Revision as of 09:03, 9 August 2006

• WP:AN
• WP:ANB

• For urgent incidents and chronic, intractable behavioral problems, use Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.
• To request review of an administrator's action or other use of advanced permissions, use Misplaced Pages:Administrative action review
• If you are new, try the Teahouse instead.
• Do not report breaches of personal information on this highly visible page – instead, follow the instructions on Misplaced Pages:Requests for oversight.
• For administrative backlogs add {{Admin backlog}} to the backlogged page; post here only if urgent.
• Do not post requests for page protection, deletion requests, or block requests here.
• Just want an admin? Contact a recently active admin directly.
• If you want to challenge the closure of a request for comment, use {{RfC closure review}}

When you start a discussion about an editor, you must leave a notice on their talk page. Pinging is not enough.

You may use {{subst:AN-notice}} ~~~~ to do so.

Sections inactive for over seven days are archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.(archives, search)

Tasks

The following backlogs require the attention of one or more editors.
NPOV disputes, Images on Commons and Overpopulated categories

CAT:NS

CAT:NS among other other image cats are backlogged by five days. Should be directly link these cats from the speedy deletion page to speed things up? It seems lthat a great number of admins are not aware/intimidated by image deletions. Perhaps this is because Orphanbot does the tagging, so people don't touch them until they have to be deleted.Blnguyen | rant-line 02:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

General

Ahrarara = Panairjdde

User:Panairjdde has returned now in the form of User:Ahrarara. He or she is stalking every single article from my contribs list right now and deleting AD anywhere and everywhere. Please stop or warn him or her. Thanks. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 22:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

He was blocked again, thanks, but note that he is currently wreaking havoc yet again with an edit warring anon, User:151.44.81.169, on the very same articles stalked from my July contribs, multiple 3RRs here ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 01:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Loath I am to do it, I have blocked the entire 151.44. range for an hour -- which affects not only the editor formerly known as Panairjdde (TEFKAP) but some 65,000-odd other people. However, he has been stalking or edit-warring not only with Codex Sinaiticus, but at leat 2 other editors. I'm gambling on the fact that the users of an Italian ISP aren't interested in editting an English Misplaced Pages, & as long as no one complains, we can repeat this until TEFKAP gives up. (He has also used the 151.47. range -- but let's wait until we see what kind of trouble I've caused before blocking that one also.) I won't protest if another Admin reverts the block. -- llywrch 23:23, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Very funny

ok, you've had your laughs--AOL account 14:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

• Ok, it's not a joke, it just seems like one, my mistake--AOL account 14:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
  • That's ok, we all make them. --Sam Blanning 15:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Jim Shapiro

All debate now consolidated at WP:DRV, these discussion sin the linked document at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2006 July 31/Shapiro

Male Domination?

During my time on English Misplaced Pages, I’ve come to realize just how male dominated it is (I myself am male). Seriously, how many Wikipedians are female? If these legendary creatures do exist, they would be classified as “rare and endangered”. But perhaps they are more common than I think, as it is difficult to tell and we tend to assume the user is male. But I digress; Female Wikipedians are few and far between. Unfortunately - we need Female Wikipedians, to continue effectively as an encyclopedia, as they can offer insights that males cannot. Male/female insights and interest differ radically. Compare:

• F-35 to Madonna (entertainer)
• System of a Down to Destiny’s Child
• Soccer to Netball
• Prada to Half Life 2

The truth lies within the Article quality. How can we overcome this?

If I am wrong, and every second editor is female – correct me. I also apologize for stereotyping and generalizing. I am also unsure of how Misplaced Pages’s Homosexual community rates in this.

User:Dfrg.msc File:DFRG. MSC.jpg 07:12, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Seriously, how many Wikipedians are female? The recent New Yorker article claims 20% -- not parity, but it could be worse. Consideration of these sorts of issues, by the way, are not new, hence Misplaced Pages:Countering systemic bias, not to mention a variety of other Wikiprojects that have sprung up to attempt to fix gaps. Check those out. --Calton | Talk 08:35, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Well,[REDACTED] tends to attract really non-typical populations. Lots of technogeeks as some people would say. And many of them are male. Although this is important to consider, I'm not sure if this is the place to do it. Maybe write an essay in your user space on the issue. The Ungovernable Force 08:53, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe I'm the only one, but "Who cares?" If women aren't as geeky as men that's not our problem to solve or be concerned with. --mboverload@ 09:00, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I suspect this is dfrg.msc attention-seeking again. Just zis Guy you know? 13:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

We have several female admins, and several female editors who are not admins. I do, however, agree that several more female editors would be a good thing. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:32, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Several... we have more than 1000 admins, and a LOAD of editors. "Several" isn't a lot. -- Миборовский 01:26, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Gender isn't specified and is not necessarily revealed so there is no way of telling the relative proportions, nor can one rely on names. Don't forget the small number of "non gendered". Tyrenius 01:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The post was actually put up on the Village Pump 19 minutes before the one here, but without the admin bit. This is not necessary here and would be better on RfA talk. PS I haven't checked, but I expect it's there already as well. :)Tyrenius 01:51, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• There are quite possibly lots of wikipedians who don't go around advertising whehter or not we are female and we frequently get mistaken (wrongly in my case) for being male. I also don't tell everybody what television show I watch or which way I vote, or even how old I am. I expect to be judged on my edits and the content I add should be able to measure up against wikipedia's policies - nothing more or less. There is probably a dispropritionate number of Australians compared with say people from Kazakhstan - the nature of an English language resource using technology. Since people can and do mislead others on the internet, I would say we have no way of finding out what the proportions are. Not sure it would be useful anyway - there are all sorts of biasses - income level, against those who are too time-poor to contribute or don't have access to the technology as well of course based on language and country.--A Y Arktos\ 02:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the thrust of what you are saying, but I think the examples could be better - the F-35 is to my mind clearly more important than Madonna, (if you buy market economics for example, the way the cost overruns and albums sales are going, a single F-35 will soon be worth more than she is :-). While I play netball and I am certain that soccer IS NOT football, RUGBY is, even I can see given the relative size of the two sports, soccer deserves the bigger article, (marginally, and it should be rewritten to explain it is a form of Irish dance cum competitve amatuer dramatics death scene acting, in which no one ever scores :-). Winstonwolfe 03:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

So, to illustrate your point that there are small numbers of female editors here, you compared the quality of articles on stereotypically male and stereotypically female interests? I imagine you'd find that there are more women here than you think, but their distribution of interests is not so identifiably "female". (This also is a bit of an odd place for this discussion, but oh well.) Opabinia regalis 16:46, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

WP:AIV...jr.

(I can't edit the real thing due to an Airport Vandal Autoblock)

Miniclip - minor legal threat

An anon is displeased that the Miniclip article mentions hostile code reported by two security firms in Miniclip's downloadable games. There's been a minor legal threat at Talk:Miniclip:

Nagle, if you now re-post this inaccurate article of yours, you would now knowingly and willingly, with reckless disregard, publish inaccurate material, making you (and any associates) automatically liable and obviously severely degrade your reputation as a publisher on Misplaced Pages. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.7.31.54 (talk · contribs).

There are sources for the reports, and they've been in the article for months, but the anon remains unhappy. He occasionally removes the reports, and I or someone else puts them back.

This probably doesn't require action, but because there was a legal threat, I'm putting a note here. --John Nagle 19:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Article watched --mboverload@ 20:14, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

If it's a legal threat, then the user should be blocked until the threat is withdrawn. (User is currently blocked for 3RR.) However, at the moment, strictly speaking, it reads as a caution, not a threat, as there is no statement of intent to act, even though that might reasonably be taken as the implication, especially regarding the legalese. Tyrenius 01:41, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

It sounds like pseudo-legal language used by someone who doesn't know much about the law. Winstonwolfe 00:04, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

admin aid needed

user- 88.155.198.100 has removed several information sections apparently out of personal reasons he has ignored requests for talkpage usage and broken the 3RR rule. the majority of his removals have been under the casualty section of the Battle of Bint Jbeil. where he removes the more recent casualty counts provided by msn cnn ny times (as recent as aug-2) and replaced them with much older information from websites, and insists that the newer cnn sources are "BULLSHIT" with out giving details. as a inexperienced editor I need some sort of admin help with this. his frequent removals have brought aditions to the page down to a halt.--68.211.220.109 00:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

88.155.198.100 was found to be in the wrong, but had not been properly warned by the other anon. As 88.155.198.100 had stopped editing, at least for the moment, I simply issued a stern warning rather than any punitive action. RyanGerbil10(The people rejoice!) 01:16, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

it's me the same guy as before and I would like to say that, the edit waring does not stop. the major news outlet suported stats are either removed or listed as being only values claimed by hezbola. it also seems the 3rr rule may have been broken--68.215.134.176 04:21, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any additional editing by said anon, so I'm not clear what the specific further complaint is. If any single edit has reverted more than three times (including via sockpuppets if you have reason to suspect that), please file at WP:AN/3RR. Given that this is such a topical issue, protection doesn't seem like a good option, and presumably you'd not be too happy were it semi-protected... Alai 04:52, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I personaly bellive that User talk:Flayer is a sockpupet of 88. if semiprotecting is all you can do go ahead (even if it locks me out.) so long as you do something about the sock pupets. (I'll get a named user acount as soon as this is over.)

