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MyCSD - Thoughts - YRC2.0 - Barnstars :: ARCHIVES - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8

BEFORE YOU POST - Discussions about the content of articles belong on the talk page for that article. This includes discussions about text, images, tags, or other physical things on the page. This way everyone can participate. If you like, you can post a note here pointing me to it. If you want to discuss general policy, ask for help on a page you haven't seen me on, or other topics that aren't related to the actual article, post it here. If you email me, drop me a note here please. Thanks -DB

Thanks

Just a note to say thank you for acting on the AN/I that I posted (about 84.45.222.192, et al). I hope that does the trick...Moonraker12 (talk) 17:39, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

• Just doing what I thought was right. I hope it helps as well. I looked a little at the other editors, who haven't edited in a while, and couldn't see anything that require immediate action at any. If another admin looks and concludes differently, that will be fine. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 17:41, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

The Kelapstick Beans Award

	The Kelapstick WP:BEANS award
	Please don't give Drmies any more ideas, sometimes he follows through, and someone has to clean up after him kelapstick 02:39, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Well said, K.! LadyofShalott 03:09, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

You know what happens when you given Wikipedians WP:BEANS, right? They WP:FART. Drmies was just trying to emulate that scene in his favorite movie. LadyofShalott 03:24, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

How did you know? I'm sad K-stick moved the article--the longer title did a great job of indicating what's happening here: nothing masquerading as something. Welcome to the future of WP. Drmies (talk) 04:40, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

BTW, someone seems to have vandalized the article, and the related AfD is an amusing read. Drmies (talk) 04:43, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm quite saddened by the page move. It was my hope to see it eventually go to AFD with all the articles in the list added sneakily to the AFD, so we could delete them all in one easy step. There is no way to express the tremendous pride I had in that title, my only contribution to this batch of rock soup. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 10:31, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Dennis, don't feel disheartened, this is a juggernaut of the twitterpedia, there is no stopping it now. This has potential to grow to epic proportions. I won't be happy until I am included in the list, with my 15 followers, how big will the article have to be? And don't get me wrong, I loved the title. Now we have to start 2012 in Twitter. --kelapstick 10:42, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Andy Warhol would be proud. It is a shame that we can't create articles that automatically expire and delete themselves. In the larger scheme of things, these article have a shelf life only slightly longer than milk. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:00, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Case in point - Seamus (dog). What do you think an AfD would look like after the election?--kelapstick 11:11, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

A long sheet of relists because no one would care. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:10, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I can't believe it took me over an hour to pick up on the Warhol joke (and I am just seeing the link now, I had thought you had linked to the page). Too long a day, and too much Hahn perhaps (I can't always blame it on the beer, but I do when I can). --kelapstick 12:34, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I like obscurity, it's my specialty. I made a slight change to Drmies article, to keep it from getting dated. And left Drmies a "barnstar". Sort of. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:36, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Awesome barnstar, probably my second favorite (after the one here, look for one by Drmies on 11 Feb this year.) --kelapstick 12:45, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

We do what we can on a budget. Drmies (talk) 14:06, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

This may have the unintended consequence of being a good thing, sort of. I know that you had no intention of this Drmies, but if Dr. Blofeld has his way (and I support his way), then you will have the proud distinction of being the original creator of the only article on Misplaced Pages that covers celebrities on Twitter. If that isn't irony, I don't know what is. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 19:12, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

←My oh my, lots of interesting things occur on the Misplaced Pages when I go to bed. AfD's fly all over the place, amazing. Remember to listen to me more Dennis, remember what I said, a juggernaut...there is no stopping this now, we are going to steam-roll over the Misplaced Pages!--kelapstick 22:21, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

• • All Your Pedia Are Belong to Us. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 22:25, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Ban?

Dennis, can you help me understand how an individual admin can "ban" an individual from a page without support from any other editor? Involuntary bans are only performed by the Community or one of its collective processes. The fact that another admin did a page protection indicates that there is not a ban, because if there were there would be no need for protection. I believe you are misjudging that banning is within the role of the admin as if Community support is not needed. I saw no such support at ANI. JJB 17:17, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

• I have opened up a discussion at WP:AN. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 18:30, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
• Hopefully this will clear up any misunderstanding by putting everything on the table at the proper venue WP:AN, including my own actions. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 18:39, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Surreal Barnstar
	Deserving of this.. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:51, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your kindness Dr. Evil Blofeld. That is the first one of those I have received. I will proudly put in on display with my other barnstars once my fellow editors have had the opportunity to admire it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 19:03, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Factseducado FYI

They attempted to remove your objection to their unblock. I have restored your comments. Hasteur (talk) 21:39, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

An outside opinion

Hi, sorry to bug you. I wonder if, in your opinion, I am being too thin-skinned by taking offense at this: ? Difficult to be certain - I am deeply offended by it, but should I be? I trust your judgement in these things. GwenChan 00:36, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

• Looking....Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:39, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
• Ok, here is the honest truth. I read the whole thread, but not the article content. What you have done is all that needs to be done. He was a bit insulting, but it is a contentious discussion, he is raising what seems to be legitimate points (I have no comment as to who is right or wrong, I have no idea) and I think this fall under what I would normally called "heat" or "peppered speech", as it appears that his concerns are in good faith. A little rude, but is predominantly on topic and the slightly insulting tone is still dealing with facts. You pointed it out, properly and politely, but I would move on. Tomorrow, it will still look slightly insulting, but still a bit insulting. I would normally not get involved in cases like this because the overwhelming amount of the discussion is actually healthy debate. The rudeness was unnecessary, and I don't condone it in the least, but pointing it out further will only have a Streisand effect. Your debating skills are plenty good that you can overlook it and focus on the merits of your argument, just like you have been doing. You probably are a little more sensitive right now because it is something you care about and it is frustrating that he isn't seeing your perspective in a way you want him to, and is a bit dismissive in a way that might be perceived as arrogant to some. In short, it is not actionable, or close to actionable at this point. Feeling the way you do is normal. Asking for another opinion was wise. Just keep doing what you are doing: being the sweet, passionate person who uses logic and persuasion without getting snippy back. You are always welcome to ask me here, anytime you need a second opinion. I might not always tell you what you want to hear, but I promise I will always tell you what I believe is the truth. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:56, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

