Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:15, 17 April 2012

I still haven't been able to work out whether the Misplaced Pages Script was written as a surrealist modern tragedy, a cautionary tale, or a sitcom; nor whether my own part is that weird genius in the basement, the disposable security officer who gets killed within seconds of beaming down, Falstaff, or just yer bog-standard cameo appearance or comic relief ... Perhaps, when all's said and done, I'll turn out to have been Gaspode, after all ...

And here's an interesting thing: if a group of researchers had been tasked to create a working / hobby environment specifically designed to attract high-functioning autistics, it's hard to see how they could have come up with anything better than Misplaced Pages! If anyone's curiosity is piqued by this idea, do this test! "normal" people score generally under 20, people with high-level math functions often score in the 20-30 range ... and remember, the autism spectrum isn't a threshold, it's a continuum. As with many things, high-functioning autism isn't a "disorder", it's a difference in thought-methods.

ThatPeskyCommoner has just had major surgery on the neck (a bit more complex than expected; two discs had to be totally removed and three vertebrae plated together). WikiActivity may be a little sporadic for a while.

This editor is a Most Perfect Tutnum and is entitled to display this Book of Knowledge with Coffee Cup Stain and Cigarette Burn. This user is principle-centred and wishes everyone else was, too! HFA This user has High-functioning autism Beware! This user is a known talk page stalker. This user is quite possibly Gaspode 5 This user has 5 grandchildren. 50+ This user is a quinquagenarian. meso This editor is a mesopedian. This user is a member of the Kindness Campaign. Beware! This user's talk page is patrolled by talk page stalkers. Stalker counter! User:Jake Wartenberg/centijimbo

Archives

/Archive 1/Archive 2 /Archive 3 /Archive 4 /Archive 5 /Archive 6 /Archive 7 /Archive 8 /Archive 9 /Archive 10 /Archive 11

This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present.

Thanks for the offer...

...but I am reasonably confident he was just trying to use that as a shield from criticism. Which, IMHO, is fairly reprehensible. Still, I'll keep it in mind if I run into something similar again. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:27, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh yes, that was a blatant "here's my excuse, deal with it!" manoeuvre, which is why I answered him (possibly a little tersely!) Being on that scale myself, and having taught a lot of Aspie/Autie spectrum people, I can generally spot when someone's totally genuine or when they're taking the piss! And that was pure piss-taking. On the more serious note, I'm dead happy to be "interpreter" when needed, as I've discovered little keyholes, as it were, to bridging the perception gap, which usually work very well. Hugz ;P

Adding: If he's a "wriggler" who looks for loopholes to do what he wants to do anyway, just don't leave him a millimetre of wriggle-room. Instead of using words like "should", "shouldn't", "best not to", etc., be absolutely uncompromising "do", "don't", "never", etc. Pesky (talk) 07:28, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm slightly familiar with Aspergers issues (some of my kids' friends are on various parts of the spectrum, and we're friends with their parents), but probably to be honest I know just enough to think I know more than I do. I wonder if this is going to be a blue link: WP:ASPIE... Nope, guess not. Someone who does know what they're talking about (hint, hint) should think about putting together a page of tips for A/A editors here. Might come in handy. (or if there is such a page, redirect that link to it.) Can't stay online much longer, thanks for offering to help there. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:54, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm fairly happy for my talk page to be the A-Team page, lol! Pesky (talk) 18:51, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Reply

Hey thanks for the reply on my talk page for your comment. I will take them into consideration. Still, I realise that I shouldn't have used my disability as an excuse to get away with what I wanted because It pissed of Floquenbeam, and Strange Passerby at the same time. It was a bit tad far and I apologize for the inconvenience and the disruption caused. I realize that my actions could affect the other people around me. IF you think I am going to use this all the time to get away with what I want, please note that I do all I can to try not to do such a thing. If there's anymore I feel unaware of, can I come and ask you for guidance? If so, Thanks and Happy End of March. :)Soviet King (talk) 10:07, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey, not a problem! Seriously, there are loads of us in here (and several of my talk-page stalkers will grin here, knowing who I mean!) Being on the Aspie/Autie spectrum doesn't have to be a problem, it's just a different way of seeing / hearing the world, and we have to learn our way around it. But we see a lot of stuff which neurotypical people totally miss out on, too, which is often the exact stuff that can make us really good editors. You can always come over here to my talk, the only ground rules I have here are that we're gentle with each other, no battles allowed, just kinda like a support team structure for when people need it. Chin up; it's not as bad as you think, we just need to be that extra bit careful sometimes! Pesky (talk) 10:14, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, really. Much appreciated. I will notify Floquenbeam also that I have talked to you and that I will talk about what terms should I agree to work on. See you around. Soviet King (talk) 10:18, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

If I were you, I'd post an apology and an "I will try to do better!" note onto Floq's talk and onto Strange Passerby's talk as well; just a sort of "Yes, I did wrong, sorry I did that, hope we can all move on OK with each other now" kind of thing. Apologising when we did wrong is always a good thing to do. Pesky (talk) 10:26, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey SK, I'm not sure how old you are (and therefore how much experience you have of being A-Spectrum), but I'm a granny, and I have A-Spectrum relatives, and I've also taught A-Spectrum people. I can understand why you flipped there. For us A-Spectrum types, sometimes it just feels as though people are setting out to get at us, or being stupid or blind or stubborn or whatever, and it feels as though they deliberately tried to piss us off. And then, if we're not careful, we "hit back" by doing something to piss them off, as though they'd done it on purpose. (Which they usually didn't!) I've found both online and in Real Life that the best thing to do, when we get all snitty like that and want to lash out, is to take some down-time. Disconnect, walk away, focus on something totally different and soothing. Some of us need a couple of hours; sometimes, if it's really bad, some of us need weeks of downtime. But, if you start to feel snappy, log off for at least several hours; then when you've had a bit of quiet time, if you need some help dealing with something, just ask for the help. If I'm not here on my talk, I expect one of my A-Spectrum stalkers would be able to help you out. Always remember, when you're feeling pissed off, that the chances are that the other person wasn't doing it on purpose, OK? Pesky (talk) 10:45, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

WP:V mediation compromise drafts

Hello Pesky, this is just to let you know that to help find compromise drafts at the verifiability mediation, I would like each mediation participant to submit at least one draft at one work group that includes the best of all the previously submitted drafts of that work group. This will probably make more sense if you look at this section on the mediation page, but if anything is still unclear, just let me know. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius 17:36, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

your implants, hmm, legal or cheating ?

I made a pic for you pesky. I started off thinking how your mods are sort of like the android technology, and then I came across a texture for an android eye, and added it to another image, but it went off in a totally not you direction, but ok for an actual wikibot. But then I saw this sprightly lass, and thought yep, that's pesky. Unless it's like one of those can't get out of bed feeling too creaky days, then there are other ways to feel. HAHA just kidding. Actually I feel that way about 30 % of days when I walk (but only for a while). But I'm ok. You're ok too I do hope. Penyulap ☏ 13:52, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Hahahaaaaaa! That is absolutely brilliant! Thank you so much! I am feeling not too bad, though I woke unable to turn over this morning (other half got morphine for me), as I'd been sleeping in one position for about 16 hours, and been awake for the whole 36 hours before that!

I'm glad you're beginning to feel better. Give it a fortnight or so, and you'll hardly know it was done. Pesky (talk) 06:22, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm not on pain(mind)killers yet, but I've stated anti inflammatory med and anti biotics. Penyulap ☏

If you can tolerate anti-inflammatory medications, they will do you a heap of good. Inflammation both causes pain and can interfere with healing, so knocking that on the head serves more than one purpose. I have to rely on pain-killers for the most part as there's only one NSAID that I can tolerate, and I'm already maxed-out on the dosage of it! Hugz; keep improving! You'll end up just fine. Remember to get plenty of fresh air, fresh fruit and veg, and loads and loads of water-based fluids. These things will all help healing to go faster. Herbal teas with echinacea are particularly good for boosting your immune system to ward off infections in the op site, and chamomile herb teas are also a bit anti-inflammatory, and will help your sleeping. Add honey to them; honey is one of those "magic" foodstuffs whose properties are still being discovered. Pesky (talk) 07:20, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Out of that lot I can manage honey and water, that's about all. Plus, I did honey, and even after my mouth had cleared there'd be some sweet taste now and then even after my mouth was empty, suggesting one hole is rather deep and not good, it stretches quite a ways. A different one reached my eye socket I think before. But it should all be well, I try not to eat in a way that will enter the wounds I think. But I should be ok (fingers crossed), and you should keep recharging.(I change the pic, so you have two, to indicate mood) Penyulap ☏

You can almost certainly buy herbal teas on eBay. They're cheap, they ship / post well, and should arrive very quickly. Trust me, it's worth it! Pesky (talk) 07:52, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm not on speaking terms with paypal and fleabay at the moment. I can, but I choose not to, at one point I think I tried to sign in and it said something about the IP I was using at the time and wouldn't let me, so I haven't bothered trying to spend since, as it was the last straw after the whole ANTI-human rights stance they took. I think I recall there was a picture of a burning child which stopped the Vietnam war. The information that wikileaks publishes can easily stop millions of people getting killed. Paypal took a stance that was blatantly against humanity, so I'm not interested in them anymore. Not for ages anyhow. But I will look for some tea at the shop I think. Anyhow, why are you still typing, aren't you supposed to be sleeping ? sleep-editing, like sleepwalking. Penyulap ☏ 08:23, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

No, I need to be moving around now, having slept in one position for so long! We're just about to go off and collect a load of stuff which we bought at a farm auction on Friday, so I'll be afk for a few hours now. The weather is glorious down here this morning; we had a bit of overnight frost, but we have clear blue skies, gentle breeze and bright sunshine now, which we will make the most of :o) Pesky (talk) 08:58, 2 April 2012‎ (UTC)

That will do more than tea can ever do ! you're charging faster now ! I am eating something green now. Penyulap ☏ 09:22, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

A caterpillar? Pesky (talk) 17:38, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Ha! I am not eating a caterpillar. But oh Pesky, and your entourage too, let's find and film an inch-worm !! That would make a nice addition. It could climb all over wikipedia ! ( a better mascot maybe as some people think wikipe-tan is creepy, but the majority of humanity thinks that a creepy centipede is creepy, it's hardwired into our brains ), Inchworms are quite cute, or not. Are you scared of creepy crawly things ? Penyulap ☏ 01:14, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Creepy crawly things, on the whole, don't scare me. I don't like big spiders, but I'm not actually scared of them, as such. I'm a bit allergic to wasp stings, so I try to avoid them where I can. I'd be very wary of seriously venomous snakes, for obvious reasons, though our British adders don't worry me at all (I've been bitten three times, and it's never been much of a problem!) We have them on our ponies' field, and of course there are plenty out on the Forest. I have a pet eight-foot boa constrictor - so clearly large (non-venomous) snakes don't scare me either – though obviously one has to be careful around them. Never handle them without another person around in case of emergencies, kinda thing. Cuddles is, for the most part, pretty chilled out, though she does sometimes have a few "behavioural issues", lol! Pesky (talk) 08:39, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

WP:V mediation step five

Hello Pesky, this is another update about the verifiability mediation. We have now started step five, in which we will work towards deciding a final draft for each work group. I would like you to submit a statement about this - have a look at the mediation page to see the details of what you should include. The deadline for this step is 10.00 am on Friday 6th April (UTC), and unlike the other steps I am going to be strict about it. If you don't leave a statement by the deadline, then you won't be able to participate in steps six or seven. If you think you are going to be late turning in your statement, please let me know as soon as possible - I can't promise anything, but it will be much easier to work out alternative arrangements now than it would be after the deadline has passed. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius 17:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

A big NPT update

Hey! Big update on what the developers have been working on, and what is coming up:

coding

• Fixes for the "moved pages do not show up in Special:NewPages" and "pages created from redirects do not show up in Special:NewPages" bugs have been completed and signed off on. Unfortunately we won't be able to integrate them into the existing version, but they will be worked into the Page Triage interface.
• Coding has been completed on three elements; the API for displaying metadata about the article in the "list view", the ability to keep the "patrol" button visible if you edit an article before patrolling it, and the automatic removal of deleted pages from the queue. All three are awaiting testing but otherwise complete.

