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Revision as of 17:26, 6 November 2011

RE: Concern

I'm currently on the move (editing from my cellphone), but I'll look into this as soon as possible. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Cheers, m.o.p 01:33, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

I've replied on my talk page. m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

MakeSense64 AN/I

Zac, thank you for your valiant support in connection with my complaint. This is to let you know that I have since seen a more constructive side to this user and being an optimist, I have decided not to take the issue any further for the time being. Robert Currey talk 16:53, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. Misplaced Pages has a lot of problems, and the problem of quoting policy to avoid common sense is one of them (the application of double standards is another). You are more of an optimist than I am, but could change my position if I ever encountered a reason to :)

Glad you re-opened the box for your comment. I like something to remain visible for at least a little before it is brushed out of sight for being the ugly problem that no one really wants to think about. Zac Δ talk 17:04, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Four tildes in edit summaries

I've noticed you sign edit summaries with four tildes. These are signed automatically and you do not need to add four tildes to them. If you do the software just adds four tildes to the end of the summary (see your watchlist). Britmax (talk) 08:23, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Belated thanks for clarifying this - I've placed a note on your user page. Zac Δ talk 13:50, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Memo

Just a quick memo that I've replied to that message you told me about. I have picked up on the hint that he thinks you and I are the same person and even challenged him to file an SPI against us. I hope he's ready for a chicken to squat on his face. CycloneGU (talk) 16:50, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Hullo Again

May want to see the latest reply by Atama here. That would be something for either you or Robert to do if it's of interest. Let me know if you go ahead with it, I'd be interested in observing and commenting where I can contribute. CycloneGU (talk) 22:52, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks I have just read that, and the reply. Weekends are difficult but I will try to find some time for this. Thanks, BTW, for having your eyes open and noticing the situation with the Julia Parker page - I didn't give that one as much notice as the deletion request he made for the National Council for Geocosmic Research page yesterday. I decided not to add to the deletion discussion myself because of the COI dispute, but placed a note on Dougweller's talk page, asking if he'd consider a speedy close as he has to similarly pointy AfD's before. Cheers Zac Δ talk 08:05, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Is seen rolling eyes.

Another pointy nom...I've closed it with a recommendation that MakeSense64 be barred from AfD creation. It won't go anywhere, however, but keep all the info on his pointy AfDs, you may need it at AN/I eventually. CycloneGU (talk) 14:12, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	Zac - thank you for stepping in and clearing up a problem with skilled editing, diligent research and sound impartiality. Robert Currey talk 15:11, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! My pleasure :) Zac Δ talk 15:21, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

AN

Penwhale requested to remove the simple pipe links and make them more obvious as to what they are. I went through the first few paragraphs and make changes that I believe better illustrate your points, including changing the list of exasperated users (which I see we're both on) into a list. Can you fix the rest of your post after that point? =) CycloneGU (talk) 15:46, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks so much for what you've done there - really appreciate that. I'm about to make one last post on WP for today and then I have to go out, but will pick it up again tomorrow, or later tonight if I can. My post is a breif comment, but I want to ensure everyone realises that you are completely neutral, and understands that you were aware of my complaint to Dougweller when you took the initiative on the speedy AdF close. It's difficult, because on the surface it's not obvious why that AdF was as pointy as it was, but I don't want to write more than one or two sentences, so as not to derail the more important focus of the complaint. Uninvolved editors are going to struggle to appreciate how long and enduring these pointy tagging and deletion problems have been, unfortunately. Cheers, Zac Δ talk 16:08, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Just a quick point. It's AfD standing for "Articles for Deletion". I also corrected this in your post earlier. =) CycloneGU (talk) 17:02, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

