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This article is too long. Instead of adding content to this article, consider expanding or creating subarticles, such as History of Beijing, Geography of Beijing, Economy of Beijing, Transportation in Beijing and Culture of Beijing, as per the WP:SUMMARY guideline.

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Attention railroad buffs: Beijing East?

Beijing East may be inoperable for passenger traffic. It handles freight.

This is all Original Research ...

- I can see BJ East from my window - A few months ago we walked over and checked - No ticket window, a ripped-off timetable - No access to the platform

Someone might look into this and see whether it is still in the timetables. BsBsBs (talk) 23:57, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

This article is one sided

This article is under tight control to keep only one sided opinions in it. Just look at the history from 11/22/11 to 11/24/11 and how quickly the attempts to add mention of Tienanmen square were censored. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nodar95 (talk • contribs) 02:30, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Tiananmen Square 1989

Despite their scope and the fact that they occurred in the city, they have not been included in the history section (i.e. Beijing#History) of this article for many years, for a simple reason: these are not as germane or fundamental to the history of the city alone as the other developments in that section. In addition, the Cultural Revolution, a FAR MORE important event, has not been mentioned for so long, so why should the events of spring 1989 be highlighted? That section is already quite long as it is; there is little room to discuss to even 1/10th of the detail that History of Beijing does.  The Tartanator  00:24, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Mention of the of the Tiananmen Square event of 1989 complies with V, CITE, and RS. It is directly and obviously apposite, for it concerns a notable event that took place in the city that is the subject of this article. The mention is appropriately concise and bears a properly-formatted link to the main article for more in-depth coverage. Everything about it appears to be in accord with all applicable Misplaced Pages policy, protocol, and general practice. The reason you are espousing for the exclusion of mention, in contrast, does not appear to have any basis or support in Misplaced Pages policy, protocol, or general practice. Rather, it looks a lot like you simply don't like it, which does not justify its removal.

The lack of coverage in the article of one relevant thing (e.g., the Cultural Revolution) does not serve as grounds for excluding coverage of another relevant thing (e.g., Tiananmen Square '89). The status of most articles on Misplaced Pages, including this one, is "incomplete". If you feel mention of the Cultural Revolution would benefit this article, by all means add it. But agitating for the exclusion of relevant material, particularly this material in this context, and especially in light of your stridently fervent opinions on matters related to China, can be seen as giving the appearance of an attempt at censorship, which I'm sure you agree is definitely to be avoided.

Overall, please remember that Misplaced Pages works on a consensus basis; your unilateral, persistent, repeated removal of material because you don't think it belongs is not kosher. It's also more than a little rich for you to have requested a lockdown of the article with the putative reason that there's an edit war on, given that you appear to be on a mission, making six immediate reversions of four editors in five days (, , , , , ) to keep the Tiananmen Square material out of this article and only deigning to visit the talk page to assert the rectitude of your unilateral deletion on the last of those five days. That pattern of behaviour makes it very challenging to assume your good faith.

To refresh your recollection, BRDC says if your edit is reverted, you need to discuss it-not re-re-re-re-revert it. That means you stop removing the material from the article immediately. Make your argument here on the talk page, present your thoughts, support them as you can, but unless and until consensus develops to exclude the material, it will need to stay. -Scheinwerfermann ·_C01:23, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

No reasonable person can possibly deduce from my user page alone whether I support the PRC or the Communist Party of China.

Do not give any impression that I am attempting to "censor" anything here or that my reason for non-inclusion simply translates to "I don't like it". Do not lecture me on policies and guidelines that I am quite well aware of. Focus on content, not the contributor.

I have solid, content-based grounds for not including this event here in this article. If you notice, everything else mentioned in the history section involves a military campaign, Beijing gaining or losing capital status, or some drastic physical changes affecting the city. None of this applies to the Red Guard movement or the protests of 1989, which instead had more important effects on the PRC overall. In short, city histories should focus on fundamental developments affecting the city in question.  The Tartanator  02:29, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

the cultural revolution took place in all of china. The tienamen square protests took place only in beijing. It should 100% be mentioned as one of the few chinese events well known to the average westerner, especially if restricted to events which took place in beijing. However, it does not need to have extensive coverage, as there is an entire article dedicated to it. Gaijin42 (talk) 02:30, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

The Tartanator, your assertion here I have solid, content-based grounds for not including this event here in this article looks highly problematic. Carefully keep in mind that you do not own this or any other article, please and thank you. -Scheinwerfermann ·_C02:46, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Again, volleying personal accusations with no commentary on content whatsoever. This makes collaboration or any other engagement with you close to impossible. And how dare you twist my words so they take on meanings that I never intended them to.  The Tartanator  03:13, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Tartanator, my fairly extensive comments on the content in question are at the top of this thread. Please take a few moments to carefully read back and review this thread so far. Not only will you find the content-related discussion you might have missed before, but you'll also please note there are no personal attacks actually taking place. You will also see, if you're reading thoughtfully, that one of us is shouting and two of us are talking. It will work better when we are all talking; that's how consensus gets developed. Shouting louder will not get anywhere productive, so please lower your voice and bring a civil tone to this discussion. Let's have a cup of tea and try to get this conversation steered toward a more productive direction with fewer how-dare-yous and less hystrionics. Please and thank you. -Scheinwerfermann ·_C05:15, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Then do your best to avoid commenting on the contributor. Your first response was filled mostly with policy explanations (the last 2 paragraphs were all about me—don't deny this). All you said was "...for it concerns a notable event that took place in the city", without explaining any further.

