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Helpme Request

How can one creates two articles with exactly same names. For instance, there is an article on Dawn, but Dawn is also a leading Newspaper of Pakistan. How can I create another article with the name Dawn without replacing the first one. Faisal 12:32, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Usually you need to disambiguate articles with the same name. So in this case, i'd suggest creating the article Dawn (newspaper). --Spook 12:47, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry it is not a good solution. It is because, if someone will search for Dawn he will not find Dawn Newspaper. Is it possible that page about Dawn has link to Dawn (newspaper) ?

Also In future what will you suggest if there are two Newspaper with name Dawn? (Dawn Newspaper Country1 and Dawn Newspaper Country2). Not good. In long run I suggest in such a case, the main page should have links to all the relevent articles for example see HEC.

Faisal 12:57, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Dawn already has such a page. See Dawn (disambiguation).

Also, if you were to search for Dawn after creating Dawn (newspaper), you'll find that the newspaper article will show up. --Spook 06:00, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I saw that you live in Pakistan and I found an article about a Pakistanean that needs some expanding. Sadequain User:Englishfun.

Thank for your message. However, I do not have interest and expertise required expand Sadequain article. I am not interested in Art at all. --- Faisal 14:43, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I want to know that who to check a wikipedia-editor's IP address and what law is broken if a banned user make changes in the article without getting logged in. Is banning means the IP address is banned or his login facility or both of them.

Tell me the page and I'll look into it. Sasquatch t|c 15:35, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

It is Dhimmi page, (see its history) that page was usually not edited by people not registered. But since User:Pecher is banned for a day, there are lots of edits from unregistered User (IP addresses). I want to see if I could establish any link between banned User:Pecher and the IP addresses used. May be I am wrong but still I like to check. I will appreciate your help. ---- Faisal 15:41, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, the one IP (User:128.32.39.126) has been editing that page for a while. Otherwise, as for User:24.7.102.19, it seems that's coming from america as opposed to the Ukraine and there isn't enough evidence there for me to consider that any other action is needed. Hope that helps! Sasquatch t|c 15:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes indeed. Thank you for your time. --- Faisal 15:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

2nd help request

Are all the websites unreliable resource or only the one associated with terrorist, personal-website, log website etc. I have already read WP:RS. I know that it is recomended to use books instead of website. Books are good. However, using website should be allowed when some scholar write there. The website Islamonline is NOT a personal-website, logs-website, terroist-website, associated with some organization. The website aim is following

Global presentation: Addressing humanity; avoiding ties with or speaking for any country, party, group, council, or organization. Comprehensive content: Presenting a whole and complementary image of Islam in the information and service pages. Balanced approach: Adopting the middle ground of Islam, avoiding extremism or negligence, rejecting deviant or strange opinions. Objective treatment: Striving for scientific accuracy, adopting neutrality and avoiding pre-judgments. Moral approach: Avoiding slander or praise of individuals, groups or states, avoiding propagandist and sensational methods, or provocation and incitement. Pleasant presentation: Ensuring that all contents are displayed professionally and enjoyably.

Usually a good scholar write and answer questions. Why one cannot say Scholar ABC says on islamonline ? Is only have islam in the name make that website unreliable. I want to contact with administrators and find wiki-stand about it. Please help me. --- Faisal 17:45, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I am here to help you, but what is your question? Sorry if I missed it:) Eagle talk 18:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your responce. In fact there is a dispute created by User:Pecher. I add some good material of some good scholars from Islamonline and he revert it back. Hence I want to contact with administrators to have a decision in this issue/dispute. I want to contact with many administrators. See following.

For example, Sir Thomas Arnold, an orientalist of the early 20th century, in his "Call to Islam" has argued: -

This tax (jizya) was not imposed on the Christians, as some would have us think, as a penalty for their refusal to accept the Muslim faith. Rather, it was paid by them in common with the other dhimmis or non-Muslim subjects of the state whose religion precluded them from serving in the army, in return for the protection secured for them by the arms of the Muslims. When the people of Hirah contributed the sum agreed upon, they expressly mentioned that they paid this jizyah on condition that ‘the Muslims and their leader protect us from those who would oppress us, whether they be Muslims or others.