As you have yet to reply, I will interrupt my brief hiatus to the cosmic extremities of the galaxy to use my superpowers of creating the comments your comments could look like (sorry, been watching Old Spice ads) to edit this post. It has been brought to my attention (even if merely by a chance look and my extreme scanning abilities) that a certain Derek Parker has appeared at the Julia Parker AfD. It may be nothing to be concerned about, but I just thought this might be something to keep an eye on. Obviously his !vote in any debate would be discounted, but he is not attempting to !vote, so I presume that all will remain peaceful and no civic incivilities shall occur. Now, if you'll excuse me, I must head off to my starship for a peaceful rest. I will be back when it feels like August 2 to me. CycloneGU (talk) 05:13, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

HI CycloneGU. Thanks for correcting my spelling of AfD! I've been posting too much, too quickly, and it's amazing to me when I look over my earlier posts and find spelling mistakes that were invisible when I first posted them. :) I've looked over my AN post again - to be honest, I don't think it will help to expand any more of those links. It could make my points more difficult to follow, to cut into an example of every point. I see the links as like references (fine to follow if the reader wants to, but disruptive to insert straight into the main text). What you did earlier is helpful, but my inclination is to leave it as it is now, and hope that the overall point is made clearly enough for the proposal to get strong support. There are so many points that could be linked to, that I deliberately wanted the links to remain discreet within the complaint so that the point of the complaint didn't get lost in too many words. But it's also a 'detach from the situation' thing for me - as someone who has been involved, I don't want to get more involved with that unless required to. I have to trust that good sense will prevail within the WP community, and if not, then I suppose I just have to deal with that ! :)

Just took another look at the Julia Parker thread. I don't have any contact of Derek Parker as an editor here, but it looks sensible that he doesn't try to vote - not that I would see that as a problem personally though. I spent most of yesterday working on a biography that was within a few hours of a deletion deadline, and it makes me wonder why these questions of notability are raised on biographies that are clearly about publicly known individuals who have made regular appearances in the media and, as in the Parker case - written a host of books. I'm not a deletionist on WP. The reason I value this project is because I remember how I once struggled to get access to obscure information in the past, to me it's more important that the information is reliable and robustly referenced by independent sources. But anyway, spurred by your comments I just checked the policy on proposed deletion and it says this: "If any person (even the author him/herself) objects to the deletion (usually by removing the *proposed deletion* tag), the proposal is aborted and may not be re-proposed". This comes as news to me - I thought these things rested on a majority 'keep' vote. Will raise this on the page to see if there is a reason why it doesn't apply here.

BTW, that page also says that once a deletion request has been removed, the page cannot be put back for deletion again. That is what happened with the NCGR page, which was relisted twice in quick succession by the same editor, even though the initial problems were rectified. So your speedy keep action appears to be even more justified than I had realised. Best wishes, Zac Δ talk 08:58, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

I say the following in a perfectly friend tone: your newness to WP stands out above. =) I'll explain:

If any person (even the author him/herself) objects to the deletion (usually by removing the *proposed deletion* tag), the proposal is aborted and may not be re-proposed.

That's not in reference to AfD. That's in reference to proposed deletion (or PROD - as in being poked I guess). See Misplaced Pages:Proposed deletion. PROD tags stay on articles for 7 days as a method to propose deletion. If no one removes them, it is agreed that there is no objection to deletion and an admin. will delete the page (see Brett Ritchie for a recent one I have seen it with, and I would have removed it had I known about it; it went to AfD 6 minutes after being restored and wound up kept for what will be obvious reasons). If removed, they cannot be replaced (it's been done to me tho. after removing one...) and the matter HAS to go to AfD. At AfD, it must play out unless speedily closed for a valid reason, then it's closed by an administrator after 7 days (they may extend if no consensus) in the case of delete or a contentious issue, or can be done by anyone with an obvious keep who knows what they're doing (I've closed the odd discussion). AfD tags removed from the article can be summarily replaced by anyone noticing it, but often the nominator is watching the article and restoring it. CycloneGU (talk) 14:09, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks again for the friendly filling-in! There is soo much to learn here isn't there? More complicated than chess :) Luckily I didn't make an issue of that anywhere, since I had a few doubts I knew what I was talking about anyway. Instead I looked at the Parker page again and decided to try to help fix it. Just can't see how the argument about poor notability on that one can hold. Well, we'll see - one thing I have learned is that WP will go where the consensus of opinion lies, regardless of what I think myself. That's not a bad thing. Also, I'm discovering more and more that there is a good spirit of generosity in the editors here, which wasn't what I experienced initially - just lately I've had a lot of helpful direction from other editors who point out little things I hadn't understood. I'm always surprised when complete strangers take the trouble to do that. Cheers, Zac Δ talk 14:53, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Got your comment on my page. For reference, it's often better to start a new section unless your last discussion IS the most recent section; I almost missed the thread. For my own sanity, I'm going to move it to the bottom when I comment. Give me a moment to catch up. =) Also, I play chess. I'm on a horse. (Damn, the Old Spice thing again.) CycloneGU (talk) 16:36, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