• Okey dokey, Ima go eat some chocolate and read a book, and come back again tomorrow =) G'night. GwenChan 00:59, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

• Good idea. Not everyone is as nice and you and I, but we still have to tolerate each other. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 01:01, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Your comment at ANI

Are you endorsing a run at ARBCOM with your statement? I'm trying to show compassion, but if you think it's time to drain the resivor, I'll start the ArbCom filing tonight. Hasteur (talk) 14:46, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

• I think you might let someone else a bit more neutral consider filing. I was hoping that Drmies or DGG might decide the next step, or at least play a part. No need to do it today. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 14:48, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

La Tour Eiffel

Oops, thanks. Having said that, if this hadn't already been move-prot'd, I would have declined a request for move-prot based on the pre-protection history (only moved once in 2006 and once in March 2008, even though full move protection was not added until July 2008). There's no need for it to be moved, of course, so it doesn't hurt to have full move prot on it, but then again we don't fully move protect all articles where there could never be a reason to change the title. Not complaining, or suggesting anything, just thinking out loud! Regards, Bencherlite 20:27, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

• So, we don't preemptively protect articles, except when we do? ;) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 20:30, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Indeed. Nor do we issue cool-down blocks, except when we do, nor do we protect the right version of an article, except when we do. You'll get the hang of it soon enough...! See Misplaced Pages:What you won't learn in new admin school. Bencherlite 20:38, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

You owe me an oops, as you removed my semi-protection entirely when increasing my move-protection from 1 year to infinite... Bencherlite 00:41, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

• • I do suck. Blame this blasted new mop. Apologies. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:25, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

DS/TG IBAN

Hello Dennis! just thought if you are interested (and of course if you have time) I can give you the links to previous RFCs, AfDs and other discussions where both of the editors commented or discussed in somewhat similar way as the AfD in question and also to previous IBAN vio reports (some were closed as WP:BOOMERANG and they were whacked off). Furthermore Salvio and Magog are the two admins who have been following this issue mostly. Regards --SMS 22:13, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

• My main concern was the policy itself, as I'm not used to working iban situations and it seems (for lack of a better term) utterly stupid to not include AFD discussions as part of the interaction ban. Perhaps I'm overcome with common sense in a world obsessed with wikilawyering, but I can't fathom why AFD would be an exception, as it should instead be at the top of the list. In this case in particular, since one author clearly created the article, it should be obvious. I'm not one to easily accept that "we've always done it like that", as I'm far to independent for that. WP:IBAN seems to need work, and more clarity would make this issue moot. If we simply allow him to withdraw his vote (I've tried, he won't), but make it clear that AFD is also off limits, that would be fine with me, as I'm not trying to get anyone blocked, only prevent this needless interaction and constant ANIs. Yes, I'm an old timer who is new to the mop and just now noticing a few things. While some parts of Misplaced Pages are fine, many parts are terribly broken. And I apologize if I seem frustrated, it is certainly not your fault, but there is a shortage of good old fashioned common sense at ANI all too often. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:52, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
• Follow up I've left a message at WP:IBAN, but previous discussions seem to indicate that AFD is not an approved interaction for ibaned users, per my thoughts. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:14, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

  (edit conflict)You are absolutely right in saying that it is violation of the (spirit of) IBAN, I totally agree with you and there are other people who agree with you like Regents Park who also commented on some previous IBAN vio reports with same thoughts but nobody gave it due weight. IBAN can't work this way and it actually isn't working if you have noticed blocks were also issued for violations of IBAN in last 2 months. Probably the best way to move forward would be to ask DS and TG to forget any IBAN relaxations/(or whatever you may call it) given previously and clarify them it is an IBAN violation and it should not happen again. That will I guess help in solving the issue. Though I think a TBAN is more needed here and I with some other editors did give this suggestion at the time of IBAN proposal and later too but it wasn't taken. My concern here was just that the reporting editor himself has been doing the same, has observed similar actions being done by the other party in the past and had been given clarifications by admins a number of times but yet again.... Well I see you may be disappointed that how a simple thing can't be understood by the editors but it is only that in the past admins did let it go (somewhat similar situations). (Btw I know you are a new admin as I am following you since you filed your RFA. Not in any negative way just for the learning purpose.) --SMS 00:36, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

  I'm not sure watching me will be very educational. I'm constantly told that I'm different than other admins. Personally, I wear those comments like badges of honor. I do prefer common sense over policy, and it usually serves me well, but it does bite me from time to time. Also I'm under no illusion that there are any innocent parties here, but I have to still consider first, the issue that is presented, then any other. I can't undo previous leniency, I can only condemn it. And I've started the conversation on IBAN to get the policy clarified. My experience has been that when I forcefully interject a little common sense into a discussion, often it takes root, if only in one or two people, and we are often able to resolve the issue without all the damn policy links, and instead just find the right solution that works and is fair to everyone. I find the average editor respects this, even if some of the old blood doesn't. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:52, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Insufferable?

