Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:49, 8 February 2006

• WP:ANI
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This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems.

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• Refining the administrator elections process
• Blocks for promotional activity outside of mainspace

User:Flameviper12

Earlier this evening, Flameviper12 (talk • contribs) created the Randomness (Ninjas) article. This was rightly tagged for speedy deletion by User:Mhoskins. I have chosen to do something different, for which I'm now asking feedback. In the article, Flameviper12 begged not to delete it. I therefore decided to move it to his userspace, at User:Flameviper12/Randomness (Ninjas). On his talk page, I explained to him that I did this on one condition: that he improve his behaviour. The feeling (illusion?) I get, judging from his talk page, is that he is a bored child who means well. I have also told him that if he ever creates one more unencyclopedic article or makes one wrong edit, I will immediately retroactively delete Randomness (Ninjas) from his user space. I did this because I wanted to give him an incentive to improve. I wanna know if I did this the wrong way. If so, feel free to overrule me and delete the article from his user space. Aecis 23:48, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

You followed precedent in that, although I have my own discomfort. When an editor has generally good edits and then pulls a boner, moving the whoopsie article to his user space is a great thing, but when an editor has a terrible record and merely says "donot delet," I worry that we are a free web host. What I'm saying is in no sense a condemnation of what you did. You did the right thing in showing Wiki-love. I am just personally worried about how often and how much we do this. Geogre 11:48, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, I've told him that I will immediately delete the article if he ever makes another wrong edit. So if he continues his behaviour, the article will be deleted, and if he stops his behaviour, we'll have lost a troll and gained a contributor. Calling it a win-win situation would be stretching it, but I don't think it can do us much harm. Anyway, if you ever come across another wrong edit from him, please notify me so I can delete the article, or delete it yourself. Aecis 13:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Flameviper has continued in his behaviour, so I've deleted the article. Apparently he wouldn't listen. Aecis 21:29, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Apology from North Carolina vandal

I am the North Carolina vandal, and I apologise for ALL my vandalism. Please unprotect the WoW template. --Gavona 10:38, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

• • Your apology is commendable, but I doubt any unprotection is going to come out of it. Karmafist 12:58, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
  • You keep apologizing, but continue to vandalize. If you want to be treated as a respected editor, just start editing without continually telling us you're the NC vandal. So long as you keep identifying yourself as such, and don't make any valid edits, you will continue to be treated as the vandal you are. User:Zoe| 17:43, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Hold it, hold it... the North Carolina (US) vandal uses the UK spelling of "apologise"? Hm... RadioKirk talk to me 13:55, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Quite believable. I've never been off the North American continent, but I spell it "colour" most of the time, and I've never been able to remember if I should be using "gray" or "grey". --Carnildo 22:06, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Slow motion minor vandal

Review requested... 24.62.158.97 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) has been making edits to Sleeping car that are the typical "Bill is da bomb!" insertions over the last three days. Today I noticed he also touched the Joseph Glidden article, changing a couple characters in the lead section. After each, I added successive {{vw}} tags. Following this pattern, he would have two more days of minor vandalism before a block is imposed (he'd get {{vw4}} tomorrow and a block on Friday). The question is whether I'm being too lenient and if should just block him now for two days (since the edits are generally a day apart, 24 hours probably wouldn't even be seen). I haven't blocked anyone yet, but if this guy keeps up, he may be the winner of my first block sweepstakes. AdThanksVance. Slambo (Speak) 22:12, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

• I'd give him one more warning, then block him. You're right, he seems to vandalize a little bit then run off somewhere else, but he doesn't do it just one day at a time. If he vandalizes again and you give him a final warning and he keeps going, I think it's reasonable to block him. Mo0 16:56, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks. He skipped yesterday, but returned today and was reverted by another editor. Now he's {{vw4}}'d. Slambo (Speak) 18:45, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Interesting edits by Congress (RFC, etc.)

See:

Kim Bruning 03:50, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

and - please re-block the IP - the IPs vandalism was reverted, and then repeated from the same Congressional IP; I reverted this. I know an IP block is alleged to block other users. Congress refuses to self-regulate; we must take action; I grow weary of reverting. Elvey 04:44, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

AND! Has attacked the RFC again, I'm in a slow revert war here. This person has been removing comments by Jamesday. Kim Bruning 10:48, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Hello! They messaged me again. Could someone please block, checkuser, and all that? User_talk:68.50.103.212, thank you for your time. Kim Bruning 21:28, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I have no ability to checkuser, but I have blocked this IP for 12 hours for removing these comments. I'd rather not block for longer, in case they decide to contribute to the RFC more constructively, but if someone thinks a longer block is needed, I have no objection. Demi /_C 21:51, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Unfair Blocking Complaint

I will post here the same text I posted to WikiEN-l mailing list in search of answers: -- 68.50.103.212 10:19, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Context

This concerns the article Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/United States Congress, within the subsection "The established conduct methods have not been used." This section erroneously states "Both the Senate and the House have established ethics bodies which, so far as I can see, have not yet been used in an attempt to resolve this matter." (only members of the respective body can refer matters to the ethics committee)

Background

I possibly erroneously removed this . User:Kim Bruning reverted my changes reminding me not to delete comments from an RFC. I then corrected myself moving the erroneous text to the discussion page , explaining "Comments are misguided and statements are blatantly false, moved to talk." User:Kim Bruning immediately reverted my changes, ignoring my comment and saying "RV political vandalism. Please watch, block" I later reminded Kim that this was not vandalism and again moved the erroneous material to the discussion page , and explained "These comments are in the talk area and contain factually incorrect accusations. please do not revert again (3RR)." User:Kim Bruning threatened me on my user talk discussion page with "consequences" that "can be rather dramatic," and though not an administrator ordered me "don't touch that page."

Blocked

Responding to misleading comments by User:Kim Bruning, administrator User:Demi then unilaterally intervened and blocked me for 12 hours with the brief explanation of "Repeatedly removing valid comments from RFC." I believed this was an abuse of administrative privileges. I do not see how was in violation of any Misplaced Pages policy. The Misplaced Pages article for blocking policy under the category "Excessive Reverts", links to the Three-Revert Rule. ("The policy states that an editor must not perform more than three reversions, in whole or in part, on a single Misplaced Pages article within a 24 hour period.") which as you can see I am not in violation of. I was not warned by any administrator and no arbitration was offered.

Follow-up

I have twice emailed User:Demi asking for an explanation, arbitration, or leniency for the excessive 12 hour block.

As explained in these emails to Demi, I am one of the primary contributors to the article in question. I am the original author and primary contributor to the related article Misplaced Pages:Congressional Staffer Edits. I also was the user who originally uncovered the extent of the abuses by the Congressional IP address beyond Congressman Meehan. I have repeatedly worked to revert vandalism in Misplaced Pages as represented by my contributions. All of my edits have been in good faith. I believe this absolutely falls under the Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy for Controversial Blocks.

Plee

I ask that some form of arbitration be introduced to this situation. I still protest that my edits were correct and leaving factually incorrect information in the RFC degrades the credibility of the RFC and Misplaced Pages as a whole.

Furthermore if you have a review process for administrators I would recommend it for administrator User:Demi as I was blocked with no warning from any administrator, no arbitration was offered. Demi posted on my user discussion page but gave no explanation of my block other than he “disagree with your description of the situation.” Admin added to the discussion that “This isn't a democracy, we don't have to present you with laws (policies) that you violated . You did the wrong thing.”

Questions

I ask the Misplaced Pages Community, are there no rules or regulations for administrators? Can administrators make unilateral decisions as to that what is “wrong or right?” How can any user know what is wrong or right? Were the actions of User:Demi correct?

Can any user post false declarations in an RFC? -- 68.50.103.212 10:19, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I am not familiar with the history of the situation so I can't comment on whether any administrator was right or wrong, but I do know that you were wrong to remove comments from the RFC, especially when you were already told not to do so. If they are factually incorrect as you say, the correct thing to do would be to reply underneath the declaration, explaining why it was incorrect. Simply removing it gives the impression that you have something to hide. Raven4x4x 09:31, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Range block / Jack Abramoff

The problem with anons at Jack Abramoff continues, and has now spread to the talk page hist. So:

• Can I sprotect a talk page (yes I know I *can*; is it considered unreasonable?)
• Can I reasonably range block 217.132.174.44/16?

Your input is appreciated... William M. Connolley 20:29, 2 February 2006 (UTC).

From Misplaced Pages:Semi-protection policy : In the exceptional circumstance that you protect a User or user talk page, use {{usertalk-sprotect}} instead. With regard to the range, it's not an AOL IP range, but maybe it belongs to another ISP. Jacoplane 20:39, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind that, you were referring to an article talk page. Jacoplane 20:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

The IP you mentioned: 217.132.174.44 ISRAEL, TEL AVIV, Jerusalems BROADBAND SERVICE. Should be fine to block. Jacoplane 20:46, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

He's actually asking about the IP range 217.132.0.0/16, which is a lot of addresses—presumably the entire ISP's pool of broadband IP addresses with maybe some collateral damage on the side. It might be better to sprotect the pages in question if that's the only place where trouble is coming up. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:02, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll hold off the range block for the moment :-), esp as it would have been my first. William M. Connolley 21:17, 2 February 2006 (UTC).

Okay, I have to admit my own ignorance here. But will someone good with slow people (read: me) mind explaining to me what exactly a range block is? What is this /16 thing... a multiplier I guess, but how does it functionally work? If this is too much explanation to be reasonable on-wiki, maybe someone could point me to an informational website somewhere. · Katefan0/poll 21:23, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

m:Range blocks, and no, I don't really understand it either.--Sean Black (talk) 21:31, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

See CIDR for the explanation of the /16. --cesarb 21:34, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Our Subnetwork article lays it out pretty well, but it is not a simple concept. Where I work, I need to explain how IP ranges work sometimes in training, but I need a blackboard to make it clear. Jonathunder 21:38, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

• Unh, Jewish "vandal" here. You could try to to range block our IP address as part of the CIDR block, which as you can see matches the CIDR prefix but then you would essentually have to block out EVERYONE IN HAIFA, and a little secret. We are rerouting. You might have to block out the entire north of Israel. But going by some of the Israel Bashing attitudes here YOU MIGHT LIKE DOING THAT. 85.250.102.83 22:59, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Once you set the R-block, we can reset the range until you will have to really shut out the entire world. Or so says our smart Jewish Computer expert. Who we are holding back with a chain.

• • Such histrionics will get you nowhere, sir. Calm down. --Golbez 23:01, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Please note that several ranges have been used. Another one seems to be in Haifa. See the history on the main article and its talk page for other examples. If you can keep the article and it's talk page semi-protected for a while I think things will be better. The person (or persons) in question don't seem to be ranging very widely. --StuffOfInterest 21:44, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Umm, sorry to be a pest, but the vandal has now turned his attention to Jack Abramoff/AbramoffRefactor. Could it possibly be included in the protection? --StuffOfInterest 21:47, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

And add in with that Talk:Jack Abramoff/AbramoffRefactor. Current round of vandalism coming from 85.250.122.199. --StuffOfInterest 22:04, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

And now from 85.250.102.83 --StuffOfInterest 22:09, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Done. · Katefan0/poll 22:12, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! --StuffOfInterest 22:14, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

66.237.172.226 (talk · contribs) has just come to Misplaced Pages:Articles for creation asking for a talk page for Talk:Jack Abramoff, to discuss its semi-protection. ☺ Uncle G 23:25, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

As it happens, I've already made one Talk:Jack_Abramoff/anon_talk, though it may no longer be needed... William M. Connolley 23:33, 2 February 2006 (UTC).

I see that that sprotect was removed overnight (Eastern US time). Of course, soon afterward, our friend who contributed above returned. I expect that things will be going full speed ahead again soon. He is now working from 62.0.142.2 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log). Also interesting to see that he is posting threats and acusations over here now (noted above from IP 85.250.102.83 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log). --StuffOfInterest 11:37, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Not for nothing, since I've been a heavy target of this anonymous IP's ire, but I don't agree with how this is being handled. {{sprotect}} on a talk page for over 24 hours is ridiculous. This seems to run counter to everything that the policy at Misplaced Pages:Semi-protection states. I've done the research and there are indeed multiple other valuable anon-IP contributors from the same ISP ranges, so a mass block is out of the question.

There's two options - return to the table and continue to talk it out, or write up the behavior for RfC and eventually RfArb. I felt that we were making some progress on discussing this topic on the talk page until about February 1 when Brad or one of his cohorts started a revert war on the article, and it's been downhill since. I have no problem with the anon IP stating their viewpoint as long as they are not disruptive or make attacks.

Although I disagree completely with their tactics, the anonymous user does have an iota of a point in wanting to make sure that Abramoff is not portrayed as some sort of Jewish Willie Horton. I don't believe that they should get their wish that the word "Jewish" does not appear in the article, but the subject should be treated with dispassion. KWH 04:27, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Possible personal information disclosure, needs attention?

I don't know if this is worth attention, but the articel American Chess Association had someone write up a strongly biased, highly PoV rant on the subject, that also included someones SSN. Is this grounds for revision deletion, or am I overreacting, or...? Thanx 68.39.174.238 21:44, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Says the guy is dead, so does it matter? - Just zis  Guy, you know? / 22:27, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it matters. I have removed the infor from the page history, along with plenty of other reverted vandalism by the same IP. The IP has been blocked for repeated vandalism and legal threats. Physchim62 (talk) 22:44, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Upon notice of your death, the federal government publishes your SSN. I'm not sure why they do this, but if I had to guess it is probably to help reconcile banking and financial records which may be part of your estate. Regardless of the reason, the SSN of a deceased person is public record. In fact I just went and looked it up and I can verify that the name matches the SSN provided. The SSN is not something we need worry about. Dragons flight 23:06, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

The main reason for publishing the SSN upon death is to prevent misuse. If someone tried to use that SSN to open a bank account, for example, it would raise red flags at the bank as soon as routine checks were done. Jonathunder 23:13, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if it matters or not, but it does not seem to add to the article, so I took it out of the text of the article. As for deleting it from the history, it does not seem to me that Physchim62 has actually done this. The information seems to still be there. Johntex\ 23:14, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

All the personal info appears to be gone now. Ral315 (talk) 15:32, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

All SSN info on individuals should be deleted on sight, since they are not, contrary to popular belief, unique. Tomer 10:45, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

The Final Solution linking to a virus-inserting site

The Final Solution (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I blocked the above user indefinitely for repeatedly inserting a link to[REDACTED] DOT on DOT nimp DOT org, which apparently infects loads the browsing computer with a virus malware/forkbombs. If such actions don't warrant an indef block, feel free to shorten it, but I believe that such actions are extremely harmful and are grounds for banning. --Deathphoenix 02:14, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I got the IP. Working now on adding the link to the blacklist. Raul654 02:25, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I got it working. Any attempt to save a page with a link to that page will fail. Raul654 02:29, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

No virus, just a Javascript forkbomb, a bunch of shock images, and a not-computer-lab-safe shockwave sound effect -- none of which works in a text-only browser :-). --Carnildo 08:34, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Corrected above. I was just repeating what the WP:AIV reporter said, and I was certainly not willing to test the link myself, since my "test" computer is currently out of commission. :-P --Deathphoenix 16:49, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

That's what I keep a copy of Lynx or Telnet around for. There's very little that can get through Lynx, and nothing can touch telnet. --Carnildo 22:15, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Please take a look urgently at attack on Main Page article Restoration spectacular

Thank you for trying to stop him; however his edit led me to getting a virus and having to restart my computer. I want his IP address hard-banned and all user accounts indefinitely blocked. NicAgent 02:01, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I got the above message on my page from a user who has helped revert vandalism on today's Main Page article. OK, I don't understand these things. Does it make sense about the virus? I have semiprotected the article; no, I know I'm not supposed to, but a concerted attack like this warrants it, I think. I'm going to bed now, could somebody please look into the virus thing, and unprotect the article whenever it seems possible/reasonable? Compare also the thread above, it's the same link being inserted. Bishonen | talk 02:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC).

