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User:Malik Shabazz/Tabs

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Source validity & reverts

Hi Malik, I seem to be having an issue with another editor that continues to revert and delete sourced material in favor of his wording, here, https://en.wikipedia.org/Saint_George Lazyfoxx (talk) 15:05, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Malik, please read the full discussion between Lazyfoxx and myself here, here and here. If you could provide a third opinion here I would very much appreciate it. Cheers, —  Cliftonian (talk)  15:28, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Lazyfoxx and Cliftonian. I'll review the background and get back to you over the next couple of days. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 02:33, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Malik. —  Cliftonian (talk)  02:35, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Please note the deletion of a reliable source three times, here, here, and here., on an article that may be in the scope of the I/P area due to the content being discussed. Lazyfoxx (talk) 18:37, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

I did not delete reliable sources. On each occasion I replaced the two source footnotes Lazyfoxx added with a larger bundle of sources (with the ref name parameter "origins") including both of the sources he had added (Guiley and Maloney). No source information was actually removed on any of these occasions. —  Cliftonian (talk)  18:41, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, but the issue remains of your constant reverting to the wording you see fit, when a reliable source clearly states it the way I had it. Lazyfoxx (talk) 19:59, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

With respect, I do not see what happened the same way. I will wait for outside views. Thank you for your patience Lazyfoxx. —  Cliftonian (talk)  20:34, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Attacking socks

Hi there. I'm thinking of opening an SPI just for the record. This is because two new accounts have recently come up and it may be best to tie them together and to alert userpage patrollers and AfC workers.

All are blocked. This is the group/individual recreating an attack page on a certain individual. Content from the very first draft to the latest has content that shows they are related.

The first 2 in 2012

• David1350 (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Jeanthefact (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

Early 2015

• Ahmadreza1342 (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Remot sam (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Factsheet (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

Recent

• Seymour1945 (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Truthabout2015 (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

I haven't filed the SPI yet because you blocked Jeanthefact as LTA, so I'm wondering who the master is. Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:05, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi Anna. I remember these folks and their archenemy. I'm not sure who the master is, but in April CactusWriter created Category:Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Jeanthefact. Maybe there was some reason CactusWriter thought Jeanthefact was the master. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 04:01, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. I'll wait to see if/how CactusWriter responds here before proceeding. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:08, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi Malik and Anna. I think that I ran across this group while patrolling a G10 speedy tag on the page for User:Factreveal -- and saw an edit summary from the tagger, Tarc, that the page was created by a known "Navid Khiabani-LizCheney" troll. A quick search probably led me to User:Jeanthefact and the comments by Anna on their talk page and the obvious duck nature of this group's edits. So I tagged them and created a sock category for future information. (I set Jeanthefact as the master because it was the oldest account -- but, obviously, the David1350 account that Anna uncovered is older.) Given that more socks have arisen, I think its a good idea to create an SPI file. I found another -- User:Truthabout2014 -- today. — CactusWriter 18:01, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi CactusWriter. Thanks for the comprehensive feedback. Okay, I'll file the SPI. Also, because of the attcking nature of the drafts, and persistence, maybe an edit filter would be a good plan. Maybe User:Samwalton9 could set one up. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:42, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/David1350

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:57, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Anna. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 01:36, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for setting that up, Anna. I went ahead and switched the sock tags to the new puppeteer. — CactusWriter 02:32, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks CactusWriter. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 03:01, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you both! :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:37, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Admin edit war

How is it that your version of DeWayne McKnight is so much better that you are edit warring over it? You should self-revert. The Dissident Aggressor 17:29, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Excuse me? The phrase "Selected discography" is standard (and encyclopedic). "Incomplete discography", your phrase, is just WP:POINTy—as was your attempt to attribute it to me. Pull that shit again and I'll block you. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 04:10, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of Ebony Ayes for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ebony Ayes is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ebony_Ayes_(2nd_nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Per you have the most edits on that article.--Savonneux (talk) 07:00, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Luca Gasparotto

Hi there.

Could you please reload this page (Luca Gasparotto) so I can edit it? He has now signed on loan with my club Morton and has played in the Scottish Championship so is eligible for a Wiki article.

