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Institutional collaboration

Perhaps there can be a reference to Archbishop Damaskinos of Athens and his call, along with members of the greek academic community, to halt the deportation of Greek Jews from Nazi occupied Greece. Damaskinos formally protested against the deportation, clashed with the german authorities and was threatened to be shot, in an incident documented by "The International Raoul Wallenberg Foundation" (http://www.raoulwallenberg.net/general/greek-orthodox-church-academic/).

Apart from that, the greek version of the article about the Archibishop claims that he ordered the priests to supply the Jews with certificates of (orthodox) baptism, in order to rescue them from arrest by the Nazis, but i can't provide any source for that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.49.86.12 (talk) 15:20, 1 October 2011

Grammar/punctuation

In the third paragraph: "Where the Germany conquered new territory in eastern Europe, specialized units called Einsatzgruppen murdered Jews and political opponents in mass shootings." The "the" before Germany is unnecessary.

Additionally, the period preceding citation 10 should be inside the quotation marks.

Institutional collaboration

Perhaps there can be a reference to Archbishop Damaskinos of Athens and his call, along with members of the greek academic community, to halt the deportation of Greek Jews from Nazi occupied Greece. Damaskinos formally protested against the deportation, clashed with the german authorities and was threatened to be shot, in an incident documented by "The International Raoul Wallenberg Foundation" (http://www.raoulwallenberg.net/general/greek-orthodox-church-academic/).

Apart from that, the greek version of the article about the Archibishop claims that he ordered the priests to supply the Jews with certificates of (orthodox) baptism, in order to rescue them from arrest by the Nazis, but i can't provide any source for that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.49.86.12 (talk) 15:20, 1 October 2011

Grammar/punctuation

In the third paragraph: "Where the Germany conquered new territory in eastern Europe, specialized units called Einsatzgruppen murdered Jews and political opponents in mass shootings." The "the" before Germany is unnecessary.

Additionally, the period preceding citation 10 should be inside the quotation marks.

Invalid redirection

Trying to access 'Holocaust' redirects to this page. Should it not go to a page about holocausts, rather than redirecting the reader to a page dealing solely with one particular holocaust? kimdino (talk) 17:35, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

? ColaXtra (talk) 17:55, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

see the top of the article page: "Holocaust" and "Shoah" redirect here. For other uses, see Holocaust (disambiguation) and Shoah (disambiguation). cheers. Cramyourspam (talk) 21:18, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Then, the entry “Holocaust” should be the disambiguation page, and this page here should be renamed. It is neither didactical neither neutral to mislead that the word “holocaust” means primarly the jewish genocide. There were other holocausts as well. 85.241.133.47 (talk) 16:22, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

It seems to me that this page would more appropriately be renamed "The Jewish Holocaust". There have been many types of holocausts, and not differentiating it gives the impression that there was only one. This detracts unfairly from all of the other holocausts, and weakens the word itself. ie. "Nuclear holocaust", etc. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 23:43, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

See The Holocaust#Etymology and use of the term. Singularity42 (talk) 04:21, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Nazi genocide or the Holocaust

I've noticed that Colaxtra has been going through this article and replacing "the Holocaust" with "the Nazi genocide." I am confused as to the purpose of this. They are both the same thing, but the Holocaust is the name of this article and is the more commonly used form. --Jethro B 19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree: "the Holocaust" is a proper noun which today refers to the mass murder of Jews by the Nazis. Genocide is a common noun and it is even more confusing when it is argued that the Nazis carried several genocides, i.e. the genocide of the Jews, of the Roma, etc. Historian Timothy Snyder perfers to use the term "mass murders" and thus the Holocaust refers to the mass murder of Jews by the Nazis. Over the past much of the confusion in this article has been generated by a misunderstanding of the difference between a proper noun and a common noun. I must admit that in the flurry of edits, I missed the changes.--Joel Mc (talk) 21:14, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Having taken a closer look, I find that there are apparently only three places where "Nazi genocide" appears to have replaced the Holocaust, and only two seem to be inappropriate: 1. In medical experiments section which clearly refers to the Holocaust, 2. In the Romani section: Himmler is usually referred to as the architect of the Holocaust. In the third case in the East slavs section, it might be clearer to say the "Nazi mass murders".--Joel Mc (talk) 21:36, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

