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== Dorje Shugden Controvery ==
== Dorje Shugden Controversy ==
An editor ] has just removed this section from the controversies section, but it has existed in the article for a long time and we can see with the recent demonstrations against the Dalai Lama over this issue in the USA that it is controversial and very much live. What do the other editors think about its inclusion? It's a current issue.] (]) 02:27, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
An editor ] has just removed this section from the controversies section, but it has existed in the article for a long time and we can see with the recent demonstrations against the Dalai Lama over this issue in the USA that it is controversial and very much live. What do the other editors think about its inclusion? It's a current issue.] (]) 02:27, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
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{{BLP noticeboard}}] (]) 01:22, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
{{BLP noticeboard}}] (]) 01:22, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
:In my opinion, including this material in this BLP violates ] and coverage of this belongs properly at the relevant articles, ] and ]. Misplaced Pages is not a soapbox. ] ] 06:12, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
:In my opinion, including this material in this BLP violates ] and coverage of this belongs properly at the relevant articles, ] and ]. Misplaced Pages is not a soapbox. ] ] 06:12, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I think there is not really a need for this section. The Controversy is pushed up by three Western front groups that were founded by the ] that misinform the public. Western media mainly had no idea and repeated their allegations. Then those ] editors, like ], and other NKT editors have incorporated the distorted material they gave to the media into the Misplaced Pages articles. Academic research (which is the accepted ] for Misplaced Pages) hold a different stance than ill informed media that have been used by ] and the like. So I would be careful with this topic, either not including it or only including academic third party ]. The removal of the section for the time being is a good idea. Even ] and ] are biased, one-sided and often distorted, there is no need to add more confusion in the bio of a living person. This is my stance on this. ] (]) 16:56, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Revision as of 17:01, 19 March 2014
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When 12 religious groups assembled in Assisi, Italy, in the October 1986, of at the request of Roman Catholic Pope John Paul II. Tenzin Gyatso; recognized as the 14th Dalai Lama of Tibetan buddhism, according to The New York Times, the Dalai Lama, a Buddhist leader, “converted the altar of the Church of San Pietro by placing a small statue of the Buddha atop the tabernacle and setting prayer scrolls and incense burners around it.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by Standforder (talk • contribs) 04:08, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Homosexuality: "Dirty!"
I saw the Dalai Lama being asked on Irish or British television during the 1980s or early 1990s what was his view of either "homosexuals" or "homosexuality" and I was startled by his vivid and memorable reply: "Oh, dirty, dirty, dirty!" He was walking somewhere, as if going to or coming from a meeting, perhaps, and was accosted in a rather guerilla-journalist manner by some non-mainstream media people, as I recall. My memory of the circumstances has almost vanished. I cannot find any reference to this online and wonder if anyone else remembers seeing this broadcast. — O'Dea (talk) 13:23, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose. While there are good reasons to distinguish the person from the office, the current Dalai Lama is universally known in English simply as "the Dalai Lama". The present page title already makes it difficult to find the article on this person without knowing a great deal about him beforehand. 172.9.22.150 (talk) 16:55, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Oppose. I'd suggest withdrawing this one. Did you really mean to argue that he is usually referred to as Tenzin Gyatso? Dekimasuよ!03:29, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Dorje Shugden Controversy
An editor Heicth has just removed this section from the controversies section, but it has existed in the article for a long time and we can see with the recent demonstrations against the Dalai Lama over this issue in the USA that it is controversial and very much live. What do the other editors think about its inclusion? It's a current issue.Truthsayer62 (talk) 02:27, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
The information in that section satisfies all those criteria - neutral, verifiable, a statement of facts. More contributions please. Truthsayer62 (talk) 02:41, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
Apart from needing some slight grammatical improvements, the removed section looked fairly OK to me, and it is notable and worthy of inclusion. I don't see anything to warrant its outright removal. Heicth, if there's anything in there that you believe is not verifiable, is presented in a non-neutral manner or constitutes original research, then by all means improve it. Fuzzypeg★04:56, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
According to that special Misplaced Pages policy on biographies, this material should definitely NOT be included. For example, its says "the views of tiny minorities should not be included at all." — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShenrabandNamdak (talk • contribs) 05:11, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
The views of tiny minority is not really the point. There have been major news stories on this recently. When the Dalai Lama is shown on TV, so are the demonstrators so as far as the media are concerned, it's a major issue. I think that ostracising a major part of the Buddhist community is quite a big deal so it warrants inclusion in the article. Truthsayer62 (talk) 08:40, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
The section on the ostracization of Dorje Shugden followers should stay in the article as their plight has been and still is a major issue. --Christian Lassure (talk) 23:57, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
The section merits inclusion. This is a significant controversy in the Tibetan Buddhist world, not something that only involves the fringe views of a "tiny minority." The significance is reflected by the fact that it has received significant media coverage from various respectable sources, and it has also received serious attention from academics. The deleted section handled the whole thing in a neutral way and was brief.Sylvain1972 (talk) 17:20, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Birtherism has received much more serious academic attention and media coverage, and yet is omitted from the featured Barack Obama article due to WP:BLP. Everyone has heard of Birtherism. No common person, or even most Buddhists, know about Shugden. And Shugdenpas are a spinoff of only 1 out of the 6 schools of Tibetan Buddhism. They are a tiny minority. Robert Thurman states: "The cult of Dolgyal Shugden is that of a minor angel or demon, and never has been mainstream" and "The members of the cult do not come from numerous Tibetan sects". WP:BLP states: "the views of tiny minorities should not be included at all." The deleted section made reference to the Western Shugden Society. Columbia professor Robert Barnett says "the Western Shugden group's allegations are problematic...The Western Shugden Group is severely lacking in credibility". When academic sources on Birtherism appear in a Controversy section in the Barack Obama article, then we can insert this Shugden stuff into this article. Otherwise you are adhering to double standards. Heicth (talk) 19:49, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
I think there is not really a need for this section. The Controversy is pushed up by three Western front groups that were founded by the New Kadampa Tradition that misinform the public. Western media mainly had no idea and repeated their allegations. Then those New Kadampa Tradition editors, like Truthsayer62, and other NKT editors have incorporated the distorted material they gave to the media into the Misplaced Pages articles. Academic research (which is the accepted WP:RS for Misplaced Pages) hold a different stance than ill informed media that have been used by Truthsayer62 and the like. So I would be careful with this topic, either not including it or only including academic third party WP:RS. The removal of the section for the time being is a good idea. Even Dorje Shugden controversy and Dorje Shugden are biased, one-sided and often distorted, there is no need to add more confusion in the bio of a living person. This is my stance on this. Kt66 (talk) 16:56, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
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