Romanian_flag.svg' (lighter version). This second version (the lighter one) is just too light. For all three colours. In conclusion, I would stick to the old version. Alexrap 08:58, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Then we need consistence in that article, probably the numbers are wrong (I used the numbers provided in article) -- AdrianTM 12:29, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with that. Someone with more experience in these issues should probably take care of it. Alexrap 13:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

What's happening then? At the moment an unregistred user changed the image in this article (linking to the file with the new ligher version). Shall we keep this new image or we should rather use the previous one? (I would go for the second option) Any comments? Alexrap 11:15, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I created that file based on the numbers in the article, but I don't necessarily advocate using it -- I have limited knowledge in this field, I will let other people decide, I do advocate for consistency between numbers and colors of the flag. -- AdrianTM 11:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Limiting editing to registered users?

In the last day there were at least 5 edits by unregistered users that were reverted due to vandalism. Is it possible to do something?Nergaal 18:35, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I actually think that entire Misplaced Pages should allow only registered users to post. You can't ban millions of IP addresses of each vandal, creating an account is not painful but at least would deter some lazy vandals. -- AdrianTM 18:40, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

5 edits is nothing, and no there is nothing practical to do about it. If there's an admin around he or she might be persuaded to semi-protect the page so that only registered users could edit, but I doubt it, 5 is really mild. Some of the Agricultural pages like Domestic pig or Chicken go for scores of edits without any change to the substance, just vandalism/revert over and over again. Still can't get semi-protection for some of them, because "it's not serious enough" or by the time you get an admin to look at it, it's not recent enough. Just deal with it and watch the page so you can keep fixing the vandalism.--Doug. 00:19, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure how, but yes, there is. I think we should limit editing privledges. It's a mess. Basketball110 (talk) 00:07, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Geography

Romania, as i learned in school in in central-south Europe. It is... 2000 km from the western most point of Europe, it it 2000 km from the eastern most point of Europe ( the Ural mountain chain), it is 2100 km from the northern most point of Europe , and 1000 km from the southern most point in Europe. So.. why does it say in the first sentence it's in eastern Europe?. I don't think it's wise for me to change it without approval, but i am kindly asking you guys to look into it.

Numaru7 01:21, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree with this, and this has been discussed before, however we are not allowed to introduce "original research" and besides Romania has already placed in "Southeastern Europe" by... guess who.... Western Europeans, on basis that it's at East from them and on the basis of old political considerations that are now mostly irrelevant, however this geographic travesty unfortunatelly will stick unless you find couple of good references that place Romania in other geografic category, which I doubt... (also, Europe is not a square to make things easy to place) -- AdrianTM 01:54, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I knew about "south-east of Central Europe", but if you can find some other references that's great. --Venatoreng 11:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

GA failed

I am sorry to say that this article still needs a lot of work to get it up to GA standard

• The thing that sticks out the most to me is the lack of refs in the article. Many sections do not have refs. It is ok to not have refs if the daughter article is reffed but in most cases teh daughter articles have no refs

Just to clarify: from your comments bellow, I see only the last ~half of the article (Culture, Government & Sports) suffering from this issue. Is that right? Or your statement was referring to more than the last half?Nergaal (talk) 11:22, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

The last half suffers more than the first half, but the first half still has a few places thin on refs. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

• On many refs, the full date, author, accessdate, publisher is not recorded. Please record this where applicable

Wasn't full editing of references a FA standard? (a good part of the references do have significant details but stuff like full date and publisher are not allways awailable.)

That's true, but in some cases there was info but it wasn't included. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

also, what is accessdate supposed to show exactly?Nergaal (talk) 11:22, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

The date that you inspected the webref basically. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

