| Revision as of 14:49, 24 December 2009 editAction grrl (talk | contribs)331 edits →Denizen (2010 film): Added 10th reference for article from Pretty Scary: For Women in Horror by Women in Horror← Previous edit | Revision as of 03:11, 27 December 2009 edit undoVanished user 24kwjf10h32h (talk | contribs)25,250 edits →Denizen (2010 film): commentNext edit → | ||
| Line 6: | Line 6: | ||
| Unremarkable film. Fails ] and ]. A "making-of" short appears to have won an award, not this film. Note that the DoorQ reference is actually a blog. ] (]) 03:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC) | Unremarkable film. Fails ] and ]. A "making-of" short appears to have won an award, not this film. Note that the DoorQ reference is actually a blog. ] (]) 03:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC) | ||
| : It's 2010 now? '''DELETE'''. --] <small>] ]</small> 04:21, 23 December 2009 (UTC) | : It's 2010 now? '''DELETE'''. --] <small>] ]</small> 04:21, 23 December 2009 (UTC) | ||
| <s> | |||
| : Thanks for the opportunity to discuss. I disagree with the proposal for deletion. | : Thanks for the opportunity to discuss. I disagree with the proposal for deletion. | ||
| Line 46: | Line 46: | ||
| : Thanks so much. | : Thanks so much. | ||
| : ] (]) 05:17, 23 December 2009 (UTC) | : ] (]) 05:17, 23 December 2009 (UTC)</s> | ||
| *'''Delete''': not notable as such: minor low-budget as-yet unreleased action movie. --] (]) 08:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC) | *'''Delete''': not notable as such: minor low-budget as-yet unreleased action movie. --] (]) 08:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC) | ||
| Line 54: | Line 54: | ||
| ::'''Comment''' I really appreciate all of the interest shown, and the assistance provided for improvement, both to me and the article. I have learned so much in this process. I hope that those who advocate for deletion will reflect on the references in the article about the production, and consider what this woman has overcome to bring this independent action film to completion on a micro-budget, such as {{cite web |title=Interview with J.A. Steel|work=Killing Boxx |date=]|url=http://www.killingboxx.com/interviews/JA_Steel.html}} And then perhaps contemplate the industry review of the pre-release version at {{cite web |title=B Movie Man Review of Denizen (2010)|work=B Movie Man |date=]|url=http://bmovieman.com/Denizen.aspx}} The review is by a recognized expert in the genre, who watched the film and describes the unique stunt work, far-flung locations and complex plot, notable for independent film projects. The award mentioned above from the Park City Music Festival was for the music video/trailer for the movie Denizen itself, not the short film on the behind-the-scenes, which also won an award. My speculation is that there will be future awards for the film, and additional critical acclaim, though time will tell, just as it will for the other to-be released ]s. Thanks for all of your help. --] (]) 14:01, 23 December 2009 (UTC) | ::'''Comment''' I really appreciate all of the interest shown, and the assistance provided for improvement, both to me and the article. I have learned so much in this process. I hope that those who advocate for deletion will reflect on the references in the article about the production, and consider what this woman has overcome to bring this independent action film to completion on a micro-budget, such as {{cite web |title=Interview with J.A. Steel|work=Killing Boxx |date=]|url=http://www.killingboxx.com/interviews/JA_Steel.html}} And then perhaps contemplate the industry review of the pre-release version at {{cite web |title=B Movie Man Review of Denizen (2010)|work=B Movie Man |date=]|url=http://bmovieman.com/Denizen.aspx}} The review is by a recognized expert in the genre, who watched the film and describes the unique stunt work, far-flung locations and complex plot, notable for independent film projects. The award mentioned above from the Park City Music Festival was for the music video/trailer for the movie Denizen itself, not the short film on the behind-the-scenes, which also won an award. My speculation is that there will be future awards for the film, and additional critical acclaim, though time will tell, just as it will for the other to-be released ]s. Thanks for all of your help. --] (]) 14:01, 23 December 2009 (UTC) | ||
| ::'''Comment''' Added 10th reference for article, from ''Pretty Scary: For Women in Horror by Women in Horror''. ] (]) 14:49, 24 December 2009 (UTC) | ::'''Comment''' Added 10th reference for article, from ''Pretty Scary: For Women in Horror by Women in Horror''. ] (]) 14:49, 24 December 2009 (UTC) | ||
| ::'''Comment'' The references you added to the article are NOT RELIABLE, no one can check if they are telling the truth. ] --] <small>] ]</small> 03:11, 27 December 2009 (UTC) | |||
| *<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''': This debate has been included in the ]. <!--Template:Delsort--></small> <small>-- ] (]) 14:51, 23 December 2009 (UTC)</small> | *<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''': This debate has been included in the ]. <!--Template:Delsort--></small> <small>-- ] (]) 14:51, 23 December 2009 (UTC)</small> | ||
Revision as of 03:11, 27 December 2009
Denizen (2010 film)
- Denizen (2010 film) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Unremarkable film. Fails WP:GNG and WP:MOVIE. A "making-of" short appears to have won an award, not this film. Note that the DoorQ reference is actually a blog. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 03:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- It's 2010 now? DELETE. --MisterWiki talk contribs 04:21, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for the opportunity to discuss. I disagree with the proposal for deletion.
