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faq page Frequently asked questions To view the response to a question, click the link to the right of the question. Family and religious background Q1: Why isn't Barack Obama's Muslim heritage or education included in this article? A1: Barack Obama was never a practitioner of Islam. His biological father having been "raised as a Muslim" but being a "confirmed atheist" by the time Obama was born is mentioned in the article. Please see this article on Snopes.com for a fairly in-depth debunking of the myth that Obama is Muslim. Barack Obama did not attend an Islamic or Muslim school while living in Indonesia age 6–10, but Roman Catholic and secular public schools. See , , The sub-articles Public image of Barack Obama and Barack Obama religion conspiracy theories address this issue. Q2: The article refers to him as African American, but his mother is white and his black father was not an American. Should he be called African American, or something else ("biracial", "mixed", "Kenyan-American", "mulatto", "quadroon", etc.)? A2: Obama himself and the media identify him, the vast majority of the time, as African American or black. African American is primarily defined as "citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa", a statement that accurately describes Obama and does not preclude or negate origins in the white populations of America as well. Thus we use the term African American in the introduction, and address the specifics of his parentage in the first headed section of the article. Many individuals who identify as black have varieties of ancestors from many countries who may identify with other racial or ethnic groups. See our article on race for more information on this concept. We could call him the first "biracial" candidate or the first "half black half white" candidate or the first candidate with a parent born in Africa, but Misplaced Pages is a tertiary source which reports what other reliable sources say, and most of those other sources say "first African American". Readers will learn more detail about his ethnic background in the article body. Q3: Why can't we use his full name outside of the lead? It's his name, isn't it? A3: The relevant part of the Manual of Style says that outside the lead of an article on a person, that person's conventional name is the only one that's appropriate. (Thus one use of "Richard Milhous Nixon" in the lead of Richard Nixon, "Richard Nixon" thereafter.) Talk page consensus has also established this. Q4: Why is Obama referred to as "Barack Hussein Obama II" in the lead sentence rather than "Barack Hussein Obama, Jr."? Isn't "Jr." more common? A4: Although "Jr." is typically used when a child shares the name of his or her parent, "II" is considered acceptable, as well. And in Obama's case, the usage on his birth certificate is indeed "II", and is thus the form used at the beginning of this article, per manual of style guidelines on names. Q5: Why don't we cover the claims that Obama is not a United States citizen, his birth certificate was forged, he was not born in Hawaii, he is ineligible to be President, etc? A5: The Barack Obama article consists of an overview of major issues in the life and times of the subject. The controversy over his eligibility, citizenship, birth certificate etc is currently a fairly minor issue in overall terms, and has had no significant legal or mainstream political impact. It is therefore not currently appropriate for inclusion in an overview article. These claims are covered separately in Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories. Controversies, praise, and criticism Q6: Why isn't there a criticisms/controversies section? A6: Because a section dedicated to criticisms and controversies is no more appropriate than a section dedicated solely to praise and is an indication of a poorly written article. Criticisms/controversies/praises should be worked into the existing prose of the article, per the Criticism essay. Q7: Why isn't a certain controversy/criticism/praise included in this article? A7: Misplaced Pages's Biography of living persons policy says that "riticism and praise of the subject should be represented if it is relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to take sides; it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone." Criticism or praise that cannot be reliably sourced cannot be placed in a biography. Also, including everything about Obama in a single article would exceed Misplaced Pages's article size restrictions. A number of sub-articles have been created and some controversies/criticisms/praises have been summarized here or been left out of this article altogether, but are covered in some detail in the sub-articles. Q8: But this controversy/criticism/praise is all over the news right now! It should be covered in detail in the main article, not buried in a sub-article! A8: Misplaced Pages articles should avoid giving undue weight to something just because it is in the news right now. If you feel that the criticism/controversy/praise is not being given enough weight in this article, you can try to start a discussion on the talk page about giving it more. See WP:BRD. Q9: This article needs much more (or much less) criticism/controversy. A9: Please try to assume good faith. Like all articles on Misplaced Pages, this article is a work in progress so it is possible for biases to exist at any point in time. If you see a bias that you wish to address, you are more than welcome to start a new discussion, or join in an existing discussion, but please be ready to provide sources