While I sometimes find you insufferable, ? Really? That makes Misplaced Pages better how? Nobody Ent 22:23, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

• I was quite sincere. I wasn't trying to flatter him, only speak from the heart, and I meant every word. His editing skills do make Misplaced Pages better. We are not overflowing with talent in the writing department. We need good authors more than we need good admins. We are an encyclopedia, after all. Take a look around at the state of most of the articles here. He seems to have taken in the proper vane as well. He was quite vocal in opposing me at my RfA and has never bothered to even address me before now, but I certainly don't take it personal. I accept everyone for what they are, good and bad. Including Malleus. He frustrates me, and I've been vocal against him at times, but that doesn't erase his contributions. To be honest, I consider a rare few of his "disruptions" to be among his finest contributions. I'm complicated that way. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:37, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

  No worries Dennis, even I find myself insufferable at times. I'm complicated that way too. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 00:39, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

User:Scottdelaney1067 once again

I just looked at some of his recent edits – I didn't look at all of them... Can you check and ? I think I've rectified that situation. Also, the 3 in-a-row escalating templated warnings at User talk:198.24.31.117 seem rather bitey. Perhaps you could give him a bit of sound advice. Thanks. Mojoworker (talk) 23:49, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

• It will have to wait a bit, and I was actually trying to earlier today, but I keep getting called to other tasks. I will look in a bit. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:53, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
• At a quick glance, it seems he saw the tag on the edit as a potential BLP issue, and just acted on it. Improperly. Not sure what to do. Can't block him for just that. :/ Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:16, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

No, I don't think a block is in order. I think he means well, but he's just gone a bit gung-ho. And, as you've expressed previously, he may run up against someone who may hit back at him hard. I think maybe an explanation will suffice. I thought that should maybe come from you since it looks like you were his "first contact" here at WP (and you have such a diplomatic style). I'm out the door, (and I need to get some notes ready for a conference call in the morning) but I'll try to offer him some advice when I'm back online if you don't get there first. Maybe point him to the WP:CVU where I've been helping out a little with its resurrection. He may be a perfect candidate for the academy there. Mojoworker (talk) 00:43, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I've tried talking to him before, but with no luck unless he asks one question, gets one answer. Maybe having his head bit off a bit will do him good, to see the consequences of his actions. We've tried so many other approaches. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:54, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up on his user name change. I just had to warn him for templating people making sandbox edits. I notice the activity on his talk page is heating up. I'm seriously wondering if WP:CIR applies here... Mojoworker (talk) 19:13, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Waiting, giving rope, WP:AN might be in the future. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 19:51, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Youreallycan

As his mentor, I think your opinion might be helpful about what's going on here. He wanted a discussion removed or hatted, which it was, but he objects strongly that I'm the one hatting discussion. It just doesn't really make sense, and I cannot fathom his reasons for objecting to closure at this point. AniMate 22:46, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I removed a WP:TPG violating thread - the user that created it - User:Egg Centric revert warred it back into the talkpage (other users had objected to the discussion also) and then the reverter and TPG violator deleted the whole discussion and User:AniMate a user with citable strong objections to my editing walked by closing without even a simple comment - Youreallycan 23:13, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Since it's been brought up, it would also be nice if you could check if his definition and/or diagnosis of a "revert war" makes any sense whatsoever. Egg Centric 22:56, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

A revert war is if you replace good faith removed disputed content - did you do that? Youreallycan 23:16, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh, factually I reinserted (once) some content that you had removed. But there was no mens rea on my part, no reason at all for me to believe the content was disputed by yourself - and I didn't. You had removed it with no comment and an edit summary of "archive". You seem amazed that I couldn't read your mind. Egg Centric 23:25, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

diff - WP:TPG You created a violating discussion thread - Your thread had already been hatted and objected to - easy peasy - "archive" was your opportunity to quietly let it go, but you revert warred it back to the talkpage Youreallycan 23:30, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I was in touch with the user that hatted it. I had no reason to believe you considered the hatted (and that's an important word because it was restored hatted as well) discussion problematic. Nevertheless since then I have indeed been tying to "quietly let it go" but you won't let it drop. It's now you insisting on discussion on what is now four separate talk pages - trying to get me to admit... what? that I made an edit? Egg Centric 23:34, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm just looking at the talk page issue here: Wow Egg, this was not a good idea. Bearcat and others pointed this out. YRCs wasn't revert warring he only made two unrelated reverts, one of each. I may have worded it differently but that is just how I am, and I'm not the measuring stick for civility anyway. I have to admit, when I saw your post, I was shocked. As to reverting the hatting, he had the right to revert, and he did since he felt it wasn't over. I might have done the same, and I have at ANIs and other discussions before. This is how the system works. Even if it seems rude, it was proper and within policy. As to policy interpretations, there is already an admin participating in the discussion, Bearcat, who can help, and that isn't as important as the larger issue anyway. The conversation got a bit heated but I didn't see anyone cross the line, and I would expect it to get heated in this type of circumstance. It looks like everything was handled in discussion, so I'm not inclined to get involved. Sorry guys, but this is one you need to work out yourselves. I suggest leaving it alone, because for the most important parts of the talk page issues, YRC looks to be right. Wanting the invitation removed and unhatting the discussion, these are things I might have done myself, even if I'm a sweet talker when I do it. As to the content of the article and placing back disputed BLP material, I would direct you to WP:BLPN, as that is out of the scope of my experise. But I don't see anything I need to spank him for. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:37, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Wow, not the response I was expecting. Ok YRC, you "win", I admit to the henious offence of whatever. Egg Centric 23:40, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