That seems a far from an obvious conclusion to make, and even if true, doesn't appear to be a clear-cut 3RR. I suggest resorting to the article talk-page to convince other editors your presentation is the superior one. Alai 06:22, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

The articles flayer removed were from sources that included MSNBC, CNN& the Guardian, so their removal was cerntanly unjustified. aditionaly it seeems flayer has gone about removing information he dislikes(but is sourced.) in other pages.--208.61.16.41 16:59, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I’ve seen what’s happened in that page my self Flayer appears to never use the talk page, or answer to requests for dialogue, so talk won’t work. He also goes about removing information without leaving a suitable message. (often nothing or, done under the guise of NPOV.) and replaces the information with dubious claims, or removes it totally. A quick check to his talk-page User talk:Flayer, (and contrib. page.) shows that he hasn’t just defaced Lebanon related articles but also articles as unrelated as house keeping. I strongly advocate that an administrator take action. (.BTW a look at the time data on the articles in question does seem to reinforce the view held by 68.215.134.176 that he operates a sock puppet under an IP address around 88.155.198.100.)--Freepsbane 19:25, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppets aside he has broken the 3rr rule (after I've already warned him.)

• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Battle_of_Bint_Jbeil&diff=67874340&oldid=67873902
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Battle_of_Bint_Jbeil&diff=67873354&oldid=67865913
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Battle_of_Bint_Jbeil&diff=67856479&oldid=67848902
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Battle_of_Bint_Jbeil&diff=67795601&oldid=67768537
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Battle_of_Bint_Jbeil&diff=67875743&oldid=67874622
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Battle_of_Bint_Jbeil&diff=67875743&oldid=67874622

for mor info see :http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Battle_of_Bint_Jbeil&action=history --Freepsbane 20:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Take that to WP:AN/3RR. alphaChimp 20:15, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

can you do it for me.--Freepsbane 20:16, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Stamps wrongly claimed as Fair use: serious copyright problem

This is not a small, but quite serious problem regarding fair use guidelines. I noticed that Category:Fair_use_stamp_images has close to 500+ images of stamps, all tagged with {{Stamp}}, and are supposed to be under Fair use. However, the fair use criteria as defined in WP:FAIR#Images clearly states that this usage is only allowable "for identification". Furthermore, the guidelines in Category:Fair use stamp images state that "stamp images in this category should not be used solely as a cheap way to illustrate articles. In addition to the problem that images are often altered for artistic reasons and thus may not be factually accurate representations of their subject, Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria does not allow for it."

However, *most* of the images under the category are being used for identifying the *subject* rather than the stamp itself. This is, as described above, not allowable under the fair use criteria.

I did check some of the images, and found that almost all of them (save a few used in philatellic articles) are being used in biography pages, or pages related to the building or the thing shown in the stamp. This is not fair use, and it should be dealt accordingly.

Since IANAL, could others with knowledge of the US fair use law clarify whether the usage of stamps in this case is ok or not? If the usage of stamps in biography or other such pages is not fair use, then the stamp images should be removed from those articles. If it IS fair use, then the criteria should specify this.

Since copyright is a big issue, and according to the recent zero-tolerance policies about non-licensed or non-sourced images, we should take care of this immediately. A related problem is the {{Currency}} tagged images. I found today that Grimm brothers contains the image of Image:1000-DEM-OBV-178x83.jpg i.e. the 1000 Deutsche mark, claiming fair use. I don't think the claim is valid. --Ragib 01:29, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Re. stamps, it's not fair use to illustrate the subject of the biography, unless the biography specifically deals with the fact that the subject has been honoured with a stamp. Ditto currency. (Unless in both cases there is anything like US Federal PD in operation.) Tyrenius 01:34, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

So, you mean, adding a sentence to the biography page saying that "A commemorative stamp on <insert personname> have been issued by <insert country name>" would make it fair use? --Ragib 01:43, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

A bit more context as to why that stamp issue was intersting would also help the fair use argument.--Peta 01:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I was hoping I would see a bunch of incorrectly-tagged pre-1978 US postage stamps and pre-1956 Canadian stamps in that cat, but most of these stamps seeem to be very recently issued. There seem to be a remarkable number of Indian and Irish stamps. It does look like a big cleanup job. Jkelly 01:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I tried to remove the non-fair use of these stamp images, but after cleaning up 10 or so, I have to give up. It sure is a huge cleanup job, as most of the 500 or so images are improperly used as fair use images in biography pages. A little help would be great. --Ragib 20:40, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure orphaning 500+ images by hand is something that one or two admins can expect to get done in a reasonable amount of time. I'm going to ask User:Carnildo if OrphanBot can do this, and then we can hand-revert the cases that comply with policy. Jkelly 21:34, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Can do. I'll get to it in a few hours. Should OrphanBot tag the images as "orphaned fair-use" while it's at it? --Carnildo 22:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Better that than doing it by hand. We can remove the template when we reinsert the compliant ones. Jkelly 22:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The bot's running now. If the category really is around 500 images, it should be done in about two and a half hours. --Carnildo 01:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll check the mainspace contribs and make sure that any actual postage articles have their images replaced. Jkelly 01:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

How do we request a person to review the fair use claim on one of these stamps? Gimmetrow 02:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Request for clarification: What if I wanted to mention that the Greek state wanted to honour Panagiotis Kanellopoulos by issuing a stamp and wanted to show the Image:Kanellopoulos.jpg of the stamp in the Panagiotis Kanellopoulos article? Thanks. Dr.K. 04:41, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Link to a the website of the copyholder if it is just to help readers see what the stamp looks like. If you're discussing the use of subtle shading in philately and how it was radically altered for this memorable stamp, claim Misplaced Pages:Fair use and show that change. Jkelly 04:45, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your fast reply. Dr.K. 05:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Bot's done running now. It had the usual problem with special requests, where it didn't realize it was finished, and kept going over the category again and again. --Carnildo 06:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

This OrphanBot is a real PITA for editors like me who are using stamp images correctly as fair use in article about postage stamps. So do I have to go back and reinstate each one AND remove the orphan tag or is User:Jkelly really going to do this for me? The only listed possible tag for use one these fair use stamps is {{Stamp}} and I already had tagged the appropriate images with this tag as per policy. ww2censor 05:07, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for the inconvenience. I've replaced all the images in articles about stamps and stripped the orphaned template from them. Jkelly 17:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

About how much of the category was valid? --Carnildo 19:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I touched fourteen image description pages to remove orphan tags. Some stamp articles were using the same image because it was a particularly important one, so that is less than the number of clickthroughs. Another dozen or so had already been done before I began. I did not replace unfree stamps in "List of people appearing on stamps" articles, so the total number of articles I edited was nine. Again, there were also articles that had already had their stamps replaced before I began. Jkelly 19:16, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Whoa Nelly that was bold. But my ongoing process of reviewing fair-use stamp images individually was going slowly, so can't complain... :-) Stan 13:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Allende stamps

I don't know the answer to that, but I think Allende stamps makes an interesting test case for where the border of fair use might lie on this issue; it's probably right on the border for fair use, in that contrasting Cuban and Chilean stamps were being used to illustrate different commemorations on the 10th anniversary of the 1973 Chilean coup. I'd be interested to hear whether people think that was fair use or not. The (somewhat stubby) article makes no sense without the illustrations, but perhaps that is an argument against having the article. - Jmabel | Talk 03:58, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

That article is just a list of unfree images with a little prose, but there's no reason why it couldn't be a real article. It is a curious case. Probably best to merge any WP:V information until such a time an article can be written that does some real analysis. Jkelly 04:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Another case: Image:GLKStamps.jpg. These stamps were issued by a micronation. Fair use rationale was given in the image description (why doesn't OrphanBot parse for that?), and the article text mentions the assertion of the micronation that the stamps have philatelic value. Is this fair use? Also, some editors want to remove the claim of philatelic value as advertising, leaving only the statement that stamps were printed. I think that leaves fair use of the image on shaky grounds, and would like an outside opinion. (Original uploader thinks these stamp images are public domain, but I have been unable to verify that and am doubtful.) Gimmetrow 12:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

OrphanBot doesn't check for a fair-use rationale because it can't tell the difference between a valid rationale and a bunch of words that somebody once heard used in the context of copyright law. --Carnildo 19:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

It could however check the description for a validly formatted rationale with a section header containing an article name, and not remove it from that article. WP:AGF. Gimmetrow 19:14, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Assuming good faith doesn't work here. I believe that almost every rationale put on an image description page was put there in good faith. But it doesn't change the fact that upwards of 95% of all fair-use rationales don't cover the points they need to cover, and of those that do, many aren't correct. --Carnildo 20:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Please help, as in particular cases the stamps are needed anyway, and the articles have been modified where applicable. On seven national Scouting articles-five in Africa which the Scouting WikiProject had to save from afd earlier this year, plus Lithuania and Turkmenistan, the stamps don't illustrate the subject, they prove the existence of the subject, and so are an integral and structural part of the article. They provide a visual record where no other exists at present. There has to be some way fair use and article content can both be satisfied. Chris 01:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

A curiosity

I have been looking through Category:Living Traditionalist Catholic Bishops. Almost all of them are one-liners, bereft of any substantive encyclopaedic information. This looks like a directory dump to me, supporting the vocal but largely insignificant dissenting traditionalist Catholic minority. What do others think? Just zis Guy you know? 11:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The first 2 or 3 that I went to were actually several paragraphs long. It's likely that the other stub information was just obtained from an external source, but it's probably not a commercial content provider. alphaChimp 11:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Most were created by the same user, but I doubt there is any copyvio involved. On the other hand, I think most of the one-liners (and a few of the longer ones) are not really notable. I brought this up on WP:BIO a while back without a resolution. Gimmetrow 13:55, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