to support your viewpoint and try to keep your comments civil. Starting off your discussion by accusing the editors of this article of having a bias is the quickest way to get your comment ignored. Talk and article mechanics Q10: This article is over 275kb long, and the article size guideline says that it should be broken up into sub-articles. Why hasn't this happened? A10: The restriction mentioned in WP:SIZE is 60kB of readable prose, not the byte count you see when you open the page for editing. As of May 11, 2016, this article had about 10,570 words of readable prose (65 kB according to prosesize tool), only slightly above the guideline. The rest is mainly citations and invisible comments, which do not count towards the limit. Q11: I notice this FAQ mentions starting discussions or joining in on existing discussions a lot. If Misplaced Pages is supposed to be the encyclopedia anyone can edit, shouldn't I just be bold and fix any biases that I see in the article? A11: It is true that Misplaced Pages is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit and no one needs the permission of other editors of this article to make changes to it. But Misplaced Pages policy is that, "While the consensus process does not require posting to the discussion page, it can be useful and is encouraged." This article attracts editors that have very strong opinions about Obama (positive and negative) and these editors have different opinions about what should and should not be in the article, including differences as to appropriate level of detail. As a result of this it may be helpful, as a way to avoid content disputes, to seek consensus before adding contentious material to or removing it from the article. Q12: The article/talk page has been vandalized! Why hasn't anyone fixed this? A12: Many editors watch this article, and it is unlikely that vandalism would remain unnoticed for long. It is possible that you are viewing a cached result of the article; If so, try bypassing your cache. Disruption Q13: Why are so many discussions closed so quickly? A13: Swift closure is common for topics that have already been discussed repeatedly, topics pushing fringe theories, and topics that would lead to violations of Misplaced Pages's policy concerning biographies of living persons, because of their disruptive nature and the unlikelihood that consensus to include the material will arise from the new discussion. In those cases, editors are encouraged to read this FAQ for examples of such common topics. Q14: I added new content to the article, but it was removed! A14: Double-check that your content addition is not sourced to an opinion blog, editorial, or non-mainstream news source. Misplaced Pages's policy on biographies of living persons states, in part, "Material about living persons must be sourced very carefully. Without reliable third-party sources, it may include original research and unverifiable statements, and could lead to libel claims." Sources of information must be of a very high quality for biographies. While this does not result in an outright ban of all blogs and opinion pieces, most of them are regarded as questionable. Inflammatory or potentially libelous content cited to a questionable source will be removed immediately without discussion. Q15: I disagree with the policies and content guidelines that prevent my proposed content from being added to the article. A15: That's understandable. Misplaced Pages is a work in progress. If you do not approve of a policy cited in the removal of content, it's possible to change it. Making cogent, logical arguments on the policy's talk page is likely to result in a positive alteration. This is highly encouraged. However, this talk page is not the appropriate place to dispute the wording used in policies and guidelines. If you disagree with the interpretation of a policy or guideline, there is also recourse: Dispute resolution. Using the dispute resolution process prevents edit wars, and is encouraged. Q16: I saw someone start a discussion on a topic raised by a blog/opinion piece, and it was reverted! A16: Unfortunately, due to its high profile, this talk page sees a lot of attempts to argue for policy- and guideline-violating content – sometimes the same violations many times a day. These are regarded as disruptive, as outlined above. Consensus can change; material previously determined to be unacceptable may become acceptable. But it becomes disruptive and exhausting when single-purpose accounts raise the same subject(s) repeatedly in the apparent hopes of overcoming significant objections by other editors. Editors have reached a consensus for dealing with this behavior: Efforts by established single-purpose accounts to introduce such poorly-sourced content will be summarily deleted. On the second such attempt, the source in question will be immediately reported to the reliable sources noticeboard for administrative assistance. New editors who wish to engage in discussions on previously rejected content are encouraged to ensure that their sources do not violate any of Misplaced Pages's policies and sourcing guidelines. Other Q17: Why aren't the 2008 and 2012 presidential campaigns covered in more detail? A17: They are, in sub-articles called Barack Obama 2008 presidential campaign and Barack Obama 2012 presidential campaign. Things that are notable in the context of the presidential campaigns, but are of minimal notability to Barack Obama's overall biography, belong in the sub-articles. Campaign stops, the presidential debates, and the back-and-forth accusations and claims of the campaigns can all be found there.