Cheers. Salty1984 (talk) 22:37, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi Salty1984. I'm not an expert in football, but it looks like Luca Gasparotto now satisfies the relevant notability guideline. I've unprotected the page so a new biography of Gasparotto can be written. If you'd like, I can restore the last version of the article that was deleted, but it would be preferable for somebody to write a new article. Let me know if you want the old version restored. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 23:40, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Cheers Malik. I've made the page and fully referenced it. Salty1984 (talk) 09:54, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

@Salty1984: - I've restored the history as well. GiantSnowman 10:41, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello Malik, thanks for your note that said 'we appreciate encyclopedic contributions, but some of your recent contributions, such as your edit to the page Antisemitism, seem to be advertising or for promotional purposes.' It is correct that I try to promote by book by giving exact references to it. If you think it is not appropriate, feel free to delete them. The rationale of my promotion is to inform readers about my central points on relevant pages without having to pay for the books. Nevertheless, again, if this is not welcome, I will not continue feeding on the topics of my expertise. Best wishesSpartakus123 (talk) 11:35, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Blocked for personal attacks

An experienced editor such as yourself knows that personal attacks such as this and this are completely unacceptable.

I have blocked you for 2 days. Please do not act in such an abusive fashion in the future. Chillum 23:32, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Brad can call me a liar, say my editing is disruptive, and call me "sonny boy", but I can't respond? What the fuck is next, calling Black people on Misplaced Pages niggers?

Single-purpose accounts like Brad are a cancer on this project, but you would rather coddle him than deal with the problem.

Fine. (Personal attack refactored). — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 00:17, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Malik, you need to cut it out. Like, right now. This isn't right and you know it. Revoking TPA is next. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 00:25, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Go ahead. What do I need it for?

(Personal attack refactored) — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 00:29, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

I did, at ANI. I guess you chose to disregard it in your roaring rampage of revenge. Well, that rampage stops now. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 00:32, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I can't believe anything I'm reading here. Over the years I've watched Malik absorb some of the most vicious personal attacks I've ever seen with the utmost restraint and professionalism. Call me crazy, but are we sure that his account hasn't been hacked? Just a thought. DoctorJoeE /_{talk to me!} 00:37, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

I was thinking the exact same thing. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} ♑ 00:41, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

For better or for worse, me too. This is extremely out of character. I hope everything is OK with you in RL, Malik. -- Avi (talk) 00:42, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Ditto here. I've always respected you for being one of the more level-headed admins dealing with some of our more contentious material. I also hope that this situation, whether it is account takeover or just apparently extremely stressful outside concerns, like the beginning of school?, resolves itself shortly. You are too valuable to us in your other efforts here to be someone we could easily afford to miss. John Carter (talk) 01:10, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

In additional to the comments on here after you were blocked, this is a blatant misuse of your administrative tool while blocked. As such, I have extended your block to 1 week. -- KTC (talk) 00:43, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Given the passage of time, I've restored talkpage access, as restricting that access should be a last resort and hopefully is no longer necessary (if indeed it ever was). Hopefully enough time has passed that any edits made here will now be appropriate. Given that the matter is now before ArbCom, it is also important that you should be able to post a statement here if you so wish. WJBscribe (talk) 12:39, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Malik Shabazz

A request for arbitration has been filed relating to you. --ceradon (talk • edits) 01:25, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Please email arbcom

Please contact the Arbitration Committee at arbcom-llists.wikimedia.org at your earliest convenance. For the Arbitration Committee, -Guerillero | Parlez Moi 01:32, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Level 1 desysop of Malik Shabazz

Under the Level 1 desysopping procedures the administrator permissions of Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) have been temporarily removed. This is temporary until the entire Committee has had time to review the situation. Discussion is continuing at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case at the present time.

Supporting: Courcelles, Guerillero, GorillaWarfare, Seraphimblade, and LFaraone.

For the Arbitration Committee;

Courcelles (talk) 02:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Calming words

Hello, my friend. I hope you are feeling better. Wow, did you ever let fly. I'm trying to understand what hit such a nerve. Maybe being African-American and being called "sonny boy". I'd absolutely hit the bloody roof if it were me. Maybe something else off-Misplaced Pages that was aggravating you. Whatever it was, and despite that I hate swearing and I have very strong views on civility, especially for admins, I feel your extraordinary tolerance and goodness here for so many years trumps a single, albeit doozy of a flip-out. So, don't worry about the blocks and temporary desysopping. They had to do it (the blocks at least) and they are your friends. I hope and trust that all will be well again, and back to the way it was forever onward. --Anna

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:18, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