See my comment above. Raul654 02:25, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

The named accounts are all indef blocked. -Splash 02:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Clicking on the link that was added to the page certainly brings up a load of GNAA-branded mal-stuff; very possibly a viral payload or two in there as well. Fun. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:32, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I am checking on that possiblity right now. Raul654 02:36, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

(ec) I've indef blocked Cyber_ninja (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who was inserting the link into Misplaced Pages. Before I saw this discussion, I was going to check out the website to see what it was, but my instint told me not to, and from the description above, I'm glad that I didn't. :-) Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 02:37, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the semiprotection from the article. Because I've added the website to the blacklist, any attempt to revert to a version of the article containing that link will fail. Raul654 02:38, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Raul654, thanks guys, you rock. Bishonen | talk 02:43, 3 February 2006 (UTC).

Wonderful! --Deathphoenix 02:52, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Last Measure

I took a look (using wget and less) at the source code of that page, and it is obviously Last Measure. It's not a virus. --cesarb 02:48, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

What's more, has the revealing snippet: "Any subdomain or file on *.on.nimp.org leads to the above linked Last Measure, as the 404 error page has been replaced with Last Measure.". Raul654, please change the blacklist regexp to be more abrangent. --cesarb 02:52, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

That's good. I'll note that this one did launch Outlook express on me, a behavior I don't see mentioned on Last Measure (Though the visuals all fit, of course. And I'm always glad I run with my speakers turned off :-) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, looking at the code for that page, it seems it has code to create some iframes with mailto: links. I'd guess the visual effect of that would be the same as clicking on a mailto: link — to open whatever has been configured as your default MUA. It also seems to use news: links. --cesarb 03:05, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure how to modify the blacklist entry so as to include all *.on.nimp.org files. I've added an entry for on\.nimp\.org (which is my best guess) but I performed a test and it appears not to have worked (at user:Raul654/temp). Raul654 02:58, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Looking at other entries on the blacklist, I'd try \.on\.nimp\.org (perhaps the extra \. at the beginning does the trick). --cesarb 03:09, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Good call - that did it. Raul654 03:11, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

How could it not be a virus?? When I clicked on the link to gauge the magnitude of the vandalism, I was appaled at its shock-site nature, but then all of a sudden my virus protector detected four infections, only two of which were corrected before no less than 47 processes on my computer started up and forced its rebooting to clear the viruses through the safeguard I use, eTrust Personal Firewall. NicAgent 03:00, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Just because it triggered your antivirus program doesn't necessary means it's a virus. Antivirus programs nowadays tend to be on the lookout for lots of different kinds of malware - not necessarily just viruses and worms. Raul654 03:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Then why did the programs of Internet Explorer and Microsoft Outlook open like 20+ windows each? Obviously something went wrong... NicAgent 03:05, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

See my answer above. --cesarb 03:05, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but virus or no virus it was "malware". Goodnight; its been quite a long evening for us here on Misplaced Pages. NicAgent 03:15, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Here's a fool rushing in where angels fear to tread: It kind of depends on your definition of "virus." There was no code downloaded to you, NicAgent, that replicated itself in your memory. It ran once. Now, that one run meant "Open everything! Play obnoxious noises! Show disgusting pictures!," and it could even have meant "Overwrite the home page on the browser to us," and it might even have been "Redirect all searches to our Pr0wno site." Those things are malicious, damaging, potentially very, very, very damaging, but they're not replication. So they can be fully awful, immoral, evil, bad, stinky, uncool, stupid, pustular, vaccuous, invidious, abhorrent, vile, assinine, puerile, criminal, and otherwise bad without actually being viruses. Geogre 03:23, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Acharya S

See this and this, and . Violation of WP:NPA. --Ragib 07:39, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Gave him a {{npa2}}. If he continues past {{npa3}}, just block him. --LBMixPro 10:52, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Bobblewik

Ambi has blocked Bobblewik for two weeks for his efforts in unlinking dates and used rollback to reverse his most recent changes. I understand where she's coming from but I feel the block is a bit excessive. Bobblewik has not been trying to force the date linking issue - he uses the edit summary "Make date links match policy ie MoS(dates), MoS(links) etc. Revert or comment in MoS talk". I was happy to see those changes on pages on my watchlist and those who have not been as happy have reverted without problems. Discussion on this issue has been stagnant for some time and it seems to me that Bobblewik's efforts are a good way of generating wider discussion - but I'm obviously biased since I happen to agree with him :) - Haukur 07:59, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

If discussion has stalled, he should post here or at the Village Pump, not just assume "Silence=Agreemant" and instistute his changes en masse.--Sean Black (talk) 08:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I will say this: even though I disagree with the unlinking project, when you revert his unlinks, he leaves it alone. He doesn't edit war over it. Sometimes I leave articles after his unlinking, and sometimes I roll them back (if the article is highly historical, where each year matters a great deal), but, whichever action I take, he doesn't pursue it. I agree that he should get positive assent, not lack of dissent, before making a mass change, but I also don't think a block of that duration is necessarily called for if that's the only issue. I doubt it is. Geogre 12:17, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

You can see Ambi's reasons for the block at User_talk:Bobblewik. - Haukur 12:27, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

She makes excellent points. I agree with her requests and therefore her block. I do hope he uses a separate account for his -bot. Geogre 13:45, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

There is also discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Can we document scope and duration of suspension of the Manual of Style? Thincat 13:13, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• "His efforts are a good way of generating wider discussion" sounds like WP:POINT to me - "state your point, don't show it experimentally". >Radiant< 14:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

  I may be nitpicking but WP:POINT refers to actions which one undertakes but doesn't actually want done just to prove a point. Bobblewik clearly believes that his changes are beneficial. Your new signature is striking, by the way. - Haukur 14:29, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

  I don't think that's nitpicking - it's an important thing. Just because someone perceives a bold action as "disruptive" doesn't make it a WP:POINT violation. (I hope I should know, I wrote large chunks of the guideline in question!) Personally I think Bobblewik's changes are largely beneficial, though I've disagreed with them in some cases - though not at all enough to demand he stop - David Gerard 16:05, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• I point out that his edits are strictly in line with the current recomendations of the MoS, and while this guideline has been much debated, a consensus to change it has not yet formed, as far as I can tell. Disclosure: i favor the current guideline, and have made soem edits of the same sort. But blocking soemone for editing in accordance with the current state of the MoS seems improper to me. DES 18:19, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
• Has he served enough time now? This is a good, experienced, civil, productive editor. I'm not sure a two week sentence is really the most beneficial way ahead. - Haukur 17:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

More malware at Restoration spectacular on Main Page

At this edit is yet another GNAA link which was inserted an hour or two ago; please do what it is you do with that as well (see above). I've blocked the inserter, another nonce account. Bishonen | talk 08:24, 3 February 2006 (UTC).

Tinylink.com, tinyurl.com, and all other URL shortener sites should probably be on the spam blacklist -- there's no way to tell where the URL goes. --Carnildo 08:47, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

If it is a malicious site spreading malware, it should probably be deleted from the history as well. I have not tested the link :-) --Cactus.man ✍ 09:58, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I did. It's a nasty shock site that cycles various potentially offensive and/or disgusting pictures while spewing Javascript alerts to make leaving the site difficult. It also includes sound, but I didn't turn the volume up enough to hear what it was playing. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 10:14, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, glad you tested it and not me :-) --Cactus.man ✍ 10:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Is User:Timecop still blocked? And yet we still have GNAA members allowed to use Misplaced Pages. Has the person inserting the malware links been blocked indefinitely? User:Zoe| 16:32, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Watch this space - David Gerard 17:16, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• Unblocked by Curps with reason "Whatever", reblocked by Mark Sweep for trolling (well duh) then unblocked by Freak of Nurture because nobody is commenting on this (huh?). On the one hand it may be time for an ArbCom case on the entire GNAA matter. On the other hand they'd probably enjoy that. >Radiant< 17:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Err, the offending and potentially damaging link is still in the history. I thought it had been removed? --Cactus.man ✍ 19:31, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

No, deleting individual reversions is (1) very difficult/impossible for pages with a large number of reversion, and (2) a very bad idea while it's on the main page Raul654 19:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Blocked IP

207.172.82.165 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) blocked 1 hour per WP:NPA and vandalism to User:Eusebeus. Not on the AOL range lists as far as I can tell, can someone please double check that this is OK. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / 12:31, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• Looks like a cable modem IP, and they tend to be a little sticky. I would have blocked him longer, since he uses sneaky edit summaries and has been doing this for at least a day. –Abe Dashiell 14:34, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks, will extend to 24h. Just zis  Guy, you know? / 14:35, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous vandalism after repeated warnings

Anonymous user User talk:209.158.191.252 was blocked at December 9, but vandalized several pages since. On January 6 he received a last warning. Today he changed text in Pompeii and Stonehenge into nonsense. Please block. China Crisis 13:58, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Skull 'n' Femurs sockpuppet block

One of the many contributing to pushing Freemasonry toward 'wasteland' status is Skull 'n' Femurs (talk · contribs), who has been running at least two (Blue Square and Ima User). I blocked him 48 hours because he knew damn well what he was doing. (Assume Good Faith, but not in the face of the bloody obvious.) - David Gerard 14:18, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Copyvio violation

This is a copyright violation. The author of the piece, User:Zapatancas, is reverting the copyright violation himself instead of leaving an admin to sort it. he has now done this twice, here and here.

I warned him after his first revert here and he writes back accusing me of disruptive behaviour. Please can an admin urgently intervene as the author of a susopected copyvio cvannot keep reverting the copyvio notice. Perhaps a 24-hour block to cool him down? SqueakBox 15:20, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

SqueakBox has harassed me for long and that is another part of his harassment. The supposed source of the article, , explains clearly that the article is copied from the Misplaced Pages (in case of doubt, search Misplaced Pages with your browser). Zapatancas 15:31, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I can't, and won't, comment on the supposed harrassment here, but Zapatancas is definitely right about the "copyvio". The article SqueakBox linked to is from TheFreeDictionary, which is a copy of Misplaced Pages. Thus, not a copyvio. Cheers, fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 15:35, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

More riuibbish from Zapatrancas, who is the one harrassing me not the other way around. I did not put the copyvio notice on the article but I do nknow Zapatancas has no right to take it off. When Ihe first reverted I told him to get an admin to look at it but he would rather harrass me. If it isn't a copoyvio someone else can remove the notice. Zapatncas cannot so if Mark wants to he can. Zapatancas has now done it a third time. Please can an admin look at this situation, SqueakBox 15:41, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the notice. The article is obviously not a copyvio, and I see no reason why Zapatancas couldn't have removed the notice himself. In principle, we probably don't want "authors" removing copyvio notices. However, this tagging was so obviously a mistake that somebody had to remove it, and forcing Zapatancas to go get someone to do it is just silly m:Instruction creep.

By the way, I notice you both came right up to the very edge of the 3RR. Tut, tut. That's very irresponsible. I don't know what your problem with each other is, but revert warring is harmful wherever it takes place. fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 15:51, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Jack Abramoff

New day, new IP addresses for the vandal on Talk:Jack Abramoff. Today he is giving a repeat of yesterday in subtituting a modified version of the article text for the talk page. --StuffOfInterest 15:53, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

For some reason, only one IP was hitting it today so I blocked it. So far so good. · Katefan0/poll 20:19, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Male bikiniwearing

The deleted article Male bikini-wearing has re-appeared as Male bikiniwearing. Can someone delete it?? --Sunfazer (talk) 16:01, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Deleted and protected. Have a nice day. --cesarb 16:17, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

With Male bikini wearing already protected, maybe we can look forward to "Ma1e bikini wearing", "MALE BIKINI WEARING", "Male bikini wareing", etc. etc. --Deathphoenix 16:47, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

WP:BEANS. --cesarb 16:53, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Male all natural bikini wearing v1agr4? Geogre 17:40, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• No need to suggest that, see MALE BIKINIWEARING and its deletion log. Some trolls just don't give up easily. DES 18:10, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

We may just wanna buy the guy a nice bikini and be done with it. Any cash left over from the Foundation drive last month? -- User:RyanFreisling @ 18:13, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I said "MALE BIKINI WEARING" (with the space), but I guess the existence of the title without the space shows that my attempt at humour is already a reality. --Deathphoenix 18:36, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

"MALE BIKINI WEARING" has also apparently been a reality. ;) SyrPhoenix 18:39, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh great. I'd better stop making suggestions, lest WP:BEANS comes into play. --Deathphoenix 19:49, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Just a thought: why don't we just have an actual article on this fascinating subject? --Tony Sidaway 21:49, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Can we see the AFD of the main/parent article? User:Zscout370 22:09, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Why would males wear bikinis? I don't think the subject actually exists. It seems like a likely hoax. — Phil Welch Are you a fan of the band Rush? 22:11, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Men wear lingerie, I seen it on Jerry Springer. Maybe a "protected redirect" to Cross dressing would suffice. User:Zscout370 14:38, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

AfD voters went through Google, etc., and found no instances but those by the contributor of any "fetish" for men wearing bikinis, either fetish by wearers or spectators. The article was a hoax. The repetitions are further evidence of this one person's... interest. I know that no matter how bent the pot, there's a lid that fits, but if there is anything genuine about it, it hasn't managed to be mention in newsgroups or get web discussion. Given the nature of the web, that's a pretty damning indictment. Geogre 03:01, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Being a fetish not found anywhere on the web alone is almost enough to make this topic notable ;) -- grm_wnr Esc 07:28, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

esotericgoldendawn.com spammer

We've been having a problem with someone spamming www.esotericgoldendawn.com across the External links of a wide range of articles recently, with the descriptive line modified to fit whatever article the person is putting it on. See for example, the contributions of User:66.46.183.16, User:216.30.172.221, User:24.22.204.79, User:209.200.60.124, User:Dr. Gold, and I think lots of others I could track down if I spent the time.

The person doing this seems to have the sole purpose of adding that site to as many articles as possible, but occasionally adding one other or (more often) removing some other links). Normally I'd just undo these by hand, but there have been soooo many of them lately and sopersistent, it'd be nice if the site was added to our blocklist (I know it exists, have edited articles and not been able to save because an existing link buried in the middle of the article somewhere was on the list). Anybody want to tackle this or knows what's best to do, please be my guest. DreamGuy 17:04, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• Blocked the lot of them for 48 hours so we can discuss this with a time-out from further linkspamming. Given that this campaign has been running for quite some time already, somehow I doubt that'd help. What is the nature of these IPs? Open prox? Flexible dialup? Or what? >Radiant< 17:16, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

User: Terryeo

Terryeo has been a problematic editor of Scientology-related pages for quite some time now, deleting large portions of articles that are critical of Scientology and replacing them with illogical, poorly-written, non-neutral advertisements for Dianetics and Scientology. Since his edits are quickly reverted by many others, it hasn't been worth complaining about until recently: he has taken up the trolling tactic of attributing insulting statements to other editors that they did not make, especially myself. Today on the Talk:Suppressive_Person page, he claims I have stated "Scientology is bunk", which I have never said. A few weeks ago he stated on several different talk pages, "Wikipediatrix said 'Dianetics Kills'", which I also never said. There are at least three other incidents where Terryeo has done this, and when pressed on the matter each time, he simply ignores it and changes the subject. This constant lying about me is highly annoying and seems to be to proof of Terryeo's lack of good-faith editing and his desire to simply cause trouble on the Scientology pages, not to mention smear the reputations of editors who dare oppose him. wikipediatrix 17:40, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

One needs to show efforts to resolve the matter before escalating a dispute. If you can give a list of edits where you have attempted to resolve the dispute that would be useful. Then I can approach him too and see if we can't get some communication in progress without everything going apocalyptic - David Gerard 00:26, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it occurs to me he's ignored several people's concerns in this matter. This is the sort of situation an RFC was made for - David Gerard 00:29, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't really have the time to wade through the many edits on literally dozens of Scientology articles.... it's not something it occurred to me to keep records of till now. I was really expecting that some Scientology-watching admin would have already noticed his edit-warring which approaches vandalism at times (see the diff on this article where he typically inserts criticism of previous edits and their editors into the text of the article itself!), and his insufferable behavior on talk pages (Talk:Sea_Org and Talk:Clear_(Scientology), for example). If anyone out there reading these words cares whether or not the many Scientology pages on Misplaced Pages are censored by Scientologists and turned into blatant POV commercials for Dianetics, I urge them to keep a CLOSE watch on Terryeo and his edits. wikipediatrix 05:32, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I can verify what Wikipediatrix has said about Terryeo's smearing tactics; I've been the victim of them myself. When he resorts to just name-calling (such as the edit he made today where he called me "Beanbrain. Dogfood. Idiot.") I can just shake it off. But in other cases he has deliberately accused people of things he knew to be false; in one case I remonstrated with him on his talk page for falsely claiming that he'd "caught" editors he disagreed with violating a guideline, after he was already made aware that no one had violated the guideline, only the mistaken interpretation he had of it, which was shown to be mistaken by the examples on the page, which clearly contradicted his assumptions. Terryeo's response to this? "Hahahahaha." -- Antaeus Feldspar 23:49, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Blocking of User:Netoholic for revert warring on Template:Infobox

Earlier today I blocked Netoholic (talk · contribs) for engaging in a tandem revert war on Template:Infobox (edit | ] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) after someone requested on WP:RPP that it be protected. Considering the parties involved looked to be administrators I wasn't confident that protecting it would have any effect...but when I looked at the block record of Netoholic and checked the directives given on enforcing his ArbCom decision I felt he was being disruptive so I decided to enforce the ban regarding 1RR. I didn't block either of the other two because neither party violated 3RR in my opinion.