 Done See my talk page. CycloneGU (talk) 16:47, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Psychological Astrology

Hi Zac, I have been working on the Psychological Astrology page and would be grateful for your critical edits or comments. Robert Currey talk 22:41, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Robert - just finishing off a last post and then I need to take a wiki break for a couple of days. But will be more than happy to take a look soon as I can get some other projects off my desk. Cheers Zac Δ talk 22:45, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Hey

I'll let you handle this. I'm on my way to bed and you know more about it NEway. May wanna provide details answering all of his statements right there instead of just saying it's all in past discussions. I recommended answering each line directly below that line with examples specific to that line. CycloneGU (talk) 07:08, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi CycloneGU - I was finishing off some edits and then I intended to comment again. But I see that the ban has been enacted now, so I suppose it's not worth commenting further. Some of the arguments are very twisted and selective, but I was interested to hear the comment about Chinese astrology not being featured on the astrology page. I only got involved in that page (in a talk page discussion) at the end of June, and then he followed a few days later. Since then I've contributed to that page a lot and followed all the discussions. He has never once proposed that Chinese astrology is being ignored and ought to receive some coverage. It makes me wonder if he had an issue about this from the start, which explains why all his input has been so negative and disrutive. The page is essentially about western astrology but it's a fair point that it could briefly mention Chinese astrology (along with other systems) and include a link to the page on Chinese astrology. Not sure why he didn't simply make the suggestion.In any case the whole page is being worked over so I'm going to keep that one in mind. It's not the case that astrologers of one system show disrespect to those of another, or rivalry between them as someone might assume following this situaion.

Anyway, a good result. My only concern is that I don't believe this is the editor's only account. Your contribution has been very helpful and I think the result of it will be that WP improves its pages related to this theme significantly now that a massive time-wasting factor has been brought to a close. Thanks for ensuring that it got a close. Zac Δ talk 13:02, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Re: Need some help understanding project category pages

Draft Core Principles Para 2

HI Zac, I have set out a draft proposal for para 2 of core principals - see http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Robertcurrey/draft-sandbox3. You are welcome to edit, if you can make deletions (with crossings out) and additions (with underlines) so others can follow the changes. I hope I have kept to the gist of your original post. I have not put in notes or citations at this stage (and you or anyone else is welcome to do so). (mistakenly posted this on your sand box) Robert Currey talk 01:41, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Robert - added my suggestion below yours, based on your text. Sorry, didn't have time to add markup so I placed it below to keep it separate. Cheers, -- Zac Δ 03:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

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Astrology categories

Feel free to fire away regarding category questions. I acknowledge, FWIW, that the subject could still use a lot more content, and better developed content, if you're thinking about additional articles, and also acknowledge that I am far less than perfect myself in such matters. But, yeah, ask away. John Carter (talk) 20:25, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi John - thanks for getting back to me. The problem has been resolved now because Stepheng3 answered what I wanted to know - details are on the Astrology project discussion page: here.