User:Intangible and recategorization of hundreds of pages

User:Intangible is in the process of recategorizing hundreds of pages, despite the fact that Intangible is in arbitration over this very issue. I have asked for a temporary injunction, See:request for injunction. I raise this here because so many pages are being edited, and I felt someone should at least glance at what is going on and decide if it is OK or not. I am obviously biased, and think the recategorization is POV, idiosyncratic, and ultimately destuctive of the work of scores of editors.--Cberlet 12:38, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll admit, I don't always agree with User:Intangible, but I've read your request for injunction, and I have to say, that could apply to myself as well. What is the specific problem? Category:Politics? Unless I'm completely missing something, it looks like Intangible cleaned the mess up. --Kbdank71 20:16, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

If you believe Intangible has acted improperly while an arbitration case is pending you should take this to Arbcom, by adding evidence to the case or making a motion that he be required to stop until the case is resolved. Thatcher131 (talk) 13:06, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I did, there is no response.--Cberlet 23:09, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Massive upload of possibly unfree image

User:Benzmit has uploaded over 100 images in the last couple of days, all with nonsense edit summaries ("cfgcjfld ew sfdsggvv", "qwqewdfdsaDADSA", etc.) and claiming to be the creator, when they look like copyrighted images... Those I checked were all orphans. Maybe some admin could somehow take care of this; I currently don't have the energy to put them all up at WP:PUI. --Fritz Saalfeld (Talk) 18:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I have listed those which have not already been tagged at WP:PUI (see Misplaced Pages:Possibly_unfree_images#August_4)and added {{PUIdisputed}} to all. I left a note on the user's page, although he had been previously warned about uploading images with incorrect tags. Several are prima facia not free, including a few trading cards. Most were highly suspect. Some non-image edits were probable vandalism. --TeaDrinker 03:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much. --Fritz Saalfeld (Talk) 09:30, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Template:User System Administrator

What's up with Template:User System Administrator? I deleted it from a non-admin's User page and he put it back, claiming he's a system administrator on another system, and therefore he has a right to use that template. I contend that only Misplaced Pages admins should use that template (although I don't think anybody should use all of this userbox nonsense, really), unless the template is changed to make it clear they are not talking about being a Misplaced Pages sysadmin. User:Zoe|(talk) 23:35, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the template should be changed, but I think it's rather clear the template is not referring to sysadmins on Misplaced Pages. For one, there is a rather large difference between a system administrator and sysop (sysadmins being Brion VIBBER, Tim Starling, etc.; sysops being you and I). There aren't nearly 500 sysadmins on Misplaced Pages, yet nearly that many use the userbox. It's also sorted under Category:Profession user templates, which would again imply that it's not talking about Misplaced Pages sysadmins. In either case, be it acceptable or not to use the template, I believe that User:Torinir was acting in good faith and should be unblocked. AmiDaniel (talk) 23:42, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Like many other templates, this one does not help the project and it might cause problems. If someone wants to say on their user page that they have certain kinds of past experience with computerers, they can do that without using a template, --JWSchmidt 23:44, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I have unblocked Torinir, as the block was based on an apparent mistaken assumption. I find the template harmless but irrelevant, personally. Friday (talk) 00:03, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

The block was not blocked on a mistaken assumption. It was based on his restoring the template after I deleted it from his User page because he is not a sysadmin on Misplaced Pages. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:39, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

That is not what the userbox implies. You're misreading it. It's describing the profession of being a system administrator, not the position of being a Misplaced Pages system administrator. Georgewilliamherbert 02:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

And how is one supposed to understand that distinction, unless they knew the history of the userbox and its supposed intended purpose? User:Zoe|(talk) 02:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Note that it's in the category of Profession-related userboxes, that it's used very widely by WP users who are not WP admins of any sort?

I think you're the first person who interpreted it as implying WP sysadmin status (I could be wrong but have seen no other cases). I don't think anyone thought that it had to be more clear.

This was a rather violently enthusiastic response to it... Georgewilliamherbert 03:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Unless the passerby just happened to click on the userbox to go to the template page, and understood the category that it was placed in, they would have absolutely no idea that that userbox was even in a category, let alone a category that makes any sense. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

The argument that a random passerby might make that mistake holds water. That argues for changing the userbox to be unambiguous.

That does not explain why you (who are not a random passerby) didn't check what categories it was in and see how it was being used, in response to the claims made that it didn't mean what you thought and were asserting that it meant. Due dilligence? Georgewilliamherbert 04:03, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, I think the template needs clarity, I think Friday should have discussed the unblock with Zoe first, and I think Zoe should elaborate on this. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 02:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Admins are expected to be a check on each other. Friday (talk) 03:00, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

From Misplaced Pages:Wheel war: Wheel wars occur when administrators get too distressed to discuss something, or when an administrator takes it upon him or herself to undo another admin's actions without consultation. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:02, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Let's see... hmm.. looks like we're talking about it here. Friday's the one who reversed your block and I see Friday's comment right above. So, what are you talking about? Ashibaka tock 03:03, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm taling about being presented with a fait accompli and being told to lump it. Why is Friday so God-awful hurried to undo other people's actions? Avoidance of wheel wars is begun by talking about things before taking unilateral actions. This is not the first time that Friday has reverted one of my administrative actions, and not even the first time this week. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

If you think she's Wiki-stalking you, that's a case to make in general, but it doesn't make this specific incident qualify as wheel warring on her part. Ashibaka tock 03:08, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

It's uncivil and a violation of WP:AGF. And a pattern of abuse on Friday's part. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

If Toronir were to push the issue, s/he has a valid case that you repeatedly vandalized his/her page for a reason which other editors and admins are without exception finding to have been an exceptionally aggressive misinterpretation. I grant you good faith, but claiming that pushing back against you on this particular issue was abusive is silly. The block and reverts on T's page were crying out for another admin to overturn. Georgewilliamherbert 03:19, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Without discussion first? Undoing another admins action without reaching consensus first is the root of most admin conflicts that turn into wheel wars. FloNight 03:27, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I am not an admin, however, I would have encouraged all of:

* Zoe to have warned the user about their interpretation of the userbox before editing their userpage

* Zoe to have warned the user prior to blocking

* Friday to have asked Zoe for clarification

* Friday to have notified Zoe before the unblock

However, those were all moot points by the time the wheel war threat hit AN/I.

In an ideal world, admins neither respond to each other without prior discussion nor use admin powers on users without prior discussion and warning. Georgewilliamherbert 03:42, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I did warn Torinir that if he put the template back, he would be blocked. He went ahead and did it anyway. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I sit corrected. You did indeed, on Aug 2. However, there's the rather interesting question raised by that exchange, wherein Torinir said "Hey, the userbox isn't used for that". And, was correct. What research did you do to convince yourself that T was wrong on that point, before applying the block? Georgewilliamherbert 04:03, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I have to disagree with you here. If even a single reversal of an admin action is wrong, you're saying that whoever happens to act first is by definition right- and that's insane. Friday (talk) 03:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Friday, it is unlikely that you can fully understand the situation without speaking with the original admin first. You are only getting one side of the story. That is why discussion is needed. If you disagree with another admins actions, it is best to discuss it on AN/I or AN. Other admins may agree with you and then you will have consensus to reverse. This is a good preventative measure to stop wheel wars. --FloNight 03:42, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

however it slows down how long it takes for mistakes to be corrected and flys in the face of the "wiki way".Geni 10:25, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

This looks to me like the bold/revert/discuss model. A user was blocked, and the rationale indicated a misunderstanding. I'd not have done it myself but it is very hard to criticise Friday for unblocking a user whose block appears to have been the result of a genuine error. If, after discussion, we find that the user is playing silly buggers then we can easily re-block. I think everyone needs a nice cup of tea and a sit down, myself. Just zis Guy you know? 15:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

A check, certainly, I fully agree. This did not seem to me to be a clear-cut case of an erroneous block; true, it seemed punitive and, true, there seems to be a presumption of guilt by Zoe, but the block was not clear-cut wrong, IMHO. In such cases, these things need to be fully discussed, rather than saying, "Zoe, don't hate me because I know we just talked about this, but I've unblocked" and taking on the appearance of taking over. We should be bold, but we should be sure. :) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 03:09, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

The user that is insisting that they were not trying to make anyone think that they were an admin is the one that made this edit, right? It is not obvious to me from Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for comment/Hipocrite that there is no reason for concern about this user. Jkelly 03:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to understand why Friday thinks that my block of Torinir is inappropriate for claiming to be a system administrator, but at the same time, he's chiding User:MatthewFenton for claiming to be an admin. If, in fact, we are only called sysops, then MatthewFenton's actions should be completely appropriate. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

This entire situation has escalated far beyond what I ever intended, and now unrelated situations are being brought up. I'd like to wash my hands of this, yet I stand by my actions, so I'm not sure I can. If anyone disagrees strongly enough to change things, let them do so. Friday (talk) 03:24, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

At a wild guess, the distinctions between "chiding" and "blocking", and between "deliberating passing oneself off as a WP admin" and "using a potentially confusing userbox" both seem to be pertinent here. I think it would have been preferable had Friday explicitly consulted with Zoe beforehand, especially if there's "history" there likely to lead to friction from another such action? But: isn't review of the block implicit in the listing here in the first place? Or at least, shouldn't it have been, given how marginal the basis for it was in the first place? Nor was Friday the first person to express disagreement with the block, and that he should be unblocked. It does not seem like an appropriate block to me, if we're actually still discussing that aspect, as opposed to recasting this purely in "wheel war" terms. Alai 03:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Leaving aside the merits of the block (but noting that Zoe did not just fall off the turnip truck) none of us should undo another's admin actions without talking to them first. Unless this just had to be taken care of at once, it should have been discussed with Zoe before anyone unblocked. We need to presume competence - that the admin is probably not just being capricious, but has some reason for what she is doing. If I see an admin action that looks arbitrary, it is likely that I do not know all the facts. Tom Harrison 03:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

