Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 08:49, 11 December 2008

"Poor Maria" from A Sentimental Journey ... that one 18th-century reader was so offended by some chapters of Laurence Sterne's 1768 novel A Sentimental Journey Through France and Italy (scene pictured) that they glued the pages shut? ... that only two people are known to have seen Du Toit's torrent frog alive? ... that Jeanne Trevor's name was misspelled on the cover of her first album? ... that the Sitaleshwar Temple remained a place of worship even when it was in ruins? ... that the comet C/1975 T2 (Suzuki–Saigusa–Mori) was independently discovered by five observers within the span of half an hour? ... that viewers of an Indiana TV station's newscast in 1995 could send emails to the presenter live on air? ... that the diary of Erich Lassota von Steblau is an important primary source on the 16th-century Zaporozhian Cossacks of Ukraine? ... that nearly half of the wins achieved in 2024 by the San Jose State Spartans women's volleyball team were by forfeit? ... that Japan's oldest expressway is intended to be transformed into a park? Archive Start a new article Nominate an article

This page is for nominations to appear in the "Did you know" section (reproduced on the right) on the Main Page.

Instructions

Using a DYK suggestion string (see below examples), list new suggestions in the candidate entries section below under the date the article was created or the expansion began (not the date you submit it here), with the newest dates at the top. Any user may nominate a DYK suggestion; self-nominations are permitted and encouraged. Thanks for participating and please remember to check back for comments on your nomination.

DYK criteria

• DYK evaluation includes:

• Length - The Article should contain at least 1,500 characters in main body text (ignoring infoboxes, categories, references, lists, and tables). This is a mandatory minimum; in practice, articles having more than 1,500 characters of prose still may be rejected as too short, at the discretion of the selecting administrators.
• Verification - The DYK hook fact in the article needs an inline cite at the end of the sentence and the article in general should use inline, cited sources.
• Date - The new article should be no more than five days old and the expanded article should be expanded at least fivefold with new text within the last five days.

• Length

• DYK qualifying characters: To count the number of characters in a piece of text, you will need to use a JavaScript extension like User:Dr pda/prosesize.js (instructions on the talk page), a free website like this, or an external software program that has a character-counting feature. For example, if you are using Microsoft Word, select the text from the article page (or, in the case of "Did you know" nominations, this Talk page) – not the edit page containing Wikitext – then copy and paste it into a blank document. Click "Tools" ("Review" in Office 2007), then "Word Count", and note the "Characters (with spaces)" figure. Other word processing programs may have a similar feature. For Mac users, Apple has a Word counter widget available for Mac OS X 10.4 or later. Note: The character counts indicated on "Revision history" pages are not accurate for DYK purposes as they include categories, infoboxes and similar text in articles, and comments and signatures in hooks on this page.
• Lists: Proposed lists need 1,500+ characters of prose text. The listed items themselves are not counted as part the the 1,500 DYK qualifying characters

• Verification

• Suggested facts (the 'hook') should be:
  1. interesting to draw in a variety of readers,
  2. short and concise (fewer than about 200 characters, including spaces),
  3. neutral,
  4. definite facts that are mentioned in the article, and
  5. always cited in the article with an inline citation.
• Please note that hooks are subject without notice to copyediting as they move to the main page. The nature of the DYK process makes it impractical to consult users over every such edit. In particular, hooks will be shortened if they are deemed too long: the 200-character limit is an outside limit not a recommended length. Also, watch the suggestions page to ensure that no issues have been raised about your hook, because if you do not respond to issues raised your hook may not be featured at all.
• Articles on living individuals must be carefully checked to ensure that no unsourced or poorly sourced negative material is included. Articles and hooks which focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals should be avoided.

• Other issues

• Pictures: Pictures accompanying the DYK hook should be:
  1. freely licensed suitably and freely (PD, GFDL, CC etc) licensed (NOT fair use) because the main page can only have freely licensed pictures;
  2. suitable, attractive, and interesting at a 100x100px-wide resolution;
  3. already in the article; and
  4. relevant to the article.

• Sounds: Sounds accompanying the DYK hook should have similar qualities to pictures, and should be formatted using {{DYK Listen|filename.ogg|Brief description}}

Sample DYK suggestion strings

Please use one of the strings below to post your DYK nomination, using the "author" and "nominator" fields to identify the users who should receive credit for their contributions if the hook is featured on the main page.

1. Nom without image: {{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= }}
2. Nom with image: {{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= | image= | caption= }}

   To include more than one new or expanded article in a single hook: |article2= |article3= |article4= | (etc)

   To include more than one author: |author2= |author3= | (etc)

   To include alternate hooks: |ALT1= |ALT2= | (etc)

   To add a comment: |comment=

   To add the article you reviewed: |reviewed=

Do not wikilink the article title, or the author username field; the template will wikilink them automatically. Do wikilink the article title in the hook field, however.
Do not add a section heading if you are using the template; the template will add one for you.
Do not include a signature (~~~~) after the template.
Do not use non-free images in your hook suggestion.

• When saving your suggestion, please add the name of the suggested article to your edit summary.
• Please check back for comments on your nomination. Responding to reasonable objections will help ensure that your article is listed.
• If you nominate someone else's article, you can use {{subst:DYKNom}} to notify them. Usage: {{subst:DYKNom|Article name|January 23}} Thanks, ~~~~

Symbols

If you want to confirm that an article is ready to be placed on a later update, or that there is an issue with the article or hook, you may use the following symbols (optional) to point the issues out:

• {{subst:DYKtick}}
• {{subst:DYKtickAGF}}
• {{subst:DYK?}}
• {{subst:DYK?no}}
• {{subst:DYKno}}
• {{subst:DYK?again}}

You may notify the nominator of problems with {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}}

Please consider using {{subst:DYKproblem}} on the user's talk page, in case they do not notice if there is an issue.

Next update

DYK queue status There are currently 6 filled queues. Humans, please consider promoting a prep to queue if you have the time! v t e Earliest time for next DYK update: 00:00, 24 January 2025 (UTC) Current time: 13:35, 23 January 2025 (UTC) Update frequency: once every 12 hours Last updated: 95 minutes ago( verify reset purge )

Backlogged?

This page often seems to be backlogged. If the DYK template has not been updated for substantially more than 6 hours, it may be useful to attract the attention of one of the administrators who regularly updates the template. See the page Misplaced Pages:Did you know/Admins for a list of administrators who have volunteered to help with this project.

Candidate entries

Articles created/expanded on December 11

M138 bomblet

Template:DYKsuggestion at 07:03, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• I will be adding an image eventually, also, if needed because of an abundance of suggestions this article could probably be easily combined with M43 BZ cluster bomb (suggested below) with a new hook incorporating both articles. --IvoShandor (talk) 07:03, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Cal State Fullerton Titans football

Template:DYKsuggestion at 03:34, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Mughal road

• Template:DYKsuggestion at 06:19, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 10

Wally Grout

Wally Grout

Template:DYKsuggestion at 08:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Citibank House

Template:DYKsuggestion at 05:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Mark Rosenberg & Robert Shapiro (film producer)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 03:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Cyrille Pierre Théodore Laplace

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:09, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
**ALT1: .. that in Tourane, the local government believed that Cyrille Pierre Théodore Laplace and his crew were hiding a large army in their ships hull?

• • ALT2: ...that although his crew were merely taking geological observations, the British Government believed Cyrille Pierre Théodore Laplace had claimed New Zealand for France?

Victor Simunja

Template:DYKsuggestion at 00:16, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Marky Cielo

Template:DYKsuggestion

Ozarka College

Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:44, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

New York Board of Rabbis

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:57, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Indomito class destroyer

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:45, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

WJDB-FM

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

M43 BZ cluster bomb

Template:DYKsuggestion at 17:57, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Liu Ji (general)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 17:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

M34 cluster bomb

Template:DYKsuggestion at 15:40, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Canarian Houbara

• ... that the Canarian Houbara is the largest bird native to the Canary Islands? new article, self-nom by Maias (talk) 11:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Olaus Michael Schmidt

Template:DYKsuggestion 12:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

List of Australian inventions

Template:DYKsuggestion Cbl62 (talk) 07:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Citations need work on this, and a more extended intro would help. I'll try to improve, but any Aussies who find this interesting may want to help out. Cbl62 (talk) 08:13, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Garden Gnome Liberationists

Template:DYKsuggestion Cbl62 (talk) 07:40, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

The hook is actually supported by a CNN story on the Garden Gnome Liberation Front! Cbl62 (talk) 07:40, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• It's a great hook and I was really excited to verify it and say "who could say no to this?" .... but, looking at the article, it looks almost like a joke to me. The lead-in, especially, is really over the top...I don't know whether to call it {{in-universe}} or something else, but I think (unfortunately) that stuff all needs to be cleaned up before we can even look at the value of the rest of the article. —Politizer /_contribs 07:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Kind of amusing but is obviously unencyclopedic in tone. Gatoclass (talk) 08:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Just "kind of amusing"? Cbl62 (talk) 08:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, I didn't read all of it. Just enough to identify it as a prank. :) Gatoclass (talk) 10:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I've now rid the article of the objectionable content, and I truly believe there's a legitimate article there about a phenomenon that has received widespread coverage in the mainstream media as well as motion pictures (Amelie) and video games.Cbl62 (talk) 10:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Article is up for deletion \ / (⁂) 04:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

John W. Fuller

Template:DYKsuggestion Cbl62 (talk) 06:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Burnt House

Template:DYKsuggestion

This one's not ready to be reviewed yet, but it's such a good subject I'm putting it line so it isn't overlooked. If Bloger doesn't clean it up himself, I'll see what I can do. The basic facts are described in this article, this one], and Frommers. Cbl62 (talk) 06:28, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

George Muter

Template:DYKsuggestion Cbl62 (talk) 06:07, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Curiosity Kills the Cat (film)

Template:DYKsuggestion Cbl62 (talk) 05:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

The Betrayal (film)

• ... that no print is known to exist of the 1948 Oscar Micheaux-directed film The Betrayal? (New article, self-nom) Ecoleetage (talk) 01:51, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified, ref 7 checks out. – RyanCross (talk) 01:56, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Not a terribly exciting hook though - there are lots of films which have been lost. Got anything better? Gatoclass (talk) 08:08, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1: ... that the 1948 Oscar Micheaux-directed film The Betrayal was the first race film to have its premiere in a Broadway theatre in New York City? — Dravecky (talk) 21:35, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified through reference. It could just be me, but before clicking on the link I was a bit confused by the term "race film", since I was thinking of this. Perhaps something more specific and noticeable like "was the first film with an all-black cast..." would be better (that's what the ref says, too)? Just a tweak idea. JamieS93 03:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

State Street Bridge (Harrisburg, Pennsylvania)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:40, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Date and 5x expansion verified, online ref verified. Everything is in order. Nsk92 (talk) 03:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Peter Harboe Castberg (banker)

Template:DYKsuggestion 13:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 9

Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla

Template:DYKsuggestion Thelmadatter (talk) 00:31, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Whittier Hotel

Template:DYKsuggestion Cbl62 (talk) 00:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

United States Council of Mayors

Template:DYKsuggestion at 21:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Wittelsbach Diamond

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:34, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Autonomous Republic of Northern Epirus

Template:DYKsuggestion at 08:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• History and stuff verified. I added Cplakidas to the credits. Quick question for other reviewers out there: most of the online sources for this are .doc or .txt files for download. Is there any consensus or gut feeling or anything about using those? Of course, they're better than no source at all, but I think a lot of people don't like opening .txt, or especially .doc, from their browser.
• But in any case, I don't think it's enough to bar this nomination; it's just something I was wondering about. —Politizer /_contribs 09:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Note that this article has been nominated twice on this date. Manxruler (talk) 10:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Correct. I nominated it a couple days ago. The original hook proposal is set forth below (I've relocated it here so both hooks are in one place). Cbl62 (talk) 10:47, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Template:DYKsuggestion Cbl62 (talk) 01:10, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Hmmm, I prefer Alexikoua's nom, although we ought to add "(flag pictured)" there. Constantine ✍ 11:26, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Arts and Crafts Exhibition Society

Template:DYKsuggestion at 06:38, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Henry Maundrell

Template:DYKsuggestion --Wetman (talk) 02:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Date and length of the article verified. However, sorry, but the hook suggested is pretty terrible and, IMO, unsalvageable. First, the hook refers not to a fact but to an unattributed statement of opinion. That is always a bad choice, especially for an article that is actually filled with interesting historical facts. Second, the hook seems to be some kind of a strange WP:ORish conflagration of two different sources. The bit about still being a good read seems to come from a long quote from the 1964 article of Mohamad Ali Hachicho (that occurs in the beginning of 3-d paragraph and, incidentally, is lacking an inline citation). However, the reason quoted in the hook for why it is still a good read, namely the "precise, factual information" is actually taken from a different reference, to the article of Daniel Howell. The phrase "precise, factual information" does occur in Howell's article (but not in Hachicho's), but even in Howell's article this phrase is used not as a contemporary (1964) reason for the interest in the book but rather to explain why at the time of the book's original publication Maundrell's friends found the book interesting: "Thus when Maundrell's diary, crammed with precise, factual information, began to circulate among his friends they quickly realized that here at last was one of the first factual accounts of the antiquities of the Middle East." Sorry, but this is just a terrible mess of a hook. I suggest to the nominator that you write a completely different purely factual hook for the article. Nsk92 (talk) 03:09, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Huh? Suit yourself.--Wetman (talk) 03:33, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

ALT: ... that A Journey from Aleppo to Jerusalem at Easter A.D. 1697, based on the diary of Henry Maundrell, chaplain to the Levant Company in Syria, was translated into French, Dutch and German by 1792? - PKM (talk) 06:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Better (although I think a more interesting hook could be given for this article). The ALT hook was just a little over the 200 character limit and I shortened it very slightly. However, the bit about him having been chaplain to the Levant Company in Syria still needs an in-line cotation in the sentence where it occurs in the article (which seems to be the opening sentence). Nsk92 (talk) 13:53, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Chemical Agent Identification Set

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:51, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• The picture here is one of the sets, but it is a bottle of sulfur mustard as well. --IvoShandor (talk) 01:52, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Henry Reuterdahl

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:03, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Date and length of the article verified, online ref verified. Everything is in order. Nsk92 (talk) 01:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

WWE Tribute to the Troops

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• 1524 characters now, but very sparse. Do you think you can expand it more in the next day or two? —Politizer /_contribs 01:05, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes I do. ayematthew ✡ 01:09, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Hurricane Karl (1998)

• ... that 1998's Hurricane Karl (pictured) was one of four simultaneous hurricanes in the Atlantic Ocean at one time during its duration, the first such occurrence since 1893? –Juliancolton 23:22, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Length, creation date, and fact referencing verified. It might be more interesting to work in the fact that over 100 years ago was the last known occurence of four hurricanes at once. JamieS93 02:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Added. Thanks for the approval, –Juliancolton 02:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Cromemco Dazzler

Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:17, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Pansipit River

Template:DYKsuggestion

William Rosenwald, Jonah Wise and United Jewish Appeal

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

What's Cooking? with Jamie Oliver

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Note, that's a wax figure of Jamie. -- Zanimum (talk) 20:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realize that. No wonder he looks so shiny! I will try and see if I can find a real image, with proper licensing. Gary King (talk) 18:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I have replaced the image with an image of the real Jamie Oliver. Gary King (talk) 19:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Barton Fink

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:58, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Jan Pawel Pietrzak

Template:DYKsuggestion at 17:40, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

"Whom" is generally used of people. Is the skin color of the Marines involved relevant?--Wetman (talk) 23:43, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

If those are the only objections, I would use a rather than a . Art LaPella (talk) 07:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

African American has been removed from the article, so it can be removed from the hook, too. To some, like Pietrzak's mother, it is relevant, to some it is not. Now, it is up to the admins if they want to keep it. Tymek (talk) 04:39, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Malta Pavilion

Template:DYKsuggestion at 17:05, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Chlorociboria aeruginascens

Template:DYKsuggestion at 14:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

1927 (band)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 11:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

--Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

E77 balloon bomb

Template:DYKsuggestion at 08:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

--IvoShandor (talk) 08:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Woodside Plaza

Template:DYKsuggestion at 07:04, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

computational lithography

Template:DYKsuggestion at 05:46, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• The hook is referenced in the article, but most of the article is incomprehensible to me, and probably to most other readers. I don't think we can feature it unless it gets rewritten in layman's terms. —Politizer /_contribs 06:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Executive Order 13128

Template:DYKsuggestion at 03:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Self nom:--IvoShandor (talk) 03:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

This should be just over the limit of characters (if it's still the same) if it's not just note it here and I will try to expand a bit. --IvoShandor (talk) 03:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Article seems short to me -- and thin in content. Also, the article should clarify the current status of this executive order. The first sentence uses the word "was", implying that it has been cancelled, but it appears to me from the rest of the article that the order is still in effect. --Orlady (talk) 17:53, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

It is still in effect, I altered that part, added a date for the Commerce rule. I am looking for more sources but there don't appear to really be any more, so if you don't want to use it that's okay. --IvoShandor (talk) 01:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Just a note to anyone: I think this article does meet the minimum requirement, despite it seeming short, but 1500 characters isn't really very long.--IvoShandor (talk) 09:28, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I did manage to find a couple more sources and beefed up the article a bit, it should be well over the minimum character limit now, as well as not being so thin on content, hopefully this satisfies any objections. --IvoShandor (talk) 10:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Jim Foster (activist)

• ... that Jim Foster and Madeline D. Davis were the first two openly LGBT people to address a major American national political convention when they spoke to the 1972 Democratic National Convention? OR
• ... that Ted Kennedy credited LGBT and Democratic activist Jim Foster with his victory in the 1980 California Democratic primary? - self nom, article created today. Otto4711 (talk) 02:46, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Bill Paparian

Template:DYKsuggestion 02:48, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Stick candy

Template:DYKsuggestion at 05:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Shouldn't this be merged with Rock (confectionary)? Looks like a US/Brit language difference to me. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 17:04, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I guess it's something like the difference between chorizo and salami. We have articles on dozens of national varieties of sausage. The length and diameters don't appear to match, and the spiral, barber-pole pattern isn't mentioned in the "rock" article; instead; "rock" has a very distinctive lettering pattern which is quite unknown in the U.S. One is a British tradition and the other is a U.S. tradition, with regional differences. Badagnani (talk) 20:02, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• I've never heard of "Rock" except Rock candy which is something else again. The American candy has a long history and is very recognizable for its swirl pattern and the wide variety of flavors. I'm not sure what you Brits have been up to, but it doesn't look or sound especially appetizing. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

George Muter

Template:DYKsuggestion at 05:15, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 8

Mia Nihta Zoriki

Template:DYKsuggestion at 02:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

California Avocado Commission

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Careysburg, Liberia

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Colman nepos Cracavist

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

David Ross (businessman)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Fairview Creek

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

History of the flags of Romania

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Nāradasmṛti

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

NGC 6118

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Preflexes

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Robert S. Beightler

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Taping River

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Thaumatichthys

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• Length and date good, offline hook ref accepted in good faith, image confirmed as PD. --Bruce1ee 06:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Walter Balderson

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Arthur Schultz

Template:DYKsuggestion at 22:03, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Thomas Leavitt (inventor)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 08:09, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Linda Greenlaw

Template:DYKsuggestion at 22:34, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Live-line working

Template:DYKsuggestion at 22:07, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1 ... that live-line working (procedure pictured) involves making contact with a power line that may be energized up to 1,150,000 volts. -- Suntag ☼ 01:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• That particular picture is of someone who is not carrying out live working, but is equipped for it as a precaution should the equipment become live. Also, it is for a voltage considerably less than 1150 kV, but probably more like 20 kV, judging by the size of the bushings on the transformer. He's dressed for hot-glove work, which is definitely unsuited for the higher voltages. — BillC 02:15, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Maurice Garin

• ... that Maurice Garin, The Little Chimney-sweep, won the first Tour de France in 1903? (pictured) Article expanded 7 fold by User talk:Les woodland. Nominated by Autodidactyl (talk) 20:22, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

or ... that Maurice Garin won the first Tour de France but was stripped of his second victory in mysterious circumstances, because nine riders were suspected of getting rides and tows from cars and railway trains?

or ... that Maurice Garin was stripped of his second victory in the Tour de France in mysterious circumstances, because after multiple instances of cheating (nails, thugs, sticks, stones, tree-trunks, drugs and guns), nine riders were suspected of getting rides and tows from cars and railway trains?

Nendrum Monastery

• ... that the ancient, but lost, Nendrum Monastery was found in 1844, when a visitor recognized the remains of a round tower? Strawless 18:45, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified, ref 2 and 8 checks out. – RyanCross (talk) 01:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

AMX-30

Template:DYKsuggestion at 17:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• I make it ~5kb text to ~30kb of prose text (discounting infobox, refs, etC), so a fairly clear fivefold increase there. And plenty of free images, too... Shimgray | talk | 19:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Clay-Ashland

Template:DYKsuggestion 11:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified. Just over 1500 characters, and ref 4 checks out. – RyanCross (talk) 02:03, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1 ... that, in Liberia, the country founded by freed slaves from the United States, the township of Clay-Ashland is named after a U.S. slave holder? -- Suntag ☼ 01:50, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

S. A. K. Durga

Template:DYKsuggestion at 04:08, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

The Eternal Light

Template:DYKsuggestion at 03:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• The article must be linked from the hook (see "Unwritten" Rule B1). So:
• ALT:... that the Jewish Theological Seminary of America produced the NBC radio and TV program The Eternal Light commercial-free for 45 years, with the show's producer saying "God needs no sponsor"? Art LaPella (talk) 05:20, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, of course. Changed accordingly.  JGHowes  14:21, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Internet Watch Foundation and Misplaced Pages

Template:DYKsuggestion at 02:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1 ... that on December 5, the IWF blocked access to the Virgin Killer article in the UK by adding it to a blacklist of websites it deems "potentially illegal" due to the albums cover featuring a nude prepubescent girl? (edit conflict) This alt is over the 200 char limit by 7 characters, but I still think that it could be considered, All the Best, --Mifter (talk) 02:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

*Although this hasn't yet appeared in the "In the news" section, it may in the future. ITN is a better place for it anyways. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 02:44, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, that's a good point, as it stands now, I don't think that this is currently covered enough in external news sources for an ITN feature, but that could be an option, if enough more news sources feature this and DYK decides to reject it ITN would be a good place for this, but I'd rather wait for more input from other editors before making a final call :). All the Best, --Mifter (talk) 03:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

How many external news sources do you need? Google News search identifies 273! It is being discussed at ITN. Gwinva (talk) 04:10, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Well, a bunch of them are just copies of the Associated Press article about this whole thing :P, but I get your point about the large amounts of news coverage this has had ;), also I can't find any rules that say an article can be featured on both ITN and DYK also we've had articles in the past that have been featured in ITN and DYK :). All the Best, Mifter (talk) 23:16, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

ITN have rejected it so it's up for grabs here, if DYK feel it's appropriate to display an article about WP. Gwinva (talk) 23:10, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

We've featured articles about Misplaced Pages in the past, See here, but each case is different and as such each case is decided individually :). All the Best, Mifter (talk) 23:20, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Without endorsing self-censorship, not every Misplaced Pages article is suitable for presentation on the Main Page.--Wetman (talk) 23:56, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

This page was in the ITN queue briefly and may or may not have made it to the main page. DYN-notification messages were sent out to several editors of the article. If it hit the page, it's technically ineligible but since it was taken off the list quickly WP:IAR may apply. The article is rapidly evolving and I think we should wait until things settle before putting this up. This may extend this to 6 or 7 days after article creation but again WP:IAR may help. There is another factor: DYN is supposed to highlight things that people may not know. After the extensive news coverage, I'm inclined to reject this outright on the grounds that the limited DYN space is better served by a topic people might not be familiar with. I'll retract this if we can get a good, interesting hook that wasn't covered in the major media. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 00:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Just FYI, I caught it on the Main Page in ITN, I'll let someone else hunt down the diff but I saw it there. --IvoShandor (talk) 09:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

It was up for less than an hour, see

• Removed by BorgQueen Revision as of 05:03, 9 December 2008:
• Added by User:Master of Puppets at Revision as of 04:16, 9 December 2008:

davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 16:08, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Humphrey Bate

Template:DYKsuggestion Cbl62 (talk) 00:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

2009 Orange Bowl

Template:DYKsuggestion JKBrooks85 (talk) 23:57, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Australian plague locust

Template:DYKsuggestion at 21:25, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Battle of the Severn

Template:DYKsuggestion Yachtsman1 (talk) 19:05, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

The article must be linked from the hook ("Unwritten" Rule B1). ALT: ... that the Battle of the Severn, the final battle of the English Civil Wars, was fought in Annapolis, Maryland, in 1655, four years after the war had concluded in England? Art LaPella (talk) 19:49, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, this is the first time I have ever nominated an article. I made the change up top.--Yachtsman1 (talk) 20:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Fuligo septica

Template:DYKsuggestion at 17:39, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date, hook, and image verified. -- Suntag ☼ 00:28, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Main Synagogue of Barcelona

Template:DYKsuggestion at 05:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Creation history and ref verified. Long enough in my view, although lots of scope to expand; other reviewers may wish to double-check. A picture would be beneficial, but I can't find any on Commons. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 12:41, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• A little caution would be preferable in both hook and article; from the only very authoritative source (the Call association) it seems not really confirmed that this was the site of the synagogue in 1267, let alone a thousand years earlier. Clearly everyone is happy to create a new tourist attraction, but we should use some qualification. One would expect some academic articles if it were the "oldest synagogue in Europe". The excavated ruins in Ostia (Rome) and Stobi (Macedonia) appear to be older, and the synagogue converted to church at Elche in Spain of the 4th century or earlier. All of these are in ruined state with mostly just floors remaining, whereas Barcelona, if they have the right building, has perhaps been in continuous use (as something) since antiquity. So I think a hook is there, but needs restating. The New Jersey Jewish News is not the ideal source for a claim this large. This book, too early to cover Barcelona deals with the main very old synagogue sites. Johnbod (talk) 18:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

  ALT: ... that the Main Synagogue of Barcelona may be the oldest synagogue building still standing in Europe? Johnbod (talk) 18:57, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

As discussed on the article's Talk page, I found a single academic source about the reconstruction of the synagogue, but I can't access it. I've modified the article to say that the synagogue "has been described" as the oldest in Europe and added another newspaper source. The alternate hook fits. — ] (] · ]) 19:50, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Charles Wellford Leavitt

Template:DYKsuggestion Cbl62 (talk) 03:59, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Fascinating article, but I have a couple of concerns before I can approve. The ref relating to the Kykuit estate indicates Leavitt designed the approach roads and was asked to do the landscaping etc. as well, but the commission was eventually given to another designer. Also, some of the references, such as , and , consist of text which would be better integrated with the article. There are then bare URLs within these sections which would have to be formatted appropriately. Overall, though, it's nearly ready. (Length, creation history and Forbes Field ref verified.) Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 13:01, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

The work on the Rockefeller estate seems pretty limited, so how about the following alt hook:

• ALT1 ... that the works of landscape architect Charles Leavitt include gardens for Walter P. Chrysler and William C. Whitney, the grandstands at Forbes Field, and racetracks at Saratoga and Belmont? Cbl62 (talk) 23:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

List of Dallas Mavericks head coaches

• ... that none of the Dallas Mavericks head coaches have been elected into the Basketball Hall of Fame as a coach? self-nom, created article. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 02:31, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified. Ref 8 checks out. – RyanCross (talk) 03:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Coppermine Expedition of 1819–1822

Template:DYKsuggestion

• Correctly cited in the article with more than one offline ref. Length and creation history are fine. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 13:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Holy Land USA

Template:DYKsuggestion

• alt ... that Holy Land USA (pictured), a Connecticut theme park intended to replicate Bethlehem and Jerusalem of the biblical era, once attracted upwards of 40,000 visitors annually? Cbl62 (talk) 03:33, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified. Either hook works out. Ref 1 of The New York Times article checks out. – RyanCross (talk) 03:39, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps retain the alt hook for 25th Dec, and move to the "DYKs relevant to December 25, 2008 holidays" subsection...? Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 21:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Not a bad idea, but I would say no, only because Holy Land USA was not a Christmas site, per se -- it also covered the Old Testament and Jesus' ministry. Ecoleetage (talk) 03:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Josef Klehr

Template:DYKsuggestion at 10:23, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Date, length and reference verified. Olaf Davis | Talk 17:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 7

St. Charles Borromeo Roman Catholic Church

Template:DYKsuggestion Cbl62 (talk) 00:29, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

White City Amusement Park

Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:36, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

WJBE

Template:DYKsuggestion at 17:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

El Mashad v. Bush

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Habeas corpus is perfectly familiar and shouldn't be mysteriously piped.--Wetman (talk) 00:12, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
• ALT1 ... that the named petitioner in the habeas corpus case of El Mashad v. Bush, Egyptian Sharif el-Mashad, was in the clothing trade before being sent to the Guantanamo Bay detention camp? -- Suntag ☼ 13:21, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Eugene Goodman

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Trading halt

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Twist lifts

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Jacob's Well

Template:DYKsuggestionTiamut 13:02, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Another good one by Tiamut. Offline hook accepted, length and date good. — BillC 00:18, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks BillC. It's so kind of you to say so. :) Happy editing. Tiamut 00:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Weekly Manga Times

Template:DYKsuggestion at 06:30, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Alt 1 ... that Keizō Tsukamoto set a Guinness World Record by creating the cover art for more than 1900 issues of Weekly Manga Times starting in 1970? Cbl62 (talk) 06:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Mianus River Gorge

Template:DYKsuggestion at 06:10, 8 December 2008 (UTC) dm (talk) 06:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Thompson Pond

Template:DYKsuggestion dm (talk) 05:05, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

2008 ACC Championship Game

Template:DYKsuggestion JKBrooks85 (talk) 23:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

ColorGraphics Weather Systems

Template:DYKsuggestion 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Rolf Ketil Bjørn

Template:DYKsuggestion at 21:32, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Date, length and reference verified. Manxruler (talk) 22:05, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

SS Princess Sophia

Template:DYKsuggestion - I know I've technically nominated this, but at User:Shinerunner's suggestion, so the credit is really his for finding this. Benea (talk) 16:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Here's an alternative hook that tells a bit more about the controversial end of the Princess Sophia. Cbl62 (talk) 06:42, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• alt 1 ... that all 343 persons on the SS Princess Sophia died in 1918 when the ship was grounded on a reef near Juneau, Alaska, the captain decided not to evacuate, and the ship sank the next day? Cbl62 (talk) 06:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

The precise number aboard the ship that day is not known, figures in the official reports suggest that the number was at least 343, but may have been slightly more. On a minor note, formatting guidelines call for the ship name to be italicised, but not the prefix, so SS Princess Sophia. Benea (talk) 08:42, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

William Gordon Harris

• ... that William Gordon Harris's tenure as Director-General of Highways at the British Ministry of Transport saw the construction of 650 miles of motorways? - self-nom, new article - Dumelow (talk) 11:39, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Khedive Palace

Template:DYKsuggestion at 09:34, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Ref. only says it has one of the first steam powered lifts, nothing about an "original" lift or a tower. Gatoclass (talk) 12:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
• Alt-... that the terrace on top of the 1907-built Khedive Palace in Istanbul, Turkey is accessible also by a historic steam-operated elevator? CeeGee (talk) 16:23, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

History of Pulicat

• ... that during the history of Pulicat between 1621 and 1665, over 38,000 Indian slaves were obtained by Dutch slave traders and shipped from the Coromandel Coast (pictured), mostly to the East Indies? New article co-nominated by Nvvchar (talk) & Marcus (talk) 06:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Thomas Allin

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:04, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• alt ... that Thomas Allin, who served with Nathanael Greene in the American Revolutionary War, later became a surveyor for the "Transylvania Company"? Cbl62 (talk) 22:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Suits me either way. Acdixon 05:28, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 6

St. Bonaventure Monastery

Template:DYKsuggestion Cbl62 (talk) 00:45, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date and hook refs verified. --Bruce1ee 07:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Half Acre, Alabama

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Neat hook, but right now the article falls short of the 1500-character minimum. Not counting the headings and numerical coordinates, the article is 1448 characters long. Also, the article cites note 1 for the hook fact, but I didn't see the hook fact referenced there. With a bit more work, it may qualify. Cbl62 (talk) 06:16, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I do see the "Hell's Half Acre" reference in fn. 1 source. Cbl62 (talk) 06:19, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

14"/50 caliber gun

Template:DYKsuggestion at 05:31, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Tom Krieglstein

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Newfoundland Royal Naval Reserve

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:06, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date, hook all check. Cbl62 (talk) 06:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Acute decompensated heart failure

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Ashley Day Leavitt

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Ball Bearing (Lexus)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Consumer Protection Safety Improvement Act

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Elections in England and Wales, 1949

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Enos Lowe

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Erasmus Ommanney

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Galoter process

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Henry Frederick Stephenson

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Hindu Titles of Law

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

HM Bengough

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Miracle of the roses

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Mars Ocean Hypothesis

Template:DYKsuggestion at 12:12, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Two slightly picky queries about this, both related to the first reference which is cited for the hook fact in the lede (and which I've added a link to in the reference). My first concern is about the name: the capitalisation suggests to me that it's an established term, but the paper cited doesn't mention the phrase. Do other works in the literature, or is this just a convenient name for the article? If the latter I'd advocate renaming it to 'Mars ocean hypothesis'. My second and more major point is that the paper talks about a third of the surface being covered by "standing bodies of water and ice" (emphasis added). It does say that "the bulk of this water would have existed as an ice-covered ocean", but it's not clear without reading the whole paper whether that 'bulk' is still over a third. Does the rest of the paper say it is? Apart from those two small points, the article (date, length, source) checks out. Olaf Davis | Talk 17:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• These are two issues which I believe the article creator will have to address. User:Scholar743 has been notified. BTW at the time of nomination ref #1 was an offline ref which I took in good faith; Olaf has since made it an online ref. --Bruce1ee 05:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Cannabis in New Zealand

Template:DYKsuggestion at 11:52, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1 that cannabis (dried flowered bud pictured) is the most widely used illegal drug in New Zealand? -- Suntag ☼ 18:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Hook is supported, but I would like to see a more substantive lead-in section written before passing this. (even just repeating/summarizing stuff from elsewhere in the same article would be fine.) —Politizer /_contribs 06:04, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• I added a substantive lead-in section. -- Suntag ☼ 20:45, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for writing that; I have added Suntag to the credits. I was about to verify this, but I noticed that the sentence where the fact for ALT1 comes is located was directly copied from the ref. I (or anyone else) will have to look more closely at the rest of the text in this article before verifying anything. I'm not rejecting this outright because the plagiarism was probably not malicious (it's a pretty simple sentence and simple fact that would have been hard to say differently anyway), but it is plagiarism nonetheless and needs to be looked into. —Politizer /_contribs 00:39, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• I started trying to verify the article. It's a lot of work. It is a good DYK requirement where a copied sentence is found, but I'm going to spend time on something else. -- Suntag ☼ 03:47, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Alan Liefting, if you can take the time to go through the article sentence-by-sentence and make sure none of the language is directly copied from your sources, I think we can probably take it on good faith. Someone needs to check everything for this nomination to continue; AFAIK it doesn't really matter who. —Politizer /_contribs 08:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Am unable to do a full revision of the article for at least a few days but as one who has attended a university that treats plagiarism seriously I can assure editors that I do not make a habit of it. Note that part of the article came from the Legality of cannabis article. Unfortunately I failed to mention this in the edit history. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 05:21, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Beech-maple forest

Template:DYKsuggestion dm (talk) 07:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• This hook is pretty uninformative for people who aren't familiar with ecology terms; it would help if you could suggest another. Also, while the article is technically over 1,500 characters, it is still quite sparse...if you could quickly expand it more while it's still under DYK review, it would be easier to pass it. One thing that could be added is information on the significance of beech-maple communities in ecology literature, research, etc., why it's important as a classification, and stuff like that. —Politizer /_contribs 08:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Sure, I was going for the short sweet and frankly shocking as in "I have to click this" hook. I'll see what I can do to further flesh out the article. Lets see if someone else comes up with a better hook. Thanks for the comments! dm (talk) 08:20, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Ohhhh, I didn't even think of that. Well, if other editors here think this might be a good way to hook some readers in, I wouldn't be opposed to passing it. (Although I think if we really wanted to go with that wordplay I think it would be more appropriate for the main article to be climax community...too bad it's not nice and new like beech-maple forest!) I'll give it a day or so to see what other reviewers have to say, and what you are able to add to the article. —Politizer /_contribs 09:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Could try this variation:

• ALT1 ... that the beech-maple forest is a climax plant community in the eastern United States and Canada?

Orlady (talk) 03:55, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

It would have to be Northeastern, it doesn't go below Virginia

• ALT2 ... that the Beech-maple forest is a climax plant community in the northeast section of North America?

dm (talk) 11:19, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I beg to differ regarding the geography. There's some beech-maple forest where I live in Tennessee, and at least one of the sources in the article describes this area as part of the range. Having never heard of the "northeast section of North America," if "eastern North America" is rejected, I'd call it "eastern United States and Canada". --Orlady (talk) 14:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Changed to eastern US and Canada, I like that wording better anyway. —Politizer /_contribs 15:37, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

That works for me. Thanks to both of you for improving the article. dm (talk) 23:47, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

The article lacks an inline source for the fact that this is a climax community. Also the article length is marginal (currently I count exactly 1500 characters without spaces). --Orlady (talk) 18:34, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I went back and added several references and more details. Please let me know if you think I need to keep developing the article. Thanks dm (talk) 01:50, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, what's going on with the adjacent to one another in the lead-in? Is that just an editing problem/typo, or is there something wrong with that source? —Politizer /_contribs 08:51, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I added the "citation needed" template. I saw no support for the idea that the two species alternate in dominance from one generation to the next, and because I doubted the accuracy of this statement I thought it needed to be supported. Someone else inserted the source later on, but did not delete the template. However, that particular source -- and much of the rest of the sourcing for the article -- is weak. It's an article about the natural history of a town in New York state, taken from the town's website. The article on the town website is thoroughly sourced to the types of tertiary sources that Misplaced Pages should be relying upon, but there's no indication as to who wrote the article. Because town governments are not known for their expertise on forest ecology, I see this source as weak. However, some of the other sources in the article are weaker -- a couple of them appear to be college students' webpages where they posted their notes from class lectures. The article has some good content and Dmadeo deserves recognition for "filling in the blanks" by documenting an important topic, but I am uncomfortable about featuring the current article in DYK because it relies heavily on sources that have essentially the same authority than a college freshman's term paper (I guess these could be called "quaternary" sources). --Orlady (talk) 15:13, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I understand what you're saying. Some of the ones that look like students notes are in fact the professors slides. There's lots of sources out there that cover most of the text, I agree the one sentence about growing in each other's shade is in the perinton website only as far as I can tell, so I will remove that. If you dont think this will make DYK regardless of what else I do here, I'll move on to something else. I dont have the books referenced in Oak-hickory forest and I dont have enough time/interest in this topic to buy them. dm (talk) 03:19, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Balance (Lexus)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 17:26, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Should make this a twofer with Ball Bearing (Lexus) below....

ALT ... that the Balance and Ball Bearing television advertisements for the Lexus LS 400 and ES 300, were highly honored and subsequently referenced by its competitors in their own advertising campaigns?

dm (talk) 11:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

MOS:TITLE doesn't specify whether TV commercials should be italicized or "quoted", but we should either italicize both or quote both. Art LaPella (talk) 07:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

fixed, my mistake, sorry. dm (talk) 12:33, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Raymond F. Lederer

Template:DYKsuggestion at 02:44, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Lederer was videotaped at a motel in New York on September 11, 1979, at a New York motel meeting with two undercover agents who presented themselves as representatives of a supposed Arab sheik. Accepting $50,000 in cash, he told the agents "I can give you me" in exchange for the money.

It would be good if the hook could say what Lederer's office was at the time. It now assumes that the reader knows or can guess, but it's not even clear that he was a politician. Dahn (talk) 01:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

How's this (ALT)*... that U.S. Congressman Raymond F. Lederer said "I can give you me", in exchange for $50,000 from two undercover agents posing as representatives of a fictitious Arab sheik in the Abscam investigation? -- Alansohn (talk) 13:19, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Collin Mooney

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:45, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Current hook exceeds the 200 character limit. It could be shortened as follows:

• ... that Collin Mooney (pictured) beat the single-season rushing record at West Point by one yard on the last play of his last college game, the 2008 Army-Navy Game? Cbl62 (talk) 06:01, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Judgment Day (2003)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:45, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Samuel Frederick Henry Thompson

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:13, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Current phrasing is a bit awkward to my ear. How about this alternative? Cbl62 (talk) 05:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• alt 1 ... that Samuel Frederick Henry Thompson, a British flying ace of World War I, scored 30 kills in five months of service and won both the DFC and MC?

Unforgiven (2002)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 17:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

• Hook fact verified, date & length fine. Chamal 13:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• BTW, the article says ...featured WWE Champion Brock Lesnar defeat The Undertaker to retain the title after both men were disqualified. How did one defeat the other and regain the title after both were disqualified? Is this a factual error or am I missing something? (I know nothing about wrestling, sorry:)) Can you please clarify and source this in the article? Chamal 13:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If both wrestlers are disqualified, the champion keeps his belt. Lesnar was the champion, and kept the title. ayematthew ✡ 20:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Am I the only one who thinks that these professional wrestling hooks should include some indication that the topic is professional wrestling? --Orlady (talk) 17:26, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• I agree; I've added professional wrestling to the hook. —Politizer /_contribs 17:33, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

No Mercy (2002)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 15:51, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Armageddon (2000)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 14:58, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Willamette Bearcats

Template:DYKsuggestion

Since that same fact was used for a DYK for Spec Keene, how about:

• ... that Liz Heaston was the first woman to score points in a college football game when she kicked an extra point for the Willamette Bearcats in 1997? Aboutmovies (talk) 09:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Expiring noms

Articles created/expanded on December 5

PJ Haarsma

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:53, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Turkish–Venetian War (1570–1573)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 14:19, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Bianca Riario

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Charles Willing Byrd

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Date, length are fine, but (picky, picky) source says he was Acting Governor of the Northwest Territory (not exactly Ohio). Smallbones (talk) 22:15, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1... that acting governor of the Northwest Territory Charles Willing Byrd once worked for American Revolutionary War financier Robert Morris? -- Suntag ☼ 02:04, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1 is simply marvelous. Smallbones (talk) 02:16, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• Yes, it's a nice hook, but I can't find the inline source citation that supports it. --Orlady (talk) 05:52, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• I added the inline sources to the article to support the hook. -- Suntag ☼ 08:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Gerald Ford Supreme Court candidates

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Granada Bridge (Ormond Beach)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Hiram Leavitt

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Jonathan Leavitt (publisher)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Morpheein

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

U-101 class submarine + U-107 class submarine

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• It would be nice to include the total number of subs planned. I get 35+9-3=41 (there were 3 overlaps, please check!). I suggest the following hook:

• ... that of the 41 U-101 and U-107 class submarines planned for the Austro-Hungarian Navy in WWI, all remained uncompleted and only five were laid down? --Bruce1ee 09:35, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• The U-107 class submarine article indicates that it is unclear how many U-107 sub were planned.-- Suntag ☼ 14:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• I just thought that having a figure to compare to the 5 laid down would add more weight to the hook. Perhaps we could use "of the about 40" or "of the over 30", but it's no big deal. --Bruce1ee 06:42, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1... that, of the approximately 40 total U-101 class submarines and U-107 class submarines planned for the WWI Austro-Hungarian Navy, all remained uncompleted and only five were laid down? -- Suntag ☼ 08:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1 verified, offline hook refs accepted in good faith. --Bruce1ee 08:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Monarchy in Ancient India

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

List of Cleveland Browns head coaches

• ... that there have been 14 Cleveland Browns head coaches since it was founded in 1946? Gary King (talk) 22:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
  • One character short of 1500 :) BTW, the hook's not that interesting. How about:

• • • ALT1: ... the first head coach of Cleveland Browns, Paul Brown (pictured), coached the team for 17 complete seasons?
      • Updated; it's now at "# Prose size (text only): 1572 B (271 words) "readable prose size"". Either hook is fine with me :) Gary King (talk) 18:44, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
        • JOKE ALT2: ... that the List of Cleveland Browns head coaches will need a new entry when the current NFL season ends? Daniel Case (talk) 16:20, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

John Baptist Medina Milton extra

Template:DYKsuggestion at 13:57, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually started Dec 7, but I think this should go on the Milton anniversary, where I believe it is different enough to be combined with one of the other group on the poems. Johnbod (talk) 14:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Milton 400th birthday set 3 of 5

Template:DYKsuggestion 00:19, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you need "John Milton (born 400 years ago today)" on DYK. The quatercentenary will be mentioned on Misplaced Pages:Selected anniversaries/December 9, right next to DYK all day (UTC) tomorrow. --PFHLai (talk) 17:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Not sure I agree - personally I rarely look at those. Johnbod (talk) 18:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• see also the extra Milton-related article immediately above. Johnbod (talk) 18:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Milton 400th birthday set 5 of 5

Template:DYKsuggestion 16:44, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Note to reviewer: Nothing personal to this nominator, but in the current revision the expansion on Samson Agonistes is only 4x (2495 characters to about 10,000 characters), 2500 short of the required expansion, so I have de-bolded it. The other article in the nomination is fine and may be reviewed. —Politizer /_contribs 16:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Check your math. The first one was 2400 characters and the current is 14215. Thats more than a 5X expansion. 5 times 2400 is 12,000. That gives a buffer of over 2,215 characters. Your statement is absurd, and your actions here are highly questionable. Ottava Rima (talk) 18:39, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Note, this is further verified by a KB check - 3.64k to 18.387k is 5.1x expansion, even before images, external links, and the rest are removed from being counted. Ottava Rima (talk) 18:46, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• What are you using to count? The poetry excerpts don't count towards DYK character count. I use User:Dr pda/prosesize.js, if you want to look into it. And I already provided a permalink to the version that I counted (the latest revision, at the time that I did it), so anyone who wants to look into it can easily check and see that I wasn't making anything up. —Politizer /_contribs 23:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• 1. Excerpts ALWAYS count. What doesn't count are bulleted lists. Excerpts are part of the prose. They always have been, they always will be. Reread: "Articles must have a minimum of 1,500 characters of prose (ignoring infoboxes, categories, references, lists, tables etc.)" Excerpts don't fall under that. 2. Its called a character counter. What you do is you copy all of the text, then you past it in. Its not hard. 3. The raw size count doesn't lie and shows that you are wrong. Ottava Rima (talk) 04:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the excerpts are quoted from a poem, which isn't counted for anyone. "Unwritten" Rule A2 specifies that "block quotes" don't count. Misplaced Pages:Etiquette may also be helpful. Art LaPella (talk) 07:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry LaPella, but we already had community consensus prove that your Unwritten Rules aren't actual rules nor have an authority here. That is your POV, nothing more or less. Does this need to go to Village Pump to have community consensus against you again like the last time you attempted this stunt with your "rules"? Block quotes are part of the very definition of prose. Its in the guidelines. Otherwise, you would be rewriting standards that affect FAC and GA. See here. "Specifically, for stylistic purposes, readable prose excludes: External links, Further reading, References, Footnotes, See also, and similar sections; Table of contents, tables, list-like sections, and similar content; and markup, interwiki links, URLs and similar formatting". Stop trying to disobey Guidelines without consensus. Ottava Rima (talk) 15:26, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Art and everyone else here have been using these unwritten rules, and prosesize.js, for months at DYK, and you have not provided a link to any "community consensus" against Art's rules. As far as I can tell, you have not expressed any concerns about the unwritten rules until they happened to exclude one of your articles. —Politizer /_contribs 17:18, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Block quotes are not included in the DYK character count and DYK no longer uses article byte size to measure article length. Also, LaPella's unwritten rules are listed at the top of this page just under official criteria. There presently is agreement to add LaPella's unwritten rules to the DYK rules. -- Suntag ☼ 17:47, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Block quotes have ALWAYS been included as prose, and that is what consensus has determined in our guideline. A handful of people relying on an "unwritten rule" determined by one individual cannot contradict consensus of the community. Its that simple. People want to get rid of DYK because of the above behavior of people trying to use DYK to override community consensus, so you should better stop immediately. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:22, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Also, Suntag's declaration about people accepting such a merge is completely inaccurate, because at least two people expressed concerns about such a merge. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Article size has nothing to do with determination of length for DYK purposes. DYK is about original content, illustrative quotes from literary works have never been counted. Gatoclass (talk) 04:32, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

It would appear that the growing consensus is that block quotes are not included in the prose count. However, isn't the issue moot anyway? So what if the hook has to be a single hook and not a double, it still gets on the main page. \ / (⁂) 05:48, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Tom Weisner

Template:DYKsuggestion at 04:39, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• This is a candidate for re-election in an upcoming election, and his only notability is being mayor of Aurora, Illinois (the job for which he is seeking re-election). Therefore, Misplaced Pages needs to be cautious about showcasing him on the main page in a DYK.
  The hook seems misleading as currently worded, in that it doesn't say that the WiFi installation attempt did not succeed -- I read the hook as indicating it was successful, but the article indicates that there were problems, and my reading of the sources indicates to me that the initiative has completely fizzled out.
  My gut instinct is that this article should not be featured in DYK; featuring it there could give him or his opponents some free political advertising (who gets the benefit depends on the hook's wording). --Orlady (talk) 22:46, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• I don't think DYK should exclude articles because it might give an advantage to one politician over another. However, hooks for candidate for re-election should receive heighten scruinty 'cause they got (or should have) the BLP and active politician tag on the talk page. -- Suntag ☼ 23:49, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• In October, I had multiple DYKs with candidates for public office. Both Richard Cordray (October 21) and Steve Driehaus (October 28) were placed on the mainpage. Weisner's race has less at stake because 1. it is a primary election; 2. the election is ten weeks away; 3. the race is only for a smallish city. 4. he is an incumbent. For each of these reasons he has less to gain from main page exposure than either of the above who were allowed on the main page. What gives with the new policy?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
• P.S. the book is still out on whether it was successful because as I understand it they have not decided what course of action to take.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:11, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Even if it's just an incumbent and even if he's already got the election in the bag, it is still an election. Some people might see us as tacitly supporting "the man" (or "the machine" or whatever you want to call it) by giving front-page mention to the mainstream candidate and not mentioning others. —Politizer /_contribs 06:20, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Why wasn't this an issue with Cordray or Driehaus. Everyone who wants to create an article has ten weeks to create one if they think Weisner has an unfair advantage. We are not giving him coverage on election day, but rather ten weeks before the primary.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:36, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
• You can take the template off while it is on the main page.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:37, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• I don't know what happened with Cordray or Driehaus. I was just giving my opinion on this issue; all I can say about those others is OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. —Politizer /_contribs 06:43, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Please consider proposing an alternate hook. I think that may help move things forward. -- Suntag ☼ 13:36, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Oh. I see. Here are some alternatives:

• (alt 1)... that Tom Weisner volunteered for the Peace Corps for five years in rain forests on the Island of Guadalcanal in the Solomon Islands?
• (alt 2)... that Tom Weisner resigned his position as Aurora's Director of Community Services during an E. coli bacteria outbreak in order to run for mayor?
• (alt 3)... that when Barack Obama visited Template:City-state three days after Democrat Tom Weisner's mayoral primary election victory he did not endorse him?
• (alt 4)... that Aurora Mayor Tom Weisner once considering outlawing untimely holiday decorations, when citizens complained of Christmas decorations abounding during the summer?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 15:10, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Hooks 2–4 are all somewhat negative—hook 2 is extremely negative, 3 is maybe not such a big deal (but still a bit negative for me), and 4 sounds like a criticism of his policy. This is the reason I have a hard time passing election-related noms....can't say negative stuff because of BLP, and can't stay positive stuff because of neutrality (unless you are making it a double-nom where you say something about both, or all, candidates). —Politizer /_contribs 15:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
• A little more about why I'm complaining about election hooks. I already mentioned that some of those hooks are negative, but even with hook 1, which is positive, we could still have issues. Let's say for arguments' sake that 30% of the people in this city don't like Weisner and don't plan on voting for him. If any of those people log onto WP when this is up and see WP saying "this is a great guy, he did Peace Corps!" they're going to lose a lot of respect for WP. —Politizer /_contribs 15:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Echoing Politizer: Regardless of what the hook says, I have a vision of the local newspaper or a local TV station running a news story about this guy's being featured on Misplaced Pages's main page. If the hook is neutral or positive, I also envision his re-election campaign using his main page appearance for public relations. --Orlady (talk) 15:40, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• OK, well, you probably should have stopped at 'alt 1. Alt 2-Alt 4 basically is saying someone at DYK is going to have to read through the article to make sure Misplaced Pages isn't going to highlight something that would negatively affect his political efforts by drawing additional attention to the article through a post on the Main Page. -- Suntag ☼ 00:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• The original hook is appropriate, and Misplaced Pages is not a place to dismiss things because of political considerations. The individual has fit under notability, and this should be approved. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:17, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Please stop bullying DYK editors around. I tried to leave you a polite note on your talk page and put this dispute behind us, but you seem to want to follow me around T:TDYK and challenge my comments. If you have a problem with me, fine, say whatever you want, but do it on my talk page or in e-mail, and quit disrupting DYK by picking fights. —Politizer /_contribs 23:44, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Personally, I agree with Ottava Rima. The guy passes notability. Compared to Chicago, Aurora is a small town, but it had a 170k population a year and a half ago and was growning. Aurora is not Mayberry. I have now proposed 5 hooks. It seems one of them is palatable. I don't know why I am jumping through hoops to get this guy onto the main page 10 weeks before a primary when I have already put candidates on the main page less than a week before a general election for statewide office and Congress.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:38, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• I don't think anyone raised any concerns about notability (or, at least, I didn't; I might have missed some other comments up above). As far as I can tell, it's more about neutrality. But I'm not the one making who's going to be the decision on whether or not to promote this hook, so I'm not going to reject the hook for these problems or anything; I was just pointing out my impressions. —Politizer /_contribs 04:42, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• As always, feel free to create a hook.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
• What Politzer says "I don't think anyone raised any concerns about notability". What was said by Orlady "his only notability is being" in the very first response. I am concerned with this above user making such claims, and trying to claim that others "bully". This seems to be a trend that has gone on for many weeks now. Ottava Rima (talk) 15:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Ottava, if you're going to make ridiculous accusations, please support them with diffs and make them in the appropriate forum (WT:DYK), not here. You seem to think I'm misrepresenting whether or not people raised concerns about notability; you seem to have missed the explicit parenthetical remark in my comment, "at least, I didn't; I might have missed some other comments up above." As for claiming that you are bullying, I am not the first person to say that, and without diffs there is no "trend that has gone on for many weeks" in my reviewing. As far as I can tell, the only thing I have done wrong was have the gall to put a cleanup tag on one of your precious articles. —Politizer /_contribs 17:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• "if you're going to make ridiculous accusations" I directly quoted where you were wrong. This isn't ridiculous, nor is your response appropriate. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:13, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• I did not intend to suggest that this person is not notable. My only point was that his notability is exclusively connected with the office to which he seeks re-election. That is, he is not also notable as a WiFi expert, athlete, businessman, writer, musician, crime victim, or anything else independent of his mayorship that might "explain" his article being featured on the main page while he seeks re-election. My apologies for making a statement that contributed to unneeded acrimony. --Orlady (talk) 16:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• My read of the article as it presently is written:

  Weisner is an Aurora mayor carpetbagger ("Weisner is a native of Batavia, Illinois, but moved to Aurora thirty years before becoming a political candidate"). As a Peace Corps worker, he gave medical services to natives but only had a bachelor's degree in organizational managment and no other qualitications to give medical services. Within a ten day span, Weisner told people to boil water to address the city's February 2004 water contamination crisis and then resigned from his 1999 appointed government position. (reads like, "Wisner said 'Let them eat cake' in response to a city water crisis then abandoned the city when it needed him"). He ran a 10-year candidacy for Mayor because anything shorter for this guy would have resulted in support going to other candidates. In the end, it was his position as a political, weathly insider that got him elected as Mayor ("Weisner had endorsements from eight of the twelve city council members and a huge funding advantage.") Weisner was up against an African-American in the Mayor race and President Obama initially failed to endorse Weisner. However, Obama did so only during the last moments of the Mayor race and then only after returning to the city to make the endorsement. Once Weisner became Mayor, he attacked Chrstmas, failed to act in the face of an alderman bribery scandal, and allowed a buddy Governor to film and disparage Aurora's casino business. Weisner then failed in his promise to make Aurora the first city in Illinois with a complete wireless Internet infrastructure, and was involved somehow in a Planned Parenthood clinic's questional methods to obtain permits. Weisner plans to run for re-election in February 24, 2009.

  I don't think it would be a good exercise of admin judgment to link such an article from the Main Page. -- Suntag ☼ 16:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Disagreeing with the content is not one of the inclusion principles. Such disagreements have also led to a lot of controversy. If you have a problem with the content, please take it up on the talk page of the article. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:33, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Yes, the article talk page is the right place to address any issues regarding WP:NPOV and WP:BLP in this article. The immediate concern here is not whether the article is appropriately balanced, but whether featuring this article on the main page as a DYK (which typically increases the number of page views by two orders of magnitude) could bring undue negative attention to a living person and/or unduly influence (or be perceived as unduly influencing) the upcoming election. IMO, the article is well-sourced and the concerns that have been expressed with the article as written do not necessitate drastic action, but that does not mean that it would be a good idea to feature the article on the main page. --Orlady (talk) 17:22, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Suntag, I do not think his biography is a at the top of the list for intriguing politicians. However, a lot of half-baked articles make DYK. This article is pretty fully baked. I don't think there is anything at all encyclopedic missing. DYK has put criminal, and many hated individuals onthe main page. Saying this guys story is not so great is not ground for omitting it from the main page.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
• If you think there is a BLP issue, take it to the BLP noticeboard. If you think that it will influence an election, have his opposition's page created. However, not posting the DYK IS taking a side in an election. A negative of something is just as strong as a positive of something. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:13, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• If you feel it belongs on the main page, move it to next. I can not as the nominator, but you can.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:05, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Alim Qasimov

Template:DYKsuggestion at 04:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

OR

• ... that despite being laughed off stage at a music contest as a young boy, mugham singer Alim Qasimov was later declared the best vocalist of his generation?

• 18px Expansion verified, sourcing excellent. Both hooks are sourced and both are acceptable, but I definitely prefer the second—it's a lot more eye-catching, and it's got a story to it. —Politizer /_contribs 00:27, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Not a fan of using such an overtly subjective hook, how about something to do with his first drum? Sherurcij 04:02, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• Actually, at my second glance, I don't see verification for the hook in ref 4, and ref 2 is offline (those are the two refs that are currently sitting by the "best vocalist of his generation" bit). I do think the second hook has an interesting story to it, but I agree with you that it comes off as subjective, especially without being able to verify it in the source. Sillyfolkboy, if you could add the relevant quotation from the source into the footnote, that might help the process along. In the meantime, we can try to think of more hooks as well. Sherurcij, thank you for pointing this out; without your comment I probably wouldn't have caught this! —Politizer /_contribs 04:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• I can see how it's best to avoid such a subjective hook, the quotation is "at the age of 25, he won a major singing competition and was declared the best vocalist of his generation." I can mix the two hooks if you like to remove strong subjectivity:

• ... that despite being laughed off stage at a music contest as a young boy, mugham singer Alim Qasimov was later declared the "People's Artist of Azerbaijan" and won the International IMC-UNESCO Music Prize?

or maybe just simply:

• ... that despite being laughed off stage at a music contest as a young boy, mugham singer Alim Qasimov went on to win the International IMC-UNESCO Music Prize?

or:

• ... that the first instrument mugham singer Alim Qasimov had was a drum made with the stomach lining of a goat?

Are those any better? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 16:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

And does it meet our BLP standard? I know we've shot down similar hooks on those grounds. Daniel Case (talk) 16:17, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I've ruled out the subjective hooks. Are the other alt hooks fine? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 16:26, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I didn't feel there were BLP problems with the laughing-off-the-stage thing, since both the article and hook seem (to me, at least) to be presenting the whole thing in a positive light—ie, it's not "look at this loser, he got laughed off the stage!" but the much more appropriate "look how far he's come, look what he's accomplished, etc." But if anyone still is concerned about BLP, it would probably be safer just to go with the drum hook. —Politizer /_contribs 17:31, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News

... that in 1883, a dozen years before Oscar Wilde was convicted for Gross Indecency, the Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News published a cartoon showing him in convict dress? (started by User:Xn4 with assistance by self) -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

• I don't know what "convict dress" means or what its significance is. That issue needs to be addressed in both the hook and the article itself. —Politizer /_contribs 22:49, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• I changed it to "dressed as a prisoner". OK? -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:57, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• It's a phrase equivalent to prison uniform and I have just created a redirect from convict dress to that effect. - Dravecky (talk) 23:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks. I restored it to the way it was and added the link as you suggest. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• But I still don't see the connection between convict dress and Wilde's "Gross Indecency." I suggest the following alt hook:

• ALT1: ... that in 1883, a dozen years before Oscar Wilde was sentenced to hard labor for Gross Indecency, the Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News published a cartoon showing him dressed as a prisoner? —Politizer /_contribs 23:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't mind your Alt. hook. I think the point that User:Xn4 was making was that the cartoon was prescient in so depicting Wilde, long before any accusation of a crime was brought against Wilde, then at the top of his popularity. I think this was a very obvious connection on its face. I see that you altered the article to take away Xn4's characterization of this connection. No one in 1895 would have looked back through issues of the magazine to make this connection then, but I don't think it's WP:OR to simply note the weird juxtaposition of these two facts, apparent from looking at the date of the cartoon and knowing (in retrospect) the date of Wilde's incarceration. But you're the DYK expert, so I am happy to take your advice on the best hook. Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:44, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I removed "with uncanny foresight" because it's a side comment that doesn't really add any tangible information, and is a little more evaluative than what we usually aim for (at least, judging by my meager experience here at WP). It's not bad writing or anything, it just wasn't WP style...and as far as I can tell, the article doesn't claim anywhere that ISDN was trying to make predictions about Wilde or anything, so referring to them as having "foresight" seems to be giving them a bit more credit than necessary. In any case, I don't think it's a huge deal either way; if you want to add it back, it won't bar the article from DYK or anything (although I imagine that some other editor will remove it again once you reach peer review or GAN or something like that). Anyway, I don't have any problems with the article as it stands now, but we'll have to wait for someone else to review this nom (as I can't verify my own ALT hook). —Politizer /_contribs 05:56, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

"convict dress" — I'm sorry not to have cleared this up before. The point about "convict dress" is that it's the exact term used in the book cited, while "serious slur" papaphrased "a most serious imputation". At p. 322: "As early as 1883 the Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News had cartooned Wilde in convict dress — a most serious imputation..." (See here) I'll add this to the footnote. I haven't seen the cartoon, but almost certainly Wilde would have been shown in a rough suit with figurative arrow-heads stencilled on it. This outfit was once really used in British prisons and is the traditional way for British cartoonists to indicate prison dress. (See here and here.) Xn4 (talk) 01:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Klonoa: Door to Phantomile (Wii)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 09:24, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• Currently tagged for merger with Klonoa: Door to Phantomile, which is not a new article (and wouldn't make five-fold expansion with the merger). We should wait for the outcome of that before promoting this, I feel. Olaf Davis | Talk 18:16, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

• The merger discussion seems to have gone stale (as all mergers I have been involved in have, in my meager experience...Agriculture in China and Agriculture in the People's Republic of China have been tagged for merger for weeks), and I imagine the merger tag is going to stay there for ages. Now's probably the time to either boldly accept it or boldly reject it. (I abstain from making a choice; I'm just the messenger!) —Politizer /_contribs 08:46, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Putting it on the Main Page might well reignite the merger discussion, and look bad when it gets merged while it's up there. Daniel Case (talk) 16:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 4

John Barbato

Template:DYKsuggestion Cbl62 (talk) 16:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

• His age upon release is not mentioned in the article. There is no source stating he was a "capo". There is one that he was a "captain"; is this the same thing? If so, the hook should match the article or vice-versa. The hook reads strangely. It can be interpreted as meaning that he was charged with being a capo in 2008 and then released that same year. Maybe something like "... that "Johnny Sausage" Barbato was released from prison in 2008 after having spent XX months incarcerated on charges of being a capo for the Genovese crime family?" Otto4711 (talk) 20:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Footnotes 3 and 4 include the language charging him with being a "capo" or "captain" in the Genovese family, and the age is confirmed by his birthdate and release date, both dates reflected in the article. I think the release of a capo in America's most notorious crime family at age 74 is part of what makes the hook interesting. How about the following alt hook?Template:DYKsuggestion

• alt ... that "Johnny Sausage" Barbato, charged with being a "capo" or "captain" in the Genovese crime family, was released from prison in July 2008 at age 74? Cbl62 (talk) 06:07, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• His DOB is unreferenced and readers shouldn't have to do the math themselves. Otto4711 (talk) 10:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• There are a couple cites that reference his date of birth, and I've now added an in-line cite for that fact. Accordingly, both his DOB and his date of release from prison now have verifiable in-line cites.Cbl62 (talk) 18:18, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• The hook seems to be negative and somewhat personal information about a living individual....yeah, sure, he's a criminal who has pleaded guilty, but still, I'm not sure how BLP and our rules jive with that. —Politizer /_contribs 22:43, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

When it comes to persons who are known principally for their connection to organized crime or terrorism, I don't believe BLP applies -- so long as there's very solid support for the fact. For example, one of the Top 5 DYK hooks of all times featured a "Most Wanted" reference (DYK ... that in April 2008, Forbes listed Omid Tahvili as one of the world's ten most wanted fugitives?). In that case, Tahvili was wanted. In this case, Johnny Sausage has been convicted on multiple occasions for his involvement in organized crime. I don't think BLP applies to such a case, even less than it would to Tahvili.Cbl62 (talk) 23:47, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

That's true. I guess I was concerned less about him and more about his fam, but I dunno. I'm not very familiar with the BLP guidelines anyway. —Politizer /_contribs 01:07, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Over and above the possible BLP issues, I don't find this hook terribly interesting or unusual. Lots of members of organized-crime groups, and indeed many unorganized criminals, have been released from prison very late in their lives. Daniel Case (talk) 05:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Not really analogous to compare "Johnny Sausage" to your average criminal being released from prison. He's one of the top "capo's" in the most notorious organized crime family in America. I thought it was interesting and unusual for a leading crime boss to be released in his old age, and his unusual moniker alone caught my eye, but we all have different tastes, I guess. Cbl62 (talk) 07:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

That's true; I would click on this hook just for the name. Mainly I was worried about the fact that, if Barbato still has family around, they might not be happy to see this reminder of his crime made so public...but at a second glance, I'm noticing that he was released back in July, so it might be less sensitive now, and regardless I don't know if BLP has clear guidelines about family stuff anyway. So I'm not going to stand in the way of this hook, given that I'm not familiar with BLP anyway. —Politizer /_contribs 16:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, then can the hook (and article) explain the origins of this nickname? Usually that's known. Or can it explain this "excluded from New Jersey" thing? I got a "no response from server" when I clicked on the source, but I'd like to know if this means that he can never enter New Jersey again. That sort of thing is different because the U.S. justice system rarely does internal exile-type things (and it means that the popular joke slogan "Welcome to New Jersey — Now, Go Home" isn't a joke for him). Daniel Case (talk) 16:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I have not found any sources discussing the origins of the "Sausage" moniker. One could make assumptions, but probably not a good idea. As for the exlusion order, it is still posted on the State of New Jersey's web site, so it appears to still be in effect. See link. Do you think a hook like this would be preferable.Cbl62 (talk) 23:50, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

• 'alt 2 ... that John Barbato, also known as "Johnny Sausage", has been excluded from the State of New Jersey? Cbl62 (talk) 23:50, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I think the first alt hook is better because alt 2 focuses even more on the negative, whereas alt 1 focuses on his having been released. I don't have a preference. If folks think either hook works, great. If not, "Johnny Sausage" will not get the publicity at DYK. 23:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Mercury Monterey

Template:DYKsuggestion at 02:08, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Added a picture. --74.13.129.191 (talk) 03:43, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

- This is the only thing cited in the entire article. —Ceran 03:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Poor referencing. —Politizer /_contribs 17:32, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. --Sable232 (talk) 19:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Refs are there now, but I have tagged the article with {{single source}}—all the refs seem to be from different issues of the same publication. It's not enough to actually disqualify the hook, but it is enough to give most reviewers pause before promoting it, so I think it would still help to introduce more sources. —Politizer /_contribs 08:42, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 2

Bovista dermoxantha

Template:DYKsuggestion

• There is only a reference at the end of the paragraph, not near the hook fact. Also, could you format the footnotes with relevant author/title/date/publisher/accessdate information? (Right now several of them are bare URLs.) —Politizer /_contribs 15:46, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm...the problem is that the link refers to the entire section as a referenece...I'll try converting the footnotes for the URLs, though; I even did the literary sources. Cheers. Imperat§ r 14:01, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

For the reference, included original research centers and dates. Anything more?

As for the footnote that is meant to cover the entire paragraph...I figured that's how it was, but unfortunately using a single citation to cover a large amount of information is undesirable, especially when that source is not freely available online (as is the case with this) and is highly technical, making it unlikely that most readers will be able to go through and find the relevant information themselves. While some users think it's ugly to do this, my policy is to have a footnote for every bit of factual information, even if it means repeating the same footnote 10 times in a row.

In this case, though, since you're directly reporting the results of a single study and your writing follows a logical path, it would probably be acceptable to include just two footnotes to the source: one at the first mention of the study (so probably the first sentence), and one again at the end of the paragraph. —Politizer /_contribs 21:38, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

As for cleaning up the references...including the dates, publisher, and authors is a good start, although it should be done for all the references (as opposed to just the hook reference). Also, it's nice to hide the URL by putting it on the journal title...ie, "Example" is better than "http://www.example.org Example". —Politizer /_contribs 21:40, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Done. Anything else? Cheers. Sincerely, Imperat§ r 22:36, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I've done some cleanup editing in the article and I accessed and reviewed the cited source. I believe that the contributor has not accurately interpreted the study that is cited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orlady (talk • contribs)

I haven't looked at the source yet, but I find the hook rather confusingly worded. What exactly is being meant there? Nsk92 (talk) 02:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

The hook, as proposed, appears to indicate that this fungus was evaluated for use in controlling some type of pest. Actually, the fungus itself is considered to be a pest. The "Observations" section of the article is a rehash of a single article in a scientific journal that discusses the effect of temperature on the growth of three species of fungus, including this one. --Orlady (talk) 03:24, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Per the article, the same temperature-dependent tests used to predict when pest insects would be born was applied to Bovista dermoxantha. Basically, the results of the test were something like the hotter it gets, the more of these mushrooms you gonna see. That's not exactly what the results were but the research seem to look at the temperatures Bovista dermoxantha grows best. The article contains a lot of big city, tall tower words and concepts and might benefit from some revision. -- Suntag ☼ 19:36, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

DYKs for December holidays other than December 25, 2008 holidays

Note: As we did at Halloween, we are "breaking the rules" (including the unwritten ones) in that these articles were prepared in under 5 days but are being delayed. Post your DYK suggestions here on topics related to holidays of this season that are not listed at December 25 Holidays.

Suggestions:

DYKs relevant to December 25, 2008 holidays

Note: As we did at Halloween, we are "breaking the rules" (including the unwritten ones) in that these articles were prepared in under 5 days but are being delayed. Post your DYK suggestions here on topics listed at December 25 Holidays, such as Christmas, Quaid-e-Azam's Day, The feast day of Anastasia of Sirmium, and Yule.

Suggestions:

Tirggel

Template:DYKsuggestion at 10:02, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Fantastic article! I remember having these cookies for Christmas. Length, date, and hook verified. -- Suntag ☼ 13:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Christmas on the River

Template:DYKsuggestion at 00:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified. "Floats on boats" would also be an acceptable wording. —Politizer /_contribs 04:17, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

'Twas the Night Before Christmas (1977 TV special)

• ... that Paul Lynde was responsible for Martha Raye being cast as his mother-in-law in the 1977 TV special 'Twas the Night Before Christmas? (New article, self-nom with offline hook reference) Ecoleetage (talk) 22:25, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Nice Christmas article! Offline reference accepted in good faith. – RyanCross (talk) 00:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Any reason why the article isn't titled with a single quote-mark in front of it? It appears to be the special's official title, and there don't seem to be any technical restrictions relating to quotes, so I'm moving it over here. JamieS93 19:42, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks, JamieS93 19:44, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Promoted entries

Queue 1

The hooks below have been approved by a human (Launchballer) and will be automatically added to the DYK template at the appropriate time.

• ... that the Sam Kee Building (pictured), recognized by Guinness World Records as the "narrowest commercial building in the world", was built on a bet between two businessmen?
• ... that a group of 25 women disfigured by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima traveled to the United States in the 1950s to receive reconstructive surgery?
• ... that Mary Sheffield is the youngest elected member and the youngest president in the Detroit City Council's history?
• ... that fans speculated that Charli XCX wrote "Sympathy Is a Knife" about Taylor Swift and her relationship with Matty Healy?
• ... that the capture of the crusader Bertrand of Toulouse by Muslims was blamed by an anonymous monk on the "treachery" of Queen Melisende and Countess Hodierna?
• ... that the Chinook Indian Nation became a federally recognized tribe in 2001, but had its status revoked the following year?
• ... that Liang Sishun published an anthology of Chinese poetry in 1908, when she was sixteen years old?
• ... that Eoscorpius, despite living hundreds of millions of years ago, has been noted for its similarity to modern scorpions?
• ... that a Greek academic compared the Frankish Tower in Athens with "the droppings of birds of prey"?

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Queue 2

The hooks below have been approved by a human (SL93 (talk)) and will be automatically added to the DYK template at the appropriate time.

• ... that Oliver Hutchinson (pictured) was the subject of the first successful live demonstration of the television on 26 January 1926?
• ... that three women spent 80 hours chained together in a mine to protest its closure?
• ... that Joseph Hirkala initially declined to run for reelection to the New Jersey Senate in 1987 due to poor health, but entered the race 38 days before his death?
• ... that a long-legged lovebird lived in humanity's cradle?
• ... that Bao Tianxiao received an award for best original work for his translation of an Italian novel?
• ... that the lyrics of So Medieval are "like an audiobook during a car crash"?
• ... that Tan Gee Paw was presented with a solid gold medal by Lee Kuan Yew for helping to clean up Singapore's waterways?
• ... that a "mystery eruption" in 1453 cooled the Northern Hemisphere?
• ... that Lily Phillips had sex with 101 men on 19 October 2024?

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Queue 3

The hooks below have been approved by a human (RoySmith (talk)) and will be automatically added to the DYK template at the appropriate time.

• ... that Brachyrhaphis roseni (examples pictured) and B. rhabdophora are difficult to breed because they voraciously eat their own young?
• ... that Mirza Muhammad Amin Shahristani served in the royal courts of the Golconda Sultanate, Safavid Iran, and the Mughal Empire?
• ... that one writer criticized the College Football Playoff system before its first edition had even begun?
• ... that the Nicaraguan nun Dorotea Wilson joined a guerrilla group, renounced her vows, and became a women's rights activist and politician?
• ... that a U.S. government official ordered that "It Was on a Friday Morning" be removed from a hymnal within 24 hours?
• ... that after the failure of the Tiepolo conspiracy of 1310, the houses of the chief conspirators were torn down, and their families were forced to change their coats of arms?
• ... that Coscinodon lawianus is one of only two species of moss only found in continental Antarctica?
• ... that LGBTQ activist Alexey Davydov became the first person to be charged with violating Russia's 2013 anti-gay law after he displayed a sign that read "being gay is normal" at a children's library?
• ... that stars have been depicted in fiction since the 1600s as locations that can be visited?

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Queue 4

REMOVE THIS MESSAGE WHEN ADDING HOOKS TO THE QUEUE This queue is currently empty. When hooks are added, they must be approved by adding {{DYKbotdo|~~~}} to the top of the page; the bot will not make any updates unless this is added. Remove this message when adding the hooks.

Queue 5

The hooks below have been approved by a human (– 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs)) and will be automatically added to the DYK template at the appropriate time.

• ... that the Jethani Temple (ruins pictured) may have collapsed under its own weight?
• ... that the T24 Festival was organized after a former soldier boasted online that he could set up a 24-person military tent by himself?
• ... that the organ console at the Loew's Jersey Theatre was originally installed at another theater by mistake?
• ... that Margaret Reid is the first woman to have served as President of the Australian Senate?
• ... that The Hangover by Toulouse-Lautrec, which features the stylistic influence of Vincent van Gogh, was once displayed by Aristide Bruant in his nightclub?
• ... that there were "jubilant" cheers from the courtroom audience when three students were acquitted of the murder of Fernando Rios?
• ... that the discontinuation of a Warsaw-based Yiddish literary journal in the summer of 1939 was unrelated to the invasion of Poland?
• ... that Olympic gold medalist Lao Lishi was one of eight bell-ringers for the Alibaba Group's listing on the New York Stock Exchange?
• ... that according to the Mercurius Aulicus, 400 soldiers were routed by six officers and a boy during the English Civil War?

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Next update queue

5

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See also

• User:AlexNewArtBot/GoodSearchResult – This is an automated list of promising new articles generated by AlexNewArtBot (talk · contribs · logs).

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