You see, thats not what its all about, there is no winning and losing in this vague Wiki world, - its more about getting over hurdles as this when as contributing volunteers we all want the same options - Youreallycan 23:43, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Egg, it is not about winning. It is about working our way through problems. Sometimes it is ugly. This one was ugly in every possible way, which is why I'm not wanting to get involved. There is nothing about that conversation that I would have done the way that everyone else did. Well, except Bearcat I guess. That doesn't matter. You guys can handle it yourselves. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:49, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Not the response I was expecting either, and I'm not sure how closely you've read things. Egg Centric's post was awful and he shouldn't have restored it, but he certainly didn't revert war. And YRC didn't say he objected to the hatting because there was more to discuss. He objected because Egg Centric requested it and I was the one who implemented it. Those aren't valid objections. The discussion wasn't even about him, it was about Egg Centric and frankly shutting down any suggestion that we use the talk page the way he intended seemed like a good idea. And while it isn't about winning, this very much seems like a case of YRC wanting this to stay open until someone admitted he was right. AniMate 23:58, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Maybe, but there is already an admin there and since I don't see an obvious problem that forces me to get involved, I'm not inclined to, and let you work it out yourselves. The situation started out badly. That it continued badly isn't a shocker. But it isn't a situation that I need to interject my opinions into. There are times when I need to jump in, and times I need to stay out. This is the latter. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:17, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Lol

See bottom of article Egg Centric 15:07, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

• I've seen stuff flying around here, but still lost as to what this actually means. I've seen a dozen people here that were supposed to be this person. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:56, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, this is the source of your "message" the other day. Bad egg.... Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 16:01, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

What message?

Anyhoo thought you might be amused with that little "clipping", I've notified everyone else involved with this discussion... Egg Centric 16:09, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

This was causing controversy elsewhere here, someone had a list of Misplaced Pages editors who this person "might be". Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 16:10, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I saw that, quite the list! I was torn between AnomieBOT and Iridescent Egg Centric 16:28, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Purpose of afd

See for the actual consensus state of affairs. An obviously bitterly disputed merge might as well go to AfD, though most of us would word it as delete if it can't be merged or some such thing to deal with the literalists. There have been discussions for years to get Articles for Deletion formally renamed as Articles for Discussion ; the rename once or twice has gotten consensus but nobody ever did the work of changing all the bots and templates and guidelines. None the less, that's how we treat it. You've asked that I criticize you where I think it's needed: You're a new admin--don't start off being so dogmatic. DGG ( talk ) 01:09, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

• Point taken, friend. I try to not be dogmatic, even while I try to keep things orderly and in their proper place. I have seen many closes over the years that were consistent with my belief that one should never propose a merge directly in a nomination, and had just assumed this was correct. WP:Merging does say this is discouraged, but you are correct that it is not an absolute bar, and perhaps there are times when it does make sense. I will redouble my efforts to speak less in absolutes, and perhaps think a bit less in absolutes as well. I stand corrected. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 01:33, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I slept on your words, and thought about it this morning a great deal, and concluded my comments above were correct but were insufficient. I have rectified the situation here . It isn't right for me to expect someone else to publicly correct themselves if I am not just as willing to do the same, so I have. I wouldn't be serving a very good example for someone I am mentoring, nor anyone else had I not. A little humble pie is good for the soul. Thank you friend. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 14:16, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Review please?

Hello, Dennnis. I consider you to be my friend, and as such, I hope that you'll be happy to know that I'm trying to follow what I have been told in my RFA. Can you please review me? Thanks. Dipankan 09:25, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

• Normally I would say no because I am currently training in two different areas, mentoring another editor and my plate is quite full. However, if you are patient, I will take the time and review and offer you any guidance I can. Keep in mind, I will be honest and blunt, much more so than in your RfA, and you might not like everything I have to say. If you are in agreement, then I will find the time when I can. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:03, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I agree. Never mind. Thanks, and I'll be patient. Dipankan 15:07, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
    • Did you forget giving me the editor review? Dipankan 16:10, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
      • I had not gotten to it yet is all. As I said, you must be patient. I have been quite busy and forced to deal with some things here and in the real world. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 16:15, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

I want Danceking5 blocked, and I want it now.

This is why. → ROUX ₪ 11:01, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, but a week isn't long enough at all. I want him to retract his accusations, and promise to never ever make them again before he is allowed to edit. → ROUX ₪ 11:14, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

• • I have replied at the ANI. To say that I'm non-plussed with your tone here is an understatement. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:23, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
    • Oh yes, I keep forgetting, when people attack me with utterly bullshit allegations, cast aspersions on my mental health, make truly bizarre comments about the times at which I edit (I'm a chef, we have odd hours) and so on, I'm supposed to be nice and polite and not ever get angry. Fuck that. → ROUX ₪ 11:27, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

Because you shouldn't edit before your first cup, here is a long black. Australia's only acceptable contribution to coffee, in my opinion. And only acceptable because of the double entendres it provides. Consequently a flat white also provides the same comic relief. kelapstick 11:41, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Much better, thank you! Interesting read as well. Sounds like a variety I should try. I am enough of a snob to grind my own beans at work and at home. Coffee is the nectar of the gods, to be sure. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:47, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, well you can't get a regular cup of coffee in this country it seems. If you ask for a cup of coffee, you get a look like you have three heads. Even the single cup machine we bought when we got here makes espresso only, I have to make the espresso, and add hot water. And don't go looking for a coffee maker here, they only have three models, I had to order my single cup unit (a different one I keep at work that makes just regular coffee as I can't handle instant for too long) from the US. I ordered two in case the first one crapped out on me :) --kelapstick 11:52, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