You don't own articles you don't own blocks. generaly I take the view that if an admin undoes one of my admin actions whatever the problem that caused me to block becomes their responcibilty. Makes life a lot easyer.Geni 10:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Any admin making a block is obliged to explain said block on the user's talk page. If there's an arbritrary-looking block, the blocking admin did not explain adequately. All admins should act as a check on each other, and this includes (occasionally) undoing unjustified blocks. If people don't consider it a proper admin function for me to act as a check on other admins, let me know and I'll turn in my sysop bit. I have no wish to cause disharmony, only to excercise common sense. Friday (talk) 03:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

See my reply to you above. :) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 04:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I've added a word to the template that should clear up the whole damned mess. --Carnildo 04:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I have never seen the template used as a way to identify admins. I think that it would have been prudent to check the template, where it can clearly be seen that it is in Category:Profession user templates. Also, unlike other admin identifiers, there is no reference to Misplaced Pages, such as the Misplaced Pages logo or a link the Misplaced Pages:Administrators. Since Friday thought that the block was a mistake, rather than a difference in opinion, I do not think unblocking the user was a big deal, especially because the user was right, it is a profession template. Still, according to Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy, it should be discussed with the blocking admin first, if he or she is online, even if it is believed that the block was made in error. I think that the user's perspective should be examined. An admin removed a template from his user page and blocked him for restoring it based upon the incorrect belief that the template is for identifying Misplaced Pages admins, even after he let her know that the template is not used in that way. That seems like a mistake to me. Should users be blocked for disobeying the directions of an admin when they are incorrect and the admin has even been informed that they are incorrect? We have not reached that level of insanity, yet, have we. ;-) -- Kjkolb 05:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Remember when admins weren't allowed to block people unilaterally for anything other than vandalism? The fear of incidents like this was the reason why. At the time, I didn't think the fear was justified. I'm sorry to see myself proven wrong. The original block was a travesty; a hapless Wikipedian, guilty of nothing as far as I can tell, steamrolled by an admin who misunderstood the situation and wouldn't listen to explainations. I find it amazing that Zoe is still defending her actions, and even attacking Friday for undoing the block. If she truly believes her actions were acceptable for an admin on Misplaced Pages, I would prefer she not be one. Isomorphic 06:59, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Your opinion is noted. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Help with user removing dispute tags

GJRFMorelligu (talk · contribs) has for weeks been uploading large numbers of images and when deletion, license, no source, or unfree image tags are added simply removing them. I have tagged dozens of them and tried to discuss the issues with him; however even that discussion has been removed and the actions continue. Could someone new try something? What is the current policy on removing such tags? Rmhermen 02:21, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

What a mess. I left a last warning and bot-rollbacked the image edits. The account needs to be blocked if the user continues. Jkelly 02:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems that this user also edits as 201.208.126.185 and Morelligu (though the latter account hasn't edited since the middle of April). —Bkell (talk) 04:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and blocked the account indefinitely; we ain't got time to deal with people like him. Just remove his images and eventually delete them. User:Zscout370 23:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

harris salomon

the entry for harris salomon has been repeatedly vandalized with slanderous personal attacks. can you please protect it. the version of august 4(the first one) should be the one used. thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.107.79.82 (talk • contribs)

Use WP:RFPP for page protect requests. alphaChimp 16:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

User:68.99.19.167

He's been blocked for a week (second block), but I think an indefinite block may be required; he's vandalized hundreds of articles relating to religion, often in fairly subtle ways (PoV inserts and content deletions and modifications, removing images, etc.), and I've only managed to revert a quarter of his edits so far. (Going down the list, I managed to revert everything down to 03:21, 29 July 2006, although that still leaves scores and scores of edits which someone will need to revert. --Emufarmers 03:59, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

we don't indef block IPs unless they're open proxies. Sasquatch t|c 17:34, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Joe Arpaio history merge assistence needed

Earlier today, the article Joe Arpaio was tagged as a copyvio by Kaszeta . I looked at the text and noted that the copyright violations were not too terrible and could be easily fixed. I noted this on the article's talk page . I followed the instructions and created a new page at Talk:Joe Arpaio/Temp where I proceeded to work on the problems as outlined in the talk page. While I was working on these problems, Wikibofh reverted the copyvio tag and struck the copyvio entry . At that point, I copied the worked I had done on Talk:Joe Arpaio/Temp into Joe Arpaio and tagged it with {{db-histmerge}} to merge the histories of the original article and the copyvio fixes I had done in /Temp. Later, FrancisTyers deleted the article under CSD#G6 (which is correct), but then nothing else has been done for several hours. I left a note on his talk page but have gotten no reply. I assume he has left WP for the day. Essentially, the page has been deleted and needs to be recovered so that a proper history merge can be done. Thank you for your assistence. -- ShinmaWa 03:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. I went to bed, sorry about that! :) - FrancisTyers · 10:16, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Francis! -- ShinmaWa 16:21, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

IP address wrongly listed as zombie computer

66.99.246.226 is wrongly listed as a zombie computer. It is actually the IP of Cary Public Library. Because the library has about 20 computers with an internet connection, many different people use this address. But there are a handful of legit accounts using these computers. Please take note. Vuy 18:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Public library machines can be zombies, and zombies can be cleaned up. Are we trying to track the status of individual machines, and why? Jkelly 19:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Weren't a lot of the machines used by the Squidward vandal from public libraries? Perhaps this was caught under the umbrella of "block anything used by Squidward as a proxy/zombie"? Essjay (Talk) 08:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Wasn't used by squidward, but it does have port 80 and 8080 open, thought they are both currently password protected so probably a false positive on a proxy check. --pgk 08:39, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

TIME Magazine covers:similar issue as with stamps

They are usually used not, as proclaimed in the {{TIME}}, "to illustrate an article, or part of an article, which specifically describes the issue in question or its cover". For example, such a cover is the main image in the Ho Chi Minh article, although that magazine issue even nowhere mentioned in the article. They are also used in a similar way in a number of other places, inluding Julius Nyerere, Aleksei Leonov, etc. If our certain people were so strict to fair use stamps, even those of a defunct state (Soviet ones), then should we give OrphanBot one more "little work": dealing with problematic usage of TIME magazine covers? Cmapm 22:09, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Funny that you should mention TIME magazine covers... Oh, and please don't call people "Nazis". Jkelly 22:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

What is funny, is this not a similar problem? I've heard that phrase a number of times here in Wiki, this word is quite widely used in such cases. Cmapm 22:16, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

And Godwin's Law is thusly proven. Q.E.D. -- ShinmaWa 22:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

This is easy, the comment may be refactored by people, who feel abused. But still you refrain from the answer to my question. Cmapm 22:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

ec Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Ta bu shi da yu 2. And calling people "Nazi" may be offensive to both the people you're addressing, who may not enjoy the comparison, and those that aren't happy about trivialising genocide. Jkelly 22:24, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Provided, that such an issue already arose in the past, it's even more strange for me that the copyright tag's use don't correspond to its proclaimed purpose in {{TIME}} in many cases. Was that victory against overall remover a justification of all future copyright problems with the template? Cmapm 22:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the most relevant question is whether it is likely that Time Warner, the parent company, is likely to place Misplaced Pages high on its list of those infringing on copyright whom it desires to stop. Because of the caprice inherent in adjudging the likelihood of a given copyright holder's demanding the removal of material for which he holds the copyright (or initiating legal action), and in view of our general favoring of free content, we almost haven't a choice but to phrase our copyright policy in the fashion we have, but in individual situations it is, I think, fair to weigh the costs attendant to a prospective legal undertaking (multiplied, of course, against the likelihood of such undertaking) against the value of the copyrighted material to an article. With respect to Soviet stamps, for example, a general policy to the contrary notwithstanding, we can be fairly certain that we may infringe on copyright with impunity; can there be any valid reason for us not to do so? Joe 02:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Two reasons. The first is our core principles, one if which is free reusability, and the other, and less interesting, one is that people have worried that our engaging in infringement that we know we can get away with could be used as an argument against us in a hypothetical suit. Jkelly 02:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC) Joe 03:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I supposed I meant cursorily to dispose of the former with my general favoring of free content, by which I meant to express the extent to which I think we inappropriately elevate the import of non-free non-textual media. I suppose under my formulation, though, where we would treat essentially as free those media that we know to be copyrighted but nevertheless use other than consistent with fair use law, such that the reusability concern wouldn't entail. The latter is, at least to me, a more persuasive argument, and it is one, I suppose, that highlights the problems to which I alluded and the salience of Jkelly's objections. Joe 03:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not touching those images without a mandate from IFD, TFD, or the Foundation. I have no desire to be the target of a lynch mob, virtual or otherwise. --Carnildo 23:06, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I did so, because I believe I've been a target of a virtual lynch mob, who removed 15 or so images of Soviet stamps, scanned by me, without a separate explanation in each case. It's much easier for me to give up uploading images at all, than do the work, that may be so quickly broken on somebody's request. Cmapm 23:22, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Cmapm, do you want me to take a look at the specific images that you are talking about? Are they obvious in your contribs? I do suggest that people shouldn't invest too much time, energy or ownership in unfreely-licensed content. Jkelly 23:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I see that you added two unfree images next to the "See also" section of Antarctica. I'm curious about why you did that, as you seem to be clear that is the kind of usage we just needed a bot run to remove. Jkelly 23:27, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