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Special discussion pages Article probation, Incidents Historical diffs, Weight, Race

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Business International Corporation known to be a CIA front

Should it be mentioned briefly that this company which Obama worked for as a 22-year old is also a known CIA front organization? __meco (talk) 13:51, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Nothing is considered unless sources are provided. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

The article about the company appears to have this referenced. __meco (talk) 13:56, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

This seems like an issue of extraordinary low importance. -- Scjessey (talk) 14:09, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

You mean, like the would-be fact that as a child he preferred to eat pears instead of apples? I don't see the logic in dismissing an unacknowledged possible connection between the incumbent US President and the CIA with that kind of reasoning. __meco (talk) 14:20, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Where's the source making that connection? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 14:33, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

If you look at the article, you'll see the citations, from 1977 and 1987. I would expect that if a company had it's cover blown as a CIA front six years before he arrived, that any connection between the company and the CIA would either have been severed or been useless to CIA. --Habap (talk) 14:50, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps. What is curious though is that both his father and mother also worked at CIA front companies. __meco (talk) 15:32, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

With all respect, the fact that you find this curious is irrelevant to the writing of this article. This is OR/synth, incredibly low weight for the man's bio, and kind of Alias-ish to suggest that working for a CIA front company has a genetic component. Tvoz/talk 15:45, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Cool down, I was only making a comment. __meco (talk) 16:02, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

And I was only asking that we not digress into speculation - it's a bad week on this talk page for that. No offense intended. Tvoz/talk 17:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Economic policy

The article is very slanted and is not much different from advertising for him. Misplaced Pages should be neutral. The most common thing is to cherry pick, particularly on a claim of being "bipartisan" and use this in this article. The current authors should be fired for such a bad article.

One example (of many) is the slanted claim of helping the economy. The economy is shit. To blame him is partisan but having him take credit is partisan, too.

Try inserting that Obama claimed unemployment would be 9% if his plan was not passed. So they passed it and unemployment got worse. There are many sources for that.

Again, don't smear the guy but stop having a fluffy ad for him.

Absent a source, I cannot consider your proposal. However, I suspect that there are few if any reliable sources that would purport to say what the American unemployment numbers would have been had a different policy been taken. It would merely be a source that says a certain study, or expert, made that assertion. For every article that says that there are others, probably more, that say that the economic stimulus and other economic initiatives prevented the economy from getting worse that it did, and yet others that describe unemployment as a measurement that lags economic recovery. To report on all of these would give undue weight to differences of opinion among economists, although there may indeed be articles where this information is more appropriate, e.g. articles on the recent recession, or on the economic policies themselves. - Wikidemon (talk) 17:54, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

major problems

I find it very troubling that this article is being controlled by one faction of political supporters, rather than being neutral. Wikidemon already admits that "I cannot consider your proposal".

I disagree with both the original post and Wikidemon, so much so, that I must write a dissenting opinion.

The economic policy section does not belong in this article the way it is written. For several reasons. One, this is a biography, not a history of the nation during his presidency. Two, this is biased. It says that he helped the economy. The neutral way would not to make that assessment. See http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/10/unemployment-labor-market-jobs-opinions-columnists-thomas-f-cooley-peter-rupert.html This is opinion but it is also opinion when some people say the stimulus helped.

Let's be fair and neutral in this article. S9binator (talk) 15:15, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

It is troubling that you should make unfounded accusations against fellow Wikipedians, ignoring the policy of assuming good faith. Most economists agree that the Recovery and Reinvestment Act was chiefly responsible for preventing the economy from sinking into a catastrophic Depression, and a myriad reliable sources can be found to reference that. Economists are in general agreement that the small size of the stimulus package means it has not had the impact hoped for. Nobody capable of adding 2+2 thinks the package was a bad idea. The Recovery and Reinvestment Act was a pivotal piece of legislation for President Obama that most certainly has biographical relevance as part of the section on his presidency. Incidentally, "fair and neutral" sounds awfully familiar. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:33, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