• • I grind and drip fairly strong, something like a European large coffee without the crema. I have owned a few espresso machines, but the $200 and less machines don't produce a proper crema, so not the same. I like it prepared in a number of ways, as long as it is black, no creme, no sugar, same as my tea. When the power goes out, we make cowboy coffee over the open fire. Most people can't drink it that way. I just floss afterwards. ;) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:02, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
    • I like the cut of your jib Brown. In Canada, when someone is doing a trip to Tim Hortons, and asks what I want, I usually say "I am a large black man", despite my neither being particularly large, nor particularly black. I once owned a percolator that was used for the cowboy coffee while camping, right on the coals, I am sure it is horrible, but camping coffee always tastes good. No matter how bad it actually is. --kelapstick 12:18, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
      • Oh, and have a look at this before or after it gets deleted, my second favorite NPP find, after Angela Lopez. --12:21, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
        • And K, that article isn't a CSD#A7, you know. or G11. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:27, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
          • I pulled tags and prod'ed, will AFD if needed. I'm in CSD Jedi training because I was declared a menace to society in my RfA. I must do what I must do K. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:34, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
            • hmmm, I though it was a person, I must have read too fast. Good pickup. Glad I dropped in. Thanks :) --kelapstick 12:48, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
              • I put that in my training log for review from the warden, to demonstrate how I've reformed and can hopefully soon enter CSD society, as I'm now saving Misplaced Pages from button happy deletionists ;) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:51, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
                • I am a bit dramatic this morning, aren't I? Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:52, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
      • Oh no, you don't use a percolator for cowboy coffee, just a pot and a spoon. Simmer, remove from heat, add grounds, wait a tic. I do have a perc unit for camping as well, but usually can't find when the power goes out, which is rare. I pre-grind the beans when weather looks bad, so I don't have to try to grind them with a hammer should the power fail. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:23, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
        • Well played, well it all worked out. Just booking some tickets for Mrs. K and the kids, they get to fly home business class thanks to Aeroplan, me, well we will see. But I have done lots of international business class travel and this will be a first for them. My only regret is not seeing the kids trash the lounges :) --kelapstick 13:24, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

how can I remove an article that I posted?

Hello..

I posted an article about head tilting, posing for photos (Ta3jet Nour).

I'm new at this and saw speedy deletion markings. I will look into it at another time. Meanwhile how can I remove an article that I upload in general? And this one for now I would like to remove until I understand better the mechanics of this site.

Thank you very much. Chingonnn (talk) 12:51, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

• Glad you asked! If you want it deleted, you can just edit the page, remove all the text, and someone will CSD it as a blank page. This is only proper to do on articles like this, very new, you started it and no one else has added a bunch of other information to it. And please do stay around and learn about editing at Misplaced Pages. WP:HELP is a great place to start, as are the links someone added in the welcome template on your talk page. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:54, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Your recent meassage on my talk page

Hello, Dennis. It looks to me as though the user is persistently failing to grasp the point of the various messages, and there is perhaps an element of paranoia too. However, we will see whether the matter continues, and if so how. JamesBWatson (talk) 15:50, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

• I didn't want to say too much, as I'm technically too involved and you are not, and you seem to have it under control. Just wanted to let you know I was aware. Pretty odd to copy all that text, what an odd axe to grind. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:53, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for !voting

	at my successful RFA
	Thank you, Dennis Brown, for !voting at my successful RFA; I am humbled that you put your trust in me. I grant you this flower, which, if tended to properly, will grow to be the fruit of Misplaced Pages's labours. I feel a little sheepish for the stuff my connection did, but no harm done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Sockpuppet edits

Hi, thanks for your assistance in the SPI issue. But I would like to ask your permission to reinstate the edits recently made to Scripps Ranch High School. These edits are not problematic, indeed they were constructive in trying to respond to my own demands for citations and correcting factual errors. Elizium23 (talk) 01:41, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

• By all means, you don't need my permission, whatever makes the article better. I reverted because there was a question about them and I had blocked the sock. If I misjudged the content, you do me a favor by fixing it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:14, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

WP:RFPP

You have a request at RFPP. Armbrust, B.Ed. _{The Undertaker 20–0} 12:01, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

User:50.81.90.92 and The Next Food Network Star/Food Network Star articles

Help! You recently semi-protected The Next Food Network Star (season 6) and Food Network Star (season 8) after a series disruptive edits by User:50.81.90.92. The editor is still active on the season 3-5 and 7 articles as well as the main Next Food Network Star article, making fiddly edits in what appears to be an attempt to make the articles perfectly uniform. The problem is, the various seasons haven't been perfectly uniform, and he/she is removing perfectly good, relevant and sourced content over and over again, with no discussion and no edit summaries. AussieLegend and I have warned her repeatedly, and attempted to engage her in discussion over and over again, and get no response. Now she's putting requests to edit on the talk pages of the semi-protected articles, so we know she can engage in discussion when it suits her. It's increasingly difficult to AGF when there is this persistent a pattern of tendentious, disruptive editing, particularly with respect to crafting the tables to her vision without regard to other editors, her refusal to respond to warnings, her ignoring of warnings, and her repeated, unexplained removal of appropriate content (notably descriptions of outcomes and of the contestants from some seasons.) She does make some good edits, but it's the problem edits, removal of any other editor's edits and the endless fiddling (for want of a better term for it) with the articles that's a problem. It's clear semi-protection isn't going to stop her, given the recent talk page activity, it's equally clear she will simply resume her disruptive editing as soon as the semi-protection is lifted. Moreover, the semi-protection on season 8 is keeping several IP's who do good editing from doing so. It's time for some attention getting administrative action targeted at the editor if we're ever going to get this pattern of editing stopped and the IP's attitude adjusted. I'd most appreciate any action you can take. --Drmargi (talk) 18:31, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