No. The Bulgarian image was not added by me and it seems to be a free one. The first image was readded by me after retagging it with PD-Soviet (as it is pre-1973) after your bot's task. Now I see, how all that decisions on bot's hiring are made... I see this not to be honest, but leaving it on that people's conscience. Cmapm 12:09, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I need help

that about say it all, I need help reverting all the crap. The user is already indef blocked. Sasquatch t|c 22:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone who helped clear it up :-) Sasquatch t|c 22:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Backlog at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Old

There's a fair backlog at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Old, with one AfD over a week past its sell by date - a mass AfD of what looks like over three dozen articles which seems to have ended in your standard vague merge/delete result with no-one troubling to say what should be merged. Can't imagine why no-one's touched that - I recommend whoever closes it does a "redirect all and anyone who wants to merge can go into the history", personally, I'd do it myself if it wasn't the wrong side of half one in the morning. Most of the due days have less than 10 articles left - if everyone reading this does one it'll probably be gone by the time I wake up tomorrow.--Sam Blanning 00:40, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

• On an unrelated note, article:Old actually exists, would the entire universe collapse into a supper massive blackhole if someone tried to AFD Old? Cats and Dogs living together, the laws of physics all backwards!! Or am I just being excessively melodramatic?--152.163.100.200 04:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Good point. I always wondered what we'd do if someone made a notable film called Main Page. Obviously it would go at Main Page (film), but would we have to put a disambig notice at the top of our main page for all eternity? --Sam Blanning 12:01, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Walter Granger

I ran across this page which read like it was copied from somewhere, and found a page via Google which it was copied from. When I contacted the poster, User:GrangerLore, they claimed copyright ownership. I pointed them to Misplaced Pages:Copyright problems and how they can prove they own teh material, they absolutely refused to do so. I've communicated with the editor several times, and have explained that we need verification of copyright ownership, but they just keep claiming ownership without even making an attempt to provide any proof. I have in the meantime deleted the material. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:14, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I can agree with this. Anyone can claim they own anything. --mboverload@ 01:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Yup, well done. :) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 02:44, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

1. Support your deletion.--Andeh 12:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

RealityBoy

This user is on a photo upload rampage. All of his uploads are copyvios from other websites and don't include copyright tags or other information. Despite being warned he is still uploading massive amounts of images. --Hetar 03:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, Ryjgqm seems to be on a simillar rampage. He claims his photos are gfdl-self but they are obviously not. He has already been warned and shows no signs of stopping. Any help greatly appreciated. --Hetar 05:28, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

RealityBoy was blocked indefinitely by somebody else. I blocked Ryjgqm for 24 hours, for now. I think that he or she should probably be blocked indefinitely. The user has uploaded 54 pictures, many of which are the same picture with a different name, and all of which appear copyrighted. Most of the article edits are to insert the pictures into them. The account has almost no useful edits. -- Kjkolb 08:03, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I made the block indefinite. If someone disagrees, they can change it if they want to, although providing the reasoning would be helpful. -- Kjkolb 05:36, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

I'll bite, why is AN/i protected?--152.163.100.200 04:52, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Its not... Viridae 04:54, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Says unprotect, so must be. --DanielCD 04:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, sprotect, same difference for me--152.163.100.200 04:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Only admins can see that tab. Ask User:Antandrus, he did the protect. --DanielCD 04:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I still see no sign of WP:ANI being protected at all...? Viridae 04:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

It was sprotected from yesterday: I unprotected it just now (it's still protected from moves, of course) Antandrus (talk) 04:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Still can' work out why it wasn't showing up as sprotected. Oh well. Viridae 08:45, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Watchlisting/blacklisting users as part of user sub page (unofficial wikiproject)

I just wanted to make a note of the page, seemingly a personal wikiproject, at User:AMbroodEY/Fundy_Watch. What concerns me is the venomous accusation and watchlisting of several users at the watchlist page of the project User:AMbroodEY/Fundy_Watch/Watch_List. Though the project states its goal to promote NPOV, the watchlists, and adjectives given to users (see diff) makes it appear otherwise.

The watchlist also contains phrases like "not really islamist but bible thumpers", "Has religious implications. Edited by ultra-right Christian fundamentalist HolyWarrior and dbachman, biased because I think he might be Witzel's student", "User:Dbachmann Potentially dangerous anti-Hindu. he is an admin! He has abused his priviledges to make POV edits to Michael Witzel article by removing all criticisms of witzel." etc. in relation to several articles and editors.

Also related is the MFD : Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:AMbroodEY/Fundy Watch.

Thanks. --Ragib 06:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

If there is anything on[REDACTED] that makes me annoyed - that does. What happened to WP:NPOV and WP:NPA. Viridae 08:44, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

NPOV is for mainspace and templates --mboverload@ 11:01, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I realise that and thats what I am talking about (look further at the pages). Oh and I forgot WP:AGF before (look at the watch list). Viridae 11:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Though then again It could be argued that I am in violation of WP:AGF with this one. Viridae 11:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Now, it seems like voting on the MFD yields even more venom from the members of the group, who denigrate the voters with personal attacks like "Comment -- User:Ragib is in cahoots with one of the watchees ().Bakaman%% 15:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)" or "Comment - Comment made by a supporter of Witzel. Witzel's views on Hinduism (lets just say they're negative) are documented. Timothy Usher's friend User:Dbachmann has threatened Netaji many times, and has made personal attacks. Usher still supports the wild admin. Bakaman%% 15:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)". This just proves the point once again. --Ragib 16:41, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Update: while this is under MFD, it has spawned copies of the "Enemies' list" in guise of "guilds" -- see Category:Patriotic Indian Wikipedian's Guild. --Ragib 05:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Uncategorized categories?

User:ProveIt regularily combs through Special:Uncategorizedcategories and tries to categorize the uncategorized, and he left me a note saying that the page hadn't been updated on its normal schedule. I suspect that it is a product of the quasi mystical (to me at least) developer beings, but thought I'd drop a note here in case I could help him out by going to some page and hitting a button as an admin flagged account. Otherwise, if its just someone on vacation / toolserver being down / reducing the frequency of the updates / someone's going away party where everyone had too much to drink and went back to snooze in their cubicles and it will be returning shortly, then not a problem. Syrthiss 11:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you to whoever fixed it ... -- ProveIt 22:05, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Sarastro777

I've deleted a lot of material from this person's userpage as per this diff. I don't know if this person has any previous history of being discussed in this forum. Basically, he and some others claim that various admins are agents of the Israeli government or simply resolute Zionists determined to crush any criticism of Israel. I expect that I'll now be added to the list. If no one else is doing so already, could some others keep an eye on this user? Sorry if this is old news; I've been a bit out of circulation just lately. Metamagician3000 13:29, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I have suggested to him that the material is likely to be taken as an attack on Jewish and Israeli users, and asked him to remove it. He declines to do so. Any thoughts? Tom Harrison 17:37, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Despite his/her protests, at least his/her userpage no longer has a list of "rogue admins" who are supposedly pawns of Israel. Metamagician3000 00:52, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Mirosław Vitali

Was deleted as a possible copyvio. The creator of the article, User:Syrenab says it was his own work, based on his web site. Is there any way to get the thing undeleted? Thanks. :) Dlohcierekim 15:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Not unless the contents of his website are released under GFDL. Assuming this is the website in question, the material is "Copyright © 2006 Syrena". He can either replace the copyright notice on that webpage with a GFDL notice, or rewrite the biography for Misplaced Pages, but as long as he holds copyright to it then he can't release it under the GFDL, and can't post it on Misplaced Pages. --Sam Blanning 16:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

The GFDL is a license; it does not relinquish copyright. If the material truly belongs to the user in question, they are allowed to release it under as many different licenses as they wish. There's no need to replace the copyright notice on the site. Isomorphic 18:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I think you're a bit off the mark there. One can hold a copyright and decide to release the material under GFDL (or copyrighted free use or other free licences). Releasing material which the user owns the copyright to under GFDL in no way means he must change or remove a copyright notice from an existing copy of similar material. -- Infrogmation 18:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I undeleted it and reverted to pre speedy tag version. Article still needs cleaning up to Wiki formats. -- Infrogmation 19:09, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

He still has to prove that he's the copyright owner, just claiming it is not verification. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

So, perhaps should go to WP:CP rather than speedy, I suppose. -- Infrogmation 23:03, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with speed deleting any copyvio on sight. If it's truly their information to release, they can do so and recreate the article. --mboverload@ 05:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Requesting block review

I blocked Shakim67 for 1 month as it is an admitted sockpuppet account of Can't Nobody Step To Me, which was blocked for 1 month for personal attacks both on-wiki and through the registered email address both accounts share. It has been reviewd once and upheld. I would like some other admins to weigh in so that this user doesn't feel like the evil cabal is out to get him. Thanks. —WAvegetarian•(talk) 20:02, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

It actually looks a little more complex than that, the account User:Shakim67 has previously been blocked for personal attacks, it was prior to that block expiring that User:Can't Nobody Step To Me was created (under a different name initially, but subsequently renamed). Can't Nobody Step To Me has now been blocked for engaging in personal attacks and now the user is trying to use User:Shakim67 to evade that block... --pgk 20:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Well yes, there was User:Shinemygrillz, and a couple of other connected accounts which claim to be siblings. They keep leaving themselves logged in/stealing passwords/not keeping passwords secret. All of them have abused {{helpme}} and are very familiar to regulars of #wikipedia-bootcamp. I have felt at times like blocking them all for effectively being unauthorized group accounts.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 20:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes User:Shinemygrillz was the the pre-rename name of User:Can't Nobody Step To Me, I haven't kept track of all the others. --pgk 21:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I also ran into Shakim67 a while ago when he was removing warnings, claiming more edits than he had made, claiming he was older than he had previously claimed, etc. —Quarl 2006-08-07 18:34Z

forwarded from my talk

Please block User:125.236.44.42 Would it be possible to allow people to create accounts from this IP address, but to block people from making unsigned-in edits from there? That is a little less severe than blocking the IP outright, but even that would seem to be justified.