To further Scjessey's commont, it's rather silly to misrepresent another person's statement immediately below where it was made. As I said, I can't consider a proposal for how to characterize this in the article without a proposed source. That's not an admission of anything, that's just waiting for an explanation of how this would satisfy WP:V and some other policies. If someone wanted to add a statement like "Obama has a vacation home in Ohio" that's also what I would say, do you have a source for that? It's up to the person proposing to add content to justify that it's reliably sourced, and in this case I don't know of any reliable sources and I'm dubious that they exist in meaningful number. - Wikidemon (talk) 15:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree with reliable sourcing. We can discuss here how we feel about the economy or how we believe most economists feel about the Recovery Act but it comes down to sourcing. Aside, it is unfounded to say here that those who view the Recovery Act as a bad idea can't do basic math. Jamming close to $900 billion into the economy (and elsewhere) will certainly and has given it a jolt but it still may or may not be sustained. So in the end, it may as well have been a bad idea if the economy gets worse and all the U.S. gets out of it is more debt. It might be hard to find good reliable sources to be the judge on that one right now. As far as the Recovery Act unemployment projection figures, the Act was obviously way too optimistic on employment. I am not surprised though (and I don't think commentators are too) to see that a piece of government legislation didn't meet its claim. With that, in my opinion, right now I don't see much significance for it here now in his bio and am neutral placing it elsewhere. If you can provide a source on economic analysis or figures that isn't included, updates or contradicts, do so.--NortyNort (Holla) 17:15, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Just to complete my thought and respond to your comment -- There is nothing wrong with government legislation as long it is executed properly. The problem with the Recovery and Reinvestment act was that it was only about 50% the size it should've been. This was in part due to the fact that the government underestimated the strength and depth of the economic woes, but it was also due to the partisan bickering in Congress that made sure it was a less effective bill. Award-winning economists (like Paul Krugman) said that the stimulus package needed to be well over a trillion dollars in order to do any good, but Democrats knew they'd never get any Republican votes for something of that size. Republicans, incredibly, simply wanted a package of tax cuts. And by continuously portraying the stimulus in a bad light they actually helped to reduce its effectiveness, since the economy depends so much on consumer confidence. -- Scjessey (talk) 00:26, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

I have to agree with Subinator as far as the economic policy being in this article. This is an article about the man, not about American history 2009-present. The choice of topics is also biased. The economy is in terrible shape, far worse shape than under Bush. This is not to say the McCain would have done any better, but cherry picking positive things is very biased. Unemployment is far higher than Obama said it would be if his stimulus were NOT passed! (There's a reason for that; Obama is seen as highly anti-business so small business is being very cautious and not hiring but that shouldn't be in the article either because it is about economics, not Obama the man). France is the greatest (talk) 23:01, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

photo

"Obamacare" legislative process section?

Inasmuch as Obamacare essentially involves federal supervision of 1/6th of the economy, it would seem essential for any ideologically neutral article to delve into the extremely controversial process of vote-buying, votes at midnight, votes in a blizzard, votes on Christmas Eve, etc. by which Obamacare was pushed through. Ignoring this is really tantamount to covering up salient facts about an extremely important new role for the federal governmental in the economy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.149.170 (talk) 15:48, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Because it's not relevant to the biography; compare George W. Bush and its treatment of Medicare Part D, the tax cuts, or even Harriet Miers, where they're just mentioned, without listing the loopholes in legislative procedure used. Same should apply here. Sceptre 18:34, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

You can find discussion of it in Obamacare and Health care reform debate in the United States. If it were to discussed here, it could only be about his role. Since Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and a cast of millions are involved, it's covered in articles about just the topic in question, not in each biography. --Habap (talk) 18:41, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Article length FAQ

The #10 question in the FAQ talks about the article as it was on 22 June 2008. By now it is considerably outdated and the article is bigger than it was then. Would someone do a new check of the article and update the FAQ accordingly? Christopher Connor (talk) 19:56, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't his birth name, fist name, be included in the introduction?