• I've left a final warning, so any admin will see that as a opportunity if he doesn't begin a dialog. Really can't block until that final is given. Reverting it back shouldn't be an issue, but this isn't vandalism, just disruptive, so 3RR still applies. You might need to go to RFPP if he isn't the only one. I'm a bit in and out today, so hard to follow everything. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 18:41, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, we can but hope he/she will respond, but I'm not optimistic. The multiple daily fiddly edits are annoying, but the repetitive removal of good content is just unacceptable, as is her blanket refusal to engage in any consensus building. We seem to have a cadre of IP editors whose sole playground is the endless collection of elimination shows, and who have a shared "my way or the highway" approach to editing. Yeah, I can revert again (I'm watching 3RR), try to engage her in dialogue, leave an edit summary, ad nauseum, but she'll just come back the next day and take it all out again for no discernible reason other than the apparent need to remove anything from one article that isn't in the rest. Page protection won't solve the problem. --Drmargi (talk) 19:11, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm a bit tied at the moment, at my day job, so a bit hard to examine as close as I would like. Will look at it later though. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 19:12, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I understand; I wasn't nagging, just commenting, and as you say, we do have to give the final warning a chance. I'll keep an eye on things in the meantime. --Drmargi (talk) 19:49, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, she's moved on to Chopped (TV series), and is editing that to distraction (distruction). Most edits are fine, but the she keeps reverting erroneous names for food items with no discussion, no edit summaries, and the rest. When do so many fiddly edits to the same page cross into 3RR territory? Somebody find me a bridge to jump off. --Drmargi (talk) 02:24, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Sock case

Hello!
You had in recent past blocked an IP for being a suspected sock. Sock case here is of Mr Hamza. Another IP 119.73.39.12 seems to be here now with same edits. Could you take care of this? I haven't opened any sock investigation before and certainly don't know how to do of the archived ones. Hence posting here. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 13:27, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Forgot to mention that their locations seem to match. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 13:36, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

• Blocked. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 13:51, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 17:41, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for this. I simply didn't have the time to respond to him, so it's good to see that he got a good response from you. --(ʞɿɐʇ) ɐuɐʞsǝp 13:35, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

So I took your advice

And asked Mar4d on his talk why he reverted a good faith edit as vandisim. From what I can garner he says it is vandalisim as IRWolfie said on ANI that the edit might not be NPOV. I am unsure how something said at ANI after the fact is a reason but that's the one I got, maybe you ought to ask him, be does not like me very much you see. Darkness Shines (talk) 16:19, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

• Well, you did drag him to ANI without trying to discuss it first, that might explain why he isn't happy with you. If you find yourself in a situation where no one agrees with you on a point, you are better off asking a respected editor who is uninvolved and edits on that page, on their talk page, for a second opinion. Or sometimes, you might just be wrong. We all are from time to time. In this case, I don't know since I didn't get into it deeply enough since it didn't belong at ANI, because you didn't try to address it on any talk page first. If you keep dragging people to ANI prematurely, you will suffer from The Boy Who Cried Wolf syndrome, where no one wants to jump in in the times when it is needed. ANI is the last resort, not the first. You should know this. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 16:31, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Counter Vandalism Unit Academy

Could you elaborate for me a little on User:Scott Delaney; Misplaced Pages:Counter-Vandalism_Unit/Academy/Enroll#Active_Requests_to_Enroll. Thanks Dan653 (talk) 02:07, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

• Short version: Judgement is worrisome. Uncommunicative at times, which makes determination very difficult from here, sometimes unresponsive. Seemingly young and a bit careless, often looking only at the surface and missing the nuances in other's actions, misinterprets because of this. Somewhat binary thinking. Not malicious in the least, but can be accidentally disruptive (BITEy via templates, etc.) even when he means well. Possibly CIR concerns, and has struggled enough that a couple of us have been keeping an eye out since day one. Borderline in many ways. Mojoworker is also familiar. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 02:25, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
• This page and my archives might be useful. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 02:27, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the helpful comments. Dan653 (talk) 02:58, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Dennis Nixon (IBC Bank) page

Hello,

I work for the public relations agency for IBC Bank and we noticed that someone outside of IBC Bank created pages for the bank and its CEO and Chairman, Dennis Nixon. We created a username (ibckgbtexas) to try to update some of the content since the creator used information that our client saw outdated and/or did not want on the page. We are brand new to the whole editing process and are slowly learning the rules for Misplaced Pages. However, we have been banned by you without any opportunity to help us address our issues. If we cannot update/ edit the pages without being banned or reprimanded, what is the process to have these pages deleted as our client is unhappy with the current versions? We appreciate any response.

yviands@kgbtexas.com

• First, you need to understand a few things. If you want to learn editing on Misplaced Pages in a way that is consistent with our goals, fits the needs of the reader, and as a side benefit, make the the bank happy, then you would have to be willing to spend a little time reading what Misplaced Pages is about. It isn't a business directory. We don't delete articles because the subject of the article doesn't like them. It doesn't work that way. If you add content here, it must be 100% original and not already copyrighted (no cut and paste from the website), and when you do, you release it under the CC license. This means that everyone else can use it, change it, modify it, add to it, subtract from it. You do not own that article any more than you own the air you breath, and you have no more say about the content than I do, or the next person who logs on. We all try to make sure the info is accurate, but we are not interested in helping you make your client "look good", and efforts to manipulate articles solely to make a client look good will get you blocked from editing. Misplaced Pages is a community supported, corroborative project, designed to build a free and open encyclopedia. It isn't a phone book ad.

• Anything that looks like spam in any way is generally deleted or reverted instantly, be it a website or editor. If you are simply wanting to add this info and insure it stays here, you are wasting your time and mine. If you want to actually learn how to add material here properly, including stuff about your client, and be respectful of the system here, then I will show you some links worth reading, below. If this is too much work, then your stay won't be pleasant and it wont' be long until the entire IP bank is range blocked for policy violations.