All other elements are either undergoing research, or about to have development started. I appreciate this sounds like we've not got through much work, and truthfully we're a bit disappointed with it as well; we thought we'd be going at a faster pace :(. Unfortunately there seems to be some 24-72 hour bug sweeping the San Francisco office at the moment, and at one time or another we've had several devs out of it. It's kind of messed with workflow.

Stuff to look at

We've got a pair of new mockups to comment on that deal with the filtering mechanism; this is a slightly updated mockup of the list view, and this is what the filtering tab is going to look like. All thoughts, comments and suggestions welcome on the NPT talkpage :). I'd also like to thank the people who came to our last two office hours sessions; the logs will be shortly available here.

I've also just heard that the first functional prototype for enwiki will be deployed mid-April! Really, really stoked to see this happening :). We're finding out if we can stick something up a bit sooner on prototype.wiki or something.

I appreciate there may be questions or suggestions where I've said "I'll find out and get back to you" and then, uh. not ;p. I sincerely apologise for that: things have been a bit hectic at this end over the last few weeks. But if you've got anything I've missed, drop me a line and I'll deal with it! Further questions or issues to the usual address. Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:06, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Whoooo-hoooo! I'm actually looking forward to getting back into it, lol! Pesky (talk) 07:48, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

aaaarrrrgh! argh, argh, argh!

So, motor function is back to all those muscles which had mega-reduced nerve input before the op. And, of course, since they haven't been working properly for months and months, they are all grossly unfit and soft. And I can't switch off the nerve supply to rest them!

So, my supraspinatus, infraspinatus, rhomboid, trapezius and part of the latissimus dorsi muscles have been merrily working away, non-stop, and now they are on fire and swelling up, just as you'd expect unfit muscles to be when you suddenly start remorselessly working them, non-stop! Arrrrrrrrggghhhhhhhh! Serious muscle pains! Pesky (talk) 07:57, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Oh no, poor Pesky! *biggest ever hug* Bunnies! Leave a message :) 08:16, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Super owch, things do go downhill fast when you can't use it. I know where you're at. Take a bubble bath. It may or may not help, but either way it'll feel nice and you have an excuse so no-one can mess with the idea. On the scale of good advice from bubble bath to get out there and mow your neighbors lawn, I'd think it's a reasonably good idea. Penyulap ☏

I've had the staples taken out of the wound this morning; another two days and I'll be allowed to have that bubble bath! Can't wait! Just had a call from the local police to say that someone's cut the fence down on our field and two of the ponies got out, so Other Half has zoomed off with the fencing material to repair the fence. That really annoys me! All people have to do, if they want to walk on the field (which we allow, for those who are well-behaved), is to walk around the corner and use the damned pedestrian, horse-proof gate which we put there especially for them, but no, they decide they want access closer to their favourite route instead ... people make me spit, sometimes! Pesky (talk) 09:26, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Take a soft hug, please! What can I say, looking at the pictures and trying to imagine how it hurts? Another image for you, with passion, nominated for the Main Page on Good Friday, - still in the process of improving the article, see my talk, Passion, comments welcome, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:49, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Megahugz! About the fence, honestly, WTF?! Nortonius (talk) 10:49, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the huggies! Hugs always appreciated over this way, lol! (Nice careful muscle-massages also welcome ;P) @Gerda: lovely pic; what a nice idea to have that DYK for Good Friday. It's a beautiful piece of music, that. I'm zapping the muscles with Powergel (Ketoprofen gel), the usual painkillers, and massage. Eventually they will settle down, it's just the process of them fittening-up again, which is transitory. Other Half has done a good-enough-for-now fix on the fence; it still needs finishing off, but it will do for the time being. It's the kids who live in that little road who are the problem – it doesn't seem to occur to them that if they can walk through, then so can the ponies! I think we'll have to resort to putting a kiddie-sized hole-type stile into the fence there so they have no reason to wreck it; apparently some of them "aren't allowed" to walk around to the gate. Can't think why, the roads there are quiet, narrow little residential lanes, it's not as if there's dangerous traffic on them! Pesky (talk) 12:18, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

We sang it in 1998, 2009 and 2010, the second time a crop of that picture was the poster. Dr. Blofeld just helped me to fill three red links for the poets. I read "Mir hat die Welt trüglich gericht't" (The world has judged me deceitfully), - that rang a bell again, liberty bell, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:37, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

I miss singing! I used to do an awful lot of vocal and choral work, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I remember the Ernest Read concerts with a great deal of affection; we did one once, in London, with a choir of over 2000 people, singing The Messiah. Incredible stuff. Pesky (talk) 13:17, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

He was despised, Andreas Scholl sang it for us last year, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:22, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

I miss singing, I built a professional career around singing actually. It's true, I made a lot of money. I don't do it these days of course, they have those new chemicals that stay for months after you spray, whereas my voice only killed cockroaches and spiders and things on the day I sang, after I got paid and left, the home would again fill with pests. Now days pest control is all done with chemicals I'm afraid. Penyulap ☏ 15:00, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

HFA UBX

That's what I came for, about the UBX 4 HFA which is DOA ATM. I had been thinking to have a short sentence where words switched with synonym or pictures, the way a Rubik's Cube changes on it's face. So the same sentence presents the multitude. That was the idea, but I can't think of any decent sentences for it. I got excited when I saw that 3 people have chosen to use my ubx's. even though I hadn't really finished PenTrain properly at all, and though I better get to work, but the HFA I thought I better ask for help with on the ideas, as I was going nowhere. Penyulap ☏ 15:17, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

If you want some concepts for HFA, you could switch from one phrase to another, using something like "Same tracks, different mix" , "Same shapes, different colours", "Just hardwired another way", "Better at some things and worse at others". I can't immediately think of a suitable sentence, just switching words. Pesky (talk) 17:44, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Draft 0 of group 4

Hi! What didn't you like about Draft 0 of group 4? Regards, --Bob K31416 (talk) 21:23, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi there; the only thing I really though it could do with a bit more depth / emphasis on was the way in which the core content policues work together (even putting that bit into a sub-heading might have been enough), and the "perceived truth and personal experience" not being a substitute for verifiability. It was succinct and concise (and well worded), I just felt it didn't quite have the weight it could do with, to deal with editors who get piggy about wanting their favourite stuff in. Pesky (talk) 08:55, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Regards, --Bob K31416 (talk) 11:01, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Years of Red Dust

Hi! I notice you added a notability concern tag to Years of Red Dust. The good news is I found that the New York Times book review wrote about this book. Want me to find more reviews? WhisperToMe (talk) 07:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Not personally, though obviously everything you can add in the way of independent sources is always good (so long as you don't ref-bomb it beyond what is reasonable!) Within reason, the better something is referenced, in quality and quantity of sources, the better. Just add them in. Pesky (talk) 08:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Dispute resolution survey

Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite Hello ThatPeskyCommoner. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Misplaced Pages, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released. Please click HERE to participate. Many thanks in advance for your comments and thoughts. You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated research page. Steven Zhang 11:19, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

 Done

A barnstar for you

		The Modest Barnstar
		In recognition of all the work you’ve done lately! 66.87.2.116 (talk) 13:49, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Haha! I've done so little work recently that I feel like a fraud with this on my page! Thanks, anyway! Pesky (talk) 17:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I would like to present you with something more appropriate

		The Very Modest Barnstar
		In recognition of the little things that you do. Penyulap ☏

But I can't tell you which one is for what, because the little things that you do mean so much to me. They all seem so big to me! Penyulap ☏

Awwwww, how cute is that? I assume it's one of your own creations :o) Pesky (talk) 12:27, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

The assembly, wording and sentiments. I didn't make the barnstars, but I assembled 4 of them into a single anim, I was trying to do this:

It left the cute little barnstars in my mind. So it was a perfect fit to my vocabulary to say what I wanted to say.

It was on the tip of my tongue.

but it turned out that I couldn't do that big image within my attention span so I adjusted my aim to do a faster compound image instead. That worked out to illustrate the same idea I wanted to say, it also left the barnstars on the loose. I still haven't brushed up on how to do the text all around the pics, not priority. Penyulap ☏

The four little twinkly stars are just really cute; I like them better than the big image. May I borrow them sometimes, for people? Pesky (talk) 17:13, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

