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The Bugle: Issue XCV, February 2014

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Rabaul in World War II and Australia in World War I

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 23:50, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Historical CoA's

I've seen you upload historical arms on Coat of arms of Croatia, they look decent but the thing is they are still basically the same 3rd grade stylized models from Sutej. I took the liberty and made some on my own using older models from Wappenwiki, tell me what you think: Dalmatia, Istria, Slavonia, Dubrovnik, Croatia (proper). Shokatz (talk) 19:16, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Hah, lol... here I am working on mine and you just finished a sceond batch :). Well, they look nice, but the only thing of mine that's really "Shootey" is the goat from the Istria coa, and there he didn't really make any serious errors (it seems it really is just standing and not moving ). The rest is all new. I'd like to "standardize" the main depiction of the Dalmatian coa, so I'm in favor of using the new heads, though yours are certainly good. Your Dubrovnik shield seems better than mine, but I'm not sure the star on the Illyrian coat of arms is supposed to be gold? -- Director (talk) 19:23, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

You should have requested the guys who made you the Dalmatian CoA to make you all these as well. :p You are right on Istria though, Sutej based his model on the old arms of Istrian March where it shows Goat statant (goat standing in place) as opposed to my arms which show it as goat passant (goat walking), Istria County shows a walking goat as well although boat legs are the ground but it's certainly walking. I've took this as a base for Illyrian CoA. However it's a minor issue, "golden" star can easily be turned to "silver". Shokatz (talk) 19:35, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

I couldn't pester so much, esp when I can do it too. I have requested a vectorized 1495 Croatian coa, though.

Yes, "statant, passant" lets not show off in informal conversation.. :). The Fojnica coa seems to use a white star, don't really know which is more accurate.. as you point out, gold and silver are often interchangeable (e.g. the Serbian cross). A word of general advice: always use subdued, desaturated colours, it generally looks a lot better. Putin figured that out and desaturated the Russian flag, for example. Of course, we are still plagued by that seizure-inducing colour scheme on our flag.. When there's some wind epileptics probably have to look away. -- Director (talk) 19:44, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't think Fojnica should be our reference but rather arms on historical flags of Croatia, more specifically flag used by Jelacic in 1848 see here, you are right though, it seems both the star and crescent should be silver-white. The colors are a bit stronger, more saturated...the thing is I've used these arms to make CoA's for Crusader Kings II awhile ago so I enhanced the colors a bit since it looked a bit dull. ;) Shokatz (talk) 20:09, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

You know, ck2 is one of my favorite games. And I too actually created custom coats of arms for it. Did you notice the entire coastline of Croatia is off by one field? Zadar is where Split should be, split is where Dubrovnik should be, Dubrovnik is where Montenegro should be, etc. -- Director (talk) 20:43, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Funny you should mention that since I was the one who pointed that out on their official forums several times already. I even made a small visual representation with real maps and screens from the game. I used to be quite active there, way back in the days of CK1 and EU3. ;)Shokatz (talk) 20:51, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

I also pointed it out on their forums.. wow. I actually fixed it in my game.. -- Director (talk) 21:59, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

So...what am I to do now with the historical depictions of the arms in the crest? The current arms of Slavonia, "Illyrian" CoA and even the Istria and Dubrovnik are not of very good quality. Should I upload my own or what now? I wanted to upload my own arms having some standardization, but now with you insisting on the Dalmatian CoA I am in a complete deadlock...

These are the arms I wanted to upload: "Illyria", Dubrovnik, Istria, Dalmatia and Slavonia.

Any ideas? Shokatz (talk) 21:35, 27 February 2014 (UTC) Shokatz (talk) 21:35, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Well, in my opinion, the best way to demonstrate the problems with Shootey's crown is to upload versions that follow the same basic design - but correct the mistakes. That's the logic I went with. With that in mind, I wouldn't like to see the current versions of the Illyrian, Istrian, or Slavonian coa replaced.

Your Dalmatian coa isn't bad at all, and may actually be more appropriate since its more similar to Sutej. Your Dubrovnik coa is just of better quality than my own. So, here's what I propose: #1 upload the Dalmatian coa as a separate file on Commons, and #2 overwrite my own Dubrovnik coa. I will then modify them somewhat: I'll darken the mouths of the lions in your Dalmatian coa, and I'll remove the black borders delineating individual stripes in your Dubrovnik coa. -- Director (talk) 23:21, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Second try, sorry missed the point first time since I am really tired now...if you replace the Dalmatian lions then at least we should also replace the marten in the Slavonia CoA as well. I've said several times and I'll say it again...the "marten" or whatever that cartoon(ish) character is in his variant is completely wrong. It's of wrong color and doesn't look like a marten at all. I can overwrite the arms of Slavonia you uploaded and you can then use the marten from my CoA. Shokatz (talk) 23:53, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Nevermind, I understand what you wanted now...I tried it and the quality remained the same. So I decided to go ahead and just upload the Slavonia CoA with a better marten. Everything else is more-less ok. Hopefully thats ok with you? Shokatz (talk) 00:17, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Ahem the Dalmatian CoA you uploaded based on the one I proposed now looks totally out of place when compared to the other historical CoA's on Coat of arms of Croatia. The blue color is of lighter hue and appears as "light blue" when compared to f.e. Istria and Slavonia. I think you should revert back to the original one which you uploaded...duh. :p Shokatz (talk) 14:38, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

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Query

Is there any connection between you and PRODUCER? You both have names in all caps (which is unusual) and edit the same articles and pages. Just curious. Liz 00:35, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Sure. Strangely enough - no connection whatsoever . We're not even in the same country, as I gather. As I always say, if I were so stupid as to create a sockpuppet, I certainly wouldn't call it "PRODUCER" :). Also, my username is not derived from movie-making terminology. -- Director (talk) 00:56, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for politely answering my question, Director. I'm now sorry that I brought it up! Happy editing. Liz 00:02, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

I'd find it suspicious too; I did my share of sock hunting :). -- Director (talk) 09:17, 6 March 2014 (UTC)