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Revision as of 12:54, 27 June 2015 editSammy1339 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users3,929 edits Picture of THE SUN← Previous edit Revision as of 21:42, 28 June 2015 edit undoMartin Hogbin (talk | contribs)20,189 edits Commodity status of animals: new sectionNext edit →
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:No, of course it does not but this article has now become a promotional vehicle for the vegan movement. ] (]) 10:18, 27 June 2015 (UTC) :No, of course it does not but this article has now become a promotional vehicle for the vegan movement. ] (]) 10:18, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, because every time anyone wants to advertize food, what's the go-to thing? Close-ups of astronomical bodies, everyone knows that! ] continues to demonstrate he has an unusually broad idea of "promotional" when it comes to this topic. I just think it's an irrelevant image, and I raised that point before. --] (]) 12:53, 27 June 2015 (UTC) ::Yes, because every time anyone wants to advertize food, what's the go-to thing? Close-ups of astronomical bodies, everyone knows that! ] continues to demonstrate he has an unusually broad idea of "promotional" when it comes to this topic. I just think it's an irrelevant image, and I raised that point before. --] (]) 12:53, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

== Commodity status of animals ==

Referring to the 'commodity status of animals' in the lead treats vegan rhetoric as fact. Animals are bought and sold but they are not treated as pure commodities. In addition to being bought and sold, many animals are treated with care and compassion, unlike genuine commodities. ] (]) 21:42, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

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Former good articleVeganism was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
July 18, 2007Good article nomineeListed
October 14, 2007Good article reassessmentDelisted
January 20, 2013Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Delisted good article
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To view an answer, click the link to the right of the question.

Q1: Why does the article distinguish between dietary and ethical vegans? Aren't ethical vegans the only true vegans? The article makes the distinction because reliable sources make it. See Talk:Veganism/Sources for the dietary veganism distinction for a selection of sources. For example:
  • Brenda Davis, Vesanto Melina (2013):
    "There are degrees of veganism. A pure vegetarian or dietary vegan is someone who consumes a vegan diet but doesn't lead a vegan lifestyle. Pure vegetarians may use animal products, support the use of animals in research, wear leather clothing, or have no objection to the exploitation of animals for entertainment. They are mostly motivated by personal health concerns rather than by ethical objections. Some may adopt a more vegan lifestyle as they are exposed to vegan philosophy."
  • A. Breeze Harper (2011):
    "Practitioners of veganism abstain from animal consumption (dietary and non-dietary). However, the culture of veganism iself is not a monolith and is composed of many different subcultures and philosophies throughout the world, ranging from punk strict vegans for animals rights, to people who are dietary vegans for personal health reasons, to people who practice veganism for religious and spiritual reasons."
  • Associated Press (2011):
    "Ethical vegans have a moral aversion to harming animals for human consumption ... though the term often is used to describe people who follow the diet, not the larger philosophy"
  • Gary Francione (2010):
    "Although veganism may represent a matter of diet or lifestyle for some, ethical veganism is a profound moral and political commitment ..."
  • Robert Garner (2010):
    "I have been a vegetarian all my adult life, and I am currently a dietary vegan, and I do not wear leather."
  • Layli Phillips (2010):
    "While some vegans, for instance members of the Straight Edge community, demand unswerving commitment to vegan ideals and practices, many people practice some form of partial veganism. For instance, many vegans refrain from eating meat, dairy, and eggs, yet eat honey or wear leather. Other vegans shop vegan and eat vegan at home, but look the other way at a vegetarian restaurant for dishes that use a small amount of butter, cream, or cheese. ... You get the idea: for many people, veganism is a principle, not a law."
  • International Vegetarian Union (2000):
    "Dietary Vegan: follows a vegan diet, but doesn't necessarily try and exclude non-food uses of animals."
References
  1. Brenda Davis, Vesanto Melina, Becoming Vegan: Express Edition, Summertown: Book Publishing Company, 2013, 3.
  2. A. Harper Breeze, "Going Beyond the Normative White 'Post-racial' Vegan Epistemology", in Psyche Williams Forson and Carole Counihan (eds.), Taking Food Public: Redefining Foodways in a Changing World, New York: Routledge, 2011, 158.
  3. "Vegan Diets Become More Popular, More Mainstream". CBS News. Associated Press. 5 January 2011. Archived from the original on 1 March 2018. Retrieved 1 March 2018. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
  4. Gary L. Francione, "The Abolition of Animal Exploitation" in Gary L. Francione and Robert Garner, The Animal Rights Debate: Abolition Or Regulation?, Columbia University Press, 2010, 62.
  5. "A Discussion between Francione and Gardner", in Francione and Garner 2010, 257.
  6. Layli Phillips, "Veganism and Ecowomanism", in A. Breeze Harper (ed.), Sistah Vegan: Black Female Vegans Speak on Food, Identity, Health, and Society, Brooklyn: Lantern Books, 2010, 11.
  7. "Definitions", International Vegetarian Union, archived 29 September 2000.

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Possible contradiction

Doesn't saying, "As well as following an associated philosophy that rejects the commodity status of sentient animals." contradict with the 'dietary vegan'? I could be wrong.


External link in image and farming picture

A link to the video of a speech of Gary Francione was present in the caption of his picture. I believe that a video like that can definitely be used within the references of the page, but definitely does not belong to an image caption, which should describe what is the subject matter of the picture.

In the case at hand, a picture of Gary Francione should say that the person in the picture is Gary Francione, and should definitely not be "Gary Francione speaking about veganism, 2009".

I also removed the picture of the pigs, which was later reverted. Fair enough that vegans may claim that farming infringes animals' rights (and I would have rather chosen a picture of chickens in a high density battery). The reason why I removed it is because that picture is illustrating a section titled "Animals killed in crop harvesting". If such a picture is to figure in this page, there should be a relative section/subsection somewhere in the page that deals with vegans' views on animal farming.

In general, I think this page is a bit too biased in favour of veganism, and definitely lacks references on criticism of the practice.

--Japs 88 (talk) 09:46, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Good to see someone here who wants to present an encyclopedic article on the subject rather than a promotional vehicle for vegans. I had not noticed the video link or I would have removed it myself. Such links are clearly against WP policy. Martin Hogbin (talk) 10:22, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Picture of THE SUN

Does the article on veganism really need a giant picture of the sun showcasing a coronal mass ejection? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.117.14.5 (talk) 14:28, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

No, of course it does not but this article has now become a promotional vehicle for the vegan movement. Martin Hogbin (talk) 10:18, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes, because every time anyone wants to advertize food, what's the go-to thing? Close-ups of astronomical bodies, everyone knows that! Martin Hogbin continues to demonstrate he has an unusually broad idea of "promotional" when it comes to this topic. I just think it's an irrelevant image, and I raised that point before. --Sammy1339 (talk) 12:53, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Commodity status of animals

Referring to the 'commodity status of animals' in the lead treats vegan rhetoric as fact. Animals are bought and sold but they are not treated as pure commodities. In addition to being bought and sold, many animals are treated with care and compassion, unlike genuine commodities. Martin Hogbin (talk) 21:42, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

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