No. (gotcha)Penyulap ☏

You should definitely give them out. Penyulap ☏

Extended content

I haz a new essay! Read it at WP:AUTIE! Nice, kind, constructive comments welcome. The other sort probably not so much. Pesky (talk) 07:59, 6 April 2012 (UTC) Now that is more what I call priority, I've had an easier time of it with that idea after I scanned the essay. I think a nice slideshow with the well known people would be the go to paint the picture. I was thinking for nice well rounded concepts like music, sculpture, science, paint, poet, like that. I am thinking tesla, socrates, vincent van gogh, newton, darwin, asimov, howard hughes, andy warhol, maybe michelangelo ? I think John Nash is a good inclusion, he was the subject of a film called "a Beautiful Mind" he computed and projected what people would do and how people would act in given situations, like me. Who are your favourites ? and will rain man be controversial ? Penyulap ☏ I don't have any favourites! IRL, I don;t care what labels people have; I take them as they are. I do find it sometimes helpful to know if someone's A-spectrum, because then I tend to assume they're in switched-out mode rather than deliberately standing aloof and ignoring me! (I used to get into such trouble for "rudely" ignoring someone, when I was so busy on another planet that I hadn't actually even noticed them ... and then when I did, the moment they left off talking to me to talk to someone else, I was switched back out again ...) Pesky (talk) 17:18, 6 April 2012 (UTC) Maybe you were mis-diagnosed by someone who couldn't spell 'academic' while 'student' was escaping their mind. I don't think anyone pays attention at school. Actually I have a friend who gets upset on the phone if they don't get my completely undivided attention. If they can hear the tv it's your a cheating lover time. Or eating, or anything at all. Penyulap ☏ I wasn't diagnosed at all, as a child! Not that it would have probably made much difference-for-the-good, in those days. I think schools are a bit more enlightened now, on the whole. Pesky (talk) 21:01, 6 April 2012 (UTC) I was joking in the section above. You're too easy. :) Today school is different in the west, everyone is mass diagnosed with Attention deficit hyperactive disorder whether they have been examined or not. I think it's rare to get good medical care at any age. I think even with good medical care it would be hard to spot you sitting at the school desk dreaming away. I suspect they'd diagnose you with a most popular disorder called smack-deficit disorder, I suffered from it, and I still do. The rest I never care about as I'm in awesome company so who cares. Penyulap ☏ I went to the sort of school where they expected you to do three to four hours of homework every evening! I only did the bits I liked, and I did those for fun. I honestly couldn't see the point of wasting precious time (and time is precious, you just can't make there be more than 24 hours in each day) in "proving" that I remembered what I'd absorbed with half an ear on the lessons during the day. My feeling was, "If I know I know it, why use up all my free time just to satisfy someone else?" I couldn't understand, for the life of me, why other people had such trouble remembering stuff. I should have noticed what you were doing, just up above – my excuse (for this evening) is that I;m full of morphine again (having been digging a trench for a gravel-retaining board in the garden this afternoon ... taking it easy, lol!) I think the only purpose for diagnostic labels is as a kind of shorthand information on how best to deal with someone, communicate with them, interact with them. But they so often get used as an excuse for other people not to put in the effort to learn what makes someone tick, and put themselves out a bit to make a relationship (whether it's teacher-student, parent-child, whatever) work. Online, I don't think most people would know I was autie if I didn;t say (apart from the occasional needing things to be re-explained a different way, and the odd misunderstanding of ambiguities). It's much more obvious IRL. I don't like parties unless I can lurk in the kitchen doing the washing up, and then the only people I have to interact with are the ones who really want to come and talk to me, etc. And I'm quite sound-sensitive (and I still find it really hard not to put my hands over my ears if I think someone's going to be mad at me). A lot of social situations are just waaaaay too much; but I can happily spend weeks with just animals for company, and wildernessy places to walk in and sit in (or ride in). I hate doctors' waiting rooms – the chairs are always too close together, and I find that very oppressive. Pesky (talk) 21:42, 6 April 2012 (UTC) Heheh, just like me, rip the cast off, pull out the IV, cut out the stitches, go digging in the garden. sigh, will we ever take it easy ? Actually, I do nothing all day long so what am I talking about.I woke up with an idea in my mind, it popped in there just as my mind was crossing from sleep into being awake, as the anim descriptions say. Here is one of the infinite versions of PenLifts. Then I did 'sister wikipetan' for some preacher guy I think. It's on my talkpage. I should do like you do and go outside, but I guess as days go indoors, it was an ok one. Penyulap ☏ Hey, cool anims! You really should get outdoors; fresh air and daylight speed the healing processes. I'm not quite just like you, though – when I have a cast, and I need to go somewhere damp, I just cover it in a plastic bag! As for stitches, I leave 'em until I'm healed (partly because I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, so my skin takes longer to heal up than the average person's skin does, and if stitches / staples come out too early, the wound will just open up again ... eeeewwwwww .....). Always good to leave IV lines in until you're cleared to remove them, because otherwise, if they need access again, they have to get another line in, which is more painful than leaving in the one which is already there! But getting out and about, and doing what you can (and not pushing it too much), promotes healing and stops you needing so much physio, etc. I really mean the t hing about doctors' waiting rooms, and trains, buses, cinemas, theatres etc. are all the same, too. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable and edgy and irritable, being forced to sit side-by-side, within elbow-distance, with total strangers. And in rows where other people are far too close to my back (I hate it when people come too close to my back). Is it the same for you? Pesky (talk) 06:02, 8 April 2012 (UTC) I don't really like to talk here about the social stuff, maybe email. But hospitals ? OMG. Disease collections, got a disease ? bring it to our collection where our helpful staff will help exchange and propagate it, find new and interesting infections you just can't get at home, come one, come all, we have something for everyone. Something seasonal and exotic for that special occasion. I put another one here scroll down to the bottom, where you see the train and the one that may look blank :) Penyulap ☏ Brilliant! Hey, but you forgot one thing ..... when your train is going from right to left, your name is back to front on it! You need to edit those few frames so it's the right way around :o) Pesky (talk) 20:35, 8 April 2012 (UTC) NO WAY !!! you can see that ?????? What great eyes you have. I am really surprised that you spotted that. hehe I won't ask if you can see it anywhere else, that would have to hurt your brain to look through them. But you can see it ? like clear at all ? readable ? really ? Wah ! Penyulap ☏ Ha! I can actually see it too if I turn up the magnification on the browser, I should try to get a bigger monitor or something, I wonder what else I am missing out on. Penyulap ☏ Hehehe! "Seeing things" is something I've always been good at. And I don't mean the hallucinatory sort! I think most people probably wouldn't see it, so there's no mad rush to change it. Pesky (talk) 22:02, 8 April 2012 (UTC) Please comment on Misplaced Pages talk:Deletion policy Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Misplaced Pages talk:Deletion policy. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Misplaced Pages:Feedback request service. — RFC bot (talk) 15:18, 8 April 2012 (UTC)  Done A train for you, if you get the message on this one. You saw the message written on the fast train, well the message with this train is quite different, but you have to have good internet I think or it is a bit jerky and won't display correct, I'm not too sure. Don't look at it if you are tired or Zonked out on drugs, leave it till later ok ? I mean it. I put it on a separate page, because I noticed before when I was doing some machinima for someone's userbox that long videos choke the user talkpages. But you can have a small especially made train, like the little steam train, if you get the message on this one. But if you do, you can't post it anywhere, don't write it down ok ? Anyone can join in too, if they get the message, and are sure (you'll know) you cannot say, but it's ok to email me and I'll tell you if you are correct, but only if you're not sure. I'll award little trains for anyone who can tell me they know AND keep the secret, on their honor, ok ? Remember, only if you are feeling well. ok ? This is the page. If you have to start over for any reason, you have to hold the shift key down and click refresh. Penyulap ☏ It's not loading correctly, but I looked at its ingredients (hehe! is that cheating?) You are very clever; immensely clever. Hey, but I noticed something else! The wheels don't actually turn ... rofl! That's not what you intended I should notice, though, I know! I love the train. I think it should have a buffet car, so I can treat you to lunch! Pesky (talk) 09:06, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Thanks for the compliments, I'm sorry that there are limits to the 'wiks software and the internet. Yes that was cheating, but you can't be blamed as it didn't work for you, I wonder if it works for places with really good internet. The wheels don't need to turn except for Grannies with big eyes. :) A good artist knows that people generally stand back a little from the painting :) but that's good too. I think from what you do know I meant, and what message it wasn't, that obviously you know the message, so if you like I can award a train with a buffet car, what kind would you like ? Want to sit in the stationary steam train so that the Tea doesn't spill ? but the engine can still run, if the wind is ok. You could give it to people, like, "Pesky treated this user to lunch in the dining car." like that, a personal ubx. Penyulap ☏ As for people standing back from the painting, I can see a chaffinch in a tree 50 yards away! I have a real soft spot for steam trains :o) How about a steam train whose wheels turn (and the big pistons driving the engine wheels also move), and where a background of trees and telegraph poles move past behind it ... so that the train appears to be moving, but we can always see the buffet car (which has "Free Food Buffet" on the side)? And can the smoke drift backwards from the smoke-stack, as well? And am I waaaay too demanding? ;P (>**)><(**<) Hugz! Pesky (talk) 11:26, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Yes, but no guts no glory. If it is in two shots that switch back and forth that is cool, I can animate the steamtrain wheels and maybe a funnel with the smoke and so forth, and then switch to a shot of the buffet car (wheels not moving), so the short film has 2 or 3 shots that repeat. When there is more footage, like canoe's film in my talkpage archive, then it sucks up a LOT of space, and would load up anyones talkpage loadtime. Moving backgrounds sort of do that a lot. but I can play technical tricks on this one that make it work better and load better, especially if it's a two shots kind of thing. (or maybe three later) Penyulap ☏ Baiting and blocks I noticed your comment elsewhere on baiting and blocks. I don't want to comment there, as there are more than enough people getting worked up over that matter, but one of the reasons blocks aren't usually issued for baiting is that it is something seen in the eye of the beholder. What is baiting to one person will be robust discourse to another person. I personally would be very wary of any definition of baiting that didn't take this into account. A common pattern is for two editors to have an argument, and when one editor doesn't like what is being said, they get upset. Then others arrive and accuse the other editor of baiting the first one because that editor has got upset. Especially if a block has resulted, the 'etiquette' seems to be that rather than try and talk it out and sort out differences, the editor accused of baiting has to stay well away (because if they dare try and say anything even if trying to apologise or correct something or respond to an unfair allegation against them, they will be accused of yet more baiting, so they can't win either way), and the blocked editor is left with only a self-reinforcing group of sympathisers who spend time commiserating with them. My view is that too many people descending on a situation like that just makes things worse and all perspective is lost. Far better to limit the discussion to a few people and let them try and sort out their differences. Doing that in a crowd of other comments is almost impossible. This is one of the reasons why ANI threads often fail to reach resolution, and it is also a reason why user talk pages that are heavily watched by those sympathetic to that user can act like echo chambers. It can be very intimidating to want to say something contrary to the prevailing mood, but knowing that all the others posting there will in all likelihood just shout you down. Which goes back again to my view that user talk pages should be for brief messages and small discussions only, not big group discussions. Carcharoth (talk) 14:50, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Ah, I obviously wasn't clear enough in what I meant! I only meant what would be considered by any reasonably intelligent person, assuming good faith, to be baiting. And things along the lines of comparing an editor to a naughty and thoughtless brat, knowing that that editor is likely to get hammered if they become (quite reasonably) irritated by that, I consider to be relatively obvious baiting. Maybe I'm wrong on that, it's just how it seems to me. Pesky (talk) 16:01, 9 April 2012 (UTC) It is rarely obvious though. I don't think it was in this case, for example. Arguably, some of those accused of baiting are in fact victims of baiting themselves. They are baited to go over a line and say something and someone then accuses them of baiting. Not so simple, is it? The other thing is that you can't have something that depends on the temperament of the person least likely to keep their cool. Things have been said to me that could be called baiting, but because I rarely take the bait, it doesn't get called out as such. Being able to say "no, you are taking this discussion in the wrong direction, we were talking about article X, now let's get back to that instead of throwing insults around", can be useful sometimes. Carcharoth (talk) 17:26, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Yup; I've been accused of baiting, myself. But I'm sure you can see that there is an inherent problem in setting any editor up as a target, and where baiting is really clear (and sometimes it's abundantly clear), no matter how merciful I usually am, I feel that it should be dealt with much more firmly than it usually is. Pesky (talk) 18:18, 9 April 2012 (UTC) It was not really clear. The so-called "baiting" was a more than reasonable reply (read it!) to the equally wild metaphor of ritual slaughter. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:34, 9 April 2012 (UTC) User_talk:Courcelles recall Hello. User:BarkingFish has backed out of the recall as the initiator and asked that someone else fill his position. Could you please consider taking the role as the initiator rather than a certifier? I am not even sure a new initiator is needed at the moment, but if a recall were to progress it would probably be less controversial if there were someone in that role.--v/r - TP 20:41, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Oooh, eeeek! I felt really dreadful even feeling it was the right thing to do to certify ... I've always had a vast amount of respect (and affection) for Courcelles, and (if he cares) he must already be feeling that I've dropped a five-ton heap of bricks on him :o( If nobody else would do it, and it were absolutely necessary, then I would, but I would feel really uncomfortable if were "mine", as it were. And I'm probably already in the unique position of having both a Civility Police label and an Incivility Enabler label around my neck (which takes some doing!). Pesky (talk) 20:59, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Well you do rather involve yourself in drama with a passion, don't you? With both Malleus and KW as mentees, I don't imagine it being easy. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:17, 9 April 2012 (UTC) I don't think of them as mentees, I just think sometimes I might be able to bridge a few gaps here and there. I could be wrong, but permit me my illusions ... I actually hate dramah, but I hate even worse to see people suffer unjustly and / or unnecessarily. Sometimes one just can't win, which is when I get really torn. It would be so much easier just to sit and watch, and not try and do anything, but that would also feel cowardly. Maybe I should be a coward more often. Pesky (talk) 21:29, 9 April 2012 (UTC) I do think you made a mistake this time. Being afraid to be thought of as being afraid, is perhaps a sign that the sensible side of you knows that you do not need to jump in with both feet. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:32, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Ah, Jeeze ... I don't actually worry much whether other people think of me as a coward, or as being afraid. It's when something affects how I think of myself that it gets to me. I'm the only person that I absolutely have to live with for the rest of my life. Pesky (talk) 09:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC) On the question of mentoring, I really wonder if something has been missed here. Blocks of Malleus, and (to a much more limited extent) blocks of KW, are instantly taken from "someone chooses to block" to "OMG someone will now de-admin themselves to remove the block", or at least some similar huge fuss and lack of consensus. With other editors who display similar lack of maturity or potty-mouth syndrome, a whole flock of people appear, helpfully suggesting that the block should be lifted without (m)any conditions other than an agreement to mentoring from an experienced editor, and the block is soon lifted with consensus and happy twittering. But when it's Malleus or KW who get blocked, this option is off the cards? I think both or either of them could learn a lot from being mentored by a calmer editor, for example Worm, who is already recognised and applauded for his work in dealing with editors who are constructive and have good faith, but lack maturity and the ability to contribute collaboratively. He might be able to work wonders - assuming he has time! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:10, 9 April 2012 (UTC) I think we all know that suggesting mentoring to someone who has been around as long as Malleus would never come across as anything other than patronising. I can't assume as much for KW, but I really can't see him reacting to that suggestion positively either. It's not been suggested for a reason. Bunnies! Leave a message 22:12, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Also your implication that Malleus cannot work collaboratively isn't exactly founded in fact. Sure, he clashes, but he can collaborate like nobody's business - including with people he's fallen out with in the past. Calling user's maturity into question isn't great form either. Bunnies! Leave a message 22:16, 9 April 2012 (UTC) I haven't called his maturity into question. In his scrabbling for hats, he twice applied for adminship on the English Misplaced Pages. On both occasions, the community felt that he lacked the maturity to carry out that role. Where next? Mentoring might help. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:26, 9 April 2012 (UTC) I reiterate: It would be seen as insulting to offer mentorship to someone that has been around as long as Malleus, and contributed so much. Also, having read his past RFAs, the problem was not maturity, the responses seemed to be along the lines of not having the right temperance. Although if you feel that this a good idea, why don't you suggest it on his talk, rather than here? Bunnies! Leave a message 22:31, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Also, "scrabbling for hats"? Both times he was nominated by respected users. It's not as if he has acted like he was desperate for some user rights. Well, quite, why does he apply for adminship twice before deciding that he refuses any user rights? It would be amusing if it wasn't so sad. I do feel badly for him, that's why I hoped that a more structured program might be able to help him. Thus far, he has responded well to Pesky's attempts to talk with him. As far as mentorship is concerned, so he's too important to need to listen to someone else? I don't see that ending well; and thus far, it hasn't. I've read his two RfAs, and lack of maturity was mentioned repeatedly in the Oppose column. I was just offering an alternative way forward. If the same treatment as is given to other editors who act in an immature way and can't resist pottymouth behaviour is something that he can't cope with, then there may be no way of helping him. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:39, 9 April 2012 (UTC) {(talk page stalker):::::Probably one of the most incendiary and, with all due respect, inane suggestions I have seen in a long time. For one thing, he is old enough to be one of Pesky's grandchildren's grandfather. I think you need to read a lot more of the background - several years - before throwing suggestions of lack or maturity and mentoring around. Just saying. Leaky Caldron 22:41, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Her grandchildren's grandfather? You're a lot of fun. I judge people by their behaviour, not by whose grandfather they are. Immature behaviour? Then there are some ways of dealing with it. Pesky knows a few. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:46, 9 April 2012 (UTC) In which case I suggest you leave it to her. Leaky Caldron 22:50, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Perhaps you could save the judging for a while and remember that you are dealing with grown, hardworking people who work on the same project as you - not patients or toddlers. Bunnies! Leave a message 22:50, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Thank you for your suggestion! I will indeed leave it to her, but I also augment her approach to it by making suggestions that have worked well with other editors that have exhibited pottymouth and immature behaviour. I remind you that neither Malleus nor KW are her mentees - yet. Hi, Bunnyperson - I have no idea which of you is grown or a patient or a toddler or anything else - please respect everyone equally according to their contributions. Pesky is a patient rather often, and would like all our support in that. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:56, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Sorry, but I'm really not quite sure how you manage to make all your messages sound so snide and condescending. Either way, if you think Malleus should be mentored, surely you should suggest it to him first, because he might not see it here. Bunnies! Leave a message 22:59, 9 April 2012 (UTC) He watchlists this page. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:02, 9 April 2012 (UTC) True, but he might not be checking his watchlist at the moment as he's left for now. Bunnies! Leave a message 23:04, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Oh, you don't think that's part of the drama drama drama game? You don't think he will be back really soon? Just like last time? And the time before? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:08, 9 April 2012 (UTC) I did say "for now". I can't predict someone's behaviour, he may come back, but for all I know he may not. I wouldn't be surprised if he's staying away from his computer for a time though, as I gather things like this are generally stressful. *shrug*. Bunnies! Leave a message 23:15, 9 April 2012 (UTC) That's probably a good idea. We're all here to help him out once he's ready to try the water again. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Hey, everyone, group hug? I can see why each of you is getting a bit het-up here, and I think it's probably one of those basic communication-misunderstanding things. I can see why Demi's words might come across as patronising, ill-thought-out, all that stuff, but I can also see through to what is actually meant, with all of you. All of you have the best of intentions in your hearts here, but, among us, we have some alternative-interpretations of some of the nuances of the words. I don't think Demi means the words in quite the way that they've been understood, but I can see that everyone here is meaning good things. The word "immature" gets used an awful lot as a cover-word for concepts that are hard to word really precisely (yes, it's mis-used in that way, but it's mis-used so commonly that its virtually "in common usage" with the other, nebulous, wossname-thingie which needs a different word, which is hard to think of ....) Please be gentle with each other; you're all good people :o) I can't think of a word for what it is that I try to do, but "mentor" doesn't quite fit the bill. I think the nearest I can get is just plain, old-fashioned, simple "friend". And sometimes I come across as the most unfriendly, nasty thing there can be. With 'celles, all I think is that he should re-run a re-confirmatory RfA, kinda-thing, possibly. I can't explain exactly why, it's too complex for my morphined brain to put into words. Pesky (talk) 07:09, 10 April 2012 (UTC) Group hugs aren't my style, but I certainly agree with Pesky here, this rhetoric isn't helping anyone. People seem to be talking at cross purposes, which is never useful. I don't mentor content creators, as I am not a natural content creator. I have to work very hard at it, and it usually needs a good copyedit when I'm done. So even if I were not extraordinarily busy, and these editors did actually want my mentorship and 100 other factors lined up, it's not something I'd consider. Worm · (talk) 09:42, 10 April 2012 (UTC) I'm not into Real-Life group hugs (way too intense, with people far too close into my personal space who I don't necessarily want to be there). But the "virtual group hug" is more like stepping back, taking a breather, each of us appreciating the good stuff in the others, and sharing a round of drinks. It's a "lack of enmity" thing. Kinda. If I had explicit permission from both KW and Malleus, I could write something here about the way I see stuff, but I wouldn't do it without that explicit permission. Pesky (talk) 10:05, 10 April 2012 (UTC) You may write whatever you like, with or without my permission, and I can't see KW being too bothered either. As for Demiurge's mentoring suggestion, well, it's simply beneath contempt as far as I'm concerned. Malleus Fatuorum 15:39, 10 April 2012 (UTC) Right, back to the drawing board we go, then! Glad you're editing again so soon, Malleus. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:59, 11 April 2012 (UTC) I'm not editing again, and if you see me editing any article in the future you have my permission to shoot me. I'm simply trying to help prevent what drove me away from driving others away; editors like you. Malleus Fatuorum 01:07, 11 April 2012 (UTC) That's very sweet of you, although I must say you're not doing very well at it so far. Perhaps it will get easier with practice. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 01:23, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Demi, big smack! Assume the position; that was unworthy of you. :o( Pesky (talk) 08:36, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Do you really believe that you're continuing hypocritical obnoxiousness is appropriate on this talk page? Malleus Fatuorum 01:26, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Let me remind you that Pesky has labelled this a "mandatory truce zone". If you want fight, and I'm more than ready to fight with you, then let's do it elsewhere. Malleus Fatuorum 01:31, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Malleus is right; no place for battles here. Demi, with even the best of good intentions, you have a tendency to come across as being more confrontational and wossname (can't think of the word) than you probably actually are. (And you're a bit too trigger-happy with the sanrkasm. Hugz; behave!) I can quite see your point that, unusuaqlly, nobody has ever suggested mentoring for KW and Malleus (this is quite correct, nobody has), and to the best of my knowledge nobody ever has. But it's actually not terribly unusual, and various people have hit the nail on the head as to the reason (probable) why nobody has suggested it. It simply would be wholly inappropriate; though I think if MF could actually have been a 100% telepath and read what you were (probably!) trying to say, he maybe wouldn;t have worded is as "beneath contempt". Maybe he would, I don't know – nobody is a 100% telepath in here. If we were, there would never be a misunderstanding on any level. I don't want anybody to fight here, at all, ever, but I would like people to be able to discuss ideas in an understanding way, trying to see deep into the heart of the person behind the idea, and putting all negative emotions aside for the duration ... fat chance! People are emotional things, and WP editors are passionately emotional people. Could we end this section here ... how I see it (in my own bizarre way, which of course I can't guarantee is right) is below. Pesky (talk) 08:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Yes, I think it's best to draw it to a close. One thing, though, is that much better than demarcating Misplaced Pages into places to "fight" and places not to fight, would be not bringing (or encouraging!) the WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality in the first place. That way, everyone (or those that want to) can focus on building an encyclopedia instead. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 08:55, 11 April 2012 (UTC) I would suggest that the entirety of[REDACTED] should be a place not to fight, not to make snarky comments and not to act in a battleground manner. In other words, none of the above is helpful. Worm · (talk) 08:59, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Big waffly essay on how I see it We all (I think) are born and go through life thinking that what our own mind does is "normal", and therefore everyone else's mind should work in exactly the same way, and be capable of exactly the same things, as ours does / is. Minds are invisible. Bodies are different; we can all see that bodies are different, we've been able to do so since we were able to focus at that distance, we identify people by the differences in their bodies and faces. So it's inbuilt in us to see that it's perfectly normal for everyone to have different bodies, with different attributes, and different voices, with different depths and timbres. As we get older, we learn that people don't always physically see and hear things the same way we do. We learn that people can be blind, or long-sighted, or short-sighted, or colour-blind, or whatever ... or that we are, and other people have 20/20 vision. As we get older, we learn that dogs have a sense of smell thousands (millions?) of times more acute than ours is, and that they can probably "see" the world of scent in as much vivid detail as we see the world of light. We can watch them doing this, finding and tracking things using scents hours or days old. These are learned things. But we rarely ever get the opportunity to learn that the human mind is just the same in its variations as the human body is. We rarely (if ever) get "officially taught" to internalise the concept that minds have different capabilities, and that we can't expect people to be able to do everything that we can do. It's obvious to us that someone can't help not being as tall as us, or as slim as us, or having colour-blindness, or a different colour hair, and that it doesn't mean they are deliberately setting out to be annoying or irritating or could "get better if they only tried to". We've learned not to get angry with someone for being less physically able than we are due to some physical limitation. A trapeze artist in a circus can see quite clearly that most people can't do what he does, and that most people probably can't ever learn to do what he does. It's not just a matter of "trying harder" or "learning skills". A chunkily-built and inherently unsupple person is never, never going to be able to learn to be a consummately-skilled trapeze artist. and they can't help it. They're not doing it on purpose to annoy the trapeze artist. That's just the way they are. Some people with outstanding brains (and I'm including Malleus and Kiefer here, as well as several others) just hagve trouble understanding that when someone is seeming to be so bloody stupid, arseholeish, pathetic and all that, there's a good chance that they can't help it. Some people are just naturally lacking in what it takes to see right through to what is so clear, and so obvious, to people like MF and KW, and it really feels as though they must be doing it on purpose. (Of course, sometimes some of them are. But not all of them, all of the time.) When you really feel that someone is going out of their way to be obnoxious, it makes you angry. That's normal. It's a normal human reaction. All that people with truly outstanding and right-at-the-end-of-the-bell-curve minds, which think in less-than-usual ways, which have lightning-fast comprehension and clarity in some areas, need to do, is to remember that "normal" people can't help not having the same kind of brain. If we/they tweaked the perception a smidge and decided to view "normal people" as being "comparatively disabled" instead (they can't help it), maybe the anger and irritation would take much, much longer to kick in. People with truly outstanding minds and thought-processes tend to think that what they are is normal, on an internalised level. Minds are invisible. We can't see the differences, and we having nothing, nothing whatever, in our own experience, to compare them with. Pesky (talk) 08:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Malleus and Kiefer (and others like you): you have the ability to "see" mentally with the naked eye (as it were) things that other people can't see without an electron microscope. You can see why something is areseholish. But not everyone else can do that. People genuinely can't see why what they did is arseholish or cuntish. They can't see it any more easily than red-green colour-blind people can see the numbers in those colour-blindness tests ... which means that, when they can't see it, they can't ever understand why what seemed perfectly OK to them is not perfectly OK to others. They just don;t have the perception that you have. Pesky (talk) 08:46, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Well said Pesky. I might point out that it's a two-way street and that arseholeishness should not beget arseholeishness, but I think that point has been said far too many times, albeit without the "word" arseholeishness. Worm · (talk) 09:04, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Yes, far too many times, and nearly always just because one side or the other can't "see" something! The more I look at problems on Misplaced Pages, the more I become convinced that at least 75% of them stem either from plain misunderstandings, or some people simply not being able to "see" what the other side is "seeing". If only I could wave a magic wand and make us all pure telepaths, so that we could understand each others' abilities, strengths and weaknesses better! Everyone (well, everyone reasonable) has no trouble making allowances for someone in a wheelchair not being able to climb mountains. The mind thing is exactly the same, but invisible. And everyone thinks that what they personally can and can;t do is "normal", and everyone else is being either deliberately and wilfully obnoxious, or is "abnormal". Pesky (talk) 11:06, 11 April 2012 (UTC) I like that. I too feel that the majority of personal conflicts on Misplaced Pages stem either from plain misunderstandings, or some people simply not being able to "see" what the other side is "seeing". And the written conversation format doesn't help to "see" others. —MistyMorn (talk) 12:38, 11 April 2012 (UTC) One of the things that often amuses me is that some persons supposed to be total opposites in both characteristics and views, eventually turn out to be more similar to each other than to anyone else. I'd go into more details but I think that might be better off-wiki. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:27, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Hugz Demi; I'm very fond of you, too, and you've been incredibly good to me when things were rough. I think, underneath, in ways we don't expect, loads of humans (despite their differences) are actually very similar! I bet if all of us here could sit together in my local pub, share a really good local beer, and some sunshine, and excellent pub food, we'd actually all get on like a house on fire. Everyone has the occasional glitch. There's no need to start battles over occasional glitches. Pesky (talk) 03:31, 12 April 2012 (UTC) Philosophy for today - words chain us It's a lot easier dealing with animals! Words are strange things. Words have so many meanings; you only have to look in a really good thesaurus to see some of the very varying nuances of a word, by reading all the other words which are kinda-synonymous but don't mean exactly the same thing. They don't "feel right". All a word is, is a kind of label for a concept, and concepts are incredibly complex things with rainbow-colours of harmonics around them. A word is never big enough, full enough, to describe the concept. It's a convenience label, a kind of shorthand-wossname, and the same "label" can be a convenience label for a whole heap of concepts, of each of which it only highlights one small facet. Words are supposed to facilitate our understanding, deeply, of things. But, so often, instead of doing that, all they do is chain us in, remove the rainbow-hued, multi-faceted, multi-tonal wholeness of the concept. All cats are mammals, but not all mammals are cats. Cats have a whole mass of things in common with dogs, but they're not dogs. A word doesn't really cut it, apart from when it's something like "cat", when everyone understands the wholeness of the concept of "cat". And people have different experiences of cats, which colours their own personal understanding of what "cat" means. It has differing emotional values. Some people hear the word, or think "cat", and feel full of cuddly affection. Some feel filled with hatred, contempt, or terror. If the word "cat" (and all its synonyms) hadn't been invented, nor the noun for any other of the small furry mammals, it would be really hard to describe a cat in such a way that your description couldn't also mean "dog", or "rabbit", or "fox". You can make it more easy by saying "it makes a noise like meow". Fine - that makes it clearer. But there's a whole lot more to the difference between a cat and a dog than a "meow" or a "woof". "It's fluffy." Yes, lots of things are fluffy. Some of those things are cats. Dammit, a slice of mouldy bread is "fluffy" or "furry", but it's a different kind of furry, without the connotations of "cuddly"! Adjectives are bastards, really, because they can apply to so many, many different things. Most concepts can only be described well by a noun which means exactly that thing and nothing else. And most of the nouns haven't been invented, and never will be. This is what chains us. An adjective can restrict our perception, instead of enhancing it the way it should do. It's when adjectives start to be used as nouns, as labels, that we fall foul of this one. Pesky (talk) 07:33, 10 April 2012 (UTC) The word block is really really wrong for[REDACTED] when it is a 'temporary' block. because it gives a mixed message which people do not understand, worse still is when they call a 'temporary' block just a block instead. That is confusing, uncivil and drives good editors away, admins should not be allowed to say the entire community doesn't want you here, because it might just be that admin. Slow down should be the wording and the message. It's accurate, polite and has the actual message in it. Why use words that do not convey the actual message ? The message is Slow down, cool off, think about what you have done, then we want you back with us. Penyulap ☏ Expanding: you know that game "Twenty Questions"? If you don't here's a rough idea. A person thinks of a "thing", and the rest have to guess what it is, just by asking questions about it, with yes/no answers (and often you can;t even give a yes/no, it's more of a "sometimes" or "could be".) If you play it properly, and don't allow anything apart from "yes" or "no", the asker loses out on that turn to ask a question. Often it starts with the "thing" being roughly categorised into animal, vegetable, mineral, or abstract. Questions can be things like "Is it shiny?" "Is it hard?" "Is it bigger than a football?" You can tweak the game by allowing unlimited questions, not just twenty, in which the askers have to guess what you meant. And sometimes you can ask a hundred or more questions, and still nobody has guessed correctly. That's how complex a noun is. And if you play the advanced game, questions aren't allowed to use nouns themselves, so you can't get into a fractal-type classification system by asking "Is it an emotion?" or "Is it a mammal?" Pesky (talk) 07:49, 10 April 2012 (UTC) Q. Is it that thing that you can sit on, sleep on, and brush your teeth with ? Penyulap ☏ No, it's not "your hands"! Pesky (talk) 13:27, 10 April 2012 (UTC) Ha! too many ideas, I would have gone for "a chair, a bed and a toothbrush" but the question posed in pop culture is 'what can you' rather than 'is it that thing. meh. Is it fast ? Penyulap ☏ ummm ... seing as how I have forgotten what it was I thought of, I can't answer! Pesky (talk) 08:56, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Have you seen this?