This and other such stuff is reverted by Pecher (see ) with comments that islamonline is not accepted and not reliable. He continue humilating me saying that read WP:RR. Hence I want get support of administators or get some decision on this issue. Please guide me, what I suppose to do? --- Faisal 17:59, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Need your Help

I need support in editing the page for Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh from Pakistani-Wikipedians. The page concludes Pakistans link to 9/11 using information from Indian press and much information in that page is without proper references. The page says that ISI gives money to Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh and Sheikh then wired the money to Atta. I have checked some of the references on that page and information in the references is different from what is mentioned in it. I will appreciate any help because I have very less free time these days... Faisal 16:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for mentioning this, actually I hardly come to[REDACTED] these days due to time constraints. --Falcon007 20:10, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Dear Faisal,

I think, the page Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh has now been edited and probably curtailed much.

Apart from it, unfortunately there are many Muslim freedom fighters, war-lords etc. who directly or indirectly have been involoved in acts of terrorism or at least there are so many references and media clippings that say so. Hence it is not easy to deny those evidence. No doubt, many anti-Islam and "orthodox secular" elements often capatilize the situation in order to defame Pakistan by distorting facts and demonize Islam by linking any accident with Jihad.

But rather falsifying the incidence we should focus on causes and consequences of such events. On ther other hand, Muslim masses support every anti-western act (whether it for or against techings of Islam) without realizing its repercussions. Aftermath of 9/11 inccident has further aggravated the situation against followers of Islam. And it is pity that we are far behind in hilighting the other side of the coin by producing concrete counter research and indepth analysis. Thus adequate amount of online references donot exist that could help in propagating your viewpoint. Now-a-days, perception matters more than reality...

Imran 1:25 (UTC), February 20, 2006

Imran, Falcon007, Szhaider and Spasage for your support in changing the article. Please keep a watch in it so that someone does not revert back it. ---- Faisal 20:04, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Spasage User page

I don’t know how to be nice but please don’t add text in my user page. There are many different ways to contact me. (Details) --Spasage 07:45, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I just had added a new category in your user page. Do you think it means that I was contacting you? very Strange! I thought I was improving your page. Faisal 09:19, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh

Did you check Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh? --Spasage 09:41, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes brother, it is a really great work. I hope that it will stay that way and someone will not revert back the changes. I have added the page in my watch list so that I could revert the change to your version in case those propoganda people come back and try to restore propoganda. ---- Faisal 11:41, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for your kind words, it does much to lift my spirits to know that my work is appreciated :) Your wish does not bother me at all, I took a course in University on Islamic Studies, and (because I loved the professor, who was helpful, polite and loved Islam herself) it was likely my favourite course, to study the history of the Caliphate, the Empires, the Rashidun, all of it interests me a great deal :)

I do not want to sound patronizing, but the two aspects of Islam that most appealed to me, were that -

• 1) I have a strong belief in the unconditional, in life and in religion. For many Christians, religion is just something they do once a week, or a few times every year, and then they call themselves "Christian" even though they have never learned anything, or changed their lives. It seems to me that while this happens in every religion, Christianity has probably the most people like this, and Islam has relatively few.
• 2) I have always refused to believe that Jesus is God, I think I remember from Islamic Studies that is called shirk, but it is always my belief since I was a child :) I believe strongly in God, and that he has sent prophests to Earth, some to help us, some to show us the way, some to save us. But they are all human. traditional Christianity doesn't really offer any place for an absolute oneness of God. Unitarianism offered a belief in the oneness of God, while recognising Jesus as a prophet and Messiah...but not a deity - unfortunately Unitarianism joined with Universalism throughout North America and much of Europe, and while I believe in Unitarianism, I do not believe in Universalism :)

What bothers me most on Misplaced Pages is how many editors want to judge people they write about, they will write about Charles Whitman and want to judge him as a psychopath. They want to write about Mohamed Atta al-Sayed and they want to say he is a monster. They want to say that the Kent State shootings are only the fault of the government, nobody else. This bothers me, because as writers we need to understand that our first job is to understand people, and then to record what they did. As humans, it is not our place to judge whether somebody was evil, good or anything else.