"I have solid, content-based grounds..." means only that—in other words, grounds=reasons. No reasonable interpretation could suggest I am "owning" this article.  The Tartanator  05:57, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm sure I'm not the only one who will be pleased to discuss the content in question with you as soon as you can provide a cogent reason, based in Misplaced Pages policy, why it should be excluded.

When a contributor's behaviour and methods are questionable, they'll probably sooner or later be questiond. Editing that looks tendentious or belligerent will tend to raise eyebrows-and voices on the talk page. That's reasonable and proper and utterly normal here; it works that way for me, for you, and for everyone else. There is no exemption for those contributors who don't want their contributions and their manners scrutinised and evaluated. We have community standards here for content and for behaviour. Adhering to them is the best way to avoid uncomfortable conversations. -Scheinwerfermann ·_C06:05, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Neither do you have a cogent reason, based on policy, why it must be included. And there you go again. If you have an issue, then raise it on my talk page, not here where you are wasting everyone else's time.  The Tartanator  06:32, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

The onus is (still) on you to please explain why apposite, well-supported, directly-relevant material of appropriate length ought to be kept out of the article. At least four editors disagree with you and think that it should be included, so you will need to please explain why this apparent consensus is wrong and you are right. -Scheinwerfermann ·_C06:58, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I will repeat again...The protests were far more important to the PRC as a whole, and not so much the municipality; the protests merely occurred there, but what long-term effect did they have on the city? This is unlike any of the other events in the history section, all of which reflect some great significance for the city. If I have to repeat this again, I am afraid this will be a case of "I didn't hear that". And consensus is not determined by numbers, you should know this...  The Tartanator  07:24, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

3O opinion: though the impact on city was minor indeed, this protest is just too notable to be omitted in the article about the place where it happened. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 09:01, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I think it should be included as an event of major importance that occurred in Beijing. The effects are just as important for Beijing as they are for the rest of the country. Just because it had greater implications on a larger scale doesn't mean we don't mention it. However, mention should be brief, and perhaps put in context with Tiananmen square as the location of multiple modern political movements. The May Fourth Movement, for example, certainly deserves mention under the Republican era section as Beijing university students played a major role.--Jiang (talk) 09:07, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Agree, for the same reason that we mention the Xi'an incident in the article on Xi'an, and the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand in the article on Sarajevo, despite the broader significance of these events. Kanguole 22:06, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Tartanator, it's not that I don't hear you. I do hear you. It's that the reason you're offering (still) doesn't appear to have a sound basis, and (still) appears to boil down to "I don't want it in the article". As for how consensus works, please keep in mind that it is, in effect, contingent on numbers. Not in terms of a vote, of course, but more loosely in terms of the collective opinion of those who care to participate in the discussion. Consensus does not require unanimity, and if you'll take a step or two back and try to see the big picture of this situation, what you will see is you versus at least four editors of the article who do feel the material merits inclusion, and you versus everyone else who has weighed in so far in this discussion. Sometimes consensus doesn't go in accord with our personal opinions and preferences. This is looking like one of those times. When that is the situation, the grownup thing is to realise it, stand down, and let it go. —Scheinwerfermann ·_C19:51, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you all for bringing a stop to User_talk:Tartanator deletions, both in the article and discussion sections, and the associated intimidation attempts. It is interesting to read, in the history section of the article under discussion here, a reference to Tienanmen square as the place where the creation of the People's Republic of China was announced in 1949 but that any reference to the protests that took place 50 years later at the same location are not significant enough to be mentioned.Nodar95 (talk) 21:54, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh, wow. I was not aware that Tartanator (talk · contribs) had deleted content from this talk page. Having read your comment, I looked at the history and found this, which is definitely not kosher. There was no personal attack as Tartanator claimed. I have restored the material s/he inappropriately removed from this page. —Scheinwerfermann ·_C22:02, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, his accusation of censorship was nasty enough (enough for me to consider taking him to WQA and even ANI), and even though he did not explicitly mention me, it should have been obvious. This accusation is just as serious as being called a Wumaodang, which I have been before, and I will not put up with any sort of name-calling, and similar to what Bush II stated, those who provide safe harbour for the name-callers, including you, Scheinwerfermann. And for future reference, I am male.  The Tartanator  01:48, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

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