By the way, what is this - a school for delinquent kids? All of the edits that I looked at from this IP (roughly 40) were either acts of vandalism or fixing that vandalism. One only has to look at the User:talk page to see how rife the problem is.Paulgush 03:01, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

yes, that'd be possible, but I'll post it at WP:AN so other admins can comment -- Drini 03:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'll bite. 1 month. Wikibofh_(talk) 04:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikibofh, does the block allow account creation, as requested? If so, should that be noted on the talk page? -- Kjkolb 05:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

It does not block account creation. I'm loathe to block both anon and account creation. Blocking anon is normally enough since people have to actually do something to create an account. Wikibofh_(talk) 14:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Comedy Template Idea

This is for the Comedy oriented vandal:

Image of a Triangle, "flourescent"/neon yellow background, black borders of said triangle w/ a ! in it, on the upper left of the template. Message: If you are here to be funny, take your act to Uncyclopedia, where your humor is appreciated. Link is www.uncyclopedia.org. This is a encyclopedia. Continued vandalisim will get you blocked, even banned.

Of course, it has to be proven that the vandal is doing so as a comic routine, if so, send them to Uncyclopedia. On there, they can create jokes to their hearts' content.

Is this a good idea ? Martial Law 06:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

IIRC, we had something like this earlier, but was deleted. I would wait on making this. User:Zscout370 06:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea to me. Why don't we have it anymore? The Ungovernable Force 06:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of humor, I was bored and did this. I like the template too, though. RyanGerbil10(The people rejoice!) 06:38, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

That was great. :) Garion96 (talk) 13:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I like it... unfortunately there were several fair use images in there, which we can't use outside of the articles in which fair use is justified. I've removed them. Hopefully something free can be used instead. --Sam Blanning 13:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

It's a terrible idea. Uncyclopaedia don't want our vandals. Writing good humour is probably more difficult than writing factual articles. I was the one who removed it from Template:Funnybut. --Sam Blanning 13:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I was under the impression that that tag only got used for pranksters of the Uncyc. mold, not the average "...is gay" sort (Maybe there should be uncyclopedia:How to be funny and not just stupid as a noinclude ;D!) A suggestion... 68.39.174.238 11:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Ideally, yes, but it doesn't happen. I'd say most people intelligent enough to be able to contribute humour at the level that Unencyclopaedia requires would be too intelligent to vandalise. --Sam Blanning 22:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Microsoft screenshots

Someone on IRC asked about a particular image (Image:Windows_Vista_5472_desktop.png, mentioning that Microsoft's licensing specifically says you should not use screenshots of beta software. Do we care? Comments? --Golbez 10:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

That means we don't have their permission to use the screenshots, but we don't have permission to use any of the fair use stuff we present. That's the essence of fair use - we're claiming we have an encyclopedic need to present a given image, in moderation, to support our article about its subject, and we do so without the permission of the copyright owner. If they really feel that such a screenshot is the fruit of someone breaking a click-through licence, let 'em write to the foundation - there's no need to prior-restrain ourselves on the theory that they might. We do, of course, still have to stick to our WP:FAIR policies properly (which, among other things, means we shouldn't be displaying the image inline here). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 10:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

But they should definitely be resized to lower resolutions. They being "fair use" they shouldn't have a resolution much higher than it's needed on the articles. Articles don't need more than 300px or so, so images should be downsized to that. -- Drini 17:01, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Urgent: User:MagentaThompson is a sock of User:PennyGWoods and is threatening me...again

This is just a heads up. A few months ago, Penny was indefinitely blocked for personal attacks and (literally) death threats involving the Halle Berry page. Well in the last few days, she has returned as User:MagentaThompson. I didn't catch it until she used the exact same language and style as Penny. Here is an edit by Magenta and here is an edit by Penny. And here is a long convo I had with Penny in which she uses the same style as Magenta. Anyway, I blocked Magenta indefinitely since she's a banned user trying to get around the ban by starting a new account. She then she used an IP and essentially admitted that she was the same person. I'm writing this as a heads up since she extensively used sockpuppets the last time she was blocked, so please watch out for it. If we can get as many people as we can watchlisting Halle Berry and Nona Gaye, that'd be great. Thanks. --Woohookitty 12:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Wonderful. And she just gave me another veiled death threat. --Woohookitty 12:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

And now . --Woohookitty 12:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

blocked indefinitely by Syrthiss (talk · contribs) (who beat me to it). dab (ᛏ) 14:09, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

So so far, we have MagentaThompson, MThompson and MagThompson. Jeez. --Woohookitty 14:16, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

User page link spam?

I could use opinions on whether I've found an innovative form of link spamming using user pages: I noticed that User:Arteworks created a user page for a different person's name: User:Ronmaier. This user has made no edits, and the userpage reads like an article that wouldn't pass WP:BIO. The inclusion of two external links to Ron Maier's businesses is what caused a red flag to appear, given that Arteworks is in the search engine optimization business. Am I being paranoid, or is this external link spamming? Thanks. --MichaelZimmer (talk) 14:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I have deleted the page. --Nearly Headless Nick 15:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

It's okay; he's obviously not as good at search engine manipulation as he claims. All external links on userspace pages have the rel="nofollow" attribute, so they don't affect Google PageRank. Keep an eye on this editor for future attempts at spamlinking, however. If there's any evidence of sockpuppeting, a CheckUser might root out any accounts the guy is using to try to spam our articles. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:30, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to list a user page you feel isn't appriopriate at WP:MfD. Especially user pages of owners whom haven't edited elsewhere.--Andeh 12:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

undeleet

please uneleet wikichat after reading the "holdon"! JosephK19 15:32, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Creating an article "for all wikipedian's who love to chat!" is not appropriate. Misplaced Pages is not a discussion forum or a social networking site. --MichaelZimmer (talk) 15:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Troll. Nobody speels that badly unless it's intentional. User:Zoe|(talk) 23:44, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

user recreating deleted category: Category:Gangster Wikipedian

I closed yesterday a CFD on Category:Gangster Wikipedians. Linky: Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_July_30 notice the date of the CFD (july 30) and I deleted it on august 7. However someone had already opened a second CFD at august 6 (even before the 1st one was closed). I didn't noticed this and it was pointed to me. Since the 1st CFD was valid and had more than a week of course, with good participation, I closed it and acted according that consensus, thus removed the cateogry and speeedy closed the 2nd spurious cfd. It seems there's a single user insisting on the category to be created, since he's the only one that uses. I don't consider the DRV on august 6 to be valid, since the CFD was still open and I closed it on 7th. Moreover, DRV should only disucss wether the closing was valid or not. It's NOT a vote to overturn deletion discussions when an users is unhappy about the outcome. Consensus was achieved on the July30-August7 and thus it's a valid closing.

User:syphonbyte is the user who keeps recreating CFDs, the one that does the DRV, (which closed BEFORE I closed the CFD) and the ony one that uses the category. -- Drini 16:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Woo-hoo!

I made Hivemind :-D www.wikipedia-watch.org/hivemind.html#048. I wonder which particular blocked POV pusher nominated me? I'd like to thank them... Just zis Guy you know? 17:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

1. Support I could have sworn he was already in the Hivemind. JoshuaZ 17:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Beat you to it! (I just discovered today) --woggly 17:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Pshaw, they let just anyone in nowadays. I didn't see Woggly in there - what are you in as? Maybe we should have a category for hiveminders :-) Just zis Guy you know? 19:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

AFAIK, you've been there for ages, dear Guy and Woggly. That's how I visited your homepage btw, Guy ;) Phaedriel ♥ The Wiki Soundtrack!♪ - 20:14, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Is Brandt a Scientologist? The only thing he has against Tony is that he is anti-scientology. It would certainly explain the kooky pursuit of people he disagrees with. --mboverload@ 21:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The most ironic thing about Daniel Brandt's hivemind page is that he advocates privacy on the internet, and then he goes off an publishes a plethora of personal information about all of us wikipedians... The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 22:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

All you need to do to get on the list is call Brandt a "certified kook"? Now I'm annoyed that I'm not on it. Well, here goes: Daniel Brandt is a nincompoop of the highest order, a ne'er-do-well whose egregerious buffoonery I have on good authority caused his mother to go into an early grave. Then she came out again after the local constable was called and he administered smelling salts and told her to stop being so fucking emo. Following the scandal she cut off Brandt's allowance and he now scrapes together a living at the greyhound track, sellotaping together torn-up tickets looking for winners mistakenly thrown away by short-sighted gentlemen. Take that, WP:BLP. --Sam Blanning 23:00, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Bah, I was on the list before it was cool. BrokenSegue

Getting hive-minded is, like, soooooo 2005! Get with the times Guy! I see my name there now and think, "Oh, how gauche!" --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 08:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Paid-to-edit articles

People might be interested to note User:MyWikiBiz, who seems to be described in this press release:

A new service has begun at MyWikiBiz.com. Companies and organizations that currently lack an article on Misplaced Pages can remedy that situation by using the services of MyWikiBiz.com. (...)