I wish you many future months and years on Misplaced Pages, it is a great project, but it requires many people like you :) If you would ever like to talk, about Misplaced Pages, Islam, or anything else - I have MSN Messenger at Joshua_Sherurcij@Hotmail.com :) Sherurcij 16:34, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Caliph article

Ibrahim, I reverted your edits on the caliph article. Here's why. You removed a note in a discussion of shura in pre-Islamic Arabia. The note said that members of the leading clan got extra consideration when it came time to choose leaders. That's supported by the work that Fred Donner has done, in his book The Early Arab Conquests. You weren't there, you don't know how it was, and a belief that it "shouldn't" be that way can't change the practices of people long dead. You removed the para on the Ibadi for the same reason, that you believe that all Sunnis share the Ibadi belief that lineage doesn't count. Really? Have you interviewed all the Sunni in the world?

WHEN there was a caliphate (as opposed to the later and incomplete Ottoman assumption of the role), when the choice of a caliph was a pressing issue, the Sunni DID agree that there was a noble clan, a leading clan, from which leaders should be chosen. That clan was the Quraysh. Only the Ibadis disagree with that. The Shi'a just took the lineage principle even further and said that it should not only be the Quraysh, it should be the descendents of Muhammad.

You may be one of the Muslims who believe that the caliphate should be revived. If so, your beliefs belong, as one POV (point of view), in the section on current attitudes towards the caliphate. They should not be allowed to thwart a look at what people of the past did or believed. Zora 18:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Lets talk on the Caliph talk page. --- Faisal 09:02, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Your comment

Hi Ibrahim, your comment on Talk:Dhimmi: " ... we will present the context and event (according to different/many-many Muslim scholars, not according to some Jews writer who hate Islam) ..." was inappropriate. The source is either reliable (in the sense of being a published author in that field, or a person qualified to discuss the issues) or is not. Whether they're Jewish, Muslim, black, white, male, or female is completely irrelevant. SlimVirgin 20:59, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I was NOT referring to all the Jews but a specific author that I believe is really biased towards Islam (and hate Islam). I do not want to mention his name hence I called him a Jew author. He is quoted often in that article. I am really sorry if I hurt your feeling. I meant to say that one should also quote many Muslim scholars when interpreting Quran. See they never quote a good (highly regarded) Muslim scholar when talk about Quran. At least let me say that it is not a right attitude.

I am going to change my wording there. --- Faisal 21:07, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Faisal,

What I meant was that the sources you'd added to the article aren't up to[REDACTED] standards. We want to go with reliable scholarly and whenever possible secular sources, not Islamic websites. That Dhimmi were exempt from zakat is well-known, and is covered by the current cites. I went in to the Taxation section, where it was already mentioned, and made this more explicit. I hope this addresses your objection in this regard.Timothy Usher 21:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Faisal, the Qur'an itself speaks of jizya as oppression (). This passage would make little sense if one substituted, "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they are exempted from zakat and miltary service in exchange for a nominal fee, and feel themselves equal."Timothy Usher 21:43, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Re marriage, I don't think anyone is thinking that Dhimmi are worse off than non-Dhimmi non-Muslims. Anyhow, what difference does it make? The point is that Muslim women are reserved for Muslim men, while non-Muslim women are up for grabs. What spin should be placed on this? Is there an equitable explanation you can offer?Timothy Usher 21:47, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

"Why there is any oppression. Do you know that Abu Bakar fight with a group that refuses to pay the Zikat. So the rule is equal to all. I find no oppression there (anyone who refuse tax will deal with a fight Muslim/non-Muslim) Is that not same in USA.

"If I do not pay my tax they USA Govt. fight with me. is that oppression?"

It is if you're say, Egyptian, and the United States were to attack Egypt until all Egyptians pay a tax to the United States.

Re: Abu Bakr and the so-called Ridda wars, the "apostates" were intimidated into paying taxes to Madina to begin with. You really think they wanted to give their money away? When Muhammad died, they saw a chance to regain their freedom and gave it a shot. They lost. Is that oppression? You bet.Timothy Usher 21:51, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

" The family goes with the name of male not from female. Hence if a female marry with a non-muslim male then its children will be non-muslim. so the rule is okay."

Well, to you, it might be okay, but only under the premise that children ought be Muslim, which to non-Muslims isn't obvious. You are proposing that inequality in the treatment of religion is justified because...it promotes an unequal propagation of religion. Still not seeing the fairness. Nor do I accept that this is the only reason. It is that it would be considered a dishonor for "our" women to be taken by "them", while dishonor (so it's perceived) in the other direction is perfectly alright.

