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::::::: Look, it is quite obvious from the edit history of MM that he is a previously blocked user. Like others I am pretty sure it is SS, but the SPI check was unable to make the connection because of Proxy Server use. Another SPI of Miles linked to SS would likely end up the same. ] (]) 02:27, 18 December 2013 (UTC) ::::::: Look, it is quite obvious from the edit history of MM that he is a previously blocked user. Like others I am pretty sure it is SS, but the SPI check was unable to make the connection because of Proxy Server use. Another SPI of Miles linked to SS would likely end up the same. ] (]) 02:27, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
::::::::What's obvious is that you'll do or say anything to get your way. "Fellow traveler" is not only a common phrase, it's one associated with the John Birch Society, which I've been thank to Arthur Rubin. But, hey, any desperate excuse to disrupt an SPI on an actual sock who supports your right-wing agenda. ] (]) 03:58, 18 December 2013 (UTC) ::::::::What's obvious is that you'll do or say anything to get your way. "Fellow traveler" is not only a common phrase, it's one associated with the John Birch Society, which I've been thank to Arthur Rubin. But, hey, any desperate excuse to disrupt an SPI on an actual sock who supports your right-wing agenda. ] (]) 03:58, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::Yes, while it is true that I have only ever seen the phrase used by StillStanding-247, I see we have an ] on the phrase, and I wish to '''withdraw the insinuation'''. I see in WP space. ]] (]) 04:17, 18 December 2013 (UTC)


======<span style="font-size:150%">Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments</span>====== ======<span style="font-size:150%">Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments</span>======

Revision as of 04:17, 18 December 2013

Belchfire

Belchfire (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

Populated account categories: confirmed · suspected

For archived investigations, see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Belchfire/Archive.



16 December 2013

– A user has requested CheckUser. An SPI clerk will shortly look at the case and endorse or decline the request.

Suspected sockpuppets

Roccodrift seems to be a fairly obvious sock, most likely of User:Belchfire. I first spotted them abusing User:MilesMoney with multiple talk page templates the way Belchfire used to abuse users the primary difference being that Belchfire had thousands of edits and Roccodrift has about 200.

They seem to have significant overlap at Talk:Political activities of the Koch brothers, as well as articles related to US politics, homosexuality, conservatism, and Christianity.

Also, for behavioral, compare the edit summaries of the following diffs:

Belchfire: Roccodrift:

Because of apparent previous Belchfire socks, I'd like a CU on this. ~Adjwilley (talk) 06:50, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Comments by other users

Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

  • Rocco was identified as a sock almost immediately, but until recently, it wasn't clear whose. When Hyper3 called him out, Rocco didn't even bother to deny it. He just ignored it. But when Adjwilley named him, he panicked and wiped his talk page clean. After AdjWilley took this as an admission of guilt, Rocco ignored it again, until I prodded him on ANI. When he did respond, he once again didn't bother denying anything, but instead tossed out a red herring about not assuming good faith before saying "Either you have a case to make or you don't. I can't decide that for you, now can I?" I think this speaks for itself.
Belchfire was before my time, but (ironically, thanks to AdjWilley) I'd run into his edits before. After AdjWilley dropped the name, I did some digging and I have to admit that there's a strong resemblance in terms of article interests, right-wing bias, and aggressive personality. I'm on record as being skeptical about AdjWilley's ability to detect socks, but I must concede that this case not only includes an obvious sock, but a likely match for the foot. MilesMoney (talk) 08:48, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
  • This is good sleuthing work by Adjwilley. Last night before retiring I was looking around to see if I could make a case for connecting Rocco as a sock of Belchfire but I thought it would take too much time, that I would try again today. I wake to find the work already done! Binksternet (talk) 14:46, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
  • I have to concur with this, having first become suspicious that Roccodrift was Belchfire after seeing this edit. I decided to IAR and look the other way because it seemed that he was being more reasonable than in the past, and perhaps trying to make a fresh start. I changed my mind after seeing that he dragged MilesMoney to ANI.
I'm adding Seattle IP 97.113.5.118 (talk · contribs) who edited at Focus on the Family in a very Belchfiresque fashion, notably going head-to-head with Roscelese (with whom he is WP:IBANned) here and here. - MrX 23:41, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
  • I hope I'm wrong (and I apologize in advance if I am) but I noticed a lot of overlap with NazariyKaminski, so I'm going to add them to the list. MilesMoney (talk) 01:37, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
  • This all makes me wonder sometimes if the Koch brothers sock farm wasn't dealt with properly, and if they are still active, but now using different usernames. They were caught redhanded and an SPI sort of dealt with them, but is anyone following up on any possible connections, like the ISPs from New Media Strategies, the ad agency the Koch brothers hired to promote their interests here? Are those ISPs still being used? For those who are unaware, or have forgotten, here are some links:
We have serious ownership issues with a number of these right wing articles. They are nearly untouchable and whitewashed. -- Brangifer (talk) 07:53, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
This is interesting, but I guess we shouldn't be surprised. Still, it's hard to tell whether someone is paid to be biased or came into that bias organically. Really, it shouldn't matter: POV-pushing should be dealt with for its own sake. Unfortunately, what you said about whitewashed articles is an understatement. In fact, I ran a little experiment today to test that claim and it worked. MilesMoney (talk) 08:34, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
Making Pointy edits does little more than piss people off. But that does seem to be your goal. Arzel (talk) 15:06, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Major problems with this complaint: Checking "editor interaction" the lack of overlap is astounding for a claim of socking ... Belchfire has zero overlap with Kaminski, who only overlaps with Rocco on three pages total, and whose edits do not appear to me to be evidence of much at all, other than not being in accord with the complainant. Looking therefore at times of activity -- we have a complete difference in times for all three -- with Belch not editing from 9 to 15, NK not from 2 to 11, RD not from 11 to 17. Belch has enough edits that this indicates a clear sock-fishing expedition here. Nor do I find any use of similar language or summaries to be evident. SPI is not a place for fishing where even a rudimentary investigation shows it to be one. Collect (talk) 15:29, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Life is full of funny coincidences. For example, we talk about paid editors with right-wing bias, and suddenly Arzel and Collect appear, full of good cheer accusations and excuses. There's no explaining it! If I wasn't assuming good faith just as hard as I can, who knows what strange ideas might come to my head?
On the other hand, editing at different times is pretty easy to explain. Read WP:SIGNS before you come to the defense of your fellow traveler. Look, it's painfully obvious that Rocco is a sock. If you were in the mood to do something good for Misplaced Pages instead of just good for the GOP, perhaps you could tell us all who he is if not Belchfire. Think of all the good will it would garner. MilesMoney (talk) 15:49, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
Could they all be Jimbo? I suppose. The question is evidence which is not here. Not editing from 9 to 15 usually indicates West Coast of US. Not editing from 11 to 17 is usually Hawaii if the person is in the US. Not editing from 2 to 11 would normally be mid-Atlantic Ocean to Brazil. Your major problems are the actual lack of overlap on articles, the lack of language similarity, and the lack of unusual edit summaries. Cheers -- SPI is again not a fishing expedition because you disagree with anyone. As for your claim that I am a "fellow traveler" of anyone -- that is a gross misuse of the purpose of the noticeboard. Collect (talk) 16:11, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
Could we please curtail the personal attacks and assumptions of bad faith?
I think there is sufficient evidence beyond just the edit overlap to warrant a CU on Roccodrift per WP:PRECOCIOUS and WP:DUCK. The IP is very obviously Belchfire, based on geography and telltale talk page edits. I'm not convinced that NazariyKaminski is a Belchfire sock, but evidence might change my mind. - MrX 16:08, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
"Fellow traveler"? I've heard that phrase exactly once before on Misplaced Pages. StAnselm (talk) 19:44, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
A couple more times than that, actually. It was a phrase that User:StillStanding-247 liked to use, and used specifically of User:Collect. StAnselm (talk) 19:53, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
Oh, the old house is STILL STANDING, though the paint is cracked and dry, and there's that old oak tree that - I used to play on . . . . Badmintonhist (talk) 21:54, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
So much for dignity and respect. How about taking these last couple of remarks to the appropriate SPI if you wish to pursue them? This is starting to cross into the realm of disruption. - MrX 22:19, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
Agreed. "Fellow traveler" happens to be a very common expression. One's biases determine where one notices it and whether one remembers its use. -- Brangifer (talk) 02:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Look, it is quite obvious from the edit history of MM that he is a previously blocked user. Like others I am pretty sure it is SS, but the SPI check was unable to make the connection because of Proxy Server use. Another SPI of Miles linked to SS would likely end up the same. Arzel (talk) 02:27, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
What's obvious is that you'll do or say anything to get your way. "Fellow traveler" is not only a common phrase, it's one associated with the John Birch Society, which I've been studying up on thank to Arthur Rubin. But, hey, any desperate excuse to disrupt an SPI on an actual sock who supports your right-wing agenda. MilesMoney (talk) 03:58, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Yes, while it is true that I have only ever seen the phrase used by StillStanding-247, I see we have an article on the phrase, and I wish to withdraw the insinuation. I see 62 occurrences in WP space. StAnselm (talk) 04:17, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
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