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This article is part of WikiProject New Jersey, an effort to create, expand, and improve New Jersey–related articles to Misplaced Pages feature-quality standard. Please join in the discussion.New JerseyWikipedia:WikiProject New JerseyTemplate:WikiProject New JerseyNew Jersey Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

A fact from Port Imperial Street Circuit appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 November 2011 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know... that veteran NASCAR promoter Humpy Wheeler is an advisor to the Grand Prix of America, a Formula One race to be run in New Jersey (planned track layout pictured) starting in 2013? A record of the entry may be seen at Misplaced Pages:Recent additions/2011/November.

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Article name

I know the circuit does not have an official name just yet, but I have "given" it one. When the United States Grand Prix was first announced at Austin, the circuit itself did not have a name, and so we originally called the page "Austin Formula One circuit". I'm using the same logic here - because the New Jersey circuit is right on top of the Port Imperial ferry terminal, "Port Imperial Street Circuit" seemed like an appropriate name. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:59, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

FWIW, I found a source supporting the name "Port Imperial Street Circuit". I'll add it to the article. DH85868993 (talk) 02:20, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Track map

Can we get somebody to whip up a track map based on the Tilke plan real fast? I'm itching to submit this and the race article to DYK but a map would make it even better. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 17:20, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

If only we knew which layout will be used, that or this? --August90 (talk) 18:26, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Those look exactly the same to my eye - just the image is turned 90°. Here's a rotated version of the WSJ image.- The Bushranger _{One ping only} 18:48, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I assume it will be the one you posted, they showed that in the press conference. --August90 (talk) 18:50, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I'll be ready in 30 min or at least in 1 hour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by August90 (talk • contribs) 19:25, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Awesomesauce! - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 20:57, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I made a SVG map based on OpenStreetMaps, pictured at right. The southeast sections and pit road are approximations based on published maps. Comments? --ChrisRuvolo (t) 21:04, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Turns 1 & 2 should be a bit further and maybe a bit tighter and with a bit longer radius, otherwise great. --August90 (talk) 21:14, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Updated. Better? --ChrisRuvolo (t) 03:24, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

That looks good. --August90 (talk) 07:53, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I wonder if we should include that in the article, as it shows other roads too. One pic showing other roads was removed, because of copyright infringements, so could that replace it? --August90 (talk) 07:15, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Added. Not sure about placement, so please adjust as necessary. Thanks. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 13:19, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think a second image is really necessary. A lot of street circuit articles, like Marina Bay Street Circuit and Valencia Street Circuit show geographical features in the map at the top of the infobox. I see no reason why we cannotdo the same for Port Imperial. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 13:11, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Merge

As stated, this is not an official name, and since this article is esssentially a split from the Grand Prix, why is it necessary to have it sepaarate page, especially at this point? Djflem (talk) 14:57, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Although not yet an official name, a seperate article is necessary because, as with almost every F1 race, the circuit is shared by support series that are not running the "Grand Prix of America". The5₉ (Talk) 22:00, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose - It has a link stating that it is, indeed, an official name, and the circuit pages are kept seperate from the race pages. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:58, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Which link stetes that it's official name? Doesn't seem to be in references Djflem (talk) 02:26, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

here. "The 3.2 mile circuit itself will take the name Port Imperial Street Circuit" - and that predates the Wiki article, too, so it's not taken from there. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:21, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Wikimapia now has it noted as the New Jersey Skyroad Circuit Djflem (talk) 04:04, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Sounds cool. But of course, not a WP:RS! ;) - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 04:08, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

I oppose. As has been stated, there is a precedent for circuits and races having separate pages. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 03:45, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

No stromg feeling here, just felt that two stub/starters which repeat the same information does a disservice to encyclopedia and its readers at this time, despite anticpation that they may expanded at a later date, most likey in 2012 when more info is forthcoming. That said, I have added refs to both, and would suggest that the DYK just go ahead and use the name mentioned in the blog cited here.Djflem (talk) 01:46, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

I oppose, for the same reasons as Prisonermonkeys. --August90 (talk) 11:07, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Elevation change

Would File:Port Imperial HBLR jeh.jpg this image be useful to illustrate the elevation change? --ChrisRuvolo (t) 14:34, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Oooh, cool pic. Looking at the Google Map that's pretty much going to be right behind the pit lane? - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:57, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that will be part of the infield. The stairs go from the train station behind pit road up to Pershing Road, which is the ascent road of the circuit. From there you still go up a bit further to Boulevard East. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 03:02, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Fotos

A selection of fotos visualizes the circuit. Some may not be necessary but they do give an picture of the altitude changes, curves, hairpin, skyline mentioned in article (and w/o elaborate description) give a feel for course, and should be included Hudconja (talk) 19:02, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

No other circuit articles feature a gallery of turn by turn sequences. Circuit de Monaco has a selection of some of the more famous turns integrated into the article, but not a gallery of every single turn. For such a short stubby article a gallery of this size has no place. Further, changes are almost certainly going to have to be made to the streets in order to handle F1 cars, the least of which will be the removal of speed bumps along the path. The5₉ (Talk) 19:11, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Hell, several photos barely even show any actual street, just nearby architecture. How is this relevant? The5₉ (Talk) 19:13, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

I've reverted the article per WP:NOTGALLERY. However having a {{commonscat}} for Port Imperial Street Circuit with these photographs might be a very good idea indeed... - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:29, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Planned/prposed

As noted by The 359 above, the roadway are not race ready, therefore circuit remains proposed or plannned until it isDjflem (talk) 10:30, 18 December 2011 (UTC).