Can you find the verse that says "Allah does not forbid you regarding those who have not killed you, because of your deen. That you be good with them and be just with them. For Allah love that just"

Well, I agree with this verse, and if that's what Islam was like generally, might have converted some time ago. And I agree with you that it contradicts 9:29, which, if I'm not mistaken, came later.Timothy Usher 22:14, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I never said it contadicts with other one. Okay bye ..... --- Faisal 22:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Faisal, Egypt is actually one of the largest foreign-aid recipients of the United States. My tax dollars go to Egypt, essentially to keep commerce flowing through the Suez, which Egypt seized in 1956 (and collects revenue from it as well). I'll read the link you forwarded and get back to you.Timothy Usher 22:23, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

3rr

I'm not following Dhimmi anymore, and I don't think I would be seen as a neutral admin. If you think 3rr has been violated, your should prepare a report and post it to Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR. Best wishes, Tom Harrison 19:34, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Ibrahimfaisal, it is of course up to you to report other editors for passing 3rr, but if I were you, I wouldn't have reported Pecher. It is not enjoyable at all to see other editors of being blocked? It is sad to see you rejoicing in seeing him blocked? Aminz

I am not rejoicing at all. But yes I want the article Dhimmi changed and it might help to give him warning so that he can limit his number of edits. Its not personal. I know he would be back soon anyway. --- Faisal 16:04, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

If you ask me, Percher deserves to be blocked.--Dr.Worm 18:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

A source

Hi Ibrahimfaisal,

Please have a look at:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=289&letter=I&search=dhimmi#806

I am copy/pasting it here. I think you may be able to find good additions to the article dhimmi from here. This is quoted from Jewish Encyclopedia; is more unbiased than many other sources but is not supposed to be perfect. I need to look into other encyclopedia's as well. This other link may also be useful (I have already added a bit from this to the article http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1654&letter=A#4894 )

The different tendencies in the codifications are shown in divergences in the decrees attributed to the prophet. While one reads, "Whoever does violence to a dhimmi who has paid his jizyah and evidenced his submission—his enemy I am" ("Usd al-Ghaba," iii. 133), people with fanatical views haveput into the mouth of the prophet such words as these: "Whoever shows a friendly face to a dhimmi is like one who deals me a blow in the side" (Ibn Ḥajar al-Haitami, "Fatawi Ḥadithiyyah," p. 118, Cairo, 1307). Or: "The angel Gabriel met the prophet on one occasion, whereupon the latter wished to take his hand. Gabriel, however, drew back, saying: 'Thou hast but just now touched the hand of a Jew.' The prophet was required to make his ablutions before he was allowed to take the angel's hand" (Dhahabi, "Mizan al-I'tidal," ii. 232, 275). These and similar sayings, however, were repudiated by the Mohammedan ḥadithcritics themselves as false and spurious. They betray the fanatical spirit of the circle in which they originated. Official Islam has even tried to turn away from Jews and Christians the point of whatever malicious maxims have been handed down from ancient times. An old saying in regard to infidels reads: "If ye meet them in the way, speak not to them and crowd them to the wall." When Suhail, who relates this saying of the prophet, was asked whether Jews and Christians were intended, he answered that this command referred to the heathen ("mushrikin"; "Musnad Aḥmad," ii. 262).

Under the dominion of the Ommiads the followers of other religious faiths were little disturbed, since it was not in keeping with the worldly policy of those rulers to favor the tendencies of fanatical zealots. Omar II. (717-720) was the only one of this worldly-wise dynasty who trenched upon the equal privileges of unbelievers; and he was under the pietistic influence. Intolerance of infidels and a limitation of their freedom were first made a part of the law during the rule of the Abbassids (see Abbassid Califs), who, to bring about the ruin of their predecessors, had supported theocratic views and granted great influence to the representatives of intolerant creeds (comp. "Z. D. M. G." xxxviii. 679; "R. E. J." xxx. 6). Under them also the law was introduced compelling Jews to be distinguished by their clothing ("ghiyar"; Abu Yusuf, "Kitab alKharaj," pp. 72-73, Bulak, 1302). At a later period such distinguishing marks became frequent in the Mohammedan kingdoms, especially in North Africa, where the badge was known as "shaklah" (Fagnan, "Chroniques des Almohades et des Hafçidcs Attribué à Zerkechi," p., 19, Constantine, 1895).