I've added the "soft bunny" of happiness and tranquility. It is the most calming bunny picture there is. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:27, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Hmmmm, not a bad bunny, very cute. Malik, some good zingers there (if it indeed was you), Phil Ochs would have soon put them into lyrical form and added a folky tune. Perhaps you can let the stuff here roll off your back for a week (and soak the ground with words, concepts, and liquefied policy discussions), a good part of summer to be away from the computer too. Maybe all Wikipedians should take August off, following the example of Parisians and other artists and mal(ik)contents. I like seeing all the love flowing your way, so that's a very good thing to occur from this. Enjoy the cool (hot) breezes, Randy Kryn 12:58, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

I guess the best way to think about this is an electronic version of a "time out". Thank goodness the yahoo who lit the fuse was blocked as well. As another admin has pointed out elsewhere, the First Rule of Misplaced Pages is very appropriate here: If you wrestle with a pig, both of you will get muddy. And the pig will enjoy it. The Second Rule too: Ignorance is infinite, patience is finite. DoctorJoeE /_{talk to me!} 13:33, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Retired

Thank you to everyone who has had kind words to say, either here or at the ArbCom page, but I learned a valuable lesson yesterday: a troll can call a Black man "sonny boy" on Misplaced Pages with impunity. (Frankly, I'm surprised none of the jackasses at AN/I gave the bastard a barnstar.) I'm sorry it took me eight years, eight months, and four days to learn that. — MShabazz /_Stalk 13:50, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Please, please don´t. We need you. Seriously! Lots of hugs (and kittens!), Huldra (talk) 14:14, 18 August 2015 (UTC) (PS: Btw, for what it is worth: I pretty much agree with what Sean.hoyland said at the WP:ARB-page)

May we convince you to consider a long-term wikibreak instead of a retirement? For better or for worse, Misplaced Pages is as much a social construct as it is an educational construct, and just like life, there have been, are, and will be instances that will cause each and every one of us pain. It's probably worse. For example, I've been called racist and anti-semitic many more times on Misplaced Pages than in real life. Usually, I deal with that by simply recognizing that how someone relates to me is more indicative of them than it is of me (for good or ill) but I can easily appreciate that there are issues that carry with them an extra amount of pain. Take all the time you need to re-equilibrate, but I believe the project would be the poorer for your loss, and would hope you decide to continue, eventually, to volunteer your time and expertise to the project sometime in the future. Good luck and G-d bless! -- Avi (talk) 14:21, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Malik, I also hope you'll reconsider. But I also get it, and would fully understand if you decide to move on. May 5776 be a happy, healthy and prosperous year for you! StevenJ81 (talk) 14:26, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Retire...for at least a week (or August, aye, the month of retirement and/or relaxation). I fully expect to see you back, so enjoy your time away. Let this be a Rehearsals for Retirement and not the real thing for sure. Randy Kryn 14:30, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

I too get it; I would only make the observation that in the past you've shrugged off worse insults and carried on, so please think about returning after a good, relaxing wikivacation. The lesson I learned yesterday is that a petty, one-issue troll can drive off one of our best admins in a single day. That is disquieting -- and not at all a good prognostic sign for WP's long-term health. DoctorJoeE /_{talk to me!} 14:42, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Wow this is messed up. I very much hope you stay. Perfectly understand if you don't. Good luck either way.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:58, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Malik, I recommend you grab some sunshine and clean air for a few weeks, then come back and continue the good work you are so well known for. See you in September! Binksternet (talk) 15:26, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Some insults are more obvious than others, and, unfortunately, as I think too many people around here can support I might be one of the people who had for a long time barely avoided sanctions quite a few times by, basically, casting what are generally wholly unacceptable aspersions in a way which, at least theoretically, aren't necessarily violations of conduct guidelines. So, yeah, I have to agree with you that it is possible around here for some individuals to grossly insult others in a way which might not be such an obvious insult that others recognize it for what it is. In retrospect, Dyer should have been blocked much earlier and you, if that had happened, probably never at all. We know that now, even if belatedly. I have to think that it is unlikely to recur, although, let's be honest, this whole situation was improbable from the word go, so that might not mean much. I know you've done some really wonderful work in a topic area of serious contention, and I hope, in time, that you can maybe come back and resume some work in that field.