Basically, I wanted to update the categories so I could design an astrology info-box that navigated through them. I've done something now so you can take a look at how I've used the category list on the main Astrology page (top menu box). Chris Brennan has recently reopened the astrology project and I am trying to help update and improve content as best I can, but there are many problems and a few editors - feels like the wind is whistling down once busy streets. Anything you can do at any time will be a big morale boost. Currently, most editors I have got to know are working on the main Astrology page. Just a handful - but at least a little pulse is left there :) Cheers -- Zac Δ 02:39, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

I have less time to spend on the project in general than I used to, given external considerations sometimes take me out of areas of easy net access, but I can do what I can myself. In general, though, as a general principle, maybe one of the best ways to ensure quality of content is consult the extant reference works and other general, preferably academic, overviews which deal with the subject, and structure content more or less in accord with them, acknowledging differences and any changes which may have taken place since they were published, and try to use the sources they indicate as references for citations, given their apparent high regard. This won't resolve all questions, by any means, particularly on newer subjects, but it might help a bit. John Carter (talk) 17:44, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Taking a Wiki break

Hi Zachariel, I'll be away for a sojourn in India. I'm glad to have had the opportunity to work with you editing astrology articles. I'll be back in a couple of weeks. Ken McRitchie (talk) 17:59, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Aries template

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Solar Ingress Dates

Zac, There appears to be a lot of arguing and editing of the 'correct' start and end dates for 'each zodiac sign' in pages involving the signs of the Zodiac. Since the solar Ingress varies from year to year, I propose that all these dates should be either quoted as a range of dates based or the earliest possible dates in the West and latest date in the Eest or a midpoint date is calculated and agreed and always used with a footnote clarifying how it works. What do you think? Robert Currey talk 21:57, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

On the pages I have edited I inserted the comment"(sometimes the dates vary slightly)". I don't think we need to do much more than that but if you do then I'm fine with you doing it. The dates in the info box are calculated by some sort of formula and I don't understand how that works. Overall I don't think there should be too many dates according to too many systems, that would be confusing IMO.-- Zac Δ 06:02, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Cursory Observation

I notice that MakeSense64 has not edited since the topic ban went into effect. How have things been in the astrology category lately? CycloneGU (talk) 17:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I think it is what would be called "normal" :). It feels good to be able to work on page-content rather than waste endless time in attempts at dispute resolution that go nowhere. There's a lot of work to be done on the astrology pages so it has to be beneficial to have a period of calm. Things are quiet at the moment, with a lot of editors away, but there seems to be a good sense of everyone working in the right direction and rebuilding content on reliable source material. Little chips here and there, but it's slowly coming together. Would be good to have it in pretty good shape within ther next 5/6 months. Thanks for showing an interest, -- Zac Δ 10:23, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

GOCE drive newsletter

Invitation from the Guild of Copy Editors The Guild of Copy Editors invites you to participate in their September 2011 Backlog elimination drive, a month-long effort to reduce the size of the copy editing backlog. The drive will begin on September 1 at 00:00 (UTC) and will end on September 30 at 23:59 (UTC). We will be tracking the number of 2010 articles in the backlog, as we want to copy edit as many of those as possible. Please consider copy editing an article that was tagged in 2010. Barnstars will be given to anyone who edits more than 4,000 words, with special awards for the top 5 in the categories "Number of articles", "Number of words", and "Number of articles of over 5,000 words". See you at the drive! – Your drive coordinators: Diannaa, Chaosdruid, The Utahraptor, Slon02, and SMasters. >>> Sign up now <<<

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3RR on Astrology

Your recent edits seem to have the appearance of edit warring after a review of the reverts you have made on Astrology. Users are expected to collaborate and discuss with others and avoid editing disruptively.