• We are here to build an encyclopedia. We are not here to help you make money. We will happily tolerate you making money, as long as it doesn't get in the way of us building a neutral and trustworthy encyclopedia. Once it does, our tolerance ends. It is that simple. We have enough issues and work to deal with. I had to stop editing articles now to answer this, so you have already cut down how much new data will be added tonight. I'm not thrilled with this, but I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, and give you a proper reply here.

• • • These are linkes, policies and rules reviewed and agreed on by many thousands of editors here, not just a few people, and have stood the test of time (Misplaced Pages isn't new, by the way.)

• General help page
• 5 pillars - Until you read this short page, you have no idea what Misplaced Pages is.
• WP:COPYRIGHT - Anything you write here, you give Misplaced Pages and the whole world an irrevocable license to use pretty any way they want, only giving credit back to you. This is why we can't use text that is already copyrighted except in limited circumstances. It must be original.
• WP:NPOV Neutral Point of View. As an encyclopedia, we document facts that are covered by reliable sources. We are not here to extol the virtues of your client.
• WP:COI Conflict of interest. If you can't cope with your conflict and write in a neutral manner, then you don't edit at Misplaced Pages.

• Finally, don't log in with this IP again, please. Technically, this was a policy violation itself, but I understand that you didn't know that, so trying to help. If you want to be unblocked, you need to log in with the IBCKGB account, ask to be unblocked and convince another admin that you will comply with the above, explain the issues there, get a new user name there. That is the breaks. If you want to use Misplaced Pages to make money, fine, but you aren't special, so you follow the same rules that I follow. Oh, and one of the rules is one PERSON per account. We do not allow company or shared accounts. You can read about that at WP:USERNAMES. If this is too much, then editing at Misplaced Pages isn't for you.

• One quick note: Since there are 1500 technical minded administrators who eat, live and breath this stuff, and this has a case report in the archives, trust me, ignoring my requests here would be foolish. Logging in from home and editing the articles, for instance, would take less than 3 minutes to notice and get blocked for, so seriously, I don't want to see that happen, and would just say that you need to do the things I asked so that perhaps you can edit here legitimately. I'm actually trying to help you. Most admins would have just blocked your IP and deleted your message, which is actually what the policies kind of say to do. Seriously, I'm trying to help you. Spend the time to learn a bit, follow the advice here, learn to contribute in a way that is acceptable. It isn't hard, you just have to forget about the checks you are getting and contribute in a neutral tone, and follow some simple guidelines. We have lots of 13 year olds who can do it here, surely you can. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 03:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Talkback:wikipedia:RFP.

KC9TV 00:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Editor's Barnstar

You are really on of the best admins we have! I have seen your archieves and saw your comments (kind of stalking) and I m really impressed. Especially I like the way you handle conflicts and questions brought to you. I also love to see your work at helping editors and your improvements at CSDs. You are doing great and I hope that you'll continue the good work. All the best! →TSU  11:25, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! That is very kind of you to say. I'm not sure I can live up to your words, but I can promise that I will try. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:36, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Request

Can you look on Magog the ogre talk page section titled another violation and either block or not as you see fit. I dislike having this hang over me, I find it stressful. Let's see how that natural justice works out. Darkness Shines (talk) 12:16, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

• I've replied there. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Ribfest

You know about this, right? I would go but I will be barbecuing a pork loin.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 16:11, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

• No I didn't, you need to add that to List of festivals in the United States with that source. We can maybe add an article later. I might need to check that out this weekend, that is only 30-40 minutes from the house, depends on the wife's schedule. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 16:14, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

If you go, take a camera. Good chance for photos but you will need lots of napkins to keep your hands and face clean. I'll add the festival to the list.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 16:22, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Not sure if this is notable enough to include yet, but I've started a sandbox to find out here: User:Dennis Brown/Texas Pete Twin City RibFest Help would be appreciated, so we can determine if it passes WP:N. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 17:25, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I also added a bunch of sources on the talk page. I think it can pass wp:n with some help. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 17:44, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and we ARE going. Likely Saturday after she closes the shop. Thanks for the heads up! Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 17:55, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I've watchlisted it and will see what I can do later. I've got to get some things done before the afternoon slips by. Enjoy the ribfest!
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 18:09, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm back! Great ribs, lots of cold beer and music. Think I will wait a while til I edit though.... Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:11, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Scott Delaney

Hi, Dennis. Sorry I've been absent to see what's been happening with the above user. I have placed a note on his page and placed a statement on WP:AN. If he continues, I will support the block which you recommended based on WP:DISRUPT. I understand your frustration, so let's hope this gets sorted out sooner rather than later and close the discussion for archiving. About twinkle, I know, currently that users can add it to their account whenever they like. Have there been any discussions for it to be handed out at places like WP:PERM? Thanks. --Chip123456 (talk) 19:59, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

• It used to be able to be taken away more easily, but I don't think it needs to a matter of permissions as most people use it fine. Snowolf covers one way around this, where it can be taken away, but its a little unusual. It would take an ANI or AN discussion to take it away from someone, which may be happening there now. I took it to AN rather than ANI, as it tends to slightly slower and more thoughtful, with a bit less drama. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 20:40, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Sock

No idea whose, but as you have dealt with Echigo mole perhaps you can hazard a guess on this fellow. Darkness Shines (talk) 21:52, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Mentor issue

Hi Dennis

In this discussion Talk:Luka_Magnotta#No_connecting_evidence - User:Wnt has accused me of violating Misplaced Pages:No legal threats - can you please investigate/comment - I have notified the user here User_talk:Wnt#Discussion - thanks - Youreallycan 22:02, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

• I addressed it earlier at that discussion. Any time you mention anything "legal", people tend to get a little hair trigger. I think it was just an honest misunderstanding, so just moving on is best and trying to avoid the "L" word when possible. Linking to the policy should be sufficient. Another one of those areas that isn't about right or wrong, just about the best way to get along. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:34, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

• I'm gonna jump in here, not that anyone asked me for my opinion. :-) I've never seen anyone refer me to Wikipeda's terms of use before in a discussion. If I were at the receiving end of it, I would (a) be bewildered because those kinds of documents are VERY long, very legal (despite the fact it says it isn't), and generally hard to understand - and, here, YRC, you referred to the entire document without pinpointing a particular section and (b) be somewhat intimdated by the reference. Therefore, regardless of whether the statement violates WP:NLT, it's not a constructive thing to say in a content discussion.