Alternately, if you see this but choose not to return to active editing, but would like some particular articles brought up to a better level, drop me a note here or on my talk page indicating what it is, and I can at least try to do something. Also, for what it's worth, I'm fairly sure that there are a number of PD reference sources which can be added to wikisource or found elsewhere which could be used to develop missing articles here. I'm doing a very little, of and on, in that area myself. I'm sure you would be more than welcome over there if you so chose. If, for whatever reason, you choose not to, but can think of one or two PD books that you would really like to see available there, let me know and I'll see what I can do. Best of luck in any event, and thanks for all the years of unfortunately underappreciated service. John Carter (talk) 18:37, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

• comment - Hi Malik, just a heads up that "sonny boy" has/had NO racial intent as originally(in days gone by) meant. I don't know what the circumstances here were(they very well could have been, I don't know, haven't read all the posts, but it actually can be a compliment :)....good luck with your break..--Malerooster (talk) 22:17, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
  • @Malerooster: You might consider redacting this patronizing comment. Just sayin'. DoctorJoeE /_{talk to me!} 00:46, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

@DoctorJoeE:, and you might want to check yourself, and not read into my post what wasn't meant. I tried to clarify above. --Malerooster (talk) 13:32, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

@Malerooster: No offense meant, and I know you meant none as well - but telling someone what he should or should not find offensive, when he clearly was offended, invariably has the potential to make a bad situation worse. As it turned out, it couldn't get any worse — and all is moot now. So, my apologies - let's move on. DoctorJoeE /_{talk to me!} 15:53, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

• Hello Malik, just a note to wish you all the best. Sarah 23:10, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

• Peace ---Sluzzelin talk 23:19, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
• Friendly neighbourhood Zionist T/P stalker is just dropping by to say, you are sorely needed Malik. Regardless of any differing POV, you are that rare thing. A gentlemen who shows remarkable tolerance and insight in the face of idiots and arseholes of all POVs. I have watched your T/P for nearly as long as I have been on the 'pedia, and I admire your dispassionate intellectualism hugely. I would request that you reconsider your decision. Kind regards, Simon, a.k.a Irondome (talk) 23:57, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi Malik, although I am not black or Jewish like you, I think I can understand your frustration. It's reprehensible for a fellow editor to use thinly veiled racial slurs towards you in edit summaries when editing articles. The fact that you reacted is certainly understandable. At the same time, it is understandable when uninvolved admins uphold the letter of the law (on incivility, and the use of tools while blocked), without regard to extenuating circumstances or to the nuances of American racial history. That's what makes Misplaced Pages work -- upholding those standards even in borderline situations. I hope at some point you can step back and see that these admin actions/decisions were not personal. It's also frustrating, when, as an "involved" admin, you cannot take action against trolling types when you are in the midst of editing articles. It's doubly frustrating because you are one of the few admins willing to edit in contentious areas regarding racial, ethnic, and religious strife, and you come across a lot of actionable behavior that you cannot act on because you are "involved". That said, I hope, after possibly some time off, you come back to Misplaced Pages. You are, quite frankly, the most helpful and responsible admin I know. It would be a grave loss to Misplaced Pages if you left. If you left, it would be letting the trolls win. I hope you can see it that way, rather than seeing it as unfair admin decisions made against you and taking that personally rather than objectively. I realize it's hard not to take things personally after enduring years and years of racial and ethnic abuse here on your talk page. That said, I'd like you for that reason to consider that you've endured a lot worse (in that context), and you've survived, with dignity and aplomb, to become one of the most trusted and level-headed admins on Misplaced Pages. Please take all of these things into consideration, and after taking a rest and clearing your mind and heart of wiki drama, please come back. We need you. Thanks for everything, Softlavender (talk) 00:31, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

I will add this: in my opinion "sonny boy" is not racist, it is ageist — the sort of crap that a 60-something wheels out against a 20-something to go ad hominem. "Boy" is racist. I understand you took it differently. I appreciate your sensibilities may be different than mine. But in my opinion the initial epithet may not have been intended the way you perceive it was intended. Don't mistakenly think that Wikipedians don't care about racist (or sexist) baiting, because we do. Carrite (talk) 23:14, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Get up, dust yourself off and get back on the horse. The best fuck you is resilience. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 14:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Gaza Strip (film)

(moved to Talk:Gaza Strip (film)) StevenJ81 (talk) 16:19, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Unblocked