Hello Pesky. We obviously disagree strongly on the Courcelles issue, but leaving that to one side, I was wondering if your relationship with Abhijay/Soviet King extends to formal mentoring, or just informal advice. I'm not sure if you've had a chance yet to see this — do we think it's a good idea for SK to be getting involved in adminny stuff when he himself doesn't exactly have a great recent past? —Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 12:03, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't do any kind of formal mentoring, at all, just try to provide a bit of friendly help and / or advice, particularly if people are anywhere on the autism spectrum. I'll take a look ... Pesky (talk) 13:22, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, interesting. Normally I'd say "only with vast care and attention" (if at all), but (provided that everyone else's homework has been done correctly – and I haven't checked, myself, on that issue) it would appear to be that in this instance SK is dead right, and bringing this to a wider audience was the right thing to do. SK, that's not in any way saying you have carte blanche to do anything which seems to you immediately to be right! But you do seem to be right on this occasion, so well done! Pesky (talk) 13:25, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Strange Passerby, I would like to reiterate that no formal mentoring will be provided at this stage. Pesky is my new advisor, and you are not on my case anymore. So please, go and find something else to do. Pesky is there, and if I'm doing something, he/she will look into it by herself ok? IMO, you've just been making a huge issue about me ever since we both met at WP:ITN/C. I'm not hurting anyone neither am I causing problems. True I did meet up with mishaps, but that's like when, March, get over it. I am human, I make errors. You are not an admin/bureaucrat to enforce me what I can or cannot do on Misplaced Pages. You've already allocated enough drama for the year, and wasted enough. Simply mind your business, and grow up. Soviet King 09:53, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

SK, where I run into you (and ANI may well be one of those places), I am as welcome as anyone else to comment on a thread you may start. This includes bringing it to the notice of your "advisor". If you want to go back to being uncivil and hiding behind your autism/Aspergers again... —Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 10:54, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

SK, you've slipped into that autie-trap again! Strange Passerby's question to me was perfectly reasonable, and perfectly acceptable, and Misplaced Pages is everyone's business here! Instead of letting that autie-defensive thing take over (and trust me, I know why we A-spectrum folks can feel so persecuted and defensive ... it's very often because all our old emotional baggage includes actually having been persecuted and needing to defend ourselves), the autie-trap is to go from that into hypervigilance (which, if you read it, will ring many, many bells for you!) ... so, instead of letting that take over, read and learn by heart (and I know you can do this!) WP:AGF! Telling Strange Passerby to WP:BUTTOUT, mind his own business and (worst of all) "grow up", is just not on! It's not allowed, OK? Now, hugz, take a cookie, sit somewhere quiet and learn that AGF thing, and know that I don't hate or dislike you, just some of the things you sometimes do, which you can learn ways to avoid, because you're smart, OK? Pesky (talk) 11:37, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