Thanks,

Aminz

Dhimmi

When it comes to Dhimmis clearly what the Quran says is important and relevant. It may not call all Jews and Christians apes and pigs, but the terms are used by Muslims for Jews and Christians and they are clearly derived from the Quran. What is wrong with pointing that out? I do not think it is against Muhammed's teachings to insult pagans, Jews and Christians although if you have evidence I would be happy to see it. Certainly the Quran is full of insults. The article needs to reflect Muslim behaviour and Islamic teaching - and be careful not to confuse the two. If you delete any false things I will be happy. But is that what you are doing? Lao Wai 14:37, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Friendly reminder

Thank you for the reminder, faisal. But in that article , i was the one who was protecting the contents of the article ,unlike the others who were trying to blanking it.Therefore i am not sure whether i broke the revert rule myself.Anyway,now I have asked one administrator to look into that article.

Regards.Bharatveer 12:53, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Ofcourse, yes. We can discuss in the talk page regarding the changes.Bharatveer 13:23, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

helpme removal

I'm sorry. I noticed you had the tag and was going to offer help, but the odd placement of it in the middle of a discussion confused me. I figured that maybe another editor had forgot to remove it. But now that I'm here, what can I do for you? — ßottesiηi 22:35, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Read what I have asked above please. Where should I post information about, above mentioned dispute? --- Faisal 22:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

If you don't mind, I would appreciate it if you could copy and paste the relevant question or summarize it below as I am having a hard time determining what you need help with. — ßottesiηi 22:47, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

:(- Where I should post the request to the group of administartors in case of dispute between two parties? The dispute is regarding a source/reference. I refer to a source and other person revert my change saying it is not reliable. I need some support from administrators against that User. So they can banned/stopped that User from revert my change stating wrong reason. --- Faisal 22:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I can help you now. I'm certainly not going to take sides on the issue, but am going to point you to the mediation cabal (a less formal dispute resolution system), or if you would like a mentor to back you up (that is if he/she agrees with you) go to the association of member's advocates. — ßottesiηi 23:02, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I am confused that where I should go. Both will resolve dispute? right? but the later will be more helpful? Can I go to both places (at the same time)? --- Faisal 23:16, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I would not recommend going to both places at the same time. From your question it seems like you are seeking more of a members' advocate, but my advice is to go to the mediation cabal (I am a member of both, so ask if you need help with any of the processes). If my status says I'm out, I really am either offline or maybe doing something where I don't have time for really dealing with Misplaced Pages, so keep that in mind, but I am online often, and you can always add the helpme tag again. — ßottesiηi 23:33, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. --- Faisal 23:35, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I should also note that there is probably going to be a delay in someone taking your case wherever you go (anywhere from a couple of minutes to several days) — ßottesiηi 23:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Personal attacks

I'll drop Pecher a note on civility and give him a warning. — ßottesiηi 18:56, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

No please do not this time. May be next time. Thank you --- Faisal 18:58, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, too late. But it was not a disciplinary action at all, just a warning. — ßottesiηi 19:03, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay --- Faisal 19:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Haram

It was because I occasionally go on "Haram patrol", making sure that none of the links to Haram should actually be to Haraam or Haram, Norway... AnonMoos

My talk page

It seems that you are continuing a conversation with another user on my talk page that may be more appropriately located on that user's page or your own. — ßottesiηi 20:32, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay :) . sorry. --- Faisal 20:35, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

May be there is another dispute about reliable resources, which I need to post someday somewhere. I will not reply him any more on your talk page. --- Faisal 20:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

More on personal attacks

They are in response to these comments of Pecher.

Faisal, you may want to start an Islamopedia, where you will be able to push your ahistorical POV that the article "Dhimmi" must not extend beyond Rashidun entirely unopposed. This is, however, Misplaced Pages, a secular encyclopedia, where the policy on reliable sources applies, even if these sources say something you dislike. Pecher 07:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC) --- Faisal 19:27, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

That was an umpteenth reminder to you, Faisal, by me and other editors to abide by Misplaced Pages policies. Pecher 20:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I feel you saying me that: I may want to start an Islamopedia,... to push my POV, as an attack. However, let now forget all and start fresh.