As Netoholic has contacted me by email and requested that his block be lifted, I welcome comments on this matter here. I will admit I am still somewhat new to my adminship so perhaps my interpretation is wrong, and I wouldn't be opposed to a shortening or lifting of the ban based on comments. I have also offered him an immediate repeal of the ban if he will refrain from the revert war on that template. --Syrthiss 18:04, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

User is unblocked. --Syrthiss 19:09, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

He usually does something similar. silsor 19:12, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

In an effort to stop this merry-go-round of aggravation (before we get Netoholic's fourth block today) I have suggested that a simple test be performed to determine whether or not edits to high use templates represent a risk to the servers. I'd appreciate any comments at the talk page linked above. --CBD _☎ 19:40, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• He is also revert warring with Locke Cole on Misplaced Pages:Avoid using meta-templates, which I have protected for the time being. >Radiant< 00:59, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• • What a funny, and biased, way to describe the situation. I can barely make any template-related edit anymore without being wikistalked. -- Netoholic @ 05:17, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Incipient wheel war

There appears to be an incipient wheel war brewing on {{User admins ignoring policy}}. See for the status so far. The template was nominated on WP:TFD, where the usual arguments ensued. Then, about a day after its listing, it was speedy deleted by User:MarkSweep with the summary "trolling". This is not a valid criterion for speedy deletion, and is very ill-defined; in practice, the term is often applied not only to disruption but also to good-faith disagreement. There was no consensus on WP:TFD, and at least one user asked for the template to be restored so he could see what he was discussing . User:Karmafist then restored it since the original deletion was out of process and a debate was still ongoing. MarkSweep then deleted it again with this summary: "out-of-process re-creation". This, too, is spurious, since it was the original deletion that was out-of-process, and a discussion was still taking place on WP:TFD. I am re-creating (from memory, as I lack administrative powers) the userbox at this time. Apparently, the initial userbox contained a link to User:Kelly Martin's RFC. This has been removed, and replaced with a link to WP:ACC, which cannot possibly be construed as a personal attack against anyone. I strongly urge that the debate on WP:TFD be allowed to run its course. I have attempted to discuss the issue with MarkSweep on his home page, but have received no response (except an accusation of WP:POINT on an unrelated TFD nomination). The irony is that by deleting this userbox, Mark is proving the point of his opponents. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 20:10, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• I restored the history, although my connection is a bit dodgy at the moment so I cannot check that all is OK. Personally I think this template is about as much use to an encyclopedia as {{user OJ}}, and should be deleted accordingly. It's only saving grace is its irony, as users who place it on their talk page are ignoring WP:DR and instead making remarks which they do not verify. Physchim62 (talk) 20:34, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
• There is no jutifaction for a speedy delete, much less repeated deletes on this tempalte. The current TfD seems to be heading towards delete, which I disagree with, but if that's what people want... In any case what is the rush about this? DES 20:43, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
  • You maybe didn't check the link. This is (was) a personal attack template against an individual editor. Speedy deleted. Physchim62 (talk) 21:23, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
    • It wasn't a personal attack. It was critical of a particular editor, though, in a possibly-inappropriate way. Isn't editing it a less invasive way to remove the alleged personal attack than deletion? Friday (talk) 21:29, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
• If people are upset about admin actions, they should use dispute resolution (ANI, RFC, RFM etc), not grumble about it on their talk pages. 'tis better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. >Radiant< 01:03, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
• We don't need the kind of incessant needling and taunting expressed by this template. I've seen a number of trolls act that way: they whine and complain and taunt, and when someone tells them to cut it out, they whine even more about how they've now been wronged and attacked. We shouldn't let ourselves be bullied into keeping a template which serves no useful purpose, just because someone will construe its deletion as a confirmation of the template's message. If you have specific misgivings about specific admin actions, you're more than welcome to air them in the appropriate venues. But vague whining and passive-aggressive farting in the administrators' general direction as exemplified by this template is utterly pointless, it's poisoning the well, and it will not stand. --MarkSweep (call me collect) 04:24, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• Pointless, maybe. I wouldn't put that (or probably any other) user box on my page. But there's no reason to continually delete this. More than one editor has undeleted, and you continue to delete? As a huge supporter of IAR, it's offensive to me that you used that as justification for this. You're not ignoring the rules, you're ignoring other editors who disagree with you. Please do not continue to wheel war over this, it is disruptive. Friday (talk) 17:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd say that a notice created for the purpose of trolling comes under disruption and can (though not necessarily should) be deleted. It seems unkind to suggest that administrators restoring it are necessarily disrupting Misplaced Pages to make a point, but certainly nobody should hesitate to delete such a silly thing on sight, no matter how many times it may be recreated. This seems to be more of the same kind of community-versus-encyclopedia warring that has taken hold of Misplaced Pages in the past few weeks. The aspects of the community that threaten the encyclopedia will be destroyed, probably sooner rather than later. This is just a symptom of the general malaise, and isn't worth fussing over. --Tony Sidaway 23:41, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Karmafist (talk · contribs) and unfree images in template/userspace

Hi. Karmafist (talk · contribs) has started reverting userbox templates back to containing unfree-copyrighted images again . I left a message at User talk:Karmafist quite some time ago, and the response left me with the impression that I am not the best person to get through to that user about this. Since it is my impression that User:Karmafist is a valued member of the community, I was hoping that someone who has a good collaborative relationship with User:Karmafist could perhaps have a word with him or her. Thanks. Jkelly 22:04, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Bad idea for a respected admin to play on the border of the 3RR rule. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 03:55, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Clarification

The real issue with me on this now isn't the icons, but rather the thuggery of certain users, including some who posted in regards to this on my talk page. Is the Wikimedia Foundation really so frightened of one admin who disagrees with them that they have to sick a goon squad out to do their bidding? Or is it just some goons on a power trip looking to exert intimidation over someone, and "decrees" give them an excuse to do so? To me, it's a clear WP:IAR, in this case WP:CIVIL is broken to uphold WP:FU, cancelling each other out.

I can get a decent alternative on one of the userboxes i'm "edit warring" on, and I can likely get permission in regards to the Dem logo (I know several Democratic National Committee members), but I may conduct some civil disobedience just to stand up to those bullies even if I do go down that route, which i'd prefer. I haven't decided yet.

One thing's for sure -- if those dicks are able to rally up a mob and lynch me for standing up for what I believe in, Misplaced Pages will be a worse place for it. That's my only real concern. I'd much rather have free images in the place of potentially non-free ones, but coercion by force isn't the Wikipedian way to do it.Karmafist 12:46, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Thuggery or no thuggery, I hope you understand WRT fair use, you were probably in the wrong (which is no big deal, as per Raul's law on copyrights -- many of us who think we understand copyright law really don't. I've probably fucked up on this somewhere too). There's no point pursuing "civil disobedience" when it's doing the wrong thing . Johnleemk | Talk 13:44, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Policies don't "cancel out." If one side is violating policy, that doesn't grant carte blanche to the other side to do the same. If people are being uncivil, then take it to dispute resolution, but don't use it as an excuse to act out against policy yourself; it is "sinking to thier level," seizing the lowest common denominator (in this case, all policy is thrown out the window). Also, it creates a never-ending cycle of policy violations: <begin intellectual exercise> They violate civil, cancelling out FU, you violate FU, cancelling out NPA, they violate NPA, cancelling out NPOV, you violate NPOV, cancelling out BLOCK, I block you indefinately, violating BLOCK and canceling out VANDALISM, you violate VANDALISM, cancelling out ADMIN, Jimbo promotes Willy on Wheels to administrator, signaling the beginning of apocalypse. <end intellectual exercise> The appropriate response is to remain safely within the bounds of policy (remember IAR includes the phrase "ignore all rules, including this one") and use the established dispute resolution proceedure to address the base issue, rather than retaliating with your own policy violations. Anytime you're invoking IAR to justify an action that is likely to (or is designed to) create more discord than good, then it's time to ignore IAR. Essjay 16:02, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what Karmafist's beef is; I'm sure he doesn't intend to wrongly use the property of other people in this freely licensed encyclopedia. I hope all parties, including Karmafist, will wake up in the morning and think of something more productive to do with their time. This is an encyclopedia, so let's write more good articles. --Tony Sidaway 01:05, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I do know. See the Gmaxwell stuff elsewhere. :-/

In other news, should I block you all for violating WP:WOTTA? ;-) Kim Bruning 01:08, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

This kind of crypic comment does not help. I look on this page and WP:AN and see nothing. Rather than wander all over Misplaced Pages for enlightenment, I think I should say: please explain more fully. I really have no idea what is going on here. Just explain so that people who need to know will know. --Tony Sidaway 02:58, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

See start of thread especially, with refs to IAR, CIVIL, DICK, etc etc :-) TMD TLA! ARG! Kim Bruning 03:06, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

This is not helping. Why can't you just explain what you're talking about for the benefit of people who don't know what this has to do with Gmaxwell? --Tony Sidaway 12:46, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh THAT part! That's easy: Sections Gmaxwell and Gmaxwell2 right on this page... eh where'd they go? OH! they must have been archived already. No wonder I got you confused! My apologies.

Ok, short summary:

This complaint is so similar to Slimvirgins complaints about Gmaxwell that at first I thought they were directly linked. Perhaps they are even.

There's some set of people who are checking for copyright violations on wikipedia, as well as removing "fair use" images that aren't. (Even trying to remove all fair use, if at all plausible). There's some set of people who will not let people remove images from their user pages, except over their cold, dead bodies. The stage is set for wikidrama :-/ Kim Bruning 13:05, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

• No, we haven't voted on that page yet. :P >Radiant< 01:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

New Instantnood Block

Not even two days after the block expired Instantnood is at it again, based on the following edits I have blocked him for two weeks for violation of his probation.

• Stanley

  Queen's Road

  Queensway, Hong Kong

  Category:Cinema of Hong Kong

  Category:Macau newspapers

  Category:Hong Kong newspapers

  --Wgfinley 22:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

user:Simonides

Personal attacks directed at two editors on Talk:Adolf Hitler. Wyss 23:09, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy

As many here will have noticed, this article has received a mindblowing amount of user attention over the past few days. Because the article is still linked to from the main page, it cannot the protected or semi-protected. The result of that is that the cartoon is removed from the article on an almost minute-to-minute basis. This is being done despite a clear and overwhelming consensus on the talk page to keep the cartoon in the article (currently 161/21/12), and despite massive warnings surrounding the image, telling the user that the image should by no means be removed. I believe that these warnings are not enough, and that removers won't listen to talk page warnings, since Allah is more important to most of them than Misplaced Pages. I propose a drastic measure. It has probably never been done before, and I hope it will never be done again. I believe that it is necessary to immediately block anyone who removes the cartoon from the article for 24 hours for blanking vandalism. This should stop the influx of vandalism on the article, which would reduce the need for full-protection/semi-protection once the article is no longer linked to from the main page. This in turn would allow good-faith IP's to contribute valuable information to the article. I'm afraid that the situation on the article is getting out of hand. We currently need around-the-clock vigilantes on the article, which costs valuable editor time that could be spent much more effectively on other articles. Aecis 23:29, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

At the very least, we can 3RR block persistent image removers. I just blocked 211.43.206.161 for example. howcheng {chat} 23:35, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Rgulerdem is also rapidly approaching a block. Aecis 23:40, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Rgulerdem has been blocked for 24 hours for violating 3RR. Aecis 23:51, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm willing to exempt those restoring the image from 3RR, but I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of blocking someone because they're expressing their faith, even if their methods are less than productive. Block persistent edit warriors (like with any article), not passerbys.--Sean Black (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I do not think that insta-blocks will work; most such editors are drive-by. I'm beginning to think we should semi- the article for a little while since it is probably being hit harder than George W. Bush on a pre-semi day. -Splash 23:44, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Just to complicate things, current reversions are coming from Saudi Arabian block proxies: anyone care to turn off Misplaced Pages in Saudi Arabia, 'cos I don't... Physchim62 (talk) 23:46, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I think there should be an exemption from 3RR for people who restore the image. The IPs go through 8,9, 10 removals before being blocked, and all the conscientious users exhaust their three reverts. This should be regarded as simple vandalism, and we should be able to restore it as many times as necessary? Do people agree with that? The community consensus is well over a supermajority here. Babajobu 23:48, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you on this. These reverts are blanking reverts, which is 3rr exempt. Aecis 23:52, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying, and I've said before this may be the exceptional case where it makes sense to protect an article linked from the main page. However, consensus is not actually established by polls, it is also established by action, and going down the road of discounting the opinions of those people removing the image from the article in your definition of consensus is a dangerous one. It is a tempting thing to imagine that having the image missing for a while is a terrible consequence, but it isn't really, and the article will eventually stabilize on a good (accepted) version. In the meantime, many people will have learned they can edit Misplaced Pages, and a few of them, even if they might not be making such great edits to this particular article, may stay and do something useful. There is precedent for restoring consensus being exempted from the 3RR (Gdansk/Danzig) but that was very well-discussed for a long time, while we have actually not been discussing this for that long. Demi /_C 23:58, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Why Demi, you cur! You fiend! You Judas! ;-) Yes, your points are well taken. I agree with you that polls are a crude manner of gauging consensus, but this one has produced an unusually emphatic answer. Regardless, I suspected that not everyone would agree that this situation warranted an exemption from 3RR; some agree, some don't. Perhaps a poll? ;-) Babajobu 00:08, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Instablock is ABSOLUTELY unacceptable. That's my 2¢. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 23:49, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, I'm happier with sem-protecting than with instant blocking. Semi is unfortunate and un-wikilike - and leaves noobs wondering what[REDACTED] is. But a good-faith drive-by noob who sees an image he passionetley objects to, reads 'anyone can edit' and decides to do just that, then gets blocked without any warning? That will look like draconian anti-Islamic censorship. If we have to do something (and do we?) lets semi for a time. --Doc 23:52, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Main page articles can't be semi'd, but I think IAR was meant for cases like this. Aecis 23:59, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Okay, forget instablocking, what about allowing restorers of the image to do so as many times as necessary? Are we agreed this is exempt from 3RR? Babajobu 23:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

It'd not really necessary. There are plenty of people avalaible. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 00:01, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with Baba here. It's not fair to block one way and not the other since the image is a disputed item here. Most people who visit the page probably didn't visit the poll on the talk page. Also the poll is full of people whose only edit has been to that poll and also IP addresses. --a.n.o.n.y.m 23:56, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