The articles of theirs I've glanced at look decent enough - no major notability issues, short simple articles, but it's probably worth keeping a close eye on them anyway. Shimgray | talk | 18:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

If someone knows the Misplaced Pages policy, style and quirks, they are likely to be able to do an excellent job of this. Provided they are prepared to reject clients who don't meet notability criteria. Notinasnaid 18:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I see two issues. First, multiple people may be editing through the account which is a nono. However, if they make an article off-wiki and then upload that would presumably be ok. Also, this doesn't seem to violate the spirit of that rule. The second issue is more serious, which is that this could set a bad precedent. JoshuaZ 18:36, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

This was mentioned at WT:CSD. I don't see a problem. They only write articles for companies that meet WP:CORP , which in my mind sets the best precedent we could ask for. Sure, they're unlikely to include much that reflects badly on the company, but that can be added by someone else - an incomplete article is better than nothing. The only problem I can forsee is if they also start defending articles against all criticism (even when sourced), and as far as I'm concerned we should assume good faith and wait for that to start happening. If they are indeed familiar with how things work here, they probably won't do that. And, as JoshuaZ says, User:MyWikiBiz may be a role account, so I've asked on the account's talk page whether that's the case. --Sam Blanning 22:51, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

And User:MyWikiBiz has told me that although they weren't aware of the policy, only one employee uses that account and they will make our policy theirs. . --Sam Blanning 09:04, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

CAT:ORFU cleanup automation

I have started a thread considering a possible automation of CAT:ORFU cleanup at the Village Pump. Comments are welcome. Misza13 20:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

All is explained

Benford's law of controversy. Spookily accurate... Just zis Guy you know? 21:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I love pressing Special:Random every once in a while. :D Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 23:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

User threatening large scale removal of material

, should his block be extended or shoud someone who is uninvolved give him a polite note explaining to that "You agree to license your contributions under the GFDL." means what it says? JoshuaZ 21:39, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed the explitive per Misplaced Pages:Profanity. Need an actual admin to go and decide what to do with this user. Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 23:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Since nobody else has left him a message I did, but other admins still need to talk to him, keep his contributions on suicide watch, etc. Ashibaka tock 02:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Lions Clubs International

Speaking as a Lion I would like to say, "nice article." However, there is one small problem with images linked to that page. They are pictures taken of LCIF logos. LCIF actively enforces its copyrights, and they might consider these images copy vios. Please let me know. If there isn't a problem, I will certainly look forward to using them on my user page. Cheers,  :) Dlohcierekim 22:09, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate your efforts, but this isn't the place to discuss general problems with specific articles. Try Misplaced Pages:Copyrights, there are several ways to report copyright concerns. - Taxman 22:35, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Admins needed at Highways

At Misplaced Pages:State route naming conventions poll we need admins to judge... so check it out if you are interested. Thanks! --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 00:17, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Admin names being used to scew search results

Apparently several advertising sites such as www dot y o u r s u p e r c a r dot com have been haversting names of wiki admins , likely in an attempt to raise their search ratings. This particular site has been shut down due to TOS violations, but if you have an unusual admin name, you might want to google yourself and see if any other odd results are appearing. — xaosflux 02:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

If this form of googlebombing becomes common enough it might make sense for an official channel to mention it to google. JoshuaZ 03:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Checking if you are the first Google hit? Just kidding :) -- ReyBrujo 03:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't need to worry. There are advantages to common name....JoshuaZ 03:33, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Just wondering, is it really harvesting? I think they just pay to appear when search includes "car speakers" -- ReyBrujo 04:04, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Um, that search didn't turn anything up for me, and how would they do that since google doesn't let money effect their rankings? JoshuaZ 04:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Ehem, wrong clipboard. Fixed now. I mean, if you don't search for "car speakers", you don't get their hits. I removed "car speakers" from Xaosflux's query, and I did not get their link. Unless I am missing something. -- ReyBrujo 04:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but that would be expected. Without "car speakers" the page is probably so low on the google search ranking that it doesn't bother to even list the car speaker one (or maybe lists it many pages down). JoshuaZ 04:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Why would people search admin names!?--Andeh 12:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

*shrug* I've seen mine turn up in various spammish word salad webpages, and I'm fairly sure that there aren't a lot of other FreplySpangs out there. "I market asked Client-side :FreplySpang to b612 this but she raised some homeopaths transmogrified that she did not choreograph in the cargo-handling..." Damn right I didn't choreograph those homeopaths. So what? FreplySpang 14:23, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The hits do show up without specifying "car speakers", just low on the list, but if you go 20, 30 pages in they start flooding, not just car speakers, I've seen lots of these, many auto related though. — xaosflux 03:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Can someone who knows more about how ranking algorithms work please explain how this would alter search results in any case where one hasn't explicity searched for the name of an admin? The only thing this seems to do is make Daniel Brandt have to look at a lot of speaker adds if he wants to add anyone to the hivemind. JoshuaZ 03:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Admin names are almost certainly not being targeted. Spam sites harvest content from other websites so that they will appear to be relevant in search results and so that Google will give them as search results for the terms in the content that they harvested. They often break up the text into pieces and then jumble it around. Some phrases are still intact, but not sentences. In the old days, they copied the whole page and left it intact. For Misplaced Pages, however, I have found sites that have a long page of Administrators' Noticeboard comments or Articles for Deletion nominations. Also, someday, can we stop making the Internet suck and get rid of the Misplaced Pages mirrors in search results? We've become much worse than spam sites and link farms for many searches, especially on obscure topics. Google is clearly not up to the job, as the problem was brought to their attention years ago. The CustomizeGoogle plugin is nice, but it does not remove them from the results entirely. -- Kjkolb 07:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Sega Touring Car Championship

Someone, apparently to make a WP:POINT has AFD'ed a bunch of articles, and then created multiple socks to vote delete, based on the articles being created by the since-banned User:EnthusiastFRANCE. Can we get these speedily closed? Fan-1967 02:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

All been closed in one big swoop.--Andeh 12:33, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Robert Steele

User talk:Robert Steele here deletes a link to a commercial competitor and here offers money to subvert wikipedia. WAS 4.250 04:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

This is unacceptable behavior. Would anyone object if I indef blocked him and let the foundation take care of this? JoshuaZ 04:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Uh, he's offering money -- not a lot of money, at that -- to people to write articles about areas that interest him. Emphases mine:

I got explicit approval for hiring a professional Wiki editor to get this page out of its slump, and to lead a team that can over time discourage trolls, morons, self-promoters, and bureaucrats intent on concealing the truthful history of ineptness in OSINT. While I was told to post to the WikiList first, I believe that those of your who have volunteered here already deserve a first shot. I am thinking in terms of $250 increments, and over time this could become a weekly amount as we move beyond this page to create or contribute to ten Wiki pages on the ten High-Level threats to humanity (Poverty, Infectuous Disease, Environmental Degradation, Inter-State Conflict, Civil War, Genocide, Other Atrocities, Proliferation, Terrorism, and Transnational Crime. It is clearly understood that I have to identify or post secondary works, and then work with the professional editor to get them properly integrated.

And the "subversion" in that 'graf is what, exactly? --Calton | Talk 06:33, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Well "got explicit approval for hiring a professional Wiki editor to get this page out of its slump, and to lead a team that can over time discourage trolls, morons, self-promoters, and bureaucrats intent on concealing the truthful history of ineptness in OSINT" and "Wiki policy will accept vendors creating a single paragraph and URL link to their home page, and abusive vendors like LEXIS-NEXIS will be cut back to that." This sounds like someone who thinks he knows The Truth and is willing to pay people to promote it. Taken together with the removal of his competitor's link (and the accompanying edit summary) I have trouble seeing how this could possibly be a good thing. JoshuaZ 06:38, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Repeating the words of the quote and saying, in effect, "it's obvious!" is, shall we say, less than convincing -- as does ignoring the highlighted portions explicitly acknowledging Misplaced Pages standards that must be met, which last time I looked were nothing about The Truth, but verifiability. So, mind pointing the actual "subversion", the phrases that don't require projection? --Calton | Talk 07:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Judge him by his behavior: , , . WAS 4.250 07:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

That second link is a month old, and the post above allegedly under discussion, well, isn't.

Judge him by his behavior No, you asked us to judge him by his words -- words somewhat more recent than a month old. Were you going to actually say why, or are you going to change the subject again? Maybe we can judge him by his spelling? His haircut? Or you could, you know, actually articulate an answer to the question asked. --Calton | Talk 10:22, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, please don't insert newer comments above older ones (ie mine). If you wish to refer to a comment by another user that someone has already replied to, please do so below the original reply. Viridae 10:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

That's what indenting is for, and I WAS directly replying to a comment, which why I, you know, put it directly under the comment I was replying to. Not difficult. --Calton | Talk 23:59, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

That second link is VERY disturbing. Viridae 07:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

On second thoughts, they all are. Viridae 07:50, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Considerng the point of the not-month-old posting above is, in effect, a mea culpa for earlier stuff -- and given that the timeflow in this universe is in one direction only and stuff that happens after other stuff is generally considered to supercede the earlier stuff -- why is that a priori a problem or applicable? --Calton | Talk 10:22, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Can you please explain yourself using english not missused latin. (Mea culpa translates to my own fault). Viridae 10:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, ":Considering the point of the not-month-old posting above is, in effect, a it's my fault, I was wrong for earlier stuff..."

There you go. Or are going to pretend you don't understand that, too? --Calton | Talk 23:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I see no point in continuing this conversation. I do not want to be involved in arguing, I was only commenting on three links that were posted. Viridae 05:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

This isn't that complicated, the user has a massive POV calling Lexis-Nexis an abusive vendor and he would rather have their article reduced together with 'the comment bureaucrats intent on concealing the truthful history of ineptness in OSINT makes it sound to me like he is essentially paying people to POV push. Between that and his earlier comments, we should ask Jimbo what is going on here. JoshuaZ 12:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

His continuing edits are: . If Misplaced Pages is for sale, I think we can get a better price. WAS 4.250 22:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC) Makes me remember Jeffrey Vernon Merkey. WAS 4.250 22:40, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

This isn't that complicated True. The word for that is "projection". Once again, what is it in the words that he actually used makes it "subversion"? -- and try to do it without the mindreading this time.