Please let me keep the orginal heading of the section. Do not change the heading of the section from "Critisum" to "Humiliating nature of Jizya". It will make the topic very much non-neutral and one sided. I am talking about this. --- Faisal 20:18, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I will mind much less if you report me than giving reminder without any reason. So report me next time and stop giving the reminders. Because the things you say are not reliable resources are reliable resources according to me, when quoted correctly. Hence if you keep saying me read WP:RS which I have already read. Then your reminder is not useful. --- Faisal 20:31, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I've already seen that my reminder is not useful because you keep ignoring it. There is a difference between reliable sources according to you and according to WP:RS. Pecher 20:34, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Same I think too about you. That there is difference between reliable sources according to you and according to WP:RS. Hence to make a decision we need someone neutral who can decide. --- Faisal 20:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I believe following is quoted rightly from islamonline.com. That is

. Sir Thomas Arnold, an orientalist of the early 20th century, in his "Call to Islam" has argued: -

This tax (jizya) was not imposed on the Christians, as some would have us think, as a penalty for their refusal to accept the Muslim faith. Rather, it was paid by them in common with the other dhimmis or non-Muslim subjects of the state whose religion precluded them from serving in the army, in return for the protection secured for them by the arms of the Muslims. When the people of Hirah contributed the sum agreed upon, they expressly mentioned that they paid this jizyah on condition that ‘the Muslims and their leader protect us from those who would oppress us, whether they be Muslims or others.

and islamonline.com is acceptable according to WP:RS because it moto is following.

Global presentation: Addressing humanity; avoiding ties with or speaking for any country, party, group, council, or organization. Comprehensive content: Presenting a whole and complementary image of Islam in the information and service pages. Balanced approach: Adopting the middle ground of Islam, avoiding extremism or negligence, rejecting deviant or strange opinions. Objective treatment: Striving for scientific accuracy, adopting neutrality and avoiding pre-judgments. Moral approach: Avoiding slander or praise of individuals, groups or states, avoiding propagandist and sensational methods, or provocation and incitement. Pleasant presentation: Ensuring that all contents are displayed professionally and enjoyably.

Now tell me that why you think above is violation of WP:RS? --- Faisal 20:51, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Pecher I have to leave now for a trip (long drive). I will try to get on the internet to see your reply if possible. If we are not sucessful in finding what WP:RS says then we should go to some group of administrators. Okay bye. --- Faisal 20:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Pecher I am back from my trip but you have not reply to above. Now what should I do. Put the above quote in the Jizya article or wait for your reply. --- Faisal 16:36, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Help needed :-)

Hi, How are things? I noted that you have had some problem with hotshots thiking that they now better then others and maybe you noticed that there is a form of vandalism with users just deleting every article they can, aspecially thouse they of some reson dont like... they even have a own group Deletionists here on Wiki. Now they start again to try to delete some of the articles I wrote, original article was on Wiki for 5 years before they got hands on them.. could you visit Global Reserve Bank and se if you whant/can support me? Your Swedish friend. --Swedenborg 17:18, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Your message

It's strange that you expected me to reply to your comment addressed to me that you made on your talk page. We've already gone through this before, and I'm not going to waste my tim erepaeating it over and over again that there is no clause in WP:RS confirming that anonymous writings on a private website quoting someone who lived in the 18th-century is reliable source. Please don't bother me with this any more. Pecher 17:16, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Assalumu alaikum Faisal.

Thanks for your comments on my Muhammad edit. By the way, I've thought about leaving WP too, but I decided that I won't let the vandals and anti-Muslims here win. Also, don't forget that many non-Muslims help to protect the Islam pages too. Hope you decide to stay. W'salam. MP (talk) 20:03, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Waaliakum Assalam.