NF Pony research

See this? What do you think? Want to add a bit on it to the NF Pony article? Montanabw 20:18, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Wow! How fascinating! I wonder if it's only in one of the "foreign" lines? I don;t recall ever hearing of a case locally. I'll have another read through and possibly add something in (unless someone else gets to it first). Of course a line with that would be unlikely to last long in natural breeding conditions like the Forest itself, I'd think; one of the instances where stud-based breeding is much less likely to weed it out without human intervention. Pesky (talk) 08:54, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

 Done I'm considering putting that up for GA, as well. My mind is not as clear as it could be, so I'll think about it for a while. Pesky (talk) 15:07, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Hassling Auntie Pesky....again

		The Minor Barnstar
		The minor barnstar was too big

This was too big, but I want to thank you seriously for something,

		the Very modest barnstar
		In recognition of the little things that you do.

and the modest barnstar i already gave you, and it's still too big.

miniature barnstar

the minature barnstar is about right, to say thanks for putting up with a pesky editor who likes to ask about their artwork now and then. It's not quite finished yet, it all needs a cleanup. when I thought to get your opinion, I also though to thank you for putting up with my hassling you :) Penyulap ☏

Penyulap, the chance to sit here and gaze in amazement at the awesome things your mind can do is honestly not a hassle! You're incredible. Your anims lighten my day. I'm perpetually gobsmacked at your abilities. Pesky (talk) 08:51, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

P.S. By the way, it's miniature :o) Pesky (talk) 11:41, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Not when I'm making spelling mistakes it isn't. :P Penyulap ☏

fixed the anime, it's good to go. Penyulap ☏ 00:07, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Whack!!!

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly.

For this, after this(& in line with this). Now take yer lump: and try to call it better next time! ;> Doc talk 07:03, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

I can see where you're coming from, but I think it's possible you misunderstood me (not what I said, but me as a person). Pesky (talk) 07:45, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Nah - I have nothing against you as a person (certainly), or as an "editing person" (that I know of). I am always open to a good, sound trouting myself, and I even have a userbox for it. No hard feelings: just exercising a tradition! Cheers :> Doc talk 07:49, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

I have nothing against upholding non-harmful traditions ;P I just wish I could "fix" the entire world (except that I wouldn't want the responsibility ... heck, I don't even want the responsibility of being a Nadmin!) Pesky (talk) 08:24, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

You sure have a strange definition of "fix." 28bytes (talk) 10:07, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, I think Pesky's idea of fixing the world is pretty standard - improve all things she considers problems. Unfortunately, the trap appears when you realise that it's the things Pesky considers problems that she wants to fix. I personally think Barts1a's kittle was a little more obnoxious because it did not explain the meaning behind the message, something Pesky at least tried to. Worm · (talk) 10:13, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I will agree with you that Barts1a's was more obnoxious. 28bytes (talk) 10:29, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

28Bytes, please don't byte ("a little more obnoxious"). I tried (and failed, obviously) to put what I was really feeling into words. Pesky (talk) 10:40, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, in case I wasn't clear, I don't think your message to Courcelles went anywhere beyond "less than optimal". I just consider it a Pesky thing to do. I've spoken to Bart, and I don't believe his message was meant as obnoxious, though he now understands why it could be interpreted that way. Anyway, will wander off now :) Worm · (talk) 10:51, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

As the self-appointed trout-delivery-system in both cases, I must reiterate that I have absolutely nothing against anyone for anything that they have done, and I am not trying to play any sort of "blame-game" or be divisive with my fish-slappings. We all mess up sometimes; and Lord knows I have, and plenty of times. A "questionable" decision or two does not always equal a "questionable" editor. No offense, or characterization, is meant to be implied by my "whacking". Please whack the ever-loving bejeezus out of me, should I need it! Any of you! :> Doc talk 11:00, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

The biggest, baddest problem was what it's always been ... if someone else had said that, there would hardly have been a raised eyebrow. Far, far worse things were said by others on the same day. It wasn't what was said that was "the problem"; it was just that it was Malleus who said it. People notice much, much more when it's someone like Malleus or KW who says it. That's my big, big bugbear with the civility policy. I think the entire place should be friendly, and civil, and all that. But it's much more important, a far higher priority, and defending a much bigger principle, that everyone should be treated just the same. I'm principle-centred, not incivility-enabling. And the principle of justice takes priority, with me, over the principle of "being civil". Pesky (talk) 06:22, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Since yesterday I have been trying to paWn the image for 500 gold, but the commons wizard has won this round. I can't upload a 4.5MB GIF file in the appropriate definition. I have no idea why (sarcasm). But there is no troubleshooting guide. (this image is no comment on the text part of this section, but I would expect that is obvious to the wise) Anyhow here is the CRAPPY VERSION YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN LOOK AT. CLOSE YOUR EYES AND DO NOT LOOK.

File:PenPe Squarium low resolution.gif

I'm not happy with all the technical glitches I had with this, not happy at all. This is the low resolution version, and even the proper nice one has glitches as you can see on this one, but meh. Anyhow, a bit tired of the fight. IT'S OK to open your eyes now and continue reading the rest of the page. I put it away as it is very big for a talkpage, megabytes of connection-choking junk. Penyulap ☏ 21:21, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

"WTF does 'principle-centred' really mean?"

OK, it goes like this. We're "centred" on the things which are really, really important to us. Being principle-centred means that we do things, and judge things, by the light of principles which we've decided for ourselves. It means that principles are more important than individual persons; so we defend the principle, and not the individual person. Sometimes, to defend the principle, you find yourself "defending" your worst enemy (it's not the word I really mean, but it'll do) and "opposing" your best friend (again, not the word I really mean, but it'll do).

That means that during the course of the same discussion, you can apparently be switching sides from one person to the other, which is really hard for people to get a handle on when they're trying to work out "whose side you're on".

As soon as you move away from "defending the person" to "defending a principle", you then have to look at what the principles are, and prioritise them. Some principles are much more important than others are (this is something you have to decide for yourself, always). So you defend the principles in order of priority.

This can be really, really, really hard for other people to understand. But that's what being principle-centred means, in a nutshell. Pesky (talk) 07:08, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Oh,Oh, (hand in air) exibit A, Penyulap, I do this all the time with the same 'great' results. I can find lots of examples for that. I doubt there are many people at all who 'get me'. I don't like people who are not principle centered. They'll stand by and watch someone rob or set fire to you, and when you complain about it they are like 'you really should be more positive, I don't think what your saying is very nice at all' and entirely ignore that someone is setting you on fire with petrol, robbing you, whatever. They hide in wiki policy which says they have done nothing wrong at all. Penyulap ☏

The down-side is that being principle-centred sometimes means you're upsetting someone you care about, in order to defend a bigger principle. The reason it's a down side is choosing between staying in the "temporary comfort zone" and betraying your principles, and then feeling wretched and a failure, or doing something you really don't want to do, because not doing it causes much more long-term "discomfort zone" stuff, which never, ever leaves you. It's why conscientious objectors went to prison instead of to war. Principles are more important than personal freedoms. Pesky (talk) 17:26, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

..and freedom is more important than life most of the time, or at least the prospect of it. Being wild and caged at the same time doesn't work. A life without freedom, to be domesticated like a donkey, well, it's not acceptable sometimes. (braveheart movie?) The rulers do go to a lot of trouble to raise trouble-free batches of slaves. Hmm, I like the matrix. But then, who doesn't.

So which one of us is the last samurai ? MMmm yummy food, yummy life. To get into the Delorean and live in a nice century, that'd be cool. We should stop with the computer and get to work around the house building a time machine. Penyulap ☏

Talkback

Hope your health is improving 100 fold every day. I replied to your kind comment on my talk. Best wishes and all. ```Buster Seven Talk 13:27, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

100 fold would be nice! ;P Doc has now prescribed me diazepam to take at night as a muscle-relaxant, so that my stupid (overworked!) shoulder muscles don;t go into that rigid, rock-hard, on-fire spasm thing and wake me at 4am ... last night was the first night with it, and it made a heck of a difference! Not perfect, but so much better than it has been :D Pesky (talk) 17:21, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Oooowwh, the kind of pain that is worse than can't-go-to-sleep pain is wake-up-in-the-night pain. That's no fun, that is really bad, a struggle to know what is going on as you are waking up. not good. Penyulap ☏ 21:23, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Night pain always breaks through in my dreams before it wakes me; when I had huge trouble with my Achilles tendons (before they were both operated on) I used to dream of being caught by the ankles by sharks, or stepping into man-traps, and things like that. Now, with the shoulder, it's dreams of being set on fire there, or having a huge predator get its massive teeth into the top of my shoulder ... so I always know what woke me! Pesky (talk) 05:24, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

There have been times in my motley medical history when the pain's been so bad that my entire body has gone into spasm, and I can't even turn over to reach the painkillers ... sometimes I've had to get my Other Half to syringe-feed me with morphine because I literally can't move. Fortunately, that one doesn't happen often. Pesky (talk) 07:10, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Can't take away the pain, but try to cheer you up a bit ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:17, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Wow! How amazing! As I've just said on Malleus's talk, this morning I am faced with the choice of editing under the influence of either pain or opiates, but at least I have a choice this morning! As the pain is tolerable, I'm avoiding the opiates for as long as I can (don't want to become reliant on them!) I'm hoping to be opiate-free all day, today :D Pesky (talk) 07:30, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Wishing you the best for that! The talk you mentioned - I don't even understand the words. So, instead of more arguments, I published nice fact, composed and sourced by the unwanted writer. Please feel free to show them around ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:07, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

The simple fact that they are here means that quite a few people have been shown them! I have quite a lot of people who watch my talk page but don't necessarily contribute to it. Pesky (talk) 08:13, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the hosting! You are precious! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:53, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

It worked! Thanks! see my user/talk and thanks again for the spirit of civility, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:02, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Edits. Will try and get the Centijimbos.--Gilderien Talk|Contribs 09:07, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

88 watchers!--Gilderien Talk|Contribs 09:10, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

• Pesky, mine is 101 and 3.9 centijimbos... I can't recall right now but I remember another editor having something like 250+ watchers~! *yikes* (Update: After checking, it is User:Baseball Bugs‎ with 282 watchers and 10.8 centijimbos!)--Dave 09:13, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
• The list is here.--Gilderien Talk|Contribs 09:16, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

• The list don't look too complete, as Bugs and me were left out~! --Dave 09:20, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

I added me! Had to work out how the linky think went (copy, analyze, tweak, paste, get it wrong, forgot bit, tweak again, seems to have worked now .....). It would be cool if the list were automated ... now who, among my watchers, could write a script to do that, so it constantly updates? Pesky (talk) 09:34, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

I could get approval if required and run a bot for that, if someone wants to write the code initially, I can tinker and maintain it after that. Also, the number of watchers can be, and is, manipulated by many users. Makes no difference though, as it is easy to judge if it is correct with your own calculation of Charm plus Infamy multiplied by Time. If the number of watchers doesn't reflect (C+I) x T then you it indicates having a look at S, the editors likely-hood to use socks. Either way, it's like drugs in sport, it's got nothing to do with the athlete when they do that, it's a battle of the chemists. And just like real sports, there are those who have no desire to be compared to Jimbo, so the list is not automated. Penyulap ☏

Out of the blue hello~!