Please be particularly aware, the three-revert rule states that:

1. Making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period is almost always grounds for an immediate block.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss the changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Cheers, Skinwalker (talk) 03:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

It is innapropriate for you to place a 3RR notice on my talk-page when it is not relevant. Please explain why you think I have exceeded three reversions.

In addition, be aware that the reversions I have made were not to enagage in edit-warring (which is why I have ceased comment and decided to stand back for a while). My interest is that of an involved editor protecting content that has been collaboratively developed by a group of editors who have surveyed the subject critically, invested good time into the article, and striven to meet all appropriate policies. Your non-constructive changes have removed highly relevant and firmly substantiated content without good reason, so please read the warning above and apply it to yourself. I have also drawn your attention to the policy statement given on the talk-page, and suggest you adhere to that to avoid any further waste of your time. -- Zac Δ 03:56, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

More specific RfC on astrology

Thank you for your input on the RfC on Astrology. Because I was informed that the original RfC was too vague and general, I've reformulated it with specific concerns. The reformulated RfC can be found here: ] Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 13:54, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

The reformulated RfC is a new RfC, not a continuation of the other one, which was closed because it was not specific. Do not move. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 14:24, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Astrology

You are welcome! I try to write descriptive edit summaries to help readers know why I made edits. I noticed that itwas a good article and even a featured article candidate. I am surprised the article had read the way it did. Let me know if I can help further on other articles or this article as well!Curb Chain (talk) 03:38, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Mechanisms Section

Zac, thank you for your message about the proposed improvements to the mechanism section. I would much like to contribute to your excellent work, but I am unable to do so due to limited on-line opportunities while I am away on business. I will be back early next week. Robert Currey talk 22:36, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Not policy

This is not policy text. Please tread more carefully. Hipocrite (talk) 20:34, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm treading carefully. Please do the same. It's not for you to reword the warnings and policies that have been applied specifically to that page because of its controversial nature -- Zac Δ 20:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

I suggest that you need more global exposure to the wiki. Have you considered editing pages unrelated to your professional interests? Hipocrite (talk) 20:37, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

What a suggestion - do you think I am making money out of this? The pages are related to the subject I have good, reliable knowledge of. No, I don't have an interest in editing pages that I don't have a good, reliable knowledge of. Just can't manage the enthusiasm needed to edit pages that fall outside my own interests. -- Zac Δ 20:41, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

I suggest that if you intend to lecture me about what editors are and are not permitted to do, you actually get exposure to what editors are and are not permitted to do. Until such time as you have such exposure, I suggest you tread far more carefully before you accuse me of violating policy again. Hipocrite (talk) 20:43, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually I gave you a friendly note, rather than the template warning of disruptive editing that ought to be given when editors ignore page policy and change referenced text significantly without consideration of consensus (as this page requires). Thank you for your suggestion though; I'll give it the attention it deserves. There obviously won't be a problem if your proposed edits are sensible ones. -- Zac Δ 20:59, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

3RR warning

You're at 3R already on Talk:Astrology; please beware WP:3RR. More, you appear to be reverting to your preferred text with a spurious reason - viz, that it is long-standing and pre-dates your arrival at the page. that isn't true; you changed it yourself: please see the article talk page William M. Connolley (talk) 22:26, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh as if I would advise you to check the history if I had any rememberence of inputting into that text myself. So what I said "wasn't true" but it was a mistake based on not remembering something, not intentional deceit. Of course, you will see the situation as you wish to. I do know about 3RR, and that 3 does not equal more than 3. I have said that I am ruling myself out of that discussion - what I did was done in good faith, but am more than happy to leave this for other editors to decide what makes best sense overall. Cheers -- Zac Δ 22:44, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Reverting