I have decided to stay. I wish if there is better cooperation amoung Muslim wikipedian so that Islamic article could be protected better and improve. Have you seen The The Muslim Guild Wassalam --- Faisal 20:09, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Personal attacks

Faisal, you've restored a rightfully-removed personal attack against another editor. Personal attacks are not allowed on Misplaced Pages. It's that simple. Don't restore them. Thanks.Timothy Usher 20:37, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

In addition, please remove the attack from the page. --Tony Sidaway 20:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I am instead thinking to put this Karl Meier Saying on my page. --- Faisal 20:51, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Please remove "I think that some specific people group is using[REDACTED] for their propoganda." from your userpage. This is a personal attack against a group of editors. Pecher 20:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Report it. How can be it "personal" attack when I have not given any names. If I had specify names then it might be a personal attack. --- Faisal 21:04, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting the edit as I requested. --Tony Sidaway 21:42, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Will Gladly Help

I will gladly help you on any articles, especially regarding Islam or Pakistan. --Ali 01:42, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

hey hey

Assalaamo Aleikum, السلام عليكم In relation to your question on Strivers talk page.. My answer _{(if you asked me, which you didn't - so feel free to ignore me if you want)} would be "The Muslim guild has an ability to deal with things which affect muslims, such as the religion of Islam - which is shared by Muslims, but also things which affect Muslims which have little bearing on the religions - such as the role of Women in Muslim societies, or Hujum, or Paranji, etc, etc." --Irishpunktom\ 14:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Wassalam, why all the same thing the other project cannot do? If you change the moto of other project? --- Faisal 18:49, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:SPAM

Faisal, your reposting of "Articles Requiring Review and Participation" is considered spam. Please remove it. Thanks.Timothy Usher 19:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not think so. If that is spam then why it is not spam on multiple notice boards in wikipedia. For example see this one. Also there is dozen such examples. --- Faisal 19:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration#Raphael1

It seems like I will leave Misplaced Pages soon. It has been my pleasure to work with you. See: Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration#Raphael1 Raphael1 19:36, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Bogus Lapidus reference

Please stop re-introducing the Lapidus p. 599 reference in Dhimmi. Multiple editors now have shown that the particular page reference has no mention of the Ottoman empire. You can verify this yourself on Amazon using the method I outlined in Talk:Dhimmi#Unreliable_Source. - Merzbow 22:26, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Personal attack

Striver is the worst POV pusher I know of on wikipedia. The facts bear this out. You are entitled to your opinion on the matter and it would appear that you have no idea what you are talking about.--MONGO 00:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

help

Well, a comment on my arbitration case would be very welcome. Raphael1 11:21, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Muhammad

I really beg you to tolerate the current formulation. Thank you! Editorius 13:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I start to Hate Misplaced Pages to deletionists specially..

Hi,

Thanks for your support in this voting... somehow it was deleted and I dont understand how it could be with so many Keep votes and so pore arguments for delete?? Do you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Global_Reserve_Bank --Swedenborg 19:41, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Grammar issue

Hi! I admire the way you decline any offer of becoming an administrator, and yet still edit articles, for the purposes of fulfiling your own belief on what is right. I can also tell that many view your user page, by your lengthy discussion page. However, I was sightly puzzled when I read the initial section of your user page.

The following statement "I hate telling lies because Islam teaches me that" at first glance led me to believe that you hated telling lies because Islam advocated lying! Of course, it took me a only split second to realised that you were actually promoting truth.

Might I suggest that you change the above quoted statement to something like "I hate telling lies, because lying is forbidden by Islam" or something as such. It is your User page, so I am only providing a suggestion.

Preceding the sentence on lying, the statement "I do not want to change myself or my user page, so that other users start liking me or I could be an administrator one day" sounded like you WANTED to be an administrator, as a result, you did not want to change your user page. Nothing is wrong with wanting to be an administrator, but a few lines down, you stated that you did not wish to be an administrator.

Might I suggest that you change the above quoted statement to something like "I do not want to change myself or my user page, even if my non-conforming actions do not gain me an administrators position." Again, this is your User page, so I am only stating an example. Please rephrase it in your own words.

I hope this helps you, and I took the time to write this message because I admire the way you live by Islam. Please don't take this as me trying to play a smart alec or mock your language In fact, in terms of language, i cannot come close to crediting myself with learning four languages. If I ever did, I would anticipate that it would be hard to utilize each with precision. ( I would mix up the grammar between all languages if I you ).

• (I can ONLY speak English and Chinese, the latter contains almost no grammatical rules other than a standard syntax.)