• Two things I need to tell you, the first is methinks you really need to archive your talk page soon as it took me puter a wee bit longer to load this page; the second is about this test, I scored 25~! Problem is, my wife being an educator was of the opinion that I'm very ADHD at times and with this latest test, she's telling me that I maybe a wee bit of HFA, as she noticed (through her observations) that I oftentimes edited WP with an almost one-track-mind. What gives~? --Dave 08:34, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi there! My page is supposed to archive itself, but for some reason that doesn't always appear to be working! I shall have to go and do that manual-archiving tweaky thing again, I can tell! An awful lot of A-spectrum people either are, or are viewed as, being ADD/AHDH/OCD (and a number of other things as well). I think, with us, it's not so much attention-deficit, as attention mega-focus on the one thing we want to be focussing on. So if someone wants to get our attention onto something they want it to be focussed on, it can seem as though we have attention-deficit. Does that make sense? Aspie/autie people can be quite incredibly intense, which can come across as hyperactive – and yes, we can be hyperactive, too. In the past, I had incredible trouble "interacting" with people; I never knew what to say, what to do, how to "join in", and all that. I "learned" to do the chatty, bubbly, outgoing thing, but I don't know how to get it right, so I'm absolutely sure that I totally over-do it, in an over-compesatory way of not wanting to be judged as aloof, emotionless, distanced, stand-offish, and all those other things which we A-spectrum people are so often misjudged as being. After several decades, I still haven't got the balance right! I do try, as so many of us do, but it's one of those things which comes completely instinctively to neurotypicals and just doesn't to A-spectrum people. Learning interactive skills, almost parrot-fashion, is never going to be the same as having them hardwired-in to the brain. All we can do is our best, and all the people around us can do is remember that we need downtime more than they do, and we need to "shut the world out" more than they do, because too much of it is literally painful to us. We see so much of it in so much greater intensity. For us, the Real World can be like having the volume on the hi-fi turned up way too loud is for the neurotypicals. It's like having crumbs in the bed which you just can't get rid of. Pesky (talk) 08:43, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Here's something for the neurotypicals to ponder: someone once asked me "How can you stand there staring at that tree for so long?" The answer: But it's not "that tree". It's ... look at that sparrow, that leaf, that twig, the way the light catches on that shiny thing a magpie probably put there; the way those two branches make different shapes when the wind catches them, the pattern in the bark just there, that squirrel (and the other one I've just noticed), that blackbird's nest, the mistletoe on that top branch ... and that's just the beginning. And, for us A-spectrum people, looking at the neurotypicals, it's a question of "How can you possibly not see all that stuff?" Pesky (talk) 08:58, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I just took it and scored 14. Only four of my answers were in the "Definitely disagree" column, and none were in the "Definitely Agree", leaving all the rest in the middle two columns. Was I too "wishy-washy" with my answers? I don't know if this test measures that. Doc talk 09:07, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

• Precisely! "How can you possibly not see all that stuff?" That would be me answer to me wife at times and she's the OCD type... man, talk about like attract like~! But seriously, we're just glad that our kids are not like us in those ways. --Dave 09:09, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Doc, I think possibly that neurotypicals don't have the same levels of strongly-agree and strongly-disagree. Maybe that's how the test works. Maybe neurotypicals don't get the same cringe-or-leap response that we A-spectrum people do, to certain stimuli. @Dave I actually rather like having offspring and their offspring who fall into the same area of the spectrum! It's the anticipatory thing of ... wow! Which thing is he/she going to be a genius at? And yet one of my children (a mum herself) scored only 6 ... way, way down at the other end of the continuum! Which probably explains why she and I sometimes have trouble understanding what the other one is getting at! Pesky (talk) 09:15, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

• Having difficulty understanding each other~? Tell me about it... because my oldest boy, at 10 this year, always gave me that facepalm expression when he doesn't get us. Well, the in-laws was saying something like generation gap but your answer to me just now probably nailed it squarely. --Dave 09:26, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

At 10, he's old enough to understand, if you talk to him about it :D He can probably understand colour-blindness, yes? Or tone-deafness? I'm sure there are books around to help kids understand how autism-spectrum stuff affects people, how it works, how to make it work ... the way people just see the world differently from each other, and how to understand that. Pesky (talk) 09:38, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

• In my castle, my missus is the minister for home and foreign affairs while I'm the minister of defence and finance so she deals with my boy instead, I'll just sit by and listen/watch so that he knows that we are united. Kids these days are not like us from back then... sometimes, we get swamped by the heap of questions from the boys. *sigh* --Dave 16:44, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

My friend and I used to sit in a garden in sight of an ivy-covered tree, where dozens of doves were always busy. That friend grew up far away, in a different climate, where there are the same doves, but the doves there are much thinner because of the climate. My friend used to hunt them with a slingshot for food, so I understood how much they couldn't look away from the tree. All they could see was a tree full of plump roast chicken dinners, quite teasingly animated. Other people really couldn't see a thing.

I did that test just then and got 33, but I expect it changes over time, and changes according to mind-mode too. What is the maximum score on that test anyhow, it doesn't say where you are on a graph. Penyulap ☏

It's likely to change a little from day to day, depending on mood (how you "see yourself" that day, really). The questions are supposed to be answered on the basis of "what you're like on average". Penyulap - I score higher than you do ;P But there's an enormous range of people, and it's not a success-or-failure scale, it's just a descriptive one. Pesky (talk) 10:33, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

I just did it again and got 40, which is still middle of the same category, so it doesn't change much, but maybe others can change theirs easier. Penyulap ☏

You can't really change the things you really like or dislike much. What you can change is your ability to cope with things, and your understanding of other people, and how you choose to react to things. You can't make yourself a neurotypical if you're on the autism spectrum, but you can tweak what you do by knowing your strengths and weaknesses, and making allowances for the fact that neurotypicals just can't see the world in quite the same way. And trust that they can make allowances for you, too, and be forgiving when they can't. They can't help it ... Pesky (talk) 10:44, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, I am grateful to the few who have flexible minds. Penyulap ☏

The key is 90% education. Whenever anyone has enough understanding of something, the flexibility is part of the understanding. Most people are just unaware of the differences, so of course they have trouble making allowances. Pesky (talk) 10:59, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

the education part is such a total battle. I don't want help, but the barnstar talkpage is a classic, I see the page is a honeypot for people who have made a barnstar, and there is a mousetrap hidden there, and they get reverted. so I want a editnotice to redirect them, and suddenly everyone agrees, but then they can't see how to direct that kind of editor, they want a pointless editnotice really, it's like i have to explain everything, but it's such a battle to find the words or the way. sigh. people should just trust the person who can see clearly to lead them, I always do, if someone is an expert, I leave it to them. Penyulap ☏

LOL I just picked a few RL people I don't particularly like, mixed them, ran an emulation of them doing that test, and 'they' scored 5. If it were just one I could go and slap them ! lol Penyulap ☏

Ahh, that's a very common trap for people to fall into! Remember you can never really know how someone else actually feels about something, so it's impossible to guess how they would have answered the questions! And our differences – at least those which we can't help – should never make us want to go and slap someone! Would you want to slap someone for being in a wheelchair? Pesky (talk) 08:19, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

• Surprise, surprise... my missus took the test and she scored 30~! As for me, it is 28 now... someone's not laughing at me this time~! --Dave 08:34, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Ha! Auties are much more compatible and lovable than the homogenized masses. They are more like jigsaw pieces than scrabble pieces. I wouldn't slap Steven Hawkins, but I'd sure give him several lectures on many of his ridiculous wrong ideas, that's for sure. BAH! Penyulap ☏

Oh and it wasn't the wheelies I wanted to slap, it was the alcoholic WWFers I was aiming for. I am so naughty. Penyulap ☏

"Seek first to understand, and then to be understood." Discussion is better than lecture. Ask him why he thinks the idea is right. Pesky (talk) 09:01, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

• Ringing in from Lithgow, NSW? Better get an Admin to erase that IP info before someone sees it~! As for wrong ideas, try watching the movie - "As Good as It Gets"~! --Dave 09:03, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

That doesn't worry me, there are no secrets on the internet, how many times have hackers proved this beyond all doubt. It's quite funny actually, there are so many times editors may as well just sign their name onto their edit, as I can tell who it is by what it is they are editing and how they are editing. Actually I think ducks are part of policy, so I'm not the only one, but I do have very big eyes for that and see clearer than most. Those hash secure things for ID if your account is hacked are kind of pointless for people like me, I mean you just have a 5 minute competition for hilarious anims on a arbitrarily chosen topic and presto, if someone can out-me me, then they deserve to win and I'll stand aside, two me's is better than one. But most of my critics get hammered by bots so I'm quite comfortable. I have seen as good as it gets, I like that movie too, the guy is as much an ahole as pretty much any random passerby where he lives, but just doesn't keep it to himself....and he is proven to be such a sweetie in the end too. Happily ever after. Penyulap ☏

Actually it's pretty easy to pretend that you are in another country, or whatever. Penyulap ☏

Wow look at how fast jet aeroplanes travel these days, now I'm in Bekasi, Indonesia ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.131.152.89 (talk) 11:02, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

And my baggage with laptop went somewhere else. *sigh* isn't it always the way, do you think that my laptop will be aright ? still simple tricks are no substitute for wit, or having good platform in a debate, cheating is just admitting that you lost. Penyulap ☏

Pesky I think the professor falls down on his arguments because he has copied and built upon the mistakes of others. It's always better to build your fundamental knowledge yourself, and sure, learn from others, but know the difference. I like the work of tesla, because he goes so far beyond all of his peers, so far beyond all known scientific thought, into places that have no jargon, because nobody has ever been there before. People criticizing him as being crazy because he can't express himself in regular words is just admitting they can't follow him where he goes, and they need jargon just to pretend to know what he is going on about. (not that I understand what he was on about, I reach into those areas but nowhere near where he went) Penyulap ☏

Did you know?

• Misplaced Pages:Long-term abuse/JarlaxleArtemis
• Quad calling Quin, are you aware that JarlaxleArtemis (aka grawp) is an Autie gone astray and hee has been banned indef. Regards. --Dave 02:23, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

No, I had no idea. Some, unfortunately, we just can't "save" :o( Pesky (talk) 04:09, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

• Well, there are those who don't even want to count their blessings when help is Being rendered. Instead, they'd rather let their own obsession consume them in the process than to be saved. Tragic but that's life, I guess. Been nice chatting with you, see ya around gramp... Cheers~! --Dave 07:18, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes they end up reading enough, or getting interested enough, to work it out for themselves. Pesky (talk) 07:24, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

• Yup, sometimes. --Dave 08:31, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

A Question

Do you think I'm ready to be an admin? Soviet King 05:33, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

It's not for me to decide! The only way you will ever find out whether Teh Community (or at least that sector of Teh Community which voices its opinions at RfA) considers you ready to be an Admin is to put yourself up for RfA. Personally, I think the likelihood is that you would probably get slaughtered over there, and you would find it a horribly distressing experience.