Malik, I've unblocked you. Not because what you did or said yesterday wasn't problematic, but because (as I say in the block log) everyone is allowed to snap once every 8 years, particularly when their buttons are so expertly being pushed. Thank you for those 8 years, and I hope you decide to return. I hope your admin bit is returned too; I'm reasonably confident that you could get it back by simply acknowledging that un-revdeling a comment while blocked was a bad move that you won't repeat, without needing to actually make a false apology. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:27, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Malik, you tread in topic areas I don't know anything about and would be terrified to step in giving the extreme hassle people who try and keep things on track like yourself come across. I'm hoping to convince everyone this was just a one-off and you snapped, and hopefully we'll get you back up to full speed too. Ritchie333 16:55, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

You know, having taken a risk and unblocked you in the hope of de-escalationg things, Floq deserved better than this. I hope you feel like coming back in due course when tempers have calmed, but at the moment you're just harming those who have continued to stand by you through this episode. The only person who decides whether or not Brad Dyer succeeds in driving you off Misplaced Pages is you. Judging by his edits to date, he's not going to be around very long one way or another. WJBscribe (talk) 17:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

• That message was not for Floq, obviously. I don't see the harm in that strongly worded message. It may not be helpful, but at least partly that will be our fault. Drmies (talk) 17:35, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
• I agree with that, Will, except for the part about me "deserving" better. it's not my place to deserve better, I'm not offended or anything, just sad it didn't work. Peace, Malik, hope you change your mind later, but if not good luck. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:38, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
  • @Floquenbeam: FWIW, thank you for doing the right thing X 2 (unblocking Malik and indef-blocking Dyer). This whole tragedy would have been avoided if someone had blocked Dyer when he cast his first racist stone -- but hindsight is an exact science. DoctorJoeE /_{talk to me!} 18:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Come back soon, there is a lot of good here also

Govindaharihari (talk) 18:45, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

8 is not enough

	8 is not enough
	Hope you come back soon, we need editors like you. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:45, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Sometimes this place can be great .... and like today it can at times be an utter bastard!, This place is better off with you than without you so I hope after a few days and beers you'll come back a bit more relaxed/refreshed :) I'll end on this - Don't let the trolls win Malik!. –Davey2010 19:38, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Black Editors Matter

Hello Malik,

Black Lives Matter. Black Administrators Matter.

You have been a positive and productive and level-headed contributor 99.9% of the time over your many years of contributing to this encyclopedia. And what wonderful contributions they have been! We need editors like you. We really need editors like you.

I have sometimes seen a bit of the torrents of abuse heaped on you, and I have also seen your intelligence and grace and calm under fire. A couple of times, I have tried to let you know how sad I was about how you were treated, and I do so again now. My heart goes out to you.

I hope that you will take some time - whether days, weeks or months - to forget about Misplaced Pages. Then, I hope that you will then ponder what went wrong. I hope that you will then consider returning to Misplaced Pages.

If you decide otherwise, I wish you the very best, and thank you for your long years of service to the encyclopedia. Cullen Let's discuss it 00:44, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Hell yeah! What he said. Like. -- Softlavender (talk) 00:47, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

• What Cullen said. I'm glad someone else said "blackadminsmatter" too. But let's remember one thing, all of us posting here wanting Malik to come back--this proves one thing, that we need him more than perhaps he needs us. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drmies (talk • contribs) 06:06, 19 August 2015‎

I'm so deeply saddened...

I can't add anything more to what has already been posted here regarding how much you matter to both Misplaced Pages and innumerable editors. If you choose to retire (and remain retired), I know it will be because you have thought it through with care. If you decide to return, I'll be the first to stop sobbing. I'd like to be reasonable, and be able to say that I would respect your decision either way... but I'm going with being emotive and would prefer to leave it at quoting the only rude words a friend's grandmother apparently knew, being "poop", "bum", "fart", and "drawers". --Iryna Harpy (talk) 01:39, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

For you to consider

I'm not going to beg you to come back, and after what you wrote at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case, maybe you shouldn't even be back. But if you want to retire make it for the right reasons.