Er, no. "Proposed" and "Planned" mean "it may or may not happen". If a qualifier is needed, "under construction" should be used. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:37, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Until construction has begun, I would still describe it as "planned". --ChrisRuvolo (t) 02:45, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Anything scheduled for 2013 "may or may not happen". However, proposed is for an idea put out but without any official confirmation, se Autosport's recent piece on the proposed return of the Argentine Grand Prix. This however is planned as there are things being actively laid out, construction ongoing, and contracts in place. The5₉ (Talk) 04:08, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

The fact it's under construction makes it more than just planned, though. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 07:53, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

What exactly is more than planned? Something under construction is "planned" to be built a certain awy, but I can name off the top of my head various things changed mid-construction amongst projects of the world, certainly with the finicky world of Ecclestone contracts. The5₉ (Talk) 08:43, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Can you describe in what way it is under construction? Has the road resurfacing started? Have the speed bumps been removed on Pershing Road? Is pit lane being built? I was last on these roads a few weeks ago and there was no construction that was visible to me. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:05, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

There has been work done on the construction of the garage complex so far. Jalopnik. The5₉ (Talk) 17:09, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

While its design and route are on paper, and events have been announced, a race cannot place on the roadways as they now exist, making the circuit theorectical, ie. a plan or proposal. That needs to be made clear in the lead sentence. Using "is" without qualifying is untrue and deceptive, indicating that it is complete. (Even if I have contract (ticket) with Continental to fly from Newark to London on a plane scheduled to leave at 6pm, I check in, go through security, it isn't a flight until the aircraft leaves the ground). Incidentally, the garage under construction was being built before the announcement and would have be built anyway. It is a ferry parking facility that will be utilized during race, but is not being built specifically for it:http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index.ssf/2011/06/weehawken_breaks_ground_for_85.htmlDjflem (talk) 21:21, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Looking at your edits, Djflem, you clearly aren't a regular on the Formula 1 pages. And that's okay. But there are a few subject-specific terms that we use. There aren't actually accepted as official, though. When an event is started up, it needs to have a few things: a contract with the commercial rights holder, and a circuit plan approved by the sport's governing body. Before it has these things, it is in the planned stage. But once the contract has been signed and the circuit plan is approved, the event is confirmed. There can be no changes to the circuit layout without going through the homologation process. This is the stage that the circuit is at - a contract is in place, and the FIA have signed off on the layout. It is more than simply planned or proposed; it is in a state where it is assumed that it will happen (and only a disaster can stop it). Prisonermonkeys (talk) 12:14, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Pre-construction image gallery

I've noticed that the page has been a little unstable of late, with people adding and removing these two images:

So I thought I'd start up a discussion here as to why these images should or should not be included in the article.

Personally, I don't think they should be, for the following reasons:

1. They don't actually show anything. The circuit has not been built yet, and so there is nothing to see in the images, except for a piece of road and a skyline with no context given to them.
2. There is no evidence to show that either image has anything to do with the actual circuit. Hence, they are not reliable sources.
3. The images supposedly "show the circuit's qualities". I'm assuming that this is in response to the content in the article about the elevation changes in the actual circuit, but the problem here is that these "qualities" are not actually something tangible. Changes in elevation have a very unique effect on the downforce generated by a racing car, because it affects the way air travels over a car. This is obviously something that cannot be shown in the form of a picture, and a caption explaining the effect would simply be too lengthy.

I think that addresses every issue with the images. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 04:01, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

The images show the proposed location of the proposed circuit just like map show proposed route. Djflem (talk) 06:22, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

But there is nothing there to distinguish it as being part of the circuit. There is nothing in the photos themselves to show that they are a part of the circuit. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Images of the location of the "proposed" circuit, the reason is was chosen as its site, are appropriate to the article.Djflem (talk) 06:15, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

No other circuit articles have photos of "views that one can see when near the circuit location". These pictures add nothing to the article, quite frankly. Anyone can figure out what a view of Manhattan looks like. The5₉ (Talk) 06:24, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Use of images

Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Images#Pertinence and encyclopedic nature encourages inclusion of images and encourages visual learning, specifically effort should therefore be made to improve quality and choice of images or captions in articles rather than favoring their removal, especially on pages which have few visuals. After several years of searching for an appropriate location in the metro region, the one at Port Imperial was chosen for several reasons (the elevation, the access, the marketing, the backdrop) as mentioned in article and countless references. Until such time as an actual circuit exits, which it does not, providing visual cues to help a reader understand where the circuit may be situated is extremely relevant.Djflem (talk) 08:05, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Why exactly does this need another section? The previous discussion was still ongoing.

The article, for its size, has enough visuals with not one, but two maps. Further, to quote the very MOS you're linking to, you should always be watchful not to overwhelm an article with images by adding more just because you can. The5₉ (Talk) 16:48, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree with The359.

The images are not necessary. They don't contribute anything, because there is currently no circuit there to be shown. And the argument that it highlights the future location of the circuit holds no weight, because there is nothing to distinguish it as being the future location of the circuit. The reader only has the article's word for it, so we could probably show any image of the Manhattan skyline and claim it was the future location of the circuit. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 11:34, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I honestly feel that's a bit of a strawman argument. Yes, you could - but the article doesn't. I personally believe the article is better with the photos included, as it does, in fact, contribute knowledge of how the area the circuit will pass through appears. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 20:34, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit warring

This editing and reversion is growing tiresome quickly. Come to a consensus and stop editing the article to your preferential way, even if it has been days/weeks since the last edit and revert. The5₉ (Talk) 17:42, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

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