I though you'd decided to retire, anyway? There's not much point in getting a few extra cleaning tools if you're not going to be around doing cleaning ... and I can't actually think why anyone would really want to be a Nadmin, but that's just me. I have no intention of ever running for adminship, and if someone else nominated me I would politely turn it down. You know, there's an absolute mass of stuff you can do without being an Admin.

My personal advice to you would be not even to consider putting yourself up at RfA until you have many, many months more experience doing all the adminny-type things which you don't actually need the mop for, and (and this is the most important thing of all) you have mastered the ability never, ever, ever to fly off the handle and snap at people. Pesky (talk) 05:50, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Pesky is correct Soviet King. The retired template alone would likely get many oppose votes, and right or wrong, your edit count isn't that high yet. Remove the retired template (even if you aren't editing - no need to announce it), and keep doing what you've been doing lately for another 4 - 6 months and ask a couple folks you trust where they think you stand. I think you have great potential. — Ched :  ?  08:41, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

• Almost forgot. While I'm here: gampa hugs and wolfie kisses to Pesky. :-) — Ched :  ?  08:43, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Schluuurrrrrrrp ;P and snuggle ... Pesky (talk) 08:57, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

* Ok, thanks Ched. I agree I have entered the wrong paths, but I am doing good hopefully. I have got to wonder how many people will love to be here because of your tender and caring attitude. Thanks for the heads up Ched. Care to me my new admin coach? I've been here longer than most people, and I think i'll just edit a bit more. Soviet King 12:17, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

_{can I ask, in Soviet Russia, what's a Russian reversal ? (run away)} ☏

Ched is a Truly Wonderful Person, and deserves every hug he can get his arms around. Penyulap: lɐsɹǝʌǝɹ uɐıssnɹ ∀  ??? Pesky (talk) 19:01, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi Soviet King. You asked the same question at my page so I thought I'd also say that no, I'm afraid you are not ready to become an administrator. I won't go into too many details, because you've had some good advice above. There are a few factors, the retired tag, recent disputes at AN/I, the fact that your name does not relate to your signature (I know it redirects) are all problematic with regards to becoming an admin. If you are interested though, try following my magic formula for a few months, and see how you do! Worm · (talk) 07:40, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Um...

While Strange Passerby had many good contributions, we both have entered in a few scraps. Some of his comments/attitude with or about me include the following:

• Telling me I lie my way out of things to go to the same thing over and over again (), which appears to be in stark contrast with these: (), (), (), where it clearly shows that he has a knack of creating things a great deal of. I agree back then I was very steamed with Strange Passerby with his/her attitude towards me, and I reluctantly agreed with his statement on the Misplaced Pages talk page.
• Challenging my sanity and accusing me of incompetency to edit Misplaced Pages: () If you haven't noticed, I have done nothing to provoke him/her to respond in this way. I appreciate the fact that I was new and often made the tendency to make a few mistakes (yes, I'm human, not a robot). Up till then, I was versed with the Copyright thing, but I had no idea it applied to WP:ITN. Feeling that he was trying to steer me away and make a huge big deal about me contributing to that section, I responded with an uncivil (yes, I said sorry about that) edit summary.

But whatever it is, I guess I'm just over it really. Like you've said: I flied of the handle and snapped at him. I agree what I did in the past was wrong, and the past is the past really. Those looking into the past just won't grow up and look into the real world as it is. After all, he is a Nosy Parker (if you didn't know, it's a colloquial term to describe someone inquisitive). I don't think I was wrong entirely, but he too was wrong in the sense that he boosted off into making a big deal about something innocent. That I think isn't right, as that could bring upon other opinions that could be perceived as hurtful and might want an editor to drive away from editing that section on Misplaced Pages. What I don't like is that he is persistently refusing to see that, but hopefully the time will come when he realises that. Soviet King 12:17, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I had a good look through all of those. It seems to me (though obviously I could be wrong, as I'm sure there's probably more history between you) that you're / you were being a bit over-sensitive, maybe, and seeing more there than there really was to see (we do that, too! It's that Hypervigilance thing ... I think you're seeing "attacks" where there aren't really attacks). Soooo, long story short, the biggest thing you probably need to do is really learn WP:AGF off by heart, and really understand it, to the extent where your first reaction to something should become "He/She probably didn't mean anything spiteful or vindictive or even snarky at all, let it lie ..." The being over-touchy, over-jumpy thing will get better with time and effort on your part, but there's no way you'd be ready to be an admin (for example) until you have that thing absolutely under control. Like, no snark or over-jumpiness or snappiness or even feeling attacked, where there's room for doubt, for at least 6 months? It can take that long before you really have that internal snap-dragon chilled out and snoozing! Pesky (talk) 18:54, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that I think needs to be addressed carefully, but what Is important is that the talk left on the Misplaced Pages page could have invited other personal opinions. I have been assuming good faith, but it was up to the point where I could hold it anymore because of his serious concerns regarding his nosiness. Soviet King 06:43, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure that what you're perceiving as "nosiness" could / should be equally validly perceived as "concern for the wellbeing of the 'pedia." In the past, I've fallen into the autie-trap of "turning someone into a persecuting ogre" when all they were really doing was keeping tabs on me because one or more things I had done had concerned them. They didn't mean anything at all nasty by it, but I misinterpreted the way they were putting it. I think I was probably well over 25 before I "got it" on that one, and I still (at over 50) have to make a conscious effort to think very, very hard about some people. You may well be just the same – the tendency to view someone as "persecuting you" or "obsessed by you" may be one that's very hard for you to shake off. Thing is, the harder it is to shake off, the harder we have to work at it. Being an Aspie/autie in a mostly-neurotypical world is hard work. It's never going to come naturally (sorry about that, but that's just the way it is!) It's as much "hard work and study" as getting a good degree is. More, in fact, because withan academic subject, once you know it, if you keep up to date, you never lose the knowledge. But with A-spectrum brain-hardwiring, we constantly have to work at reminding ourselves that we're likely to misinterpret things, and to know our own weaknesses. It can be very tough, but it's so worth it, to keep on and on (for decades) making that effort to have far greater understanding than most people ever need. It can be a tough, tough world out there. BUT ... you have the big advantage that you're an intelligent A-spectrum person, you can read, you can write, you can communicate, you have the inherent ability to work on this one. Feel sorry for those who can't! You will have to work, and work, and work on it. Think of it as having a potentially-dangerous dog which can't be let out of the house without a muzzle and leash, until it's been 100% successfully rehabilitated and has perfect response to all commands, no matter what the provocation is. You need to buckle on your own muzzle and leash, and accept that in most cases that "being persecuted" feeling is a "wrong thought", and it can be like a closed loop in a computer program. It's up to you to break out of that loop. Nobody else can do that for you. "For things to change, you have to change." Pesky (talk) 08:14, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

your WikiLove template

Enjoy a Virtual Meal on the Pesky Express. (Guaranteed calorie-free!) personalized WikiLove by Penyulap

Version 1

There are lots of interior views for a dining car, but nothing for the period of steam really. Are any of these ok ? plus, if you have a microphone you can have audio, or I can get PALZ to do a better job, or I can get a human to do a better job, as you please. I've done a bit of work on the movie, not too much, but it's coming along. Penyulap ☏

That's really cool! The only thing is ... I think I've only ever used a talkback template once ... I do dish out WikiLove things from time to time, so a nice little anim for that (maybe including a pic or two of an old-fashioned steam train) would be fun :D Pesky (talk) 18:57, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

can you give me example text to guide me, and do you think audio, like above, is a good idea ? Penyulap ☏

"Enjoy a Virtual Meal on the Pesky Express. Guaranteed non-fattening." The audio is cute! Pesky (talk) 14:36, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

I was trying to do a bunch of other things, but I have precisely no idea if the docs for what I wanted to do exist, plus there were like a heap of bugz I spent a few hours wrestling with (sigh).

Well, I had intended to put the text as the background of the train, by the way, how is the train ? no steam at the moment, I think it all has to be hand drawn. I cut up an animation of a few wheels and added a wheel and then built it onto the little engine. Anyhow, I can put the text inside the image, and people can still click on it, but it would be static otherwise, that is, it can have a link to your userpage, talkpage, and so on but not the date. The text as it is now can change, and something else could be put into the background. Also, the menu(s), not sure where to go with the kinds of food, maybe simple and no anim ? Penyulap ☏ 23:38, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

It took me ages to realise there was a train coming! Can we have food on the left (nice old-fashioned yummy things ... and beer, too ;P) and some steam-train footage on the right, with audio? Do we have any video of an actual real-live steam train (free use kinda thingy-wossname)? And just text in the middle, between the pics? You're amazing, by the way! Pesky (talk) 12:31, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

An award for you

Golden Wiki Award You are among the top 5% of most active Wikipedians this past month! 67.80.64.128 (talk) 22:58, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah, WikiLoveSpam! It would be so nice if I had enough time for that to have been true ... Pesky (talk) 23:02, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Add your spam feedback to AN/I. The IPs is part of a large quantity spam bout undergoing investigation.

Hghyux (talk to me)(talk to others) 00:17, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

I have responded. I like Penyulap's suggestion of creating more suitable messages for them to use. They're being kind, and positive, but not in the best way; it certtainly didn't upset me to get this. Someone whose first approach to other people is friendly and kind and positive can;t be much of a bad person! Pesky (talk) 08:20, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for expressing your support for me in the User_talk:PumpkinSky#Sanddunes_Sunrise thread and/or participating in the User_talk:PumpkinSky#Ostereierbaum_.28Easter_Egg_Tree.29 thread. Peace to everyone. PumpkinSky talk 01:02, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

And peace, and contentment, and hope, to you, too. Pesky (talk) 08:21, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal: Case update

Dear ThatPeskyCommoner: Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:

Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/27 February 2012/Wikipedia:Verifiability

is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Mr. Stradivarius, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot (talk) 09:40, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

'Tis not finished, 'tis a Work In Progress. Pesky (talk) 09:44, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry...

Hi Pesky. I'm short on time this morning, but saw your note about losing your horse. I'm very sorry to hear that. Animals are such wonderful lovely creatures - how can you help but not love them so? You have very warm and sympathetic hugs from me today for the sadness you must have. I hope the horse had a good life while it was here. All my prayers and best wishes. — Ched :  ?  13:44, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, she did have a good life, though she was only young. She spent most of her life running out free on the Forest with her half-sister / best friend. Pesky (talk) 13:47, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Hey, I was also sorry to read your note on Malleus' talk page. My girlfriend's horse has had colic once, the most distressing time of her (and his) life so far I think. My thoughts are with you. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:02, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, too. Here in the UK (and I bet elsewhere, too!) there's an old farmy saying: "Where you have livestock, you will get dead stock." It's not callous, it's just one of those things that we have to learn to live with. This particular decision was an easy one for us, as she had so obviously decided to give up. It's the ones where it's really hard to make the call of "Let her go, we're only prolonging the suffering" versus "Keep trying, she may pull through and be as good as ever," which are the really tough ones. We will miss her, we've had her ever since she was a baby, but at least she's not in any pain now, and she was surrounded by people she loved, and was being cuddled when she went; about the best way to go, if you have to. Pesky (talk) 10:11, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

An award for you

		The Good Friend Award
		Thank you so much for your helpful tips. Terminator92 15:15, 17 April 2012 (UTC)