They may not have visited the poll, but they will have noticed the two massive warnings directly above the image. Aecis 23:59, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Okay, well at least three people have disagreed that exemption from 3RR is appropriate as of now: Anonymous Editor, Demi, and Theresa. So for now I think that's enough to conclude that there is no consensus for exempting restorers of the image from 3RR. Though I've only very rarely engaged in revert wars, in this case there's really no other way to defend consensus, so before anyone blocks me, please give me a warning because at this point I have no clue where I stand in relation to 3RR! Cheers, Babajobu 00:17, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Edit warring to remove sourced and valid information against consensus can be classified as vandalism without being unreasonable. Warn and block. Phil Sandifer 00:01, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Phil 100%. Removing the image is vandalism; it's black-latter policy that reverting vandalism does not count against the 3rr . Raul654 00:21, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Raul, so how should I and others proceed? Many admins do think this calls for exemption from 3RR, but at least three have stated that they don't...for those of us trying to ensure the image is kept as per the very strong consensus, do we regard 3RR as applicable here or no? Babajobu 00:25, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

You're not breaking 3RR if you're reverting vandalism, that's all there is to it. So don't break 3RR—but restoring an image with strong consensus, when it's removed without discussion, isn't breaking anything. If an admin blocks or warns over your actions, politely refer them to this discussion. -- SCZenz 00:33, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Goodness! Then I've discovered a terrible vandal--right in our very midst! And the vandevelopers are in on it, too! Sorry--as much as we might wish we could dismiss the opinions of people we disagree with as "vandalism", this isn't it. Twisting the definition of vandalism to include everything you disagree with has become a common tactic--I think it might need to be added to our guide to discussion. However, it's engaging in sophistry to avoid dealing with an actual dispute as what it is--a dispute. You may disagree with the disputants, you may even be right, but that doesn't in itself make them vandals. Demi /_C 00:59, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Slamdac is being awfully non-productive on the talk page... I think he's running dangerously close to some violations of policy. Anyone else? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 00:22, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, he's indicated that he agrees it's not helpful and he seems to be willing to back off. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 00:31, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Some admins are instablocking for one hour, even on shared IPs. If you must block, can you keep the time shorter on these IPs (for a first offense, obviously), there seem to be plenty of admins around to treat the problems on this page. Physchim62 (talk) 00:44, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I said to Babajobu before that these people need at least one 3rr warning. a.n.o.n.y.m 00:50, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree that people must get at least one warning before being blocked, I don't support instablocking. However, AE, it seems like there is a lot of support here for regarding removal of the image as vandalism, rather than a revert. Also, I'm not blocking anyone on this article, I only blocked one person who showed up on WP:ANI/3RR after I'd been away for several hours.Babajobu 00:53, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Why does the insta-block suggestion have to be for 24 hour blocks? Why not issue an hour block or something to start? Jdavidb (talk • contribs) 00:45, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Removing the image is vandalism, but vandals get warnings. At least one hand-written explanation inviting the user to use the talk page would be the minimum appropriate before any block, I think. -- SCZenz 00:47, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't even support instablocking, there should be at least one warning, then block. Babajobu 00:49, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I've been using {{bv-n}} for first offense on thsi one, with an added msg explainign that ther is consensu to leave the image. On repeated removals after the warning, i will block as disruption -- but only for a short time if the IP might be shared. DES 00:52, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but these vandals are being meatpuppets/sockpuppets; a justification to block on sight. Calling your (cyber)-terrorist cell mates to come over and help vandalise Misplaced Pages puts them in the same boat. Elle _{vécut heureuse} (Be eudaimonic!) 00:51, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Natalinasmpf, your remarks are way out of line. There is no evidence these are sockpuppets or meatpuppets—in fact, I rather suspect they are not. -- SCZenz 00:54, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

See also WP:BITE and WP:NPA. -- SCZenz 00:57, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention that the "terrorist" remark is in EXTREMELY poor form given the topic under discussion. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 00:58, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Agreed...natalinasmpf, I actually do suspect there is some meatpuppetry and sockpuppetry here, but the terrorism remark was totally inappropriate, cut that out. Babajobu 01:00, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

My experience on the Qu'ran page makes me suspect meatpuppetry. (The cell remark was just out of sarcastic exhaustion, pardon, I meant it mostly with the "cyber" prefix in there.) We already have a warning on the editing page. One should notice how the majority of the removals are mostly uniform, in the same kind of style. This kind of suggests someone posted about our article in some forum and asked people to help them vandalise it. It's just like voteflooding at AFD, only within a vandalism context. I don't have good opinions of people who are out to censor Misplaced Pages. I do have compassion for clueless newbies, but this is clearly malicious editing. I rather like the protestors' form of eye for an eye in expressing free speech, but it's the vandals who I equate with terrorism, I admit my remark it was a bit risque. Elle _{vécut heureuse} (Be eudaimonic!) 01:01, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I understand the situation is frustrating... But for any given vandal, you can't tell if they're a clueless newbie or malicious; you can only see the general pattern. That being the case, I think we have to warn them—the situation is not so dire as to suspend basic Wikiquette. -- SCZenz 01:06, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Well one warning and that is it, IMO. Looking through most of the diffs it appears that most have a bad faith intent. Elle _{vécut heureuse} (Be eudaimonic!) 01:19, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I've created Template:Mohammed as a warning template for users removing the image. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 04:11, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

The page was semi-protected for a while, and that seemed to work fairly well. I realize its disadvantages for brand-new editors, who simply want to genuinely add the article. (A template on talk suggesting accounts?) Septentrionalis 04:35, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

See template:anon. We already have one! Elle _{vécut heureuse} (Be eudaimonic!) 04:40, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Look up the user history of the IP User:165.230.149.152 - and you'd see that there was no repeat cartoon blanking vandalism on the Mohammed controversy from that IP. 165.230.149.154 05:59, 4 February 2006 (UTC) That means that there was no reason for that IP to be blocked.

I second the idea that protection in this specific case is probably the best of the remedies available, if remedy we desparately need. Part of the notion of our attention to this is that we should not be changing our editorial rules to accommodate Muslims--and yet, here we are making up special warn-and-block schemes and 3RR violation exceptions we don't usually carry out. Protection is better, and might actually drive some objectors to the talk page or other discussion venues, which is what we want anyway (rather than an unstable article). In contrast, "requiring" people to keep reverting in the face of a wave of "attackers" will just make everyone a lot angrier. Demi /_C 17:40, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

My problem is this. We do not protect articles linked from the main page. "Well it doesn't say it in the policy". Yes, it says it's "best not to protect". But you know, for those of us who actually protect pages, it's a rule we follow. I'm tired of those admins who have done 20-25 protections in their entire admin careers (if that) telling those of us who have done literally hundreds that we are just wrong. We're not. It's a convention we've been following for months and months. We follow it on all FA articles and on everything else linked from the main page. --Woohookitty 07:30, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Netoholic

Can someone please take a look at Netoholic (talk · contribs)'s user page? A number of editors have removed fair-use images used in violation of our fair-use policy (specifically, WP:FUC, item 109). I've attempted to inform him of the policy on his user page, but he removed it and continued to insert the fair-use images. Instead of accepting policy, he has accused me of wiki-stalking on my talk page. Some assistance here would be appreciated. —Locke Cole • t • c 05:56, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

This user is wikistalking me the last few days. He's revert warred on my user page, and left taunting challenges across several other pages. Admins, please look at his contribs and confirm that he's been following me around.

• reverting me on my user page, including vandalism after I change the image inclusions into links.
• followed me to Template talk:Infobox CVG in order to oppose my comments - a page he's never edited before.
• reverting me three times on Leet - a page he's never edited before
• About an hour after I made this edit on Template:Ship_table, he posted this note. He's never edited Ship_table or the talk page before.

There are more, but these are the most obvious ones. I would appreciate someone giving him a warning. -- Netoholic @ 06:25, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I can provide a link to a template you've never edited before which you magically showed up to just so you could revert me. Remember Template:Message? Who's wikistalking who here (and you were being disruptive on Template:Message)? Trying to paint yourself as the victim was a cute response though... too bad it doesn't fit the facts of your behavior the last many months. The only victim here is Misplaced Pages. —Locke Cole • t • c 00:17, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Locke Cole is blocked for 24 hours edit warring and 2nd block for harassment of Neto on his user page. Neto, fair use images are not allowed in the user space so that image should be removed but it's not his place to keep reverting your user page. Obviously this has absolutely nothing to do with Neto's user page and has everything to do with arguments on Template:Infobox and AUM and this kind of nonsense should cease post-haste. --Wgfinley 06:31, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually I saw this is Locke's 2nd block in 24 hours for edit warring and 2nd block for harassment so I have increased the block to 48 hours. --Wgfinley 06:35, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I fail to see how this block is consistent with WP:AGF. Aren't we assuming bad faith by conjuring up a nefarious motive for what is admitted to be justified edits? Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 06:43, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

He's still edit warring on someone else's userpage. This is a good block, though Neto should back off, too.--Sean Black 06:45, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm concerned that by sanctioning Locke and not Netoholic (even though Netoholic was himself technically violating Misplaced Pages policy on fair use images) there are some concerns about evenhandedness. This is especially important because Netoholic has often been able to get away with pushing the rules very far, and in some cases, outright breaking them. He's under an Arbcom injunction that is basically a dead letter. He has gotten some admin support by spinning various developer comments into support for WP:AUM. I'm afraid that this block of Locke Cole will simply embolden him to further edit warring and disruptive behavior. I'd have less of a problem if both had been blocked. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 06:49, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Crotalus, nothing in AGF states that you also have to be completely ignorant and pretend that Locke and you for that matter have been warring with Neto all day and might be just a wee bit enticed to harass him about his user page and Locke to coincidentally visit a number of articles he's never edited before that Neto just coincidentally happened to edit recently. --Wgfinley 06:47, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Who said it was coincidence? If a user makes disruptive or unwise edits on one page, it's perfectly reasonable to go through his other edits and see whether they might have been unreasonable as well. I do this all the time when I catch someone vandalizing or POV-pushing. Neto may be a bit more ambiguous, but his penchant for trying to fly "policy" in under the radar makes it necessary to watch his actions. Why have a "user contributions" link if you're not supposed to use it? FWIW, I have no interest in revert warring with him on his user page. When he tries to force his views on articles or templates against consensus, though, I will stand up to this. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 06:52, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Do I need to post a list showing that you're baiting/wiki-stalking me too, Crotalus? Here's just the most recent one, as food for thought. -- Netoholic @ 06:51, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

That edit summary was indeed ill thought out. I apologize for it. I do not, however, apologize for preventing you from imposing your views on other Wikipedians. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 06:53, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Per Misplaced Pages:Harassment: "This (Wikistalking) does not include checking up on an editor to fix errors or violations of Misplaced Pages policy, nor does it mean reading a user's contribution log; those logs are public for good reason." Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 06:56, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

"Reading" is never a problem. I made no statement that AUM was policy/guideline/whatever... I simply used it as a shortcut to explain my edit. As such, by reading my contribs and then using that information to make that edit was not some good-natured attempt to "fix errors or violations of Misplaced Pages policy". It was harassment. -- Netoholic @ 06:59, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't revert all your edits, or anything close to it. I only revert those few specific instances where your edits don't fit with the community consensus. Along with the disruptive edits, you make many productive ones, and those I leave alone. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 07:01, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Reverting "all" of my edits would be a silly definition of "harassment", since it only takes a few well-placed reverts or comments to cause stress. I'll ask again... do you really want me to post a list of more examples of recent harassment by you? You don't have to answer, and if you don't answer, I'll take that as a sign you acknowledge what I'm saying about you is true, and I'll put it behind us. -- Netoholic @ 07:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Crotalus, Locke, Neto: All three of you need to stay the hell away from each other until you cool off.--Sean Black 07:03, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• Fine. No more edits on this subject tonight. I need to finish the last part of Liberty Head nickel anyway. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 07:05, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• Thank you.--Sean Black 07:46, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

(3 edit conflicts later...)Crotalus, you are verging on wikilawyering, let me explain. First, there's a big difference between tracking a vandals edit and tracking the edits of someone you are having a disagreement with and so you follow him around to other pages where you don't agree with him, that's called wikistalking and per prior Arbcom decision is an offense which can get you banned. Second, I'm well aware of the issue with the image and am addressing it with Neto. There is nothing wrong with a user deleting an image from another user's page that is in violation, when it's undone that's when an admin should be notified, you don't take the law into your own hands and edit war on someone else's user page. Finally, many of your comments towards Neto that I have noticed throughout the day are ad hominem and speak of "imposing views" and "imposing policy" on people. He's not imposing anything by continuing to defend his position, he's doing it appropriately and maybe if you guys spent more time on the issues and less on personal attacks of each other on these articles/templates/etc in question there would be less of a problem. --Wgfinley 07:06, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

You say that Locke Cole should have notified an admin.

Firstly, I disagree with that statement; admins have access to some extra buttons, but we do not possess a higher level of authority when it comes to policy enforcement (beyond the acts of which other users are technically incapable). Netoholic was patently wrong, and his persistent reversions didn't somehow change that. Locke didn't even violate the three-revert rule.

Secondly, Netoholic reverted my removal of the images too. (Though again, I don't see how the admin vs. non-admin issue is relevant.) —David Levy 07:30, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

NOTHING justifies and edit war and that's exactly what he was doing on some other user's page! Look, I've seen lots of user pages that absolutely abhor me but I'm not going to go edit their page because I don't like it. Yes, he shouldn't have the fair use image on his page. How about leaving a message on his talk page asking him to remove it? No, neither you or Locke took the time to ask him on his talk page to remove it. So, yeah, if you came to MY user page and removed stuff and didn't bother to tell me why on talk (edit summaries are not a good method of communication) I would probably revert them. --Wgfinley 07:41, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Netoholic was edit warring too, and he was deliberately violating a policy in the process. And yet, you didn't block him, but you did block a user who violated no policy.

I don't understand why you believe that a talk page message was necessary, given the fact that several flawless explanations were provided via the edit summaries (and dismissed by Netoholic). Nonetheless, Locke Cole did post a detailed policy citation on Netoholic's talk page, and Netoholic "archived" it three minutes later.

And I'm still waiting for you to explain that whole "admin" thing to me. —David Levy 08:02, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Netoholic was not editing someone else's talk page, Netoholic was not following someone else around to other articles and then reverting them, Netoholic didn't cry and whine when I told him the image had to go, he just wanted it explained.

Finally, why would a talk page message asking someone to remove a fair use image from their user page be necessary? I don't know, maybe to be polite? Maybe because he didn't know about the policy? Maybe because that would give him an opportunity to take care of it himself?

Your last comment, I have no idea what you're talking about. --Wgfinley 08:11, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Netoholic was well aware of the policy, given the fact that two different admins removed the fair use images a total of three times last month (and one of them posted two explanatory messages on Netoholic's talk page). I assume that Locke noticed this (and rightfully followed up).

Regarding my "last comment," I'm waiting for you to explain why Locke should have notified an admin. —David Levy 08:39, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Look, it doesn't matter if Jimbo came and removed it, the best way is to politely ask him to remove it and point out why. I did that. He then asked some questions, I then answered them. He now understands and look, the image is gone from the page and I didn't have to do a single revert, amazing! Regarding why an admin because, let me try one more time, there is never an excuse for edit warring! Reverting someone else's user page three times is just plain out of line and uncalled for. No one has said having the image there was right but the proper way to go about rectifying that is not by edit warring, it's by finding out what the issue is and addressing it. That's why I suggested he get an admin because clearly he wasn't getting anywhere and clearly the image is in violation of the fair use guidelines. --Wgfinley 08:50, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

1. Please explain how this exchange (from last month) is less polite or less thorough than yours. You've claimed that Netoholic merely wanted an explanation, but it's clear that he already had received several (and simply ignored them).

2. Why are you condemning Locke's repeated removal of the images (per policy) and excusing Netoholic's repeated reinsertion of the images (in deliberate breach of policy)? It takes more than one user to edit war, and Netoholic was in the wrong.

