| Revision as of 19:31, 5 September 2008 editNoroton (talk | contribs)37,252 edits →Proposals, discussions: proposal← Previous edit | Revision as of 19:39, 5 September 2008 edit undoCENSEI (talk | contribs)1,318 edits →Statement by party1: ughNext edit → | ||
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| :''Best if we can keep these clean and reserve disagreements for the "discussion" section or for each editor's own statement - ] (]) 19:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)'' | :''Best if we can keep these clean and reserve disagreements for the "discussion" section or for each editor's own statement - ] (]) 19:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)'' | ||
| ===Statement by party1=== | ===Statement by party1=== | ||
| The Weathermen, Dohrn and Ayers have all been widely described by law enforcement, the judiciary, journalists, scholars and elected officials as terrorists. The only reason any of them have any notability notable is because they were involved in acts of violence and attempted murder, widely considered to be terroristic in nature by the afore mentioned sources. Note that nowhere in any of the articles are any of the subjects or their actions described as terrorism or any derivative of the term terror unless sourced with the proper NPOV qualifier. Example: | |||
| The Dohrn article: <blockquote>While Dohrn was leader of the group,went underground in early 1970, and engaged in a series of bombings. Its activities have often been described as terrorism, although some, including Dohrn's husband, Bill Ayers, also a leader of the group, have disputed that description. The FBI, on the same Web page in which it describes organization as a former "domestic terrorist group", includes a picture of Dohrn. The Encyclopedia of Terrorism has an article on Dohrn.</blockquote> | |||
| And the Weathermen Article: <blockquote>Since 1970 the Weatherman organization has often, but not always, been classified in America as a domestic terrorist organization. "Within the political youth movement of the late sixties (outside of Latin America), the 'Weathermen' were the first group to reach the front page because of terrorist activities," wrote Klaus Mehnert in his 1977 book, "Twilight of the Young, The Radical Movements of the 1960s and Their Legacy". Neil A. Hamilton, in his 1996 book on militia movements in the United States, wrote, "By and large, though, these Weathermen did not rely on arming and training militia; instead, they resorted to terrorism."</blockquote> | |||
| Nothing is said without a high quality, reliable and mainstream citation and not without proper attribution in the text. All meaterial contributed is well withing ], ], ], ], ] and ] | |||
| This RfC is not necessary, a waste of time and a distraction. Wikidemon should be reprimanded or warned for wasting all of our time. ] (]) 19:39, 5 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ===Statement by party2=== | ===Statement by party2=== | ||
| ==Statements by uninvolved parties== | ==Statements by uninvolved parties== | ||
Revision as of 19:39, 5 September 2008
Request for Comment: Description of Weathermen as "terrorists"
- In the past several months repeated disagreements and edit warring have arisen regarding whether Misplaced Pages should describe the Weathermen, and their various members, as "terrorists".
- Articles affected include:
- Weatherman (organization)
- Bernardine Dohrn
- Bill Ayers
- Barack Obama (and child articles)
- Obama–Ayers controversy
- (possibly others)
- Relevant issues include:
- Designating the Weathermen as "terrorists"
- Describing various acts as "terrorism"
- Identifying the organization with the word "terrorism" (e.g. in the lead, when the organization is introduced in other articles, etc)
- Covering, or noting, that the group is widely described as terrorist
- Covering, or noting, that some people have described them as terrorist or that there is disagreement as to the label
- Where to put the material - one article or many? In a section? In the lead? Footnotes? In BLPs?
- Applying terrorism-related categories to these articles
- Relevant policies, guidelines, and essays
- Issues specifically avoided:
- This is deliberately intended not to be a discussion of editing process or editor behavior
- Please keep discussion focused on the content question and not on other editors - if you have a complaint about another editor there are other forums. Should editing abuse become a problem on this page we should discuss that at some other page or a subsection here.
- Notification of involved parties:
- (will complete later - feel free to self-nominate or withdraw - Wikidemon (talk) 19:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
- Party1
- Party2
Statements from involved parties
- Best if we can keep these clean and reserve disagreements for the "discussion" section or for each editor's own statement - Wikidemon (talk) 19:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Statement by party1
The Weathermen, Dohrn and Ayers have all been widely described by law enforcement, the judiciary, journalists, scholars and elected officials as terrorists. The only reason any of them have any notability notable is because they were involved in acts of violence and attempted murder, widely considered to be terroristic in nature by the afore mentioned sources. Note that nowhere in any of the articles are any of the subjects or their actions described as terrorism or any derivative of the term terror unless sourced with the proper NPOV qualifier. Example:
The Dohrn article:
While Dohrn was leader of the group,went underground in early 1970, and engaged in a series of bombings. Its activities have often been described as terrorism, although some, including Dohrn's husband, Bill Ayers, also a leader of the group, have disputed that description. The FBI, on the same Web page in which it describes organization as a former "domestic terrorist group", includes a picture of Dohrn. The Encyclopedia of Terrorism has an article on Dohrn.
And the Weathermen Article:
Since 1970 the Weatherman organization has often, but not always, been classified in America as a domestic terrorist organization. "Within the political youth movement of the late sixties (outside of Latin America), the 'Weathermen' were the first group to reach the front page because of terrorist activities," wrote Klaus Mehnert in his 1977 book, "Twilight of the Young, The Radical Movements of the 1960s and Their Legacy". Neil A. Hamilton, in his 1996 book on militia movements in the United States, wrote, "By and large, though, these Weathermen did not rely on arming and training militia; instead, they resorted to terrorism."
Nothing is said without a high quality, reliable and mainstream citation and not without proper attribution in the text. All meaterial contributed is well withing WP:V, WP:RS, WP:NPOV, WP:BLP, WP:WEIGHT and WP:TERRORISM
This RfC is not necessary, a waste of time and a distraction. Wikidemon should be reprimanded or warned for wasting all of our time. CENSEI (talk) 19:39, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Statement by party2
Statements by uninvolved parties
Statement by party1
Statement by party2
Proposals, discussions
I propose that edits to any of these articles that follow WP:TERRORISM be allowed. -- Noroton (talk) 19:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)