Things to consider:

• Aug 17 at 21:55 at Dyer's talk page, Dyer called you "...Sonny boy..."
• Nobody responded to that during the 13 minutes between 21:55 and the time you responded.
• Aug 17 at 22:08 you, an administrator, said "...No, asshole...If you're too fucking stupid to..."
• I didn't click into "sonny boy" for a while. I saw it as a "Hey, sport..." type of infuriating speech.
• People stuck up for you.
• Take a look at your userpage images for a second. You're leaving because "...a troll can call a Black man "sonny boy" on Misplaced Pages with impunity..." ??????!?!?!?!?! When you responded with your tirade, all eyes were on you. So, 13 minutes of impunity because maybe others didn't click in or act fast enough and were focusing on the copyvio issue??? Give me a break!!
• Had you responded with calmly and patiently pointing out the racist nature of the remark, he would have been indeffed and you commended for your strength.
• You leave, Brad Dyer wins. You, taken down by a troll???? Think of outcomes. You leave, this will stick in your craw for the rest of your life, and you know it.
• Take another look at your userpage images. What would they think about your handling of all of this?
• You think you're not around friends who would stand beside you?? Think again. Don't paint this whole project with that brush. You know darn well who Wikipedians are. You are among an incredibly high percentage of defenders and supporters.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:56, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

The above is an honest, wise and courageous post. I do hope that Malik takes the best from it, as befits his extraordinary qualities, so often demonstrated in 8 years of remarkable service to the project. Simon Irondome (talk) 02:30, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Simon. The community is sometimes a little slow to sort things out, but they usually do in the end. In this case, the community was only a handful of editors focusing on the matter and 13 minutes isn't long at Misplaced Pages. If only he'd pointed out the slur and been patient.

Anyhow, I would still like to see him return. If he would only just say he was furious and at least acknowledge that there are some mitigating factors, I think all could be well again. Of course, he'd have to answer to "You can all...." I am part of the "all" and I gave him a bunny! Those don't grow on trees, you know. (Actually, I think they come from burrows where they're grown in vast numbers. I hear it's like a wild bunny porno party down there.) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:44, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Anna, I can't disagree with anything you wrote, and thanks for writing it. I would add, though, once again, that hindsight is invariably 20:20; I always think of exactly the right retort about an hour after I had the opportunity to deliver it. God knows we've all said things in the heat of the moment that we would take back in a New York minute if we could. But I suspect that the "sonny boy" slur struck a unique, hypersensitive, personal nerve that we're not privy to. We've seen Malik brush off ridiculous, racist nonsense with effortless aplomb and grace -- so there is something else involved here, something personal, that triggered a totally uncharacteristic response. All of that said, your points are well taken. I just hope this whole fiasco can be resolved, now or later, without losing Malik. Ignorance and stupidity must not emerge victorious. It ain't right. DoctorJoeE /_{talk to me!} 14:45, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

@DoctorJoeE: L'esprit de l'escalier :) -- Avi (talk) 14:52, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Yep - my Yiddisha momma used to call those "trepverter" (literally "staircase words"). DoctorJoeE /_{talk to me!} 16:40, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

• Then let me tell you what I think happened. Malik was dreadfully attacked, and nobody cared. It is always a point where THINGS STARTED. He didn't started the racist remarks, right? He was hurt. Nobody came to defend him, so he was hurt still more. And, at some point, enraged and hurt and attacked further he decided he got enough of Wiki, and said for himself, I will now say all the things that will burn the bridges behind me, so I never need to come back ever. I don't want to come back. It was a kind of hakiri. He said: I will do all the things that will from this point on will prevent me from coming back. - Well, to bad, and a bad decision, but I was there once myself, so I know what that means. Poor Ed, ... well. But in these moments one forgets that there are people around that cares and appreciate one's work, and all the people who loved and care ... who are out chasing a butterfly or drinking beer, or holding hands with a gorgeous blonde or gorgeous dark haired woman, you know, Misplaced Pages is a weird environment. Not everybody notices things while they are happening, or even has the possibility to check and know about what's up. During that period things can happen, and to fast. And later, when things are said and done, sometimes is too late. And if you have nothing to come back for, you will not, so keep on posting nice messages, folks. And "he who is without sin should cast the first stone". We the rest, of course are heavily perfect, no doubt about it. Hafspajen (talk) 13:27, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

User:Anna Frodesiak: That is not the whole story, though. At 17:47, 17 August 2015‎ Brad Dyer posted this template-message about copy-rights on Maliks talk-page.

Do you think this was actually to inform Malik about copy-right issues? Off course not. It was to belittle him, treating him like a newbie. At least that is how I read it, (and possibly a few of the other 505 page-watchers here.) With 20.20 hind-sight, I regret bitterly that I didn´t revert Brad´s offensive posting. Nobody else did, either, Malik had to undo it himself, at 21.35, 17 August 2015. This just encouraged Brad, so he continued, far worse, at 21:55. And the rest is history.