Shouldn't the introduction somewhere include that his birth name, or first name is Barry Soetoro? I thought this was fairly well known in the mainstream community, and was suprised to discover it isn't even mentioned in the introductory paragraphs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.12.252.111 (talk) 05:17, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Obama's Faith

I ran across this article and thought it might be an appropriate source identifying Christianity as Obama's declared faith. It also mentions that he draws from Eastern religions, Islam, and Judaism. I hesitate to plop it into the article right away, though, so I thought I'd bring it up here. Ninjatacoshell (talk) 21:40, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

It is from an interview with a notable journalist (Cathleen Falsani) in a notable publication (Chicago Sun Times), so it should be OK as a source for the article.--JayJasper (talk) 22:15, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a very good interview, and outlines what many have suspected Obama's beliefs were, put into writing with his own words. No particular dogma or exact 'brand' of Christianity, just Christian. I'm sure people who are religious/spiritual but have college degrees can relate. As for using it as a reliable source, I have no problem with it. Dave Dial (talk) 22:37, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Contrary to the FAQ above, it would POV to not mention ANY muslim connection to his family roots. Granted he is christian, fair enough and it should be given greatest emphasis, but considering most of his family is Muslim that ought to be mention too.Lihaas (talk) 08:42, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Hair

Nothing about his hair changing colors? 71.255.94.205 (talk) 12:48, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

why would that be relevant? He's getting older. Duh. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 13:20, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

For something of this nature to warrant a mention in this article, it would need to be extensively covered by mainstream media sources. Besides, haven't you noticed that all presidents suffer from this problem? Even fictional presidents do! -- Scjessey (talk) 14:43, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Spouse dates in infobox

I don't work on a whole lot of biographies, but was surprised that after First Lady's name, it listed 1992-present. I checked Bush and Clinton - neither of them had dates for their spouses listed. Is it normal procedure to list the dates? If so, I guess we should modify Bush's and Clinton's articles to list their dates as well. --Habap (talk) 15:00, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

No, this shows that this article is out of compliance and should be fixed. France is the greatest (talk) 22:56, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm hoping that someone who is not currently banned can have a look at this and let me know if it makes sense to have that entry or not. --Habap (talk) 23:11, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

• I would imagine it's unecessary to have 1992-present there, unless there is a divorce or something. I could see if there were previous marriages like Ronald Reagan(who I believe is America's first divorced President, although I could be wrong), but don't see a need otherwise. Dave Dial (talk) 00:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Presidential Polls

Just wondering: should we include a presidential job approval graph like other presidential articles have had?--Schwindtd (talk) 23:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Have other presidential articles had that? I just don't remember one for Bush and Clinton predates Misplaced Pages so I am guessing one was never added to his. If it was ever on Bush's article, it isn't now. I personally am not a fan because there are too many varying surveys that could be used and choosing what data to use and how to weight it would only lead to considerable conflict. However, if such a graph were to be used it certainly shouldn't be used here, it should be used in the article about his presidency. It doesn't make sense to put a graph of his approval ratings into his bio. I could see referencing it in the article if the generally acceptable numbers hit notable highs or lows at particular points. But that's just my thought on it.Jdlund (talk) 05:48, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Dead link

The links to the American Conservative Union's webpage that are supposed to have Obama's ratings are dead. I tried to add a template, but found it was locked, so I figured I'd post it here and editors who know more than I do can take it from here. 76.4.240.95 (talk) 03:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Fixed em'. Thanks for pointing it out.--NortyNort (Holla) 04:43, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't his full ethnicity African-American/Caucasian be included?

Why isn't there anything in here about him being African-American and Caucasian? The terms denote ethnicity, not skin color, and so should both probably be included so as to not give a false impression, as we would write the same thing for someone of two African-American parents, but he is different and so we should use another term to portray that.

Inclusive, I also spoke to someone the other day that didn't even know President Obama was Caucasian and African-American, which[REDACTED] seems to be perpetuating by not saying at the beginning that he's African-American and Caucasian. He's equally both so we should include that. Otherwise you should just say he's the first dark-skinned president? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whatzup45 (talk • contribs) 02:34, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Did you see Q2 in the FAQ at the top of this page? Everard Proudfoot (talk) 22:41, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Signing the closing of threads

I ask again that all editors sign their names when closing a thread here on the talk page. It's courteous and also enhances the historical record. Some of you have been really good about doing this, but please, everyone do this. Ikilled007 (talk) 18:23, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Barack Obama nao nasceu no Kenya??