I am strongly concerned that you have taken WP:OWNership over Astrology, and are using reversion as opposed to discussion as a tool. In this edit, you revert the removal of the bibliography. You may wish to note Talk:Astrology#Bibliography.3F. Please be certain when reverting that you are not reverting against consensus, and if you do engage in reverting, you also engage in discussion. Hipocrite (talk) 12:51, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Hipocrite, please stop issuing bad faith assumptions. It's ridiculous to accuse me of WP:OWN when that was my first edit for 6 days, and was a simple, necessary reversion of an edit which removed the entire bibliography. As explained in my edit summary, the bibliography holds the source text details. (Just go to the first reference of the page and click the author link to see how it links to the bibliography for source text details, following WP:SFN). This list was originally labelled 'sources', but someone decided to change it without prior discussion. The bibliography details need to be incorporated into the references if the citation style applied to the page is to be changed. -- Zac Δ 14:17, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

No, your edit summary was not sufficient explanation. But you have now provided an explanation, thank you William M. Connolley (talk) 14:49, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Out of courtesy I am happy to respond to questions that I am made aware of, if I can help with a problem, but please be aware that until the negativity of the current editorial activity ceases I won't be following the discussions of that page on a daily basis. This situation here, where I am accused of trying to own the page, for making an obvious restoration of essential reference information is an example of editors being discourteous and disrespectful where there is no need to be. -- Zac Δ 15:24, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

If you're reverting and edit you really ought to take the trouble to find out if someone has recently added a carefully-labelled section on the talk page about the issue. Given the bad atmosphere there, that is only due diligence. Expecting people to come ask you is not acceptable. Blaming others for your discourtesy is also unacceptable. There is quite enough trouble on that talk page without adding to it William M. Connolley (talk) 15:34, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

If you feel the need to continue this, carry on as you will, but I won't be responding again. I expect no one to come and ask me things, just like I don't go making issues out of nothing on other editor's talk-pages, or looking for reasons not to restore an essential bibliography which gives the information that most of the pages references depend on. William, if you can't take the trouble to see how the references are made redundant by your removal of the entire list of sources, then you are not well placed to criticize me for reverting and explaining the reason in a brief but self-evident edit-summary. Being accused of ‘ownership’ for my bothering to rescue essential reference information is as discourteous as it is ridiculous, and since the only talk-page comment I have made today is to politely explain why the information needs rebuilding if the bibliography is deleted, then it’s just as ridiculous for you to suggest that I am adding to trouble on the talk-page. Far from trying to 'own' the astrology-page, I am exercising my editorial right to have less to do with it than I have in the past – specifically because of nonsense situations like this. -- Zac Δ 16:18, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Template

Hi Zac, a couple of editors on the astrology talk page are asking about the formatting of the template that you put up on the astrology page. Are you able to fix it as I don't dare touch it as it looks like a house of cards? Robert Currey talk 16:09, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

GOCE drive newsletter

Invitation from the Guild of Copy Editors The Guild of Copy Editors invites you to participate in their November 2011 Backlog elimination drive, a month-long effort to reduce the size of the copy edit backlog. The drive begins on November 1 at 00:00 (UTC) and ends on November 30 at 23:59 (UTC). We will be tracking the number of 2010 articles (and specifically will be targeting the oldest three months), as we want to copy edit as many of these as possible. Barnstars will be awarded to anyone who copy edits more than 4,000 words, and special awards will be given to the top 5 in the following categories: "Number of articles", "Number of words", and "Number of articles of over 5,000 words". We hope to see you there! – Your drive coordinators: Diannaa, Chaosdruid, The Utahraptor, Slon02, and SMasters. >>> Sign up now <<<

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Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience

As a motion amending the above-named Arbitration case, the Arbitration committee has acknowledged long-term and persistent problems in the editing of articles related to pseudoscience. As a result, the Committee has enacted broad editing restrictions, described here and below.

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Generally, the next step, if an administrator feels your conduct on pages in this topic area is disruptive, would be a warning, to be followed by the imposition of sanctions (although in cases of serious disruption, the warning may be omitted). Hopefully no such action will be necessary.

This notice is only effective if given by an administrator and logged here. NW (Talk) 17:26, 6 November 2011 (UTC)