3. I still don't understand what distinction you're drawing between an admin and a non-admin. Regardless, no fewer than four admins (Cleared as filed, Ilmari Karonen, Dbenbenn and I) attempted to convince Netoholic to comply with the fair use policy. What else (other than removing the images) should have been done? Should one of us have blocked Netoholic (or protected his user page) instead? —David Levy 09:39, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Rd232 warned Netoholic about this issue in October. Then Ral315 in November, SoothingR in December, and then the four you note. Possibly others in between. --CBD _☎ 12:30, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• I agree with David Levy, and have unblocked Locke. I don't buy Neto's accusation of wikistalking, because he frequently jumps to such conclusions far too quickly. Fair use law is important, and we should not block people for following up on that, especially after Jimbo's recent request that we be really careful with legal issues. And if the problem here is edit warring, both parties are equally at fault, so blocking one is not appropriate. >Radiant< 10:24, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Wow. I see the 'merry go round of aggravation' continues. Minor point which I didn't see above... Netoholic has been warned about this 'fair use images' issue several times by many different people over the course of a couple months now. He'll keep them off for a week or so, clear the explanations of why they aren't allowed from his talk page, and then put them back up again. I've seen that pattern repeat at least twice now, just in passing while discussing unrelated template issues with him. Wgfinley, you say that Locke Cole should have 'gotten an admin'. Ok, there are a few admins here. Why is the user who followed policy getting grief and the one who deliberately violated it (repeatedly) not? You were in an existing dispute over WP:AUM in which Netoholic agrees with you and Locke Cole takes the opposite side. You previously threatened Locke Cole with 'more serious action' over that issue. You should not have been the one placing a block on him - especially when he was, without question, acting in accordance with Misplaced Pages's 'fair use' policy. Knowingly using copyrighted images in ways which are not allowed is considered vandalism. Removing such is therefor not even subject to 3RR. The block was inapropriate. --CBD _☎ 11:25, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

The image in question is NOT DISPLAYED on Neto's page ... it is an inline link. Image:Cowbell2.gif this is NOT I repeat NOT a violation of our fair use policy. Only displaying the image is.  ALKIVAR™ 12:38, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Go back in the history. The images were previously displayed directly. There were a couple of reverts after Netoholic started using the links, but probably just because people missed the extra ':' in the diff-link and thought he was restoring the pictures again. Also note that Netoholic previously suppressed display of the images for a while, but then restored them once the latest person telling him it was not allowed had moved on. --CBD _☎ 12:43, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• This appears to be a subtle form of gaming the system - it's bad form to pretend to change in response to reasonable dialogue, and then to turn back to the old way when nobody's watching (and then to claim this hasn't been discussed before). And it reminds me of kindergarten to see people who have just been in a "fight" be all nice and reasonable to the "teacher" in order to make the other guy look bad. >Radiant< 14:58, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• How delightfully duplicitous Radiant -- AGF that Locke just wants to protect the project by removing the image but don't do it when Neto does what I ask him to do and removes the image. --Wgfinley 17:10, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Locke is not the one who was repeatedly asked something in the past, only to comply for a short while and change back when nobody's looking. Neto is, as explained above. >Radiant< 17:27, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Why have you continually claimed that Netoholic complied with your wonderful request? He didn't remove the images. The last person to do so was Locke Cole, and they've been gone since before you intervened. —David Levy 17:57, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

AGF does not involve ignoring the obvious

I find it amusing all the calls to assume good faith on Locke's part and he was only trying to do WP a service by having this terrible violation of policy removed from a user page. Let's see, who's here complaining about how we should AGF for poor olde Locke:

• Locke Cole
• Crotalus horridus
• CBDunkerson

Hmm, let's see, where have I seen this group of editors before.....why, that's right, arguing with Neto over at WP:AUM! What an astounding coincidence that these users are now all so suddenly concerned about fair use images in the user space and they want to start their great liberation efforts and protection of the entire project -- you guessed it, on Neto's page!

See, what I love about AGF is that so many who are willing to invoke it are oblivious to what the last line says:

This guideline does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of evidence to the contrary. Things which can cause the loss of good faith include vandalism, personal attacks, and edit warring.

Any person who has a smidgen of intellectual capability can take one look at the talk page on AUM and see the long history of personal attacks and edit warring going on there that has extended to various other templates, pages, articles, etc. It is clear that these folks all have no love lost for Neto and are present on his user page to bust his balls about something, plain and simple. --Wgfinley 17:08, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• Possibly, but if that is the case, then the edit war on Template:Infobox shows that you are personally involved in this group of editors and its "long history of personal attacks and edit warring". If you assume that these people are out to "get" Neto, it's equally easy to assume that you side with Neto and want to "get back" at these people. Seems to be a classic case of Pot vs. Kettle. >Radiant< 17:27, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

  You should go past more than on day of edit history Radiant, I've been on that page for all of one day. --Wgfinley 02:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

• Poor Netoholic. May I give an explanation for those of us with a "smidgen of intellectual capability": It's called watchlist: if you have something to do with someone like Netoholic you shure want to put his talk page on your watchlist, right? And guess what: this implies that the user page itself is also watched. So what happens if you see something popping up on your radar? You take a look at it. This is a real kindergarten here. Everybody who opposes Neto on WP:AUM seems to be your bad guy. Please note that there are not many people who actually care about WP:AUM beause the average wikipedian silently tries to solve his technical problems on the articles and takes whatever falls out of such battles. So arguing based on who is opposing WP:AUM is quite odd. And please don't talk about intellectual capabilities here. May I cite snowspinner: "Indeed - revert wars are the wrong way. That does not mean, however, that there is not a right side and a wrong side in a given revert war." . Please add me to the list above. --Adrian Buehlmann 17:39, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I find it amusing all the calls to assume good faith on Locke's part and he was only trying to do WP a service by having this terrible violation of policy removed from a user page. Let's see, who's here complaining about how we should AGF for poor olde Locke...

Am I also in on the conspiracy?

What an astounding coincidence that these users are now all so suddenly concerned about fair use images in the user space and they want to start their great liberation efforts and protection of the entire project -- you guessed it, on Neto's page!

So...Cleared as filed and Dbenbenn are involved in the conspiracy as well?

See, what I love about AGF is that so many who are willing to invoke it are oblivious to what the last line says:

This guideline does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of evidence to the contrary. Things which can cause the loss of good faith include vandalism, personal attacks, and edit warring.

Any person who has a smidgen of intellectual capability can take one look at the talk page on AUM and see the long history of personal attacks and edit warring going on there that has extended to various other templates, pages, articles, etc. It is clear that these folks all have no love lost for Neto and are present on his user page to bust his balls about something, plain and simple.

Which editor, other than someone with whom Netoholic has recently interacted elsewhere, do you expect to notice the problem with his user page? Given the fact that Netoholic has been deliberately violating policy (despite the intervention of multiple users), why shouldn't he be taken to task? Why, in the presence of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, do you continue to assume good faith on the part of Netoholic? —David Levy 17:57, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I propose to have cup of tea together (or a beer, whatever you like) and take a look at Neto's new picture :-). Let's close this case now. --Adrian Buehlmann 18:09, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Wgfinley, as noted above, I have been aware of these off and on 'fair use' violations by Netoholic for months now... because every time I post something on his talk page someone new is there warning him about it. I mentioned it to Netoholic once a few weeks ago and that was all. I haven't been 'revert warring' on his user page, Template:Infobox, or WP:AUM as claimed and I am not out to 'get' Netoholic here. My involvement in this discussion was to oppose abuse of powers by you. You were in a revert war with Locke Cole on Template:Infobox the same day as your 'impartial' block of him. You reverted that page to your preferred version and protected it - in blatant violation of policy. You threatened people with admin action for disagreeing with you on that page - again against policy. And then you blocked Locke Cole for removing deliberate violations of 'fair use' policy which Netoholic has been repeating since at least October. Your insistence on extending the block to 48 hours, and continuing that duration even after your stated reason for doing so (a supposed prior block on Locke Cole the same day) was proven to be false, shows just how biased your actions have been in this regards. You should never block someone with whom you are in dispute. Least wise when you've been 'breaking the rules' and they were following them. 'Fair use' images in user space are supposed to be removed... by everyone. At most you should have suggested Locke Cole to get someone else to do it... though even that would be a stretch given the 7+ people who had done so previously. --CBD _☎ 18:50, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Radiant! protected Template:Infobox, not Wgfinley. Forgetting about my user page for a moment, the 3 other occasions I posted at the very top of this section demonstrate that Locke Cole has been harassing me across several pages which he's never edited before, and therefore would not likely have on how Watchlist. He's been watching my contribs, and been using that information to combat me maliciously. That is what he was blocked for. It's also not the first time, because he did it to User:Pigsonthewing... he even edit warred on Pigsonthewing's talk page. It's a repeating pattern, and you should probably separate yourself from it. -- Netoholic @ 23:04, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

2 of the 3 links you provided I found out about via posts that were made to pages I have watchlisted. Only one of those (Template:Ship table) involved looking at your contribs, and that wasn't "wikistalking". (You must have a very wide view of what you consider "wikistalking"– I consider it being disruptive; as it was never my intent to be disruptive, merely corrective, it doesn't seem to me to be wikistalking at all). In the case of Template:Ship table, you were still pushing a template fork (Template:Infobox Ship) that was (and still is) broken for the disabled (hiddenStructure does not work correctly with certain screen readers, and does not work with certain browsers (notably Lynx)).

And for what it's worth, I intend to continue going through your contribs to undo the damage you've done. Again, that's not disruptive, that's corrective. Somebody has to do it, just as when a vandal is identified, someone has to go trawling through that persons contribs and undo the damage that was done (yes, I am comparing you to a vandal; I believe the comparison fits). —Locke Cole • t • c 00:08, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

• Guys, please take your dispute to RFC. >Radiant< 01:45, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd like Locke Cole to be re-blocked for not only confirming that he's stalking my edits, but comparing me to a vandal and threatening to continue and even escalate his stalking habits. -- Netoholic @ 04:09, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Is there a "Stalk Netoholic" button of which I'm unaware? Mine just says "User contributions," and I'm fairly certain that the developers expected people to use it. —David Levy 04:42, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

NPA HeadleyDown

I was asked to monitor for personal attacks on the NLP article, and have left several warnings on his talk page. Now (as a result of the warnings) he's made one against me, and I feel it would be questionable for me to block him myself. Please see User talk:HeadleyDown, NPA section, and final post in NLP section here. Any wisdom, insight or help would be much appreciated. Thanks - KillerChihuahua 11:10, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

HeadleyDown (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) blocked 24h. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / 12:42, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Michael Reiter (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log)

I recently observed this user uploading an image previously deleted as a copyvio. I deleted it since it has already been through the copyvio process. This user has a habit of uploading copyvios and then claiming they are PD or fair use; see talk for a list of examples. I believe that substantially all of his image contribs should be deleted out of hand unless there is clear evidence that they comply with copyright law. I have tried to reason with this user in the past and he is difficult to work with. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 17:20, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Bank of Misplaced Pages again?

See Bank of Faith (talk · contribs) - would I be correct in assuming this user is acting in a similar way to Bank of Misplaced Pages (talk · contribs) back in 2005? What was the nature of Bank of Misplaced Pages's block, and should this user be treated in the same way? -- Francs2000 18:42, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Addendum - I'm assuming good faith here, it could be a sockpuppet of course... -- Francs2000 18:44, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I suggest a block. Bank of Misplaced Pages was a sock of user:Iasson. One of Iasson's other sockpuppets was called Faethon. "Bank of Faith"'s user page makes reference to this by linking to Faethon. That, combined with the similarly confused, semi-nonsensical writing style maes this an Iasson sock beyond any reasonable doubt. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 19:33, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Blocked; timer reset. Good job catching that. — Knowledge Seeker দ 20:05, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Could you please increase Lir's counter too? I am so bored to ask Raul654 whether he has recipes for low-calorie chocolate cakes.... :P FaethonCounterIncrease 02:27, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Disturbing edit

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Britney_Spears&diff=prev&oldid=38180929 - has the user been blocked?? --Sunfazer (talk) 19:33, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Er, it's just a little silliness. Libellous, maybe, under certain circumstances. But I'm not too worried, personally.--Sean Black 19:45, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Speedy deletions

Please can an admin delete the CFD's and speedy deletions listed at: http://en.wikipedia.org/Category:Sunfazer

I no longer need these. You can find them in the description in the article above.

--Sunfazer (talk) 21:20, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Here is the full list: This category has been made to hold categories made by User:Sunfazer
CFD articles: Category:User:Sunfazer/Suspected sockpuppets
Category:User:Sunfazer/Suspected sockpuppets (testing)
Category:User:Sunfazer/Suspected sockpuppets of Sunbulker
Category:User:Sunfazer/Suspected sockpuppets of fictitious user Sunbulker
Category:User:Sunfazer:Suspected sockpuppets
Category:User:Sunfazer:Suspected sockpuppets of fictitious user Sunbulker
listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/Category:Sunfazer

and speedy deletions are contained within them, which are:

   * User:Sunbulkerrunning1
   * User:Sunbulkerrunning2

Please speedily delete them! --Sunfazer (talk) 21:23, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Reneec

Reneec (talk · contribs) has been (1) edit warring in the Memphis, Tennessee article about the inclusion of a blurb on a seemingly non-notable musician (and his picture), first in the intro, and now in the "arts" section, of the article, (2) has altered other editors' comments on talk pages (, and (3) has made personal attacks (or at least made uncivil comments) about three editors (, & ). Reneec is adamant about inclusion of David Saks in the Memphis article, despite growing consensus on the article's talk page that perhaps he's not even notable enough to have an article on Misplaced Pages. - Jersyko talk 21:20, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• Though this deletion was on Reneec's own talk page, since the comments removed were merely exhorting Reneec to stop making personal attacks and provide verification of the David Saks information, I wanted to post notice here as this might demonstrate a complete lack of interest in compromise or following Misplaced Pages policy on the user's part. - Jersyko talk 21:40, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Reneec (talk · contribs) is also engaging in blanking his/her own talk page. RadioKirk talk to me 21:52, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

User has broken the three revert rule on Memphis, Tennessee - at least three reverts in the past 24 hours to replace the disputed picture of Mr. Saks, and at least one to replace text regarding how many of Mr. Saks's songs are 'official songs' of Memphis. There have also been two reverts, one for the picture and one for the text, by IP addresses belonging to the same ISP, XO Communications. . As neither IP has had any other edits in the past two months, these seem suspicious.

