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I was going to make the same suggestion. ] (]) 20:02, 9 July 2013 (UTC) I was going to make the same suggestion. ] (]) 20:02, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

== Lead suggestion ==

This is an edit proposal for the lead. It is outside of the now frozen first paragraph, but it might be within the restriction. So to be on the safe side, I'll propose it here. About the second paragraph (starting with ''During its long history, ...''):
:Current text: ''Modern Jerusalem has grown far beyond its boundaries.''
:Proposed text: ''Modern Jerusalem has grown far beyond these boundaries.''
Rationale: "these" makes a fine closure of the paragraph, connection to the content. OTOH, "its" is introducing ambiguity, unnecessary even. -] (]) 10:07, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 10:07, 10 July 2013

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RfC on the lead section has begun

It has been a long time in coming, but the RfC on the lead section has finally opened. This RfC was mandated in this motion by the Arbitration Committee, and its result will be binding for three years, so if you would like a say in how the lead of this article is written then now is your chance. The discussion can be found at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Jerusalem. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius 12:46, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

From Wiki Aelia Capotina

"Aelia Capitolina (/ˈiːliə ˌkæpɨtəˈlaɪnə/; Latin in full: Colonia Aelia Capitolina) was a city built by the emperor Hadrian, and occupied by a Roman colony, on the site of Jerusalem, which was in ruins since 70 AD, leading in part to the Bar Kokhba revolt of 132–136." This contradicts the article on Jerusalem. Indeed the destruction and the Diaspora are reported in amazingly confused ways in general. These issues and of the Jerusalem Christians and successions to James are important. Wblakesx (talk) 20:48, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Unhistorical statenent, ungrounded in any evidence, should be removed or rewritten to avoid a falsification

'Jerusalem has been the holiest city in Jewish tradition since, according to the Hebrew Bible, King David of Israel first established it as the capital of the united Kingdom of Israel in c. 1000 BCE.'

Copied from the Jerusalem rfc. That is almost assuredly completely false, and off-the-planet fiction, though some RS, none of them by competent historians of antiquity, repeat the fantasy. David's inferred date is ca.1000 BCE. The formation of the conception of Jerusalem's holiness arose in post-exilic times some four or five centuries after the age in which David is said to have conquered the city. Yerushalayim 'ir haqodesh occurs at Isaiah (52.1:'O Jerusalem, the holy city' (KJV)), i.e. is the work of the anonymous hand behind the deutero-Isaiah, writing in the second half of the 6th century BCE in Babylon; Judaism, in the form we know it, was a religious culture that took shape between the 6th century BCE and the composition of the Bavli, a millenium later. That is, this totally unencyclopedic assertion of a popular myth anticipates a Jewish sacrality to the city not attested until at the earliest 5 centuries after David's putative reign, and which only consolidated at the heart of the central symbolism of Judaism from that late date through to the 4th century CE; the 'United Kingdom' is a historical hypothesis, doubted by many, based solely on late religious texts that rewrote old traditions to establish an orthodoxy; that David established a 'capital' in Jerusalem, or earlier in Hebron, is itself subject to serious historical doubt. This is one of the most political statements in the lead, and no one appears to notice it, because it doesn't, I guess, deal with the recent conflict. It ain't sexy. You will find general, popular or publicistic sources that might qualify as RS for this statement. The problem is, it is false in terms of what modern biblical criticism and ancient historical inquiries tell us. Nishidani (talk) 12:42, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Result of Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Jerusalem

After thoroughly reading this RfC and the arguments expressed for and against each draft, we have found a consensus for Draft 7 and have decided that it is within our mandate to insert the geographical information from Draft 14 in place of the ellipses of Draft 7. There was a consensus that it is not compliant with NPOV policy to state in the article “Jerusalem is the capital of Israel”, nor is it compliant to state “Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, though not internationally recognized as such”. There was no consensus for any phrasing of Jerusalem’s location in either Israel or Palestine.

We have decided to act under the broad mandate given us by the Arbitration Committee to set the first paragraph of the article in stone to best ameliorate the conflict, rather than instigate further conflict and edit-warring over what should replace the ellipses. Therefore, we have set the first paragraph of Jerusalem as follows:

’’’Jerusalem’’’, located on a plateau in the Judean

Mountains between the Mediterranean and Dead seas, is one of the oldest cities in the world. It is considered holy to the three major Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Israelis and Palestinians both claim Jerusalem as their capital, as Israel maintains its primary governmental institutions there and the State of Palestine ultimately foresees it as its seat of power; however, neither claim is widely

recognized internationally.

To reiterate, this decision is binding for 3 years and no one may add information about Jerusalem’s capital status or location in either Israel or Palestine to the lead.

Thank you for your participation.

Respectfully,

Keilana (talk), Pgallert (talk), and RegentsPark (talk)

Dead seas? nableezy - 18:37, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
I get it now, seas is a reference to the Mediterranean and the Dead Sea. Dont think its that great a phrasing, but oh well. nableezy - 18:39, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Oh, and thanks for spending the time on this. Probably should have led with that. nableezy - 18:42, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps "Dead Sea and Mediterranean Sea" would have a more natural flow? NW (Talk) 18:56, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes. Or even the Mediterranean and the Dead Sea or the Dead Sea and the Mediterranean, as the Mediterranean is often mentioned without the word Sea. But definitely not the current formulation with seas uncapitalized. -- tariqabjotu 18:59, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, that makes more sense grammatically, I'll make that tweak. Thanks for pointing that out. :) Keilana| 19:25, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Well, I got sidetracked from why I came here originally. Thank you to the closers for a job well done. If you want to shoot the Arbitration Committee a message (publicly or privately) with how you think the process went and how you think it could be improved, we would be happy to listen. Best, NW (Talk) 19:01, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
@NuclearWarfare: Thank you, I'll be dropping an email or WT:AC message in a couple days. Keilana| 19:25, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

I have a question on process. I understand that this is binding for 3 years, but if there were to be a consensus established, through normal Misplaced Pages processes, to replace, for example, Israelis and Palestinians with Israel and Palestine, could that proceed? Or is this the only opening sentences that this article will have for the next 3 years? nableezy - 19:45, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Please note the following grammar correction, made by one of the closers:

’’’Jerusalem’’’, located on a plateau in the Judean

Mountains between the Mediterranean and the Dead Sea, is one of the oldest cities in the world. It is considered holy to the three major Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Israelis and Palestinians both claim Jerusalem as their capital, as Israel maintains its primary governmental institutions there and the State of Palestine ultimately foresees it as its seat of power; however, neither claim is widely

recognized internationally.

I was going to make the same suggestion. Apteva (talk) 20:02, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Lead suggestion

This is an edit proposal for the lead. It is outside of the now frozen first paragraph, but it might be within the restriction. So to be on the safe side, I'll propose it here. About the second paragraph (starting with During its long history, ...):

Current text: Modern Jerusalem has grown far beyond its boundaries.
Proposed text: Modern Jerusalem has grown far beyond these boundaries.

Rationale: "these" makes a fine closure of the paragraph, connection to the content. OTOH, "its" is introducing ambiguity, unnecessary even. -DePiep (talk) 10:07, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

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