Bom minha duvida eh essa, se ele eh um presidende afro-americano, pq eh que colocaram q ele nasceu em Honolulu Hawaii, que pertence aos EUA, sendo que ele mesmo diz em outras reportagens, inclusive postadas no youtube que ele nasceu no Kenya? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.92.225.183 (talk) 18:48, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

You would be better off at pt:Talk:Barack Obama. But the fact that Obama was born in Hawaii and not Kenya is accepted by everyone except a select group of people. Grsz 19:42, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

You can find more information about this at Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories and in the FAQ sections at the top of this page. - Wikidemon (talk) 20:01, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

"The Iraq"

I don't have an account and the page is locked. Someone want to remove the definite article "the" from the captioned picture in the "Iraq War" section? Not that we don't appreciate your contributions, Miss South Carolina. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.137.31.108 (talk) 11:52, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

• Good eye. I've changed the caption. Thanks. Dave Dial (talk) 12:55, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

"Cultural and political image" addition

This new addition seems to go overboard in the strength of its claims ("without precedent in modern history" - what about Kennedy?), the laudatory tone, and WP:WEIGHT. It's also out of chronological sequence, and unsourced. We already have two paragraphs on the positive international opinion of Obama from his first year in office, so I don't think we need more. It might make a little sense to have an image to illustrate how Europeans or others think of him, but why this particular image by Jorge Rodriguez-Gerada? The person who added this is editing from a new single-purpose account that has done nothing but expand the article about the artist, and add mention of him to this and three other articles. Under the circumstances I think we should remove the whole thing from this and the other articles, and issue a WP:COI notice to the editor. Any thoughts? - Wikidemon (talk) 16:06, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks like self (or atleast friendly) promotion to me. Axe it WD. Grsz 16:10, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Iraq War

The article states, "On August 31, 2010, Obama announced that the U.S. combat mission in Iraq was over."

But this is not true.

On September 5, 2010, Associated Press reported, "Days after the U.S. officially ended combat operations and touted Iraq's ability to defend itself, American troops found themselves battling heavily armed militants assaulting an Iraqi military headquarters in the center of Baghdad on Sunday. The fighting killed 12 people and wounded dozens."

On September 7, 2010, CNN reported, "An Iraqi soldier opened fire Tuesday on a group of U.S. soldiers in northern Iraq, killing two and wounding nine others, the U.S. military and the Iraqi military said."

The article should be corrected to reflect these facts.

71.182.189.126 (talk) 18:02, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

The article is correct that this is Obama's announcement. Given length constraints and the difficulty agreeing on things around here, it is not practical to update this parent article constantly to stay fresh with the news of the day. There is probably more room for that in the various articles about the war and about Obama's foreign policy. After some amount of time, say a few weeks from now when we know whether things are quiet or the skirmishes continue, we can look back and decide whether it's worth adding a parenthetical note that despite the announcement the fighting continued for a while (or got worse, or better, or whichever way it happens). - Wikidemon (talk) 18:08, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

(ec)Hi Grundle. "The combat mission is over" means just that; what the troops were there for is at an end, and they can/will be withdrawn from the theatre of operations. That doesn't magically mean that hostilities end or that they will not defend themselves when attacked. Tarc (talk) 18:09, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Recently, I was with some veterans of Operation Dragoon, who admitted surprise when told that their campaign ended on 15 Sep 44. One remarked, "Someone forgot to tell the Germans" who kept shooting at him. While Presidents, Generals and historians may make pronouncements about when something has ended, that doesn't mean people stop shooting.... --Habap (talk) 18:43, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Exeternl links

I dont know if this ahs been said, but WP:Consensus can change and WP:EL[REDACTED] is not a repository of links, so the lsit needs to be cut.

1. certainly dont need a whole list of bios, some can be cited in here (and if they can be then theres no need for EL's)
2. news articles dont need to be here, or if a link to a search fo obama 1-2 can suffice
3. in linewith the above, directories/news searches can be cut too (some 1-2 combined)
4. official sites re the links to have, so this seems good.Lihaas (talk) 09:01, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Unexplained reverts

was reverted by Threeafterthree adn Prolog WITHOUT any explanation. I agree they dont have room here because the page is too long, but if sources then criticism should be somewhere.Lihaas (talk) 09:08, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Article size

WP:Article size means this page is way too long and takes forever to load, now there already are split off pages, yet at least 2 section still go on for para's on end. A summation and a link to the main page is the point of a split so those 2 can be cut down to size somehow. ill leave it to the page monitors to decide, because this is "their baby" instead of fightingLihaas (talk) 09:08, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

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