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This article contains a translation of École nationale de l'aviation civile from fr.wikipedia. (78157957 et seq.)

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Directors history

I removed the biographies from that section as they are completely off-topic. At best, this is confusing for the reader and at worst, it is trying to get around the notability criteria for biographies. So what we should do here is what we do on every single other school and university articles. If the person is notable, we create a separate biography article and simply link it from here. If the person is not notable, well in that case, there is no reason to include the information. See Yale and List of Yale University people for a good example. --McSly (talk) 01:31, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

As explained two times by 78.239.175.7 , this page is translated from the French article which is a good article. Even that, I have found on your French talk page some other information given by the same person. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 06:45, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Hello, you are not addressing any of the points that I raised and you should also answer here. Discussions on other[REDACTED] are not relevant. Essentially we have only one question to address: are any of those people notable?

If they are, then it's easy, we just create a biographical article for that person and link it from here. If not then the biography is completely off-topic and should be removed. This is how every single article on Misplaced Pages is built and there is no reason to have an exception here.--McSly (talk) 12:23, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Already answer on the French version. Please respect the work of other contributors. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 12:51, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Discussions on other[REDACTED] are not relevant and not everyone contributing here speaks French. Please provide an answer here. It's the only place where it counts.--McSly (talk) 12:54, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

The rules are the same on all Misplaced Pages. An answer has already been given to you two times by another contributor. "This page is translated from the French article which is a good article (http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Good_articles).)". You and I didn't write this article so the minimum is to respect the work of other contributors and wait for an answer from them. You can also read this : "Removing all or significant parts of a page's content without any reason, or replacing entire pages with nonsense" or this. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 13:08, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Reasons for my removal were always provided. You are mistaken when citing policies see here and here for a couple of examples. On top of that I started this discussion. You on the other end, have been dodging my questions and generally haven't addressed the subject at all (see WP:TALK). So my reasons for the removal of those biographies have been clearly explained. Please provide specific reasons why you want to keep the information or move on.--McSly (talk) 13:21, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

For the third time, it has been already explained to you by another contributor : "This page is translated from the French article which is a good article (http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Good_articles).)". 80.13.85.217 (talk) 13:23, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Articles change and can be improved by adding relevant details or removing non pertinent information. Biographies in the middle of a school article are not. As mentioned before (and many times), if those people are notable, it is perfectly fine to move that info in separate articles. So once again, here is the only question that needs to be addressed here, why do you want to include those biographies here instead of creating separate articles if they are notable or remove the info if they are not ?--McSly (talk) 13:37, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

On wikipedia, it is not recommended to delete a complete part, specially when you don't contribute to the article. And more over, it is not fair at all to go on english Misplaced Pages when you don't obtain what you want on the French one and when discussion is pending. So again, respect the work of your colleagues, wait for an answer from them and do not push your point of view. Keep cool. Thanks a lot and have a nice day. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 13:42, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

On wikipedia, it is recommended to be bold. I do respect the work of my fellow editors, but that doesn't change the fact that not relevant information gets deleted all the time. So that's not really an argument. It's not personal, it happens to all of us including myself. It's just part of the process. So again, the only question we have to answer here is about the notability of those people since that having biographies in the middle of the article is off-topic. If they are notable, they get a separate article. If they are not (and I don't think they are), the info is not relevant and should be deleted. So which one is it? Keep in mind that either way, these paragraphs won't stay here.--McSly (talk) 03:28, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I left the question open here for 4 days and didn't get any answer. So I'm removing the section again. Biographies are clearly not the subject of this article and therefore off-topic. Other stuff exists and it doesn't do any harm are not valid arguments. If any of those people fulfill the notability criteria, you can create them as individual article and link to them from here. Here are the (currently red) links: Guy du Merle, Louis Pailhas, Andre Sarreméjean, Alain Soucheleau, Gerard Rozenknop and Marc Houalla. --McSly (talk) 02:39, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

You get an answer on the French Misplaced Pages. Please stop this vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.84.146.194 (talk) 04:38, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

A discussion was open on DRN. If no additional remarks are added there, I will remove the section shortly.--McSly (talk) 02:56, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

The discussion you open, which is a very good idea, does not give us for the moment any additional information about the section. Only one person answered by saying : " I do not care to get into the merits of whether or not these biographies ought to be included or excluded from the article". So for the moment, you cannot remove the section, we should wait for more information. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 07:18, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

The biographies of the directors should be removed this is an article on an educational establishment and not about the individual directors. If the directors are notable enough then all the relevant info can be in a linked article for each individual, other than the names the rest of the info should be deleted. MilborneOne (talk) 21:49, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Hello MilborneOne. Thanks for your message. We have moved the discussion on the page : http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#.C3.89cole_nationale_de_l.27aviation_civile. Could you please join us? Many thanks. Regards. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 20:03, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

 Done. The Work is done. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 11:04, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Badly translated

I appreciate that a lot of the material for the article comes from the French[REDACTED] and due to the translation some of it is badly written and doesnt make sense. Just to give notice when I get some time I will have a go at re-rewriting the worst bits of it. But pending consensus I wont touch the directors bit. MilborneOne (talk) 21:57, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Notable Alumni

To McSly and Racconish. Guys, I think the best option is to start a discussion. If you look on Good articles such as Columbia University or Lindenwood University (or many others), you can see that the current version of the article is perfectly in accordance with good article criteria. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 23:30, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

I have no objection to a section on notable alumni, provided they are notable and alumni. Per WP:BLP asserting these people are alumni must be sourced. Per WP:WTAF and WP:LC a "list of X" - regardless of its form - "should only be created if X itself is a legitimate encyclopedic topic that already has its own article". Per WP:COAT the article should discuss the nominal subject, this school, without covering the tangentially related biased subject of trying to establish the notability of some people. The concern here is very close to the one above on directors biographies, which had been taken to DRN... except there is no proof these people are alumni.— Racconish 05:48, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

If you look the two good articles I mentioned, you can see that the shape, the "way of writing" the notable people part is exactly the same as here. And also, each time there is an alumni, there is a proof, you just have to look carefully. If you still have a doubt, please see http://www.ingenac.fr/annuaire.php. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 08:28, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

And to be honest, I think it is a good idea to go on DRN. It can help us, with other opinions, to make the article better. 80.13.85.217 (talk) 08:45, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree on the fact the link you provided allows to verify if a person really is an alumnus of that school. The 2 articles to which you refer, on Columbia University and Lindenwood University, do name some notable alumni. But (a) these people are clearly notable as evidenced by a blue link to their article and (b) a source is provided to show these people have made explicit reference to their studies in that school. Per WP:INDISCRIMINATE and WP:OC, it is not sufficient that the school is notable and an alumnus is notable, but the notability of the "intersection", i.e. the person being an alumnus of the school should be established, for example by a reference made by the person itself. In any case, as suggested to you at DRN, I will ask for a third opinion on the two following disputed issues : (A) Is it appropriate to mention non notable people (either alumni or teachers) in the article as notable people associated with the school ? (B) Is it sufficient the person is notable, i.e. has a dedicated article in WP, or should its status of either alumnus or teacher be also notable ? Thanks, — Racconish 18:45, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

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