As for NLT itself, it's one of WP's wonderful policies where it never clearly defines what a legal threat is. Instead, it defines what it isn't and expects the reader to figure out the rest. That said, I think your comment, YRC, might fall under the section called "Perceived legal threats". Admittedly, it's subjective, how someone else is going to interpret your statement, and just because the other editor did perceive it as a legal threat doesn't mean their perception was "reasonable". My own feeling is it is a legal threat but I can see that others might disagree with me. Either way, the section called "Rationale for the policy" sums up the situation, even if it is NOT a legal threat: the comment "inhibits free editing" and "creates bad feelings". (As an aside, YRC, I think it's absolutely wonderful that you come to Dennis in these situations and lay yourself open to scrutiny. It shows not only good judgment, but real courage. Kudos.)

And so now, Dennis, we have to add the "L" word to the list of no-nos in the English language? It's gonna be particularly tough on lawyers, of which there are many at WP. "Your Honor, my client's conduct was perfectly L." Heh. End of long-winded opinion.--Bbb23 (talk) 13:41, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, using the L word does set off red flags at Misplaced Pages, often like a hair trigger. I didn't see YRC's statement as a legal threat, even if I would have worded it differently (I say that a lot, in a lot of conversations it seems), but I didn't see it as a breach of NLT. I tried to simply ramp down the drama and get both sides to not use the L word or refer it anything that implied it should be a concern, would the goal of not coming across as taking a side. Bbb, you are of course welcome to provide your perspectives on that page as well, and I always encourage anyone that thinks I'm mistaken to do so in the same venue. I have been known to be mistaken from time to time. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:22, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Unlike you, Dennis, I've never been mistaken about anything. Well, there was that time in 1854, but it doesn't really count as I wasn't born yet. Besides, if you really examine the transcript of the trial, I was probably more right than wrong.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:02, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Then I'm grateful that I wasn't born with the burdens of perfection. Perhaps this is why I am more tolerant and forgiving of other's shortcomings, as I have plenty of my own. ;-) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 16:07, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

As a reply to Bbb23's comment that, ... the comment "inhibits free editing" and "creates bad feelings".

The comment diff is completely correct and true its just that no one understands it/or often it seems, want to accept it. - I often want to explain it to people so as they get it - we are all totally legally responsible for all our edits here. Willy nilly replacing content that has been removed is not a good idea legally as you become completely responsible for it being in the article. Free editing is not a reality - responsible policy compliant editing is.The Foundations terms of use is being linked to a lot lately as I have seen - Letting people know there responsibilities is beneficial imo and is a way to move to a more responsible editing environment - . A for the "creates bad feelings" issue - the user that I was having the content discussion with stated that he was ok about it and in the end comment he did get it - / accept the reality diff - The user, User:Wnt that asserted it was, "coming really close to WP:NLT territory" diff and I have a very poor relationship, I have previously requested him not to edit any biographical article on en[REDACTED] - I don't think my comment was a legal threat in any way - but I will be careful in future not to mention the reality of contributing here, so as not to allow editors that have a historic poor relationship with me to allege such serious claims. Youreallycan 15:46, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I think Bbb is also worried that your phrasing might also be consider as giving a "chilling" effect, although technically, that kind of was the idea. It is a slippery slope and one where we all need to either tread lightly when telling someone, or perhaps asking someone else that works with BLPs to make the point to them, perhaps in their own words. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:58, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Its something I have told users many times when they say as this user did , "I didn't add the content" - Yes you did - the discussion wasn't about anything else than that point. There was no "chilling affect" as the content was cited and just disputed as undue weight in a BLP - it wasn't like I had removed it and was trying to stop him replacing it - the discussion was only about the I didn't add it /responsibility point and the user was fine about it. To be honest I am bemused that User:Bbb23 considers my comments in that thread a violation of WP:NLT , something I can be blocked indefinitely for until I retract the threat. Youreallycan 16:13, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

If I were an admin, I would absolutely not block you for the "threat". My argument that it constitutes a threat would not be persuasive to many other editors, and even I acknowledge it isn't clear. To block you in such circumstances would be unjustifiable.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:26, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Hm, anyway in my position its clearly better when they say, "I didn't add it" that I avoid telling them that they did and their responsibilities in regards to that - thanks for the feedback - regards - Youreallycan 16:36, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome, and I hope my feedback was constructive (Dennis's always is), even if you didn't agree with everything I said. It certainly wasn't my intent to pick on you. Best.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:28, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

You might find this odd, but I actually go out of my way to seek advice from people whom I often disagree, but respect and are friendly with. This gives me a more balanced set of opinions than seeking only those that agree with me. I find that for improving myself, this is a better solution. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 17:37, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Was this a personal attack?

Hello Mr Brown.

an IP said on his talk page that This wasn't a personal attack.

Could you clarify that for me please?Scott Delaney (talk) 02:31, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Note that I'm one more attack edit from the IP from bringing this to WP:ANI. Accusations of inserting libel are unacceptable. --NeilN 02:44, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Was that a personal attack?Scott Delaney (talk) 02:51, 11 June 2012 (UTC)