I disagree with the "going through" bit. I certainly recall using Nazi genocide once purely because I felt it fitted better in that context; other than that, I use the term Holocaust just the same as everyone else. Based on a far from complete reading, Henry Friedlander seems to prefer Nazi genocide over Holocaust (I can give you my guess as to why), but, like I said, I use the term Holocaust unless there is some particular reason not to. ColaXtra (talk) 21:53, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

I meant to add, if you don't like using the term at all, ever, just whip out any places where I've put it in. Here is the example I remember: "Another distinctive feature of the Nazi genocide was..." I chose to use Nazi genocide because the sentence was in a comparative context (with other genocides); using the word genocide, I felt, just makes that comparative setting explicit. You don't need to, but that was my thinking: here we are talking of the Holocaust as one genocide being compared with others. Just my thinking, please feel free to revert me if you don't like it. ColaXtra (talk) 21:59, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

And this one—"Heinrich Himmler ... regarded as the 'architect' of the Nazi genocide..."—was simply due to the source being called (you guessed it) Himmler and the Final Solution: The Architect of Genocide. ColaXtra (talk) 22:12, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Cola, I apologize if there was any malice in writing "going through," that is not what I meant. I've only started watching this page a few days ago, and I've noticed it a few times in a few days. If that was incorrect language, I apologize. Thanks for explaining though why you chose it in those cases. --Jethro B 23:43, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Hey, no worries! Better for you to call me on something that concerned you and me give you an explanation you are happy with, than for one editor to not challenge another with something then sneaking in under the radar, so to speak. ColaXtra (talk) 17:27, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Nazi or German Genocide is accurate I believe. Holocaust is a general term. I believe there is importance to attaching Nazi's or Germans, including Hitler, for responsibility of genocide. Cmguy777 (talk) 01:39, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Editing the lede

1. Made the distinction between proper nouns and common noun as there seemed to be some confusion in past discussions. 2. Replaced unreferenced discussion about etymology with referenced explanation. 3. Replaced Britannica reference with Snyder reference. One should avoid referring to other encyclopedias if a scholarly reference is available. 4. Replaced Huffpost ref with Dawidowicz, who is a scholar. 5. Added second reference on Romani issue, Niewyk's chapter is from 2012 6. Rewrote third lede para: no real evidence of a "most common definition" before the 1960s, corrected total figures of Nazi mass murders in light of more up-to-date info.Joel Mc (talk) 16:36, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Like it. ColaXtra (talk) 17:18, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Mussolini

I believe adding information on Mussolini's and the Italian Army's resistance to the deporation of Italian Jews by the German Army would be beneficial to the article up until Mussolini was deposed in 1943. However, Mussolini and the Italian Army massacred the Slavs. This needs to be mentioned also. I request to add a segment on the Italian opposition to Jewish deportation and the massacre of the Slavs. Cmguy777 (talk) 23:04, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Here is a link to the Italian Rab concentration camp. Cmguy777 (talk) 23:30, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Gypsies

The lede does not mention that 250 Gypsies were murdered during the Holocaust. Cmguy777 (talk) 03:21, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Correction: the Romani people are mentioned in the lede. Cmguy777 (talk) 18:40, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Speaking of corrections - I think you'll find that the accepted figure is at least 250 thousand Romani murdered, possibly over a million - I assume your first post is a typo. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:53, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

What belongs in the lead

I removed the material from the lead because material does not belong in the lead unless it also appears elsewhere in the article. WP:LEAD. The lead is supposed to be a summary of the rest of the article, not a stand-alone repository for the facts deemed to be most important. -- Ninja Dianna (Talk) 00:53, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely correct. See also WP:UNDUE. Jayjg 03:19, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

On 2 December Somedifferentstuff twice added material which was replaced over a month ago (24 October 2012). There is an explanation for the replacement on the Talk page (24 October 2012). Problem doesn't totally disappear as the outdated figures found in Niewyk, Donald L.; Nicosia, Francis R. (2000), reappear in the section Victims and death toll, which confuses murder victims with the Holocaust victims (I know of no serious historian who includes the murdered Jehovah Witnesses as Holocaust victims for example) but that is for another day.--Joel Mc (talk) 11:43, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Longerich has a new book, Longerich, Peter (2010). The Holocaust: The Nazi Persecution and Murder of the Jews. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-280436-5. I hope to use it to do some serious re-writes of this article once i am done my current project. The article is nearly double the recommended length. Some of the sections need better sources. The quotation by Mommsen is really long and not very enlightening considering its length; it's got to be removed or paraphrased. And so on. An ambitious project, eh? Stay tuned. -- Dianna (talk) 16:09, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

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