Anna; you don´t edit in the I/P area, I do. Everyone has to suffer a lot of incredible nasty behaviour, for those of us not “pro-Israeli” enough (read: not supporters of Israeli settlers or Meir Kahane) it is especially bad. And for that sub-set: those of us who identifies as not “white males”, it is even worse. Apparently it galls certain people tremendously that “inferior” people such as us have a say. Damn it, we don´t know our place!

And no, I don´t like Maliks choice of words; they sadden me very much. But I know *exactly* where he is coming from. I understand you, and User:GorillaWarfare when she argues for civility on the arbcom-page. But you two do not wade knee-deep in muck every day. To put it bluntly: Will you be around next time I´m treated with rape? Malik was. I miss him already. Huldra (talk) 21:54, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

New motion to resysop you

I've proposed a new motion to resysop you and to review the Palestine-Israel articles case and possibly modify the existing sanctions. 10:47, 19 August 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doug Weller (talk • contribs)

Something certainly has to be done. I don't know how many red-linked handles keep popping up to revert the work of stable and seriously committed editors, but it is making the I/P area chaotically unmanageable, with rule-observant editors having to cope by the hour by (check the contribs) these kinds of editors:Avner Kushner, LoveFerguson, EscEscEsc who revert on sight if anyone like myself or two or three others alters a text. Malik could see this, but only because he kept an eye out on this (for people who want an undisturbed day on wiki) no-go zone. Nothing constructive, just abusive removalism without any serious talk page discussion. Surely some imaginative fair solution can be devised to lower the philoprogenitiveness of this kind of intrusive gamesmanship?Nishidani (talk) 14:26, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

User:Brad Dyer this puts the whole story into a perspective a few suspected strongly. It's the third time, if the identification is correct, that that sockpuppet has taken out a major contributor to Misplaced Pages. That's what ARBCOM must address. He'll be back, his disenchanted scalps probably not.Nishidani (talk) 20:05, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Argument for staying away (at least for a while)

שלום עליכם:

Look, like many of your other correspondents here, I'd sorely miss you if you don't return. And Anna has a real point in saying that you don't want someone like Dyer to win. Still ... if you come back quickly, I wonder if people will continue to see how broken things really are, especially in areas like Israel/Palestine. And until and unless people see that, I'm not sure things will fundamentally change. (Separate question whether they will see that if you don't come back quickly, of course.)

Feel free to drop me an email if you see this and don't want to reply on-wiki. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:35, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

I was banned for 2 years, and self-suspended for my own errors for some months on successive occasions. The main point is, stay in your own comfort zone, even if that means some grief both to Misplaced Pages, and to those many who have testified with affectionate esteem on your behalf. I've advised more than one very good editor, against my own egotistic interests, to drop Misplaced Pages and the I/P area and take a long break with this one proviso: don't relinquish an established right and reputation outright, if only because one should never let the ignoble claim one's scalp. Retain that right, even if you exercise it sparsely, every blue moon. Nishidani (talk) 13:56, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Please

	Malik, don't go
	Malik Shabazz has been an enormous asset to Misplaced Pages, somebody said, true as it was said. And getting thrown racist things in one's face - that can get the most balanced editor upset. Malik, I was told I was silly, well, I will go on being silly. We love you, Malik, don't go. Hafspajen (talk) 20:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

You have friends

Malik you have done enormous work here and have earned respect and admiration for your efforts. When you're ready give it another chance...Modernist (talk) 20:12, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

This is bullshit

It's not the first time that the powers-that-be in this project have failed to protect its long-standing editors from aggressive off-site agenda-pushers and it certain;y will not be the last. This kind of stuff is why I dropped ut of the I-P area entirely a few years back, there's just nothing that can be done against those who come here to fight their ideological wars rather than contribute to an encyclopedia. I would join the chorus in imploring you to come back, seeing how you're one of the better admins around here, but really, is it worth it? These toothless Arbcom ninnies aren't going to enact any real reform by taking this case now. Fuck em. Hopefully you find something more worthwhile out there. Tarc (talk) 21:32, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

You are missed

I join the chorus of voices saying that your work on Misplaced Pages has been of great value to the community and to the encyclopedia, and that you are missed. I hope that you will choose to return to us at some point, but in any event, I wish you well in whatever you do. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:45, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Hey, Malik