Please feel free to leave a message on my user page. Ottokarf 03:08, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

FYI

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Islam:The_Muslim_Guild#Islamonline_IS_a_Reliable_Source

--Aminz 09:10, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

mailbox full

Hi Faisal, I've just emptied my mailbox again, so I'm ready to receive mail again. Raphael1 14:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Userpages

Faisal,

As you're online, I'd lke to call your attention to Misplaced Pages's userpage guidelines.Timothy Usher 11:12, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I am not able to find the specific thing that is wrong with my user page. Can you be more specific? --- Faisal 11:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Using your userpage to attack other editors is unacceptable, for starters. Pecher 11:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Pecher I never mention your name in it. Why you think it is an attack against you (or anyone) ?--- Faisal 11:23, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps Pecher didn't find his username in your userpage, but he did find himself in one of your descriptions. ;). His Excellency... 17:20, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

It is not required to call people by username; attacking other editors on the grounds that you think they use "using[REDACTED] for their propoganda" is still unacceptable. Pecher 11:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

It is my opoinon about wikipedia. I know you will not wait for a second before proceeding to ban me whenever you could. As you have already said me useless for[REDACTED] in your previous posts. This might be a good chance for you to report me on that. So tell me that what is stopping you? --- Faisal 11:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

There's absolutely nothing wrong with your userpage. BhaiSaab 19:52, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree with BhaiSaab but it doesn't hurt to render one's user page more neutral friendly. Also your section entitled, "I do NOT like wikipedia" seems a little false for if it were indeed true you'd probably not spend your time editing on it. You might do better to change the wording on that to specifically say what it is (in summary form) that you do not like about Misplaced Pages. Netscott 20:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Article for deletion

Hi, Ibrahimfaisal. Would you mind offering your input at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Allahdad Bohyo? Thanks! -Medtopic 05:39, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I have no interest and knowledge about this article. I am sorry. --- Faisal 10:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Edward Said

Ibrahimfaisal, please have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Criticism_of_Islam#My_.22new_section_proposal.22_-_Criticism_of_.22critics_of_Islam.22

I think we can use Edward Said quotes in Dhimmi article as well. Can you help me there? --Aminz 07:17, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I cannot visit or contribute in Criticsm of Islam. However, I will try to support you on Dhimmi article. Thank you for good work on Dhimmi article. --- Faisal 09:01, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Category:People killed by or on behalf of Muhammad

Hello Faisal, I have to admit while I do see this category being somewhat demonizing of Muhammad there is a part of me that does see some merit to it. I'm just doubtful that there's enough merit to it to justify its existence. Netscott 09:25, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I have similar thoughts. Muhammad (PBUH) has killed or order to kill very few people. This category should exist if they do not misuse it and each person added is must be reviewed properly. However, I have real doubts that it is possible, because I know those people history (and hate towards Muhammad (PBUH)). --- Faisal 09:31, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Faisal forgive my saying so as I don't want to ruffle your religious sensitivities but I think you'd be taken more seriously if you didn't add pbuh nor SAW honorifics when discussing prophets in Islam. When editing on Misplaced Pages I would recommend that you just say to yourself (in your mind or out loud) such honorifics as you type names that correspond to them to remain respectful but leave them from the actual text. Let's discuss this category more where the discussion has begun. You should add your thoughts there. Netscott 09:40, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Someone never explained me about PUBH issue in such a nice way. Hence I will think to adopt it. --- Faisal 09:44, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Qadiani targeting Muslim articles for deletion

Can you check this Qadiani AeomMai who is targetting Muslim pages for deletion. I am very busy on a project. Siddiqui 19:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello

Hello. I would like to draw your kind attention to your this message: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Anonymous_editor&diff=57687368&oldid=57020078. I am curious to know who are they? Would you please clarify. In the absence of any clarification from you, your words ("they are becoming stronger") may tantamount to blaming a section of wikipedians without specifying any reason, and that is not a something good and violates the principles of wikipedia. --Bhadani 14:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not like to name people, as it will be a personal attack. Anonymous_editor was reverting some changes done by few people in different articles espacially Muhammad article. Hence I hope he can guess. I will specify their names when I will want to file a report against them. --- Faisal 12:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

No problem

People need to get the whole "correlation is not causation" thing down. :) - FrancisTyers · 14:17, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Re; threats

If you feel my comment was a personal attack, feel free to report me on WP:AN/I or start an arbitration case. Pecher 10:24, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

That's not a personal attack, but an observation regarding your approach to editing, which you never attempted to deny. Again, feel free to report if you wish, but don't fill my talk page with threats. Pecher 13:26, 18 June 2006 (UTC)