Reneec has even reverted a user who disambiguated several links on David Saks. S/he does not seem at all willing to even attempt to work on reaching consensus on these articles. -- Vary | Talk 22:05, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• Reneec just made this edit to this page. I would appreciate it if someone else agreed that it is merely a personal attack and removed it. P.S.: not that it really matters, but I am from Memphis. - Jersyko talk 22:26, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• I have added a totallydisputed tag to the David Saks article, as the language used in this article is violative of NPOV on its face, and the factual accuracy is disputed on the Memphis talk page. Reneec has removed the tag twice. - Jersyko talk 20:06, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
  • . . . and now has vandlized my comment on the talk page of the same article. - Jersyko talk 20:10, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
    • . . . and has rebuffed good faith attempts by more than one editor to attempt to get a source for claims regarding Saks here. - Jersyko talk 20:27, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

• Reneec has posted this on my talk page. It seems that we will not get that elusive source from him/her and that he/she has no interest in providing one. Thus, all we are left with is unsourced information, which is probably best termed a vanity article at this point, and incivility/vandalism from Reneec. Though I am not an administrator, I see no reason why a block should not be instituted at this point. - Jersyko talk 22:05, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

• I posted a checkuser request regarding this Afd and Reneec. As backlogged as that page is, though, I wonder if someone would mind taking a quick look? The relevant users are Reneec and 70.248.228.85. Thanks. - Jersyko talk 14:55, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

User: Jersyko

User Jersyko is riddled with a compulsive editing disorder, in addition to a pompous dereliction to discredit Mr.Saks. This user (Jersyko) is not aware of the work of Mr.Saks, nor his accomplishments as a musician. As I am new to Misplaced Pages, I hope that the actions and pedantic whistleblowing of this user are not indicative of the protocols afforded courteous participation insuring the rest of the community unabashed by his (Jersyko) participation. Talk:Reneec

• Reneec is right on one point, I most definitely have a "compulsive editing disorder", two actually, editcountitis and addiction to Misplaced Pages (197 automated). - Jersyko talk 22:50, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• Document your contention, and the edit war will end immediately. User:Zoe| 23:33, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Argument Sandbox

The talk page for Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy repeatedly gets bogged down with debate and discussion about the underlying issues, rather than the relevant matter of article content. Consequently, I've created Talk:Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy/Arguments and placed a notice at the top of the main Talk page asking to restrict all discussion of underlying issues to that page. That way, people can argue on the Arguments page, and hopefully useful discussion can take place on Talk. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 00:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Sigh. We shouldn't be encouraging people to treat Misplaced Pages like a message board.--Sean Black 01:27, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that's specifically telling people to use Misplaced Pages as a message board. I quite frequently will create a sub-page of my own user page to mock up a page I'm editing (this is generally during a rewrite or substantial copyedit). While I'm typically only involving myself, at least a few times, I've posted a link to my "scratch pad" on a talk page for an article in the main namespace. I think this is common practice, as I got the idea from somebody else. Anyways, giving people a space to mock up an article or to "hash out" differences is A Good Thing. It hopefully will prevent people from having "revert wars" on the main article. I think it provides an alternative to "harmful" behavior (eg revert wars). What was your take on it? Avriette 01:33, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

We shouldn't bother with discussing it anywhere. Just remove it with the edit summary, "Rm- off topic poltical/religous/social discussion."--Sean Black 02:31, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

It's certainly wrong to call it a Sandbox, which implies it can be deleted at any time. User:Zoe| 02:07, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I have some sympathy for the idea that it should be. Jkelly 04:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I strongly suggest that people who want to argue about this be redirected to the POV wiki. This is the kind of thing that the POV wiki was created for. It is open to arguments of all kinds, and can really help remove the clutter from Misplaced Pages and its Recent Changes page. Danny 04:26, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Being a vandal patroller as well as a Protection patroller, I wish they'd just take the darn thing off of the main page so we can SP it. --Woohookitty 06:27, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

We should have a template for this to stick on talk pages. It'll be a great help when I deal with POV pushing Malaysian editors. Johnleemk | Talk 06:35, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

For those interested, I've MfD'd this talk page. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 16:42, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

User:New newness

New newness (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) registered in January and made enough low-level edits to qualify for the ability to move articles, then did a three-round move of User:Jason Gastrich and User talk:Jason Gastrich requiring deletions to fix the moves since you can't rollback across double moves. I've blocked them indefinitely and have fixed the moves. User:Zoe| 02:04, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

The user also created a bunch of nonsense redirects. (e.g., AEU to Courtney Mitchell, AAX to Reflecting Skin, etc.) — TheKMan 02:10, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Yep. Their first edit was vandalism, their second was to their User page, their third was to create an article which is currently on AfD, and all the rest were nonsense redirects until they got into move vandalism mode. User:Zoe| 02:20, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

The sound you can hear is me biting my tongue... - Just zis  Guy, you know? / 20:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Simon Says

You've had your fun with me, now I'm going to have my fun with you. I have placed 30 nihlartikles throughout wikipedia, and your job is to find them. Be careful, over half of them have graphics and look very unassuming.

Simon says find the nihlartikles and revert them. - MilkMan

Okay, we will. Thanks for letting us know in advance, it's much appreciated!--Sean Black 06:36, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

range block

I have had to implement a 5 minute range block on 212.138.47.0/30 because of the huge amount of vandalism coming through those addresses. The block includes the state run proxies for the country of Saudi Arabia through which all their traffic is filtered thus the reason why the block is only 5 minutes. Jtkiefer ---- 06:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Questionable image

I want to get everyone else's opinion on this image, Image:Dylan jams with campbell.jpg. It was deleted once for being a orphaned fair use image/possible copyvio, I deleted once before for it being recreation of deleted content, but it has been uploaded again. The source of the photo, for those using AGF, is from a friend of a Wikipedian. But, from reading the image license, it says it is "a non-commercial publication." Can someone look at it please? Thanks. User:Zscout370 06:44, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Speedied again as a recreated copyvio. Jtkiefer ---- 06:48, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Are we allowed to {{deletedpage}} the image, so it cannot be uploaded under that same name? User:Zscout370 06:49, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I have also blocked User:JDG for 24 hours for blatantly violating Misplaced Pages's copyright rules, he's been warned several times and has stated:

"I will be uploading this image again. It is 100% Fair Use (the source is an acquaintance of mine) and I won't have a posse of paranoiacs interfering... Zach, I've been contributing to Misplaced Pages approximately 4x longer than you, so your threat to "make sure stay on Misplaced Pages will be very, very short" is as amusing as it is idle. Warning: don't push me. JDG 03:57, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

which besides being a personal attack states that he plans on repeatedly violating Misplaced Pages's rules on copyrights which is something even Jimbo Wales has stated is grounds for an immediate indefinite block though I'd like wider feedback before implementing one. Jtkiefer ---- 06:52, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Update: As per the ruling from Jimbo that we are supposed to take a hardline on blatant copyright violation and ignoration of our copyright rules and regulations I have extended to an indefinite block. Jtkiefer ---- 06:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

One more comment, yes, I did say that if the user uploaded the image again, I would have made his stay at WP short. Was it out of line: maybe, but with the block above, I guess Jimbo meant it. User:Zscout370 06:57, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that was out of line since you should never threaten other users like that, that being said he was clearly warned on the image's talk page that the image did not qualify as fair use and as such would be deleted, he was also warned not to repeatedly re-upload the image which he continued to do. Jtkiefer ---- 07:03, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I also wish to note that extra discussion is taking place at http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:JDG#blocked. User:Zscout370 07:08, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I've reduced this block to one week. We shouldn't be blocking good contributors because they upload one potential copyvio.--Sean Black 07:25, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

The issue wasn't one potential copyvio, the issue was blatantly re-uploading a copyvio when told not to and after having policies to that effect explained to him as well as him blatantly stating (see quote above) that he would entirely ignore policy, and his blatant incivility towards me on his talk page after being blocked. Jtkiefer ---- 07:30, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Sidenote: I issued an apology to the blocked user about my conduct with him. User:Zscout370 07:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

If the issue was not the copyvio, but the issues surrounding it, then I'd say that he deserves, oh, a week. ;)--Sean Black 07:47, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

The above makes no sense to me. The user was blocked because they stated (and demonstrated) that they were determined to continually re-upload an unfree image without providing source or copyright status. Blocks are not punitive, so once the user agreed to abide by image use policy, they should be immediately unblocked. Blocking for a week sends the message that they are being punished for an arbitrary length of time for being a jerk. That's not our job; the behaviour problems should go to WP:RFAR whereas the "protect the project" admin block should stay in place exactly as long as that protection is needed. Jkelly 19:54, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

It appears he has gone through with his statement that he's leaving the project though hopefully he'll take me up on my suggestion that he use this only as a wikibreak and that he come back with a new outlook on things when the block is over. Jtkiefer ---- 08:23, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Indefinite blocks are an ArbCom matter. We're getting way to cavalier with these. If there is no proven case against a user, no matter how obnoxious, RFar. We do indefinite blocks for user names that are obviously inappropriate and for sockpuppets that are vandalizing and for vandalism-only accounts. Other than that.... I know this has been taken care of now, but I'd like to urge folks to watch out for the temptation to block indefinitely. Geogre 16:53, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Capital Punishment - request for semi-protection

Article Capital Punishment is vandalised quite often; current problem with an anonymous IP user (71.107.80.90), quite knowledgable but definitely heavily pro-death penalty who runs through the article subtly (and unsubtly) deleting anti-death penalty arguments or shifting the emphasis. Caravaca 07:57, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages:Requests for page protection, but not advisable to be used for content disputes unless it is frequent simple vandalism. - Mailer Diablo 11:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Request for intervention or semi-protection

At Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/65.182.172.x, there is an attempt to resolve an ongoing dispute with an anonymous user. An integral component of the disagreement is that the anonymous user is posting people's personal information at[REDACTED] and obfuscating their discussions to intimidate them and is engaging in repeated Ad Hominem Attacks. Could someone please look and advise - you will have to look in the history of the page most likely to make heads or tails of the situation. Thanks. Cyberdenizen 08:08, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Overnight the page was edited so severely and the formatting intentionally destroyed by the anonymous user, to the point of what I would consider vandalism. This is what the RfC looked like before he mangled it and this is what it looks like now. Since I am an involved party, I don't want to just revert away his edits, and I also don't know if I should move his new 50 or so unsigned edits to the already defined format of the RfC - he has placed his rebuttals at the top of the page and interspersed comments and rebuttals throughout the page to the point of unreadability. If anyone reads here, would you please comment or advise me on what I should do? This is /was obviously an attempt to resolve a dispute. Cyberdenizen 15:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Being uncertain what is appropriate in this instance, I have moved all of his edits to the 'Response' section. Again, any comment or advice would be most appreciated.-Cyberdenizen 18:10, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I blocked one of the IPs for a month after it was reported on the personal attack intervention board. If further conduct of the same nature comes from that range, let me know and I'll block. Essjay 15:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Under the Plotinus "Plotinus and the gnostics" bio a group of posters have insisted on reverting from comments published about Plotinus from scholarly works to POV. They have now not only refused to answer questions. But after refusing to clarify their theories through accepted scholars'works now revert back to opinion rather then accepting posted comments by a renowned scholar. Please interven. Opinion and theory have no place being presented as history here on wikipedia.

LoveMonkey 20:23, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Stub problem

Help is needed at Template:US-journalist-stub, which is now placing the bio of a woman named Madeline on every journalist's article who uses the stub. I don't have time to untangle it myself, so help would be appreciated. Elonka 16:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. Just needed to revert the template to the last good version. · Katefan0/poll 16:46, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Can't get on wikipedia

I posted this at the Help Desk and no one responded, so I'm putting it here. I'm having a rather strange problem. English Misplaced Pages seems to be blocked on my computer. I can't access it on any browser, including IE, firefox, and Opera (not that I can't edit Misplaced Pages, I can't even view the site at all, nor can I link to it from a google search). Firefox gives an error message saying that it can't establish a connection to the server. I can access any other website, including any other language wikipedia, but I can't get to English wikipedia. I'm writing from a public computer right now. No one else on the network in my dorm is blocked from Misplaced Pages, so I find this very strange. can anyone offer any help, or any possible reason why this could have happened? I'm sort of clueless right now, wondering if my computer got hacked by somebody who i blocked on[REDACTED] or something? I don't know, please help if you can. Thanks, --Alhutch 16:57, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

can you acess other sites with firefox?Geni 17:15, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Any chance someone with physical access to your computer is pulling a prank on you? Possibly by adding a line to you HOSTS file or similar, redirecting en.wikipedia.org to a bad IP? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:24, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I can access any other site with firefox. I don't think the people who have physical access to my computer are smart enough to do something like that. If they did, how would I fix that?--Alhutch 20:31, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Problem solved.--Alhutch 22:21, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

LOL

The previous unsigned comment is by 64.12.116.65, previously blocked for disruption on this page. RadioKirk talk to me 18:07, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

LOL, all AOL users who edit the same page have the same ip

Nice try, 64.12.116.65; anyone at that IP who is editing this page would be taking part in the disruption, would they not? RadioKirk talk to me 19:15, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

That doesn't make any sense, AOL uses shared ip ranges, they change from page to page, anyone who edits the same page using AOL has the same ip, if you're confused, ask someone who is smarter than you, they'll explain it--64.12.116.65 19:38, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

What? do you think only one(1) AOL user has ever edited this page in the entire history of wikipedia?--64.12.116.65 19:41, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

You sure seem rather defensive about this... — TheKMan 19:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

No, just annoyed, everywhere I go, people pull up unrelated things from my ip history and blame them on me, there should be a template:AOL for dummies to help people understand this without so much fuss--64.12.116.65 19:45, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Let me attempt to explain this in a manner you can understand. You speak of IP ranges, which is a smokescreen. I refer to a specific IP, and the propensity of people from that specific IP who make edits to this specific page. The likelihood of multiple users (with no accounts) from the same IP who are aware of this page (or who have the wherewithal to check the IP's user history and go from there) is so small, it could probably be narrowed to one or two people. Meantime, yes, you are oddly defensive... RadioKirk talk to me 20:04, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

You really don't seem to understand, all AOL users in the same range who edit the same page, at any time in the history of the planet earth, all have the same IP, as long as they're on the same page... say we're both using AOL, I edit a page, then you do... we would have the same IP, but still be different people--152.163.100.65 20:27, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

10 years on the 'net, this is the first time I've heard of any such thing. So, 64.12.116.65, was this edit yours? RadioKirk talk to me 20:40, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

You are welcome to create an account. Takes about 30 seconds, and most of that is spent deciding your username and password. Much less annoying to do than getting bugged for being on a shared IP. — TheKMan 19:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Wheel-warring

The paedophilia template has been the source of a huge debate at WP:AN and a wheel war over the template, even though a TfD for it is already running. He is the wheel-war log . This is getting out of hand.Voice of All 18:18, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

It's hardly a wheel war. Some people think it should be deleted as a troll template, others disagree. Who's to say which party is right? If it's a troll template, then obviously it should be deleted without mercy, no matter how many times it's created. This kind of disagreement is inevitable as the community grows and administrative standards diverge. --Tony Sidaway 02:48, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but if you are an admin, and your admin action was reverted three times by three different people, that is a sure sign that you better seek other ways of making your point. :) Hopefully User:Ashibaka got it.

That regardless of who is in the right or in the wrong. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 03:12, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

"Obviously it should be deleted without mercy, no matter how many times it's created." I strongly disagree with this statement, applied to anything. Nothing trumps civility, and civility means engaging with other editors in discussion instead of reverting them. It means leaving Misplaced Pages in The Wrong Version while pursuing respectful dialogue. Reverting repeatedly without constantly attempting to discuss and build consensus is always wrong. -GTBacchus 03:13, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Wrong. Numerous things "trump" civility, violations of law to begin with. Civility takes a distant second place to protecting Misplaced Pages. ➥the Epopt 03:51, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I think he means nothing excuses incivility. I fail to imagine a scenario where incivility would be good for the encyclopedia. Dmcdevit·t 04:13, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

But GTBacchus is defining reverting others instead of engaging in discussion as incivil (particularly in regards to deleting things, I think). Incivility, defined in that manner, could be good for the encyclopedia if, for example, it meant ridding a page of clear libel quickly, no? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:20, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Protecting the encyclopedia need never "trump" civility. There is no case in which it is necessary to be uncivil in order to protect the encyclopedia. If someone is adding illegal content, then you still should address that person via their talk page each time you revert them. Even then, doing it more than twice should immediately feel fatuous and silly. At that point, it's appropriate to get more Wikipedians involved. Just reverting is never the right way to go about things. This applies to deletions, content disputes, whatever. The main problem with just reverting is that it doesn't work. After two reverts (with no discussion), the problem is exactly as it was before two reverts. That's unproductive; don't do it. And making remarks in the edit summaries is no substitute for discussion. Why don't admins hold themselves to a higher standard of civility, and not the lowest that's technically within process. -GTBacchus 04:39, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

From WP:RFC, an example of the attitude I'm suggesting: "Don't forget to follow Wikiquette. Wikiquette is more important in resolving a dispute, not less." Why not try to live that way? -GTBacchus 04:41, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Look, I mostly agree with you in the current case, but I caution you that your use of absolutes ("Reverting repeatedly without constantly attempting to discuss and build consensus is always wrong", "Just reverting is never the right way to go about things") is silly. If someone is defacing today's featured article with a large number of penis images, "just reverting" is perfectly appropriate for a while (though eventually a block becomes necessary). There's a fuzzy line somewhere where it becomes inappropriate, but things are not black or white and talking as if they are does nothing to further the conversation. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:51, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, ok, I see where you're coming from, and every absolute claim has exceptions. Sometimes though, it's a very good idea to take an adage as non-negotiable. I'm attempting to describe an ideal, which, if all editors held themselves to it, would raise the bar around here considerably, regarding both how we treat each other and the quality of encyclopedia we end up with. An ideal has to be couched in terms of absolutes. In your example, by the way, it would be acceptable to warn the penis-image vandal once, and block them on the second offense. Only two reverts are necessary in that scenario, and communication takes place in between them. -GTBacchus 05:01, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