Oh, and I've reposted the Steele posting that WAS 4.250 deleted until such time that WAS 4.250 can actually explain why it's a Bad Thing. --Calton | Talk 23:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The reason seems to me to be clear. It may be due to poor phrasing, but it looks very much like Steele wants to pay people to push his POV. JoshuaZ 03:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Autobiography says "You should wait for others to write an article about subjects in which you are personally involved. This applies to articles about you, your achievements, your business, your publications, your website, your relatives, and any other possible conflict of interest." Steele has a very clear conflict of interest. Enough so that he himself needs not to edit the articles he is proposing to pay others to edit. Paying others to do what he himself is not allowed to do is not acceptable behavior. WAS 4.250 04:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

You know, any time you two want to actually address the actual words used by Steele using their actual meanings -- instead of making up stuff and yelling BOOGEDY BOOGEDY BOOGEDY -- is fine by me.

This may or may not be a spectacularly bad idea and maybe it would set a bad precedent. But "AIEEE! MONSTERS UNDER THE BED! BOOGEDY BOOGEDY BOOGEDY!" is not really a convincing argument. --Calton | Talk 05:19, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, the phrase that is most concerning (in addition to his history of problematic edits) is "discourage trolls, morons, self-promoters, and bureaucrats intent on concealing the truthful history of ineptness in OSINT." Now, that sounds strongly like the sort of thing users say when they think that their POV is the Truth. Do we need to spell this out anymore? JoshuaZ 05:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

banned username? supermod

I noticed there's a user with a name supermod. Should this be a banned name? I'd say yes. St.isaac 07:10, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd agree. If I received a warning from supermod, I would definitely assume he was an admin. alphaChimp 07:13, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

perhaps usersnames could be restricted so they could not end in "mod" St.isaac 07:59, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Then things like modern, modarna, mode etc wouldn't be allowed.--Andeh 12:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

No, I said usernames could not end in "mod" St.isaac 20:38, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

• I don't find anything particularly bannable about the name. I wouldn't make any assumptions about warnings I had received from such a name - nor would I have done as a newbie - perhaps this is a cultural or generational bias.--A Y Arktos\ 00:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Every online forum I have ever been in disallowed the use of mod or admin in the name. As a newbie it would be a correct assumption to assume that we wouldn't allow usernames that smell likes they have power they don't have. It's standard practice, and I don't see why we should allow someone that name or anything similiar.

WP:PAIN

Could I get more admins to watchlist the personal attack noticeboard please? We had 7 open cases earlier. We still have 5 and a couple are literally 2 days old. --Woohookitty 09:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

It's usually empty, I guess that's why few people look there.--Andeh 12:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Primetime socking around again

555jyj (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) admits (via his obnoxious and notorious trolling) that he's a sock of the indefinately banned User:Primetime. Is this grounds for blocking?

Nevermind, it's been taken care of. Thanx dude. 68.39.174.238 12:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Content disclaimer

Can someone with the appropriate bits, and a few spare minutes, update Misplaced Pages:Content disclaimer? There are several outstanding edit requests on its talk page. Thanks. —Steve Summit (talk) 12:04, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

No page exists seen as a question mark

I notice that when a peage doesn't exist, it normally appears red, but now it is black with a red question mark. Is there currently a dicsussion for the changes? Thanks, Iolakana| 16:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Check your My Preferences page, the Misc section. This is something that you can change yourself. You can choose to see a red link or a Question Mark link. As a matter of interest the Question Mark link was the original way of doing it but most people prefer the red links nowadays. -- Derek Ross | Talk 16:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

And if that doesn't help, clear your browser cache (ctrl-shift-R). Kusma (討論) 16:38, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

It happens to me once in a while, randomly. I assume it's a bug in Mediawiki somewhere. It's not reproducible. —Quarl 2006-08-08 19:33Z

Gahhh. This happened to me the other day, and I tried to bother the .css page about it. Went away after a little while, though. Didn't know it was a preference.. -- nae'blis 19:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Sandbox

I'm not sure if this is the right place to report this, but I opened the Sandbox and it had been completely wrecked by a Bobby Boulder or someone, who claimed he was fighting a 'holy war' against Misplaced Pages. I just went back there and it was gone, but I think it still might merit investigation. LawnGnome 16:27, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Nah, the sandbox is always filled with garbage. -- Drini 18:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

That makes sense, but it was like ten paragraphs (with a pic or two) that talked about the mission to destroy[REDACTED] and all that, and had an email address to join a 'numerous society of vandals', it looked like an article. Actually, I just thought of this, if they were a *good* vandal, they probably wouldn't be stupid enough to vandalize the sandbox, since that's all that's there anyway. All right, it's prob'ly nothing, but it was a slightly impressive vandalism. LawnGnome 21:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe Essjaybot resets the sandbox a couple of times a day anyway. Thatcher131 (talk) 00:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Just go to User:EssjayBot and manually reset the sandbox. alphaChimp 00:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

New summary bot - detecting backlogs / requests

I have recently created a bot-based summary to follow up on the RFA summary and AFD summary. This new function, which I have dubbed the Category Tracker, monitors a selection of administrative and editing related categories and identifies when they have an unusually high number of items in them compared to their long-term means, and hence are in need of some attention. The full tracking page covers a couple dozen different categories and gives statistics on their fluctuations. In addition, I also created a summary table (transcluded here) to give easy access to the most important or most backlogged categories.

There is also a configuration page which can be used to adjust which categories are monitored, where they are displayed, and how often they are updated.

I hope this proves useful. Dragons flight 18:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Keen! Good work. -- Infrogmation 18:45, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

This is lovely! Thanks. -- Natalya 20:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Nice work, now admins can now prioritize their tasks better.--Andeh 21:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Awesome work! --mboverload@ 00:07, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't appear to be counting many of the very large image speedy cats.--Peta 00:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Unblock needs review

68.102.193.78 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was blocked by Freakofnurture with the summary "reinstating previous block", without contacting Essjay to understand why the user was unblocked. I attempted to contact Freak about this block and got no reply, so I have unblocked the user (who is in e-mail contact with me). To avoid the appearance of blind wheel-warring, I also post this action here for review. (ESkog) 21:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

If you couldnt contact Freakofnurture how are you so certain he hadn't already conferred with Essjay? --pgk 06:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Need fix on protected template

There's a system variable, CURRENTMONTHNAMEGEN, that no longer works. It used to return August, now returns <august-gen>. It was used in a lot of places for building daily transclusion pages, like AFD. Most of the references have been fixed, but Template:Afdx still needs to be fixed, and is Protected. Just replace the value with CURRENTMONTHNAME. (See Template:Afd, which was fixed by Titoxd, for comparison.) Fan-1967 21:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 21:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

WP:AUTO problem

User:Joe Carter is an employee of the Family Research Council. I'm involved slightly in an edit conflict with him on that page so if some uninvolved admin could point him to WP:AUTO I'd appreciate it. Thanks. JoshuaZ 21:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Either an article, or my mind, is missing.

On, or about, July 31, 2006, i created an article entitled Connor Barrett. Here is the link that was also generated, and that I sent to a friend who had helped me. http://en.wikipedia.org/Connor_Barrett. I then added the article to my list of articles on my user page, where it appeared in blue. Today it shows as red and I am perplexed, perturbed and possibly pissed. Can anyone here help or enlighten me? Carptrash 22:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

It was deleted on 31 July 2006 by Stifle for being an article about a person that did not explain the notability of its subject. See Misplaced Pages:Notability. —Bkell (talk) 22:11, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Bkell. Several people spent a lot of time and effort on that article and while it was no polished jewel i was working on it - and i am rather offended that it would be deleted without my being informed. I see that it was nixxed by one calling him or her self "Stifle" and it is easy to see where that name comes from. I would like to see the article returned to wikipedia, i believe that it begins with a rather long list of Barrett's accomplishments, sculptor, musician, painter, graphic artist, poet, but if that's not enough, please let me know and i'll try and find some more. Carptrash 22:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC) Carptrash 22:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Biographies which do not demonstrate their relevance or significance will be speedily deleted, as yours was. I do not know what your article's exact contents were, but if the article was speedily deleted, I would assume it met the deletion criteria. --Emufarmers 22:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The article was about a sculptor, only one of whose works, for a block of flats, is listed. Apparently he's also a poet, I assume, since a poem was included, though there was nothing to indicate that it was his poem. If you can make the argument that the article meets our guideline at WP:BIO, then you can take your case to Deletions for review. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:33, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

since this is obviously a good faith complaint, and since the article was speedied unceremoniously (no doubt also in good faith), I have restored it: If you want to delete it, put it through Afd. If you want it to be kept, provide references supporting the subject's notability. dab (ᛏ) 22:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I see User:Dbachmann has unilaterally undeleted it without going through DRV, claiming it isn't speedyable, even though there is nothing in the article which claims notability. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, it was speedied unilaterlly, wasn't it? Seeing that lots of refereces are given, I can really see no justification for the speedying. Passes the Pokemon test with flying colours, I'd say. It can still be go on Afd, what's the harm in that? dab (ᛏ) 22:40, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Your undeletion said that it wasn't a candidate for speedying, which is obviously untrue, if you read the article. You also failed to discuss it with the deleting admin before unilaterally undeleting. You should have taken it to DRV. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:45, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I see no reason not to undelete a contested speedy- what's easily done can be easily undone. Friday