• In the sport section, I find it unusual that you have gone into detail of listing individual players as then it would be very hard to balance and work out which people deserve personal mentions. eg, what about Gabriela Szabo and so forth. In most articles, specific players are not mentioned unless they tower above all others. In any case, it is not necessary to note the clubs that Hagi played fro, that is irrelevant to Roomania at large. Noting ever grand slam winner is not feasible and secondlt the Romanian rugby team is not competitive at all. But anyway, the entire section there is unsourced. ACtually there is nothing about sport culture among the people, it is just a list of a few famous sportspeople

the statement rugby team is probably superficial and borderline snubby. If the information hereby is not well presented then state that and before you go ahead and make statements ilke "it is not competitive at all" it might be wise (at least as and admin) to do a little bit of research before denigrating. I am just going to say that in Rugby union, the country is usually rated atound 15th place.Nergaal (talk) 11:22, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Well maybe that is because I am from Australia. I just checked the results of the 2007 WC again and losing 85-8 to NZ and then 42-0 to SCO is a sign that they are a weak team. Even if they are a good team on a bad day, conceding 50 points once is what would be expected. In 2003 they lost 90-8 to Australia and 50-3 to Argentina. This shows that they are not causing much problems for a world-class team at all. These scores are about the same as losing 4-0 or 5-0 in a soccer match, which is a lot.

'second tier' IRBNergaal (talk) 14:32, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Personally I'm for removing the reference to rugby, Romanian team is not good and the sport is not even popular in Romania, I think somebody introduced that because they play (or they like) rugby and wanted to support the sport, but this is pretty much useless and doesn't provide info. -- AdrianTM (talk) 14:58, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

...simiarly, all the references to gymnastics and tennis should be removed since neither of them are actually popular (and not really successful anymore either). Therefore the section 'Sports' should be renamed to 'Football'. Nergaal (talk) 16:54, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

While I appreciate your attempt of humor, ha ha ha, I don't think that Romania is really known for Rugby, but even if temporarily the gymnastic team is not _very_ good (it's still better than 99% of other countries) I still think that many people when they think of Romania they think of Nadia Comaneci and Romanian gymnastic team, but be my guest include info about any sport you wish, that was only my opinion... -- AdrianTM (talk) 17:00, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

That was not my point. IN THE PAST Romania was competitive in both gymnastics and rugby. I agree that in gymnastic (only feminine though) is more competitive than rugby. But in rugby union, it is still only one of the 12 countries that has participated in all of the world cups (which by the way is the only statement about rugby). Anyways Romania is definetily more competitive in rubgy than in tennis (and if you ingnore 2 people, tennis means and meant nothing to Romania). As far as popularity, gymnastics is not even really broadcasted anymore. Leaving all of this aside, I believe that this is an encyclopaedia, where stereotypes should not be propagated, but where facts are presented. Therefore, keeping gymnastics for the sake of stereotypes (see Quintuplets 2000) and not for the sake of encyclopaedic relevance is a bit off. Nergaal (talk) 17:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, in case the stereotype is of encyclopedic proportion it should be mentioned, in case of football Romania never reached the success of gymnastics, but I would actually like to see both criteria used: success and popularity, both with references: for example number of gold medals in Olympiads for gymnastics and number of practicants (if we have such a number for football) I don't think that rugby meets any of these two requirements: no medals and not too many paricipants (unless I'm wrong about that) -- AdrianTM (talk) 17:52, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

• POV like "when the "Golden Generation" was at its best." no sources and describing specific mathces.
• Foreign relations section is completely unsourced
• Counties section is not sourced
• Ditto for politics
• Science is not really part of culture and suffers from teh same type of problem that the sports section does in that it talks about personaliteis rather than the bigger picture, eg, how much is the research budget etc. It mentions an astronaut bbut does not talk about the general space program at large.
• Monuments is again not sourced directly or in teh daughter article
• The Arts section is again heavily dependent on a list of personalities rathe than discussing the cultural art picture of Romania at large.
• Culture section unsourced
• The economy section is relatively good
• History section has undue weight on post CEaucescu. Most of the events in this period were normal electoral transitions, so there is not that much to say in that respect. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:08, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree that some of the sections in the last half are geared too much towards specific people rather than general trends. I also agree that some sections in the last half do suffer from underreferrencing. Thanks for the input but seriously, this was a GA review not an FA one.

ps:This is rather simply my curiousity: the GA-review are done by a single person or by a group of people? I am asking this because last time this was GA-reviewed the feedback did notseem to be this overwhelmingly negative.Nergaal (talk) 10:36, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