By Tony's reasoning I could revert war on any article and the only defense I would need is that I was right. It wouldn't even be a revert war. This is the exact same reasoning that got at least one editor severely restricted by Arbcom. I understand things change when you have pull, but this is ridiculous. — Phil Welch 03:19, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

By Tony's reasoning there was no wheel war, despite 3 reversion. Maybe that is not unusual for him, but most of the time that is considered wheel warring. I reverted a block once and people called it "wheel-warring" and said that "wheel-warring admins should be blocked"...looks like reason and consistancy have gone way out the window here.Voice of All 04:40, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Phil, if you were reverting vandalism you could revert it until the cows come home with my blessing. We do allow reversion of damage to Misplaced Pages, and a template created avowedly for the purpose of trolling may well be classed as damage to Misplaced Pages. Rather than condemn those who deleted and those who undeleted, I'd like to look at the situation and see what we can learn from it. --Tony Sidaway 04:07, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, Ashibaka's repeated restorations, at least, were a clear case of wheel warring. And it is not okay. This whole fiasco was shameful, and quite avoidable. Dmcdevit·t 04:13, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Tony, there is always the possiblity that your judgement may have been wrong, that you misread the situation, or that there exists an alternative explanation for the facts you see. Deleting or undeleting a certain template/article/category till the "cows come home" is not acceptable, in any circumstances. Get to talk to the other admin, seek a third opinion, do something except a show of force of who will give up first. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 04:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Just in case anyone missed it... 05:40, 6 February 2006 Jimbo Wales blocked "Joeyramoney (contribs)" with an expiry time of 1 week (I desysopped karmafist for reverting my block -- no more wheel warring) . Assuming that this is going to be spread around to all and sundry, I cannot help but think it's a good thing. - brenneman 06:19, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, though technically I reblocked first (a few seconds before Jimbo). Wow, two desysopings in one day...Jimbo must really be pissed.Voice of All 06:21, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

the wheel warring had to end at some point. maybe people will finally get the message.--Alhutch 06:28, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually he has desysopped five so far. See TacoDeposit 07:00, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

indeed: Borghunter, Carnildo, El C, Karmafist, and Ashibaka have been desysopped.--Alhutch 07:03, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Allies (band)

Walter Görlitz insists on adding the claim that the Sweet Comfort Band is "seminal", but refuses to offer any evidence for this. His response to my requests for references or sources (aside from merely reinstating the word) has been to restate the claim, to say (in an edit summary) that many bands have said that they were influenced by Sweet Comfort Band, though he is unable or refuses to name any of them, and to tell me that I shouldn't be editing the article as I'm ignorant. His messages on my Talk page ("since you don't know anything about the subject, I suggest that you stay out of it", "You seem to have your fingers in a lot of pies, but don't seem to have grown any of the fruit. This is one pie I'd like you to refrain from ruining"), and edit summaries ("an attempt to satisfy Mel Etitis--the man with too much time on his hands and no knowledge of CCM") have become more and more insulting. Could someone else explain to him that the onus is on him to justify the claim, not on me to disprove it? I'm getting nowehere. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 19:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I left a lengthy note. Jkelly 19:36, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

My last attempt to explain anything ended in tears. Would it be appropriate to call this a really severe case of WP:OWN? Allies (band) also led him to war over another band ("The Allies"), because they apparently stole the name before he could write an article about the Allies. When your ownership of an article leads you to try to take out other articles as well, it's probably gone Too Far. fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 03:47, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Brokeback Mountain

Brokeback Mountain is semi-protected after a few waves of vandalism from several anons with IP's in the same range. I'm wondering if this is from one individual using multiple computers in a school. is there a way to investigate where the range of IP addresses originates? -- Samuel Wantman 19:47, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

ARIN is a good way of determining ownership of an IP address. — TheKMan 19:52, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

It appears the IPs in question come from Bell Canada. — TheKMan 19:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Fahamli Ghi

Fahamli keeps recreating Danielle Cunio, which I have deleted four times. I suspect that Fahamli is a sockpuppet of User:Danielle Cunio, who herself is a sockpuppet of the North Carolina vandal. What should I do? Thanks. --M@thwiz2020 21:29, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I've put the {{deletedpage}} tag on it and protected i. User:Zoe| 23:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Sam Sloan

User left this edit on my talk page, which seems to me to be personal attack, given that it contains the sentence "You are just a crackpot."

To give some background, this user is angry at me because I removed some uncited material and asked to reinsert only with a citation. The user responded with this comment calling me a "menace to wikipidea" and a "non-discriminating vandal. He deletes content randomly...If allowed to continue, soon there will be nothing left in Misplaced Pages." This is a clear violation of WP:AGF.

It would also be also helpful if an admin explained to him that content needs to be accompanied by citations. He keeps accusing me of being a "Misplaced Pages policeman" for insisting that content be cited. --Pierremenard 22:25, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Know-It-All is a sockpuppet of Ruy Lopez

Ruy Lopez (talk · contribs) has come back as Mr. Know-It-All (talk · contribs) to evade ArbCom action. I've blocked the sockpuppet indefinitely. However, keep an eye around Ruy Lopez's usual haunts for further hot sock action - David Gerard 23:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Legal threats

Zothip (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) has made legal threats against Antaeus Feldspar (talk • contribs • Feldspar page moves • block user • Feldspar block log) in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Walter Donald Kring, PHD. Stifle 02:04, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Indefinitely blocked as per WP:LEGAL. User:Zoe| 02:16, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

MilkMan threats

Lactose_Oracle (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has warned that there's going to be some sort of POV-pushing / brute-force attack on Misplaced Pages within 72 hours. Just keep an eye out for this. Titoxd 04:07, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Conrad-14 year old socialist

Conrad-14_year_old_socialist (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) Some more admins might want to keep an eye on this one. He self-identifies on his userpage as a "part-time Misplaced Pages vandal", for one thing. Has made no contributions to the article namespace, and has already been blocked once for personal attacks. -GTBacchus 04:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

• I think a block here would be less problematic than some others proposed (and done!) today for two reasons. First of all, we shouldn't have self-admitted vandals on Misplaced Pages. He should be given the option of either disclaiming his vandalhood and removing that message from his userpage, or being blocked until he does. Secondly, our purpose is to create an encyclopedia. I think people should have a lot of leeway in userspace to keep them happy and productive, just like I think that workers should be able to put pictures or comic strips up on their cubicles if they want to (and managers who try to stop this behavior generally find out that such restrictions aren't such a great idea due to their effects on morale and productivity). But this presupposes contributions to the encyclopedia, and so far there are none. This smacks of simply using Misplaced Pages as a homepage provider, which it is not. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 05:04, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

• This would appear to be a reincarnation of Conrad-14 year old boy (talk · contribs).-gadfium 05:38, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I have left a message here, and hopefully the editor will remove the offending comment of his/her own volition. If it is still there after, say, 24 hrs, then perhaps a short block, followed by increasing blocks for further non-compliance may be appropriate. Hamster Sandwich 05:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I would like to say that he left some anonying comments on my talk page in reply to a small comment on his talk about whether it is "hail Lenin" (as in chunks of ice falling down on poor old Lenin) or "heil Lenin" as is honour Lenin or Greetings Lenin. Chooserr 05:43, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

What? "Hail" is English, "heil" is German. FreplySpang (talk) 05:47, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

One thing's clear: Lenin and Lenon are both no longer hale. Geogre 11:47, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Copyvio?

I do not pretend to know the copyright laws that we abide by here, but this seems to be a possible violation. 151.199.14.213 05:41, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I've marked this for speedy deletion as a blatant copy/paste from NYT. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 05:44, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

speedied.--Alhutch 05:45, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi folks - that was 3 paragraphs, out of about a dozen or so, which I pasted to store in my user space for an upcoming edit. I didn't mean to violate copyright - does an excerpt like that count as a copyvio? Thanks and sorry for the inconvenience! -- User:RyanFreisling @ 06:22, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Ryan...glad to see a pretty face in such ugly situations as of late. You should fix it up first (somewhat) and then re-submit. No one should delete it then. Perhaps consider using the inuse template. Thanks.Voice of All 06:26, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Usage of an excerpt of copyrighted material would be permitted under fair use, but that would only be permitted in the article namespace. Making slight modifications to the text really isn't adequate to avoid a copyright violation. It might be a better idea to store the NYT article on your hard drive (I assume you're using it only as a source anyway). — TheKMan 06:40, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Well I mean that she should trim/add and modify and paraphrase before putting it in here...even if much of the topics are the same.Voice of All 06:44, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I sort of acted in haste, didn't mean to imply any bad faith on RyanFreisling's part.--Alhutch 06:43, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

No worries, folks - thanks to everyone :) -- User:RyanFreisling @ 13:39, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Protection images (Padlock)

Our various "protected" templates have a padlock image on them. Recently, it was discovered that this was apparently uploaded under false pretenses and may be a copyvio. See User talk:Guanaco and User talk:Locke Cole for details on this. I pointed out that a free SVG image was available on OpenClipArt.org, and this was promptly uploaded as Image:Padlock.svg. Since the protection templates are themselves protected, we need an admin to go through and replace these uses. I'd do it myself, but I am not an administrator. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 06:37, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I tried to do most of them already. If there was one I didn't catch, change it. Titoxd 07:06, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Phyrex is a sock of Antistatist

Phyrex (talk · contribs) is a sock of Antistatist (talk · contribs), being used for nothing but stoking the userbox wars. Check the contribs. I have to get to work now, but could someone please block Phyrex indefinitely, Antistatist 48 hours for being an inflammatory sockpuppeting dick and delete the rubbish created by Phyrex. Thanks - David Gerard 07:17, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

phyrex is already indef blocked by Jimbo. see here.--Alhutch 07:19, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Also has nothing on their contribution page, so I assume all of their edits were already deleted.--Alhutch 07:20, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Jimbo himself nuked them out, as he said on his talk page. Titoxd 07:24, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo blocked Phyrex indefinitely for trolling:

• 04:31, 6 February 2006 Jimbo Wales blocked "Phyrex (contribs)" with an expiry time of indefinite (blatant trolling)

It follows that Antistatist should be blocked indefinitely. --08:05, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

After discussion with Tony Sidaway I've blocked Antistatist (talk · contribs · logs) indefinitely, per the general conventions that policy applies to people, not just accounts. --MarkSweep (call me collect) 08:09, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

The Cunctator's attacking userbox

I've removed three times a very aggressive userbox from Cunctator's userpage: on the grounds that it goes against civility pillar. The fact that one dislike some wikipedians does not justify namecalling. Requesting politely to stop has been fruitless, so I'm requesting help on enforcing policy and guidance for further channels of action if this continues. -- ( drini's page ☎ ) 07:26, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah that subst template meets the new CSD Template #1 requirements by Jimbo. It is nonsense and should be removed on sight. People who put that kind of stuff up should be warned and blocked if they revert war.Voice of All 07:37, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

It's not really a template, but a modification on a substed template. So there's nothing to speedy, nonetheless, it's a very incivil and inflammatory userbox -- ( drini's page ☎ ) 07:43, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

LOL, it's true, CVU is fascism/totalitarianism. Alias Wooga 07:46, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's not the problem though. Anyone is entitled to disagree or dislike. It's the uncivil namecallign that it's uncalled for. -- ( drini's page ☎ ) 08:19, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Calling an organization "retarded" is not a personal attack. Eli Cartan 08:32, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I didn't claim it was a personal attack. I claim it's uncivil and therefore against official policy. -- ( drini's page ☎ ) 08:38, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

WP:CIVIL doesn't say anything about removing everything you find to be uncivil. It says "Try and discourage others from being incivil, and be careful to avoid offending people unintentionally." It's hard to say that this editor's opinion is negatively affecting the editing of articles. WP:CIVIL offers a number of different ways to discourage incivility, of which removing the incivility is only one (controversial) way. Another few you might try are:

• Do not answer offensive comments. Forget about them. Forgive the editor. Do not escalate the conflict.
• Ignore incivility. Operate as if the offender does not exist.
• Walk away. Misplaced Pages is a very big place.

KWH 13:20, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Kill it with fire. --Ryan Delaney 15:09, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes...we should delete it. Let us not allow an "anything goes", "tolerate whatever the hell anyone says no matter what" "laissez-faire" policy. Now that is against common sense.Voice of All 15:17, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Kill kill kill! The Cunctator 03:24, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!?--Sean Black 03:28, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I think it burns at Fahrenheit 451. Is Anything Goes really that bad? VoA is right to reference Common Sense: "O ye that love mankind! Ye that dare oppose, not only the tyranny, but the tyrant, stand forth!" -The Cunctator 03:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Paulo Fontaine

This appears to be a role account used for the creation of nonsense articles. The pattern is pretty consistent: articles created by this account are then updated by other accounts which have no or nonsense-only edit histories. The latest block having expired, a whole load of new bullshit edits have been made (see Paulo_Fontaine (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)). This time, Greatgavini (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is involved, but I only have time to go through Fintaine's edits right now so if someone cout review Greatgavini's diffs and look for nonsense edits I'd be grateful. I am inclined to indef-block Fontaine because I'm sick of cleaning up after him. Right now I'm ap 10:05, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Mahabone

I'm requesting, at this point, an indefinite block, partly under the guidelines of Misplaced Pages:Blocking_policy#Disruption, specifically, "excessive personal attacks", but also for the regular disruption of "...the normal functioning of Misplaced Pages." Citations (not including recent) are available on the users talk pages, & in-depth looking will see nearly all of this user's edits constantly reverted, the user repeatedly asked & then warned to desist, & other disruptive & Vandal behavior. I've tried to refrain from interacting with this user lately & leave it to some Admins what with some possibly valid sockpuppet tags, but it has gone too far for too long, especially after his "Vandal" & "insane user" comments, & slander towards Freemasons. Grye 11:25, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

After reading the diffs... and going through the users contributions... All I have seen are abusive comments, personal attacks, complete ignoring of WP:CIVIL, edit warring, and vandalism. As this user is CLEARLY disruptive, I have blocked indefinately. Grye you also need to pay more attention to WP:CIVIL you came quite close to if not slightly over the edge in some of your responses.  ALKIVAR™ 13:51, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou . & most importantly (about the rest), is yes, I recognize that I let myslef be "pushed over the edge" & /or otherwise show incorrigible behavior myself, & stand ready for consequences, but I have, & have often showed, a new restraint & thus that I'm learning & (I hope) applying at near the speed of light (OK, I admit, cable...) ;~D Grye 02:56, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

OneFourOne

Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al

Involved parties

• Ted Wilkes ("party 1")
• Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al ("party 2")

Summary:

Previously the edits by Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al to the Nick Adams and other articles had been orchestrated through referencing and targeted linking to insinuate that Elvis Presley was gay. On the issue of repeated insertion of information that Elvis Presley (and other celebrities) were gay, Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al was found guilty by the Arbitration Committee here of fabricating information and inserting "fraudulently doctored text" into an article as seen here:

As a result, the Arbitration Committee ruled as follows: "Onefortyone is placed on Misplaced Pages:Probation with respect to the biographies of celebrities. He may be banned from any article or talk page relating to a celebrity which he disrupts by aggressively attempting to insert poorly sourced information or original research. "

User Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al has continued his exact same orchestrations and has inserted fabricated information into the article on Nick Adams. His actions have put Misplaced Pages at serious risk of a substantial lawsuit for libel from a vile fabrication that defames a living person in the most vicious and degrading manner possible.

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• Ted Wilkes- is the initiating party and has notifed "party 2" here at User talk:Onefortyone.

Statement by party 1

In the Nick Adams article under the heading Rumors and sexuality, it says "at the time of his divorce in 1965" after which Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al inserted degrading and libelous text against Carol Nugent here that states:

• "He won this bitter court battle after proving that his wife was an unfit mother because she had an affair with another man."

In fact, Nick Adams and his wife were never divorced. This fact is confirmed by the IMDb biography Nick Adams at IMDb that is on the article's External links. In addition, as seen here Image:NickAdams-deathcertificate.jpg in the image of Nick Adams' 1968 Death Certificate from Findadeath.com (and available for purchase at here or also at here, the name of his surviving spouse is listed. NOTE that there is an article section Nick Adams#Marriage, divorce and death that specifically quotes exact words from the Death Certificate.