You are a very important person at WP, boldly going where few dare to go. I appreciate that you were pushed to the snapping point by an asshole. Take some time away, refresh, recharge, and come back strong. You, of course, should have been desysopped for using tools through a block, as I'm sure you will agree with after the vitriol dies down and you give it a few moments of sober reflection. I'm equally sure that you will pass RFA by about 120-25 if you decide you want to do that and would be happy and honored to be one of your co-nominators. Just say the word. Thank you for the administrative services you have rendered for the project in general and for me personally and I look forward to seeing you back soon. —Tim Davenport, Corvallis, OR /// Carrite (talk) 23:08, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

I will add this: in my opinion "sonny boy" is not racist, it is ageist — the sort of crap that a 60-something wheels out against a 20-something to go ad hominem. "Boy" is racist. I understand you took it differently. I appreciate your sensibilities may be different than mine. But in my opinion the initial epithet may not have been intended the way you perceive it was intended. Don't mistakenly think that Wikipedians don't care about racist (or sexist) baiting, because we do. Carrite (talk) 23:15, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

If we want to start a tally of willing nominators and/or voters, I wonder how the votes would go. I remember US House of Representatives bills often get 50 or more proposers, and I tend to think the same might happen here. Anyway, that's at least 2 more than happy to stand co-nominators/voters by my count. John Carter (talk) 23:49, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Carrite, in my mind it is not supportive or helpful for white people to tell black people what is or is not an ethnic slur. I cannot sit by and let people invalidate (even while trying to mitigate or defuse the situation, or to offer an alternative viewpoint) the experience and truth of a minority group, especially during a time period when those experiences and those lives have been under such duress in American society. (I also don't personally agree that Malik should have been unequivocally de-sysopped or that he should need to stand for RfA .) Cheers, Softlavender (talk) 03:02, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Malik himself, in his last edit, stated that he feels his own recall criteria would require him to run for an RfA. -- Avi (talk) 04:39, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

No, he merely said he resigned the bit. And ArbCom agrees that he would not need to run for RfA. Softlavender (talk) 05:02, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, this is academic, anyway. But: (1) Softlavender, he probably wouldn't technically need to RfA again, by the rules. (2) I agree with Avi that if Malik ever comes back, he will insist on an RfA anyway. (3) In that case, if he were to fail to get re-approved, I'm outahere forever, because then this project will have surrendered to the trolls and the bureaucrats. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:22, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Notice how colleagues of differing POV's are in solidarity?

I find this to be one of the few positives to have come out of this dreadful event. If you are reading this Malik, I hope this cheers your wounded heart. All of us that believe in the project are here, regardless of POV. Kind regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 00:05, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

It is a testament to how Malik was able to edit constructively in collaboration with people whom he disagreed, how he understood that having a POV does not preclude one from editing and article to be NPOV, and how he was perceived by his peers. -- Avi (talk) 01:19, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

And it shows that we treat all editors equal, but their contributions really aren't: some do give much more value to the encyclopedia than others. It is getting sorted out Malik, I'm hopeful you will decide to come back. We need you more than you need us, this is true, but your hard work is appreciated by more people than you realize. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 15:12, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I very much appreciate Irondome pointing out this apparent "silver lining". Many wikipedians who differ widely on the merits of various issues seem to, in unity, express appreciation for Malik's work ethic, patience and uncommon good sense. What has happened to this and other editors working in high sock areas like I/P and recently Gamergate demonstrates a real challenge to our effort to build the best online encyclopedia. This set of incidents points out that we together, in such a moment of unity, discuss ways to prevent single purpose accounts from chasing the best of us away from high drama content areas. As has been pointed out, Malik is one of us who has not avoid such difficult areas. We all need dedicated sysops like Malik in order to inspire the next generation of administrators. Regardless of the outcome, Misplaced Pages is better with Malik than without. BusterD (talk) 15:28, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

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Haymarket Memorial

Hi Malik,

I noticed that you removed the postcard image of the haymarket monument because the section was too image-heavy. I disagree, but I think a good compromise would be to create a new article for the 'Haymarket monument' or 'Monuments to the Haymarket affair' or something like that because the monument itself has a crazy history. I'm saying this because I just took a trip to the police station in Bronzeville and received permission to photograph the current policeman monument (I'll upload that series probably this weekend). What do you think? Victor Grigas (talk) 16:25, 20 August 2015 (UTC)