GA is done by a single person. Unfortunately, I do tend to be one of the harsher markers in GAC. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

left to do

• The thing that sticks out the most to me is the lack of refs in the article. Many sections do not have refs. It is ok to not have refs if the daughter article is reffed but in most cases teh daughter articles have no refs Not done
• On many refs, the full date, author, accessdate, publisher is not recorded. Please record this where applicable Not done
• In the sport section, I find it unusual that you have gone into detail of listing individual players as then it would be very hard to balance and work out which people deserve personal mentions. eg, what about Gabriela Szabo and so forth. In most articles, specific players are not mentioned unless they tower above all others. In any case, it is not necessary to note the clubs that Hagi played fro, that is irrelevant to Roomania at large. Noting ever grand slam winner is not feasible and secondlt the Romanian rugby team is not competitive at all. But anyway, the entire section there is unsourced. ACtually there is nothing about sport culture among the people, it is just a list of a few famous sportspeople Not done
• POV like "when the "Golden Generation" was at its best." no sources and describing specific mathces. Not done
• The Arts section is again heavily dependent on a list of personalities rathe than discussing the cultural art picture of Romania at large. Not done
• History section has undue weight on post CEaucescu. Most of the events in this period were normal electoral transitions, so there is not that much to say in that respect.  Not done

HELP!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Diplomatic_missions_of_Romania --Sambure (talk) 14:05, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Relgion

I would like to contest the "secular state" statement. Religion is taught in school, and Orthodox priests do the teaching. Recognized religions in Romania receive government money, the Orthodox church receives much more than any other religion, and Orthodox leaders are on the board that decides new applications for a religion to be recognized, so that they can dictate who is and is not recognized and who does and does not receive money. There is only a small handful of recognized religions, and those that are not recognized must operate as non-profit organizations, paying high property taxes, making it almost impossible for a religion to grow to an officially recognized status without a massive international organization behind it. So I would hardly call Romania a secular state.

I think that the December 27, 2006 law mentioned in the article is also a manifestation of this problem. Requiring 20,000 members for a religious organization implies a need for an organizational structure which is inhibited by the property tax laws I just mentioned. I do not know of the official statements made by Romanian government that it is a secular state, but if such a statement has been made then it is very contestable. Jacobjojo (talk) 17:40, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe the constitution defines Romania as a secular state Nergaal (talk) 21:26, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, in general, Religion teachers teach religion, people that finished Theology, but are not priests. --Venatoreng (talk) 16:53, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

This page has had about 45000 hits

during November and is in the top 500 of wiki charts Nergaal (talk) 00:47, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

on 438 place from 500. Treaba buna Nergale.Edgesusedarea (talk) 15:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Treaba buna, indeed.

Too long?

I don't think the article is too long. I think the longer, the better! Basketball110 00:59, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

TWSS. Actually, I think it's a bit too long, especially some of its sections. The history section needs to be trimmed quite a bit. Other sections seem fine lengthwise, although some sections (such as tourism) should exist, and others should be merged, for instance geography and administrative units. 21:47, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion-Maybe we should turn it's sub-sections into sections. Basketball110 22:01, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Latins

Are Romanians part Latins? They were -- obviously, even the name gives it away, part of the Roman Empire.

I'm Romanian; most of the people there consider themselves Latin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.59.228.131 (talk) 21:16, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I think they're culturally Latin in the sense that they descend from a Romanized province. --Venatoreng (talk) 16:46, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

What would their ethinicity be? Latin still? I've checked the Latin Union website and it says so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.158.70.135 (talk) 02:34, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Things to do:

For those that want to help:

• find references for the 37 'citation needed' tags that are throught the article (except the Arts subsection)
• rewrite the Sports and the Arts section (to be more about the topic in general and less about several specific names)

Nergaal (talk) 07:29, 11 December 2007 (UTC) Check external links —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nergaal (talk • contribs) 22:38, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Images

An anonymous user made some of the images huge. --Venatoreng (talk) 16:44, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Bucharest

I think it's best to write the whole population of Bucharest which is about 2.5 millions. Român (talk) 17:15, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I thought it was 2.2. Basketball110 16:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Internet Penetration

The last two paragraphs in the Economy section contain unverified and possibly inaccurate information.

The percentage of computers connected to the internet in the country reaches almost 70% and more than 50% have broadband connections reaching a 4 Mbit/s (megabits per sec) average. From this aspect, Romania is the 10th country in the world with a bigger percentage of people connected to the internet than the USA.

The only reference given is to a poll conducted in Romania. The numbers claimed here are not supported by the numbers in the poll. And according to a more reliable source the second claim about Internet penetration is blatantly wrong. Can somebody please verify these claims, fix them if they are wrong and provide adequate references? Hritcu (talk) 20:45, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree—this sounds like a very dubious claim to me. Note that there is a Category:Broadband Internet access by country, with some 30 countries listed, but Romania is not there (I would imagine it would be, if it would be in the top 10, no?) Also, note the article on Broadband Internet access in Europe, where we only find out that "Broadband internet has been available since 2000" in Romania--no other claims there. Finally, take a look at Communications in Romania#Broadband Internet access: there are all sorts of details there (how current are they? are they reliable -- no source is given), but I can't find a Top 10 claim there, either. All in all, I think the claim, "Romania is the 10th country in the world with a bigger percentage of people connected to the internet than the USA" (which is not even grammatically sound) should be removed from this article, pending serious verification. Turgidson (talk) 22:25, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Follow-up comment: According to this source, as of July 2006, "Romania was approaching the average European rate of internet use", which hardly sounds to me like Top 10 in the World. Maybe things have changed since, but note that the reference given in this article, "Românaşul High-Tech" (hardly a title inspiring confidence, at least for encyclopedic purposes!) is from February 2006, so — what gives? Turgidson (talk) 22:34, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I have heared recently something like there are 6-7 millin internet users in Romania.Nergaal (talk) 11:26, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Alternate names

Both Rumania and Roumania redirect here; both have been (recently) used of Romania, and Rumania happens to be my idiolect. I see no reason not to include them, if only as an assurance to the reader that she is in the right place. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:53, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

It may be "imprudent for a foreigner to dogmatize on English usage", especially for "someone whose fluency in English is not that of a native speaker", and is graciously encouraged to "read the English literature, if you can". But yes, it's Romania, not Roumania or Rumania, regardless of what your idiolect says. Next question? -- Turgidson (talk) 19:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

It is all three. Roumania is a Gallicism after fr:Roumanie; I say idiolect because I believe Rumania is British English, which I normally do not speak. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Roumania and Rumania can be found in older maps and international documents. All three are acceptable, but "Romania" is much more common nowadays. nat.utoronto 21:38, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Nat -- I'm not sure what you mean by "acceptable". Of course, it's a free country, one can write anything any which way—even Roomania, I guess. But in all modern international dealings and documents, scholarly journals, all serious newspapers and magazines—in other words, the vast majority of reliable sources—and, last, but not least, here at Misplaced Pages, it's Romania. The other spellings are way obsolete and musty. As for the above claim that "Rumania" is (current) British English, well, how so? Just ask BBCRomanian.com, or check Country profile: Romania at the Beeb. -- Turgidson (talk) 23:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

No one is proposing to rename the article; merely to note that these names, which do occur in current writing, do in fact mean Romania, and not, say, Rumelia. As far as I can tell from the Google result, Roomania doesn't. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:13, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

And no one with a basic understanding of Logic and the English language would mistake my comment as implying that I thought someone is "proposing to rename the article". This kind of argument is called a red herring, or setting up a straw man. What I said (if one is to read carefully what I said), is that Rumania and Roumania are "obsolete and musty" spellings, with no current usage in reliable sources. Period. -- Turgidson (talk) 21:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Which is nonsense; reliable sources which use them in the title are cited. If Turgidson would explain why this matters to him, we might be able to converge on a solution. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:03, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Of course, this is discussed (and referenced) in the section on Etymology, and in Etymology of Romania. That's the proper way to do it—not bolded, in the first sentence of the lead. See WP:POINT, WP:MOS, WP:UNDUE, etc. Turgidson (talk) 18:16, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The only bold word in the first sentence is Romania. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:38, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

If fr:Roumanie is "now deprecated", someone had better tell the French Misplaced Pages. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:26, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Clearly you have no basic knowledge in French and at least you should know that country names in French are very different from English. For example: Etats Units - States United. --Eurocopter tigre (talk) 20:55, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

So what's your point? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

There is no consensus to add Rumania/Roumania in the article. Sources added by me contradict your claims clearly. --Eurocopter tigre (talk) 21:11, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Nonsense. The fact that most people use Romania, which nobody disputes, cannot contradict the fact that some English-speakers use something else. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:15, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Non sequitur. Yes, some people mispronounce the name of the country. So what? Some avid golfers call it Rumenia. Should we also have that in the lead? And some people mistake Bucharest for Budapest, and vice-versa (especially in English-speaking countries). Should we mention all the possible confusions in the leads of the articles on Bucharest and Budapest? Where would that stop? Turgidson (talk) 22:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

If you check Google Scholar for the word "Rumania", there are 18,400 results with most of the material publish from the 1940s to the 1990s. "Rumania" had been a popular form with scholars and international diplomats. nat.utoronto 22:37, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• A third of it is published in the 2000s; the first page here contains a result by one Oprescu, published in Bucharest. To insist further on this minor matter is to be more correct than the Romanians themselves. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Nat: Of course, I don't dispute the fact that "Rumania" was used in English in the old days — to do so would be silly of me. What I argue is that (1) essentially no serious, reliable source would use that spelling nowadays, unless they want to expose their ignorance (please do correct me if I'm wrong in this assumption); and (2) the proper place to discuss the etymology of the name, its various variants and spellings, etc, is in the Etymology section (and, of course, in Etymology of Romania). What I argue against is cluttering the lead (especially, the first sentence) with such a discussion, which sounds very peripheral to the real subject of the article. Turgidson (talk) 23:33, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Anyone who reads the first sentence will see that the "clutter" consists of four words, which are part of a parenthesis which exists anyway - for the Romanian spelling and the pronunciation. If it makes for compromise, I would be willing to place some of them ("less common" and perhaps Roumania, which is less common than Rumania) inside the footnote, but that would mean removing the express acknowledgement that Romania is indeed the most common form. Let me know. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:10, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

From WP:NCGN In the lead "Any archaic names in the list (including names used before the standardization of English orthography) should be clearly marked as such, i.e., (archaic: name1)." Rumania is an archaic spelling for Romania (both in English and Romanian, in English it seems that most of the recent results point to Romania while old ones point to Rumania which support the idea that's archaic usage) -- AdrianTM (talk) 16:30, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I would also be content with "now largely historic"; archaic in WP:NCGN is intended to have its common meaning, of terms no longer in use, which is not true here. The standardization of English orthography, after all, took place while Rumania was still Moldavia and Wallachia. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:15, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Pmanderson, you have been reported for breaking the 3RR in this article. Here's the link - . --Eurocopter tigre (talk) 16:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

The most simple way to end this useless discussion would be to start a poll in which editors would support/oppose the inclusion of the so called "alternate names" in the article. Anybody agree? --Eurocopter tigre (talk) 18:22, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

No, m:Polling is evil and slow, and the combination of an offer to poll with an effort to get the other side blocked has its dubious features.

There are two ways for Eurocopter to settle this right now. I have made no less than three compromise proposals immediately above. Eurocopter can either specify which of them he finds most acceptable and we can install them; or he can explain why he declines all compromise and insists on acknowledging only the official name, to the inconvenience of our readers and against our policies. If we understand his reasons, we can accommmodate them. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:36, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Please stop talking as I would be the only who opposes the inclusion of those "alternate names". In fact, I think you are the only one who supports their inclusion. Your so called "compromises" are unnacceptable for me and other users involved in this discussion. Also, you are the only one who terribly seaks to add these "alternate names", as a revenge resulting from the discussion on Talk:Iaşi-Chişinău Offensive. Let's see if somebody would agree with a poll, so we would stop this endless discussion. --Eurocopter tigre (talk) 18:45, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Please answer my question: which of these compromises would you find acceptable? ("None" is a perfectly good answer, but please stop delaying; a poll will take five days.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Which of your comments do you actually call them "compromises"? And why you would not accept a poll? --Eurocopter tigre (talk) 18:53, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

• To exclude "less common" or move it to the footnote.
• To include "now largely historic"
• To move Roumania, as least common of the three, to the footnote.

Polling will take days, and has all the evils mentioned at m:why polling is evil; nor can it really justify suppression of fact, see WP:NPOV. But if Eurocopter can bring himself to accept any combination of the proposals above, we can end this now. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:06, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Eurocopter; a poll would be best (once Pmanderson has served his block). Epbr123 (talk) 19:21, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

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