Previously complainant Ted Wilkes and User:Wyss attempted to put an end to the massive and disruptive fabrications and orchestrations by Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al but were then banned by the Arbitration Committee here from ever editing anything related to sexuality. User:Wyss is afraid so treaded carefully but did her best to at least qualify Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al's libelous fabrication here.

Further, Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al inserted here in the same Rumors and sexuality section that Nick Adams and Elvis Presley may have had a relationship in violation of the ArbCom probation order

In addition, here, Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al knowingly and deliberately doctored (in red) the writing by his Misplaced Pages Mentor User:FCYTravis to falsely state that gay gossip writer Gavin Lambert knew Nick Adams:

• The basis for the claims, thus, are "statements by gay people who knew Adams well such as Gavin Lambert and" personal interviews allegedly to have taken place with third parties, the veracity of which are subject to debate and interpretation.

Motion and request by party 1

1) That Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al be permanently banned from editing all celebrity articles and that he be banned from making any edit related to a person's alleged homosexuality or bisexuality;

2) That Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al post an apology to Carol Nugent on Talk:Nick Adams;

3) That Onefortyone/Anon 80.141.et al post an apology to the Talk pages of Misplaced Pages:Mentorship Committee members User:Marudubshinki, User:FCYTravis, and User:NicholasTurnbull for his conduct because they will be named in any libel lawsuit as parties liable for his conduct;

4) That, as Jimmy Wales did with respect to similar libel at Alan Dershowitz and John Seigenthaler Sr., delete permanently the libelous statement in accordance with Jimmy Wales Talk] that says:

• It is not possible for us to keep revisions public which are libelous. - 12:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
• It has always been our policy to delete libellous revisions - 18:27, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Statement by party 2

It seems as if User:Ted Wilkes, who is also placed on probation for frequently having removed my edits (see ), still tries to denigrate my contributions as he did in the past. To my mind, he made an unfounded request for arbitration falsely accusing me of having inserted fabricated information into the Nick Adams article and claiming that Adams and his wife were never divorced. Significantly, this request was immediately deleted by a Misplaced Pages administrator. Indeed it is not necessary to re-open the case. It should also be noted that Ted Wilkes more than once made such requests in order to denigrate other users including reputed members of the arbcom, such as Fred Bauder. See

Nick Adams's divorce from his wife is mentioned on the following webpages:

• "... he had waged a long and tedious divorce and custody battle with his ex-wife, Carol Nugent... Nick won an expensive custody battle after proving that Carol was an unfit mother because she was having an affair with a fellow named Paul Rapp." See
• "He had a troubled life, which included separating from his wife (but retaining custody of his 2 children)..." See and
• "His personal life was in turmoil as well, as he and wife Carol Nugent became increasingly estranged." See
• "... unfortunately by the time he got back to the states it had already severed his marriage with actress Carol Nugent." See
• "Married to actress Carol Nugent, and his divorce from her was expensive. However, he won the case, since it was proved Nugent had an affair, and he was given custody of their two children." See

Here is the best account of Adams's divorce from his wife:

• "While appearing on 'The Les Crane Show' the following evening to plug Young Dillinger, Nick shocked audiences by announcing that he was leaving his wife. ... After that announcement, Nick's career and personal life went into a tragic free fall. Nick and Carol publicly announced a reconciliation a week later, on Jan. 19. ... Alienated from Carol, Nick fell in love with actress Kumi Mizuno and even proposed marriage to her later. ... Nick and Carol's reconciliation didn't survive Japan. At the end of July 1965, they decided on a legal separation. Carol filed for divorce in September. Nick was still in Japan when Carol was granted a divorce and custody of the children on Oct. 12. On Jan. 26, 1966, Nick and Carol announced another reconciliation on a local television show, 'Bill John's Hollywood Star Notebook.' It wouldn't last. ... On Nov. 26, 1966, Carol resumed divorce proceedings and obtained a restraining order against Nick. Carol alleged that Nick was 'prone to fits of temper' and in a special affidavit charged that Nick had 'choked her, struck her and threatened to kill her during the past few weeks.' 'I'm going to fight this thing all the way,' Nick said. 'I want to keep possession of my home and possession of my children.' It was the beginning of an acrimonious, contested divorce and child-custody battle. Nick became enraged after discovering that Carol's boyfriend was physically disciplining his children and telling them that Nick was 'a bad man' and a 'bad daddy.' Nick hired an attorney, former L.A.P.D. officer Ervin Roeder. Robert Conrad says, 'He (Roeder) was a very, very tough guy and he was a kind of man that was tough to like.' Nick got a restraining order prohibiting Carol's boyfriend from coming to the family home and being in the presence of the children. On Jan. 20, 1967, while waiting for a court hearing to begin, Nick was served with an $110,000 defamation suit by the boyfriend. Ervin Roeder's job was to wrest custody of Allyson and Jeb Adams from their mother. It was one he did well. On Jan. 31, Nick won temporary custody of his children. It was a hollow victory in his tug of war with his wife. Jeb Adams said, 'He saw it as a competition, basically, more than anything of getting custody of us. But, a matter of a week or two later, he gave us back to my mom.' She later regained legal custody of her children." See

Now Ted Wilkes seems to have discovered a new document relating to the death of Nick Adams. I am not sure what this means. Could it be that Carol Nugent is mentioned as Adams's official widow because the divorce was not through at the time of his death? If so, this information may be added to the Nick Adams article. That's all. Onefortyone 01:02, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Response by Ted Wilkes:

• As stated above, Onefortyone does what he always does and uses massive text and blustery to obfuscate the facts. He provides "sources" that are personal websites in contradiction of official Misplaced Pages policy and others that simply quote from the them. However, the issue here is that in falsely asserting Adams and his wife were divorced, Onefortyone maliciously libeled Carol Nugent-Adams by stating: "He won this bitter court battle after proving that his wife was an unfit mother because she had an affair with another man." - Ted Wilkes 13:51, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, Ted, the truth is that this information comes from journalist Bill Kelly: "Nick won an expensive custody battle after proving that Carol was an unfit mother because she was having an affair with a fellow named Paul Rapp." See Further, would you please stop calling me a "convicted liar" (see ), as this is certainly a personal attack. Onefortyone 00:49, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey 141, I don't think it's helpful to call you a "convicted liar," since you may sincerely believe this codswallop and may have spun and manipulated all that text to fit what you in good faith believe to be true. I mean, maybe you're only gullible or whatever. That's an easy trap to fall into with celebrity bios. However, the old tabloid assertions that Adams and his wife were divorced are brought into serious question by his death certificate, which lists him as "married" and further names "Carol L. Adams" (his wife) as the informant. Wyss 01:16, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

The arbcom says about sources for popular culture:

Misplaced Pages:Verifiability and Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources do not specifically address the reliability required with respect to popular culture such as celebrity gossip, but it is unrealistic to expect peer reviewed studies. Therefore, when a substantial body of material is available — e.g., that shown by a google search for 'bisexual "James Dean"' — the best material available is acceptable, especially when comments on its reliability are included.

Support:

1. Fred Bauder 14:03, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
2. ➥the Epopt 14:43, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
3. James F. (talk) 22:38, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
4. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 20:36, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
5. Jayjg 19:20, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
6. Raul654 19:49, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
7. Neutrality 21:52, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Ted Wilkes and Wyss's view of the standard of editing

8) Ted Wilkes and Wyss have repeatedly insisted on an unrealistic standard with respect to negative information regarding celebrities that is current in popular culture, gossip and rumor Talk:James Dean#Removal of "Rumors" section and Talk:Nick Adams#Rumors, gossip or speculation contravene official Misplaced Pages policy

Support:

1. Fred Bauder 14:03, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
2. ➥the Epopt 14:43, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
3. James F. (talk) 22:38, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
4. Jayjg 19:20, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
5. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 04:16, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
6. Raul654 19:49, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
7. Neutrality 21:52, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

This is a clear statement. Onefortyone 02:26, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Why does this need a case reopening? From the statement, it sounds like we just need some administrators to enforce the previous ruling. Dmcdevit·t 07:55, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't. Moved.

James F. (talk) 11:44, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Not that I have a hope anyone will listen to me :) ...But I think this RfA should be re-opened. Wyss 22:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

"...Nick Adams and Elvis Presley may have had a relationship in violation of the ArbCom probation order."

Ha! who knew the ArbCom had this kind of power? :D --Tabor 00:47, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Double degree and User:Howardjp

For some considerable time this user has been obsessively removing a list of universities from this article, as well as trying to turn its original British English into U.S. English, often with edit summaries like "rv vandalism". No amount of reasoning affects him (after ten or so editors had all explained on the Talk page and at Misplaced Pages talk:External links that the list wasn't linkspam, for example, he continued to insist that it was). One or two admins have tried to calm him down and get him to stop, but he accuses them of harassing him, and contiunues to insist that his behaviour is correct. Any help would be appreciated. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:26, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I've made a note on his talk page about the use of British English and American English as it pertains to the style guide. --Deathphoenix 14:34, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I hope that it works. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Howard blanked his talk page but hasn't made any other edits as of the time of this posting. Hopefully it means he's gotten the point. --Deathphoenix 19:09, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

User page deletion

SOmeone deleted a set of links I had off my user page, non content was the reason, but geez I didn't even get a message on my talk page. Can someone please restore them? They were for an article. Deletion Log Entry Dominick 17:11, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Undeleted. That was a rather silly deletion, but to avoid this in the future, you may want to put some sort of descriptive text on your user subpages. android79 17:13, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Incidently, they were at Dominick/links instead of User:Dominick/links. I moved them. Friday (talk) 17:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

(after EC) Ah, now I see why this happened. You put it at Dominick/links, not User:Dominick/links. Friday moved it into your userspace for you. android79 17:16, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks guys! Dominick 20:11, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

216.100.215.5

Yet another vandalism, this time to the Area 51 article. *sigh* Her Pegship 20:18, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Chinggism

Keeps deleting Afd and speedy tags and is talking about censorship. User has been warned several times and has been engaged in several edit wars over the removal of tags from his articles. Dr Debug (Talk) 21:37, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

165.247.91.219

This editor has consistently appended unencyclopedic and unnecessary information to the Michael Schiavo article and has violated 3RR. I imagine that either the user should be blocked (perhaps for 24 hours) or that the article should be semi-protected (perhaps for the same period). Joe 21:34, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Peruvianllama took care of this himself, for which I thank him. No need for any further admin action, then, I imagine. Joe 22:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

For future reference, you may wish to use WP:AIV to request administrator attention against vandalizing, WP:RfPP for requesting page protection, and WP:AN/3RR to report violations of 3RR. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 22:09, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Help!

I've been removing a copyrighted image from Remington 870, and have now exceeded three reverts. This is a copyrighted image (it's all over remington's site and gunbroker.com). Am I violating 3rr by continuing to remove it? I have "welcome"'d the user, requested that they stop, etc. I'd like some administrator intervention here. Thanks aa v 21:49, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Someone arrived before me. However, reverting copyright violations will not count against 3RR. In this case, both the image and the added text are apparently not licensed in a way that is acceptable for Misplaced Pages. So I would say you can freely remove it. --Stephan Schulz 22:24, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Recently the user's activity has included blanking. Sigh. aa v 22:45, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Nextbarker

This guy has been going around on a bunch of highway articles, changing the shields to deprecated (redundant), wrong, and nonexistent images. I know this guy from outside Misplaced Pages, and he has some mental/comprehension/whatever problems (possibly autism?). I have asked him multiple times what he is doing, with no response. I would appreciate if someone else would look at this and try to get through to him, and also to advise me on whether I will get blocked for 3RR if I continue to revert him (as it is not quite vandalism) - or more precisely, will someone unblock me if another admin does block me for such a reversion? --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 22:20, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Well he seems to have stopped for now. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 23:01, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Derek R Bullamore

I need a few administrators to keep a close eye on him. He's been editing since December, and appears to be adding a lot of sneaky vandalism. For example, he's changed birth dates to be a year out, has added false middle names, and has changed cities of birth. I don't want to block as some changes, such as adding Kurt Nilsen's middle name, are proper. I need a few experienced admins to keep a close eye - He's been warned, and he doesn't seem to answer queries, so if he does sneakily vandalise anything I think he should be blocked. Hedley 23:25, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Dante26

Dante26 (talk · contribs) was previously blocked for a week for creating hoax articles and deleting the AfD tags when the articles were tagged as hoaxes. Has now come back and is recreating the hoaxes and even creating more. I have blocked him indefinitely, but apparently blocking him causes collateral damage to lots of AOL users. See his Talk page. He was also posting as User:Opy67. User:Zoe| 23:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

• Deleting his account might be the only way, he seems intent on cycling thorugh every AOL range after he's sure of his block, seems like an intent driven denial of service attack--152.163.100.65 01:59, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Τroll penis

The user has openly given out his password on his talk page. I can see trouble ahead from him and those who access his account. Pat Payne 02:14, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Looks like this user was given an indefinite {{UsernameBlock}}. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 02:18, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

He's flooding his talk page now. — TheKMan 02:42, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Protected. Titoxd 02:45, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Indef-blocked user's password also now changed to random string. -- Karada 02:53, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

koteka

Could somebody semiprotect this, or something? The fark-flood are vandalising it. :( aa v 02:45, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I semi-protected it to ward off vandalism flood from fark. Babajobu 02:49, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

gracias, jobu. aa v 02:56, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

For future reference, you may wish to WP:RfPP to request protection or semi-protection of articles. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 22:08, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

MFD nomination of User RFC page

I take this step only reluctantly, but the explosion of incivility in the past couple of days on Misplaced Pages has convinced me to do it. I've nominated WP:RFC/USER for deletion since the process is so badly broken that we couldn't come up with a worse replacement if we tried. All it does is serve as an opportunity for bile to be spilled and as a step of paperwork on the path to ArbCom. It is most certainly not a method of dispute resolution, as I can't think of a single dispute that has been resolved through it - only escalated. WP:AAP shows the community's unhappiness with this page, which is near-universal and that I feel justifies this unusual nomination. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 03:32, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

The nom has twice been reverted, the second time was by me and I speedy closed the nom. Jtkiefer ---- 03:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

You and Netoholic could try discussing it instead. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 03:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I think it would be best to discuss WP:RFC/USER without placing it on MfD. — TheKMan 03:40, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

It may be the only way to break the logjam. Is anyone happy with the current RFC process? The discussion on WP:AAP was scathing, and few people who have been through it (on either end) are particularly pleased with it. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 03:41, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

From a narrowly please-tell-me-again-how-wonderful-I-am, I am pleased enough with Requests for comment/Bishonen, but it's also an extreme example of the vexatious litigation that plagues WP:RFC. I'm with Crotty, please throw out this broken degenerate crappy bad-faith-encouraging system and start afresh. Bishonen | talk 04:32, 7 February 2006 (UTC).

I speedy closed the nom since it was a ridiculous first step when there are much better solutions (discussion being the first one that comes to mind) to fix it rather than putting it up for deletion and putting it up for MFD in itself is fairly out of line due to the fact that deleting the CFD page would mean taking out an eseential part of the dispute resolution process which I think most editors will agree is quote crucial. Jtkiefer ----

It already has been discussed - see WP:AAP. It's time to do something about it. What other method would you recommend that {A} respects community consensus, and {B} will actually break the logjam? Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 03:44, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Like disruptively nominating a page for deletion just to generate discussion traffic? Don't disrupt Misplaced Pages to illustrate a point -- propose a replacement system and get people to use it. -- Netoholic @ 03:48, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I have blocked for 3 hours User:Crotalus horridus for repeatedly editing a closed MFD in violation of policy. Jtkiefer ---- 03:50, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I speedy closed the debate and despite being warned on his talk page by both Netoholic and I and being having his edits reverted and being warned again he persisted. Jtkiefer ---- 03:52, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Due to the fact that he withdrew it and blocks are not punitive I am going to unblock him immediately. Jtkiefer ---- 03:55, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Now, let's see if we can figure out where to start a discussion on the User RFC issue. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 03:57, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

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