- I appreciate your guidance on adding more references from resources.
- When seeking out references to establish the notability of a film, and to provide the necessary information for a thorough article of high quality, consider some of these resources:
- A film's entry in the The Internet Movie Database can provide valuable information, including links to reviews, articles, and media references. A page in the database does not by itself establish the film's notability, however. Film and entertainment periodicals abound. Many magazines in Category:Film magazines can provide good references and indicators of notability.
- I did some more research this evening and have added references from local newspaper, film and entertainment periodicals.
- It is a yet undistributed film, but is notable.
- Some films that don't pass the standard notability may still be notable, and should be evaluated on their own merits. The article's ability to attest to a film's notability through verifiable sources is significant. The sources for Denizen are verifiable.
- The Denizen article features significant involvement (ie. one of the most important roles in the making of the film) by a notable person, JA Steel, and is a major part of her career.
- J.A. Steel, one of the few female directors in the industry. She is a director, producer, actor, editor, fight choreographer and stunt person, in addition to writer and composer.
- The article on the Denizen film was created as there enough information on the film that it would clutter up the biography page of J.A. Steel if it was mentioned there.
- The short film was about the filmmaker and the making of the film Denizen, and the struggles she has had while working a hostile industry, 92% dominated by men.
- If you have access to IMDB Pro, you will see Denizen (http://www.pro.imdb.com/title/tt1194424/), is in the Top 35 completed features awaiting release (http://www.pro.imdb.com/inproduction/status-completed). This is a major accomplishment by a female director.
- A lot of this discussion is about Steel's achievements as a female film director. That is arguably evidence for her notability, but doesn't make the film notable per se. --Slashme (talk) 08:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- Here are some additional references for Denizen that I found this evening that are not included in the Misplaced Pages article:
- http://www.parkcityfilmmusicfestival.org/screenings.html
- This seems to be a minor award (silver medal in a minor music festival competition) for the impact of music in a short film: is this not also about the documentary? --Slashme (talk) 08:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- http://cinemafantastique.be/Denizen.html
- This basically describes Steel as a producer of low-budget movies with low distribution numbers and anticipates Denizen to be another in the same vein, for example saying that the monster is more likely to make you laugh than scream.
- http://www.cinemafantastique.net/Interview-de-Tiffany-Shepis-scream.html
- This is an interview where one of the actors basically just says that she can't say much about the film. Not much support for notability. --Slashme (talk) 08:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8xyn0_ja-steel-denizen-sundance-2009_shortfilms
- http://www.oklahomafilm.org/uploads/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20FINALAdvisory%20Board%20Report%20-%20April%202008.pdf
- This just mentions the film in passing. --Slashme (talk) 08:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- Rather than proposing deletion, I would appreciate your help in improving the article as others have done. There are a few hundred articles on upcoming films, many in 2009 and 2010, that might also benefit from your assistance.
- Thanks so much.
Action grrl (talk) 05:17, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- Delete: not notable as such: minor low-budget as-yet unreleased action movie. --Slashme (talk) 08:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- Keep and assist-Action grrl's request to improve the article is both reasonable and kind, traits rarely seen when articles are put up for AfD. I would say this show of good faith buys her some good faith in return, what say you, Wikipedians? Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 08:48, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- Comment Hi Chris, I agree that we are seeing ample evidence of good faith, and we should be careful not to be impolite, but the test for notability is independent of who's asserting it, and I just don't see the evidence here! --Slashme (talk) 10:21, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- Comment I really appreciate all of the interest shown, and the assistance provided for improvement, both to me and the article. I have learned so much in this process. I hope that those who advocate for deletion will reflect on the references in the article about the production, and consider what this woman has overcome to bring this independent action film to completion on a micro-budget, such as "Interview with J.A. Steel". Killing Boxx. 2008-12-01.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) And then perhaps contemplate the industry review of the pre-release version at "B Movie Man Review of Denizen (2010)". B Movie Man. 2009-11-25.{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) The review is by a recognized expert in the genre, who watched the film and describes the unique stunt work, far-flung locations and complex plot, notable for independent film projects. The award mentioned above from the Park City Music Festival was for the music video/trailer for the movie Denizen itself, not the short film on the behind-the-scenes, which also won an award. My speculation is that there will be future awards for the film, and additional critical acclaim, though time will tell, just as it will for the other to-be released upcoming films. Thanks for all of your help. --Action grrl (talk) 14:01, 23 December 2009 (UTC) - Comment Added 10th reference for article, from Pretty Scary: For Women in Horror by Women in Horror. Action grrl (talk) 14:49, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- 'Comment The references you added to the article are NOT RELIABLE, no one can check if they are telling the truth. WP:RELIABLE --MisterWiki talk contribs 03:11, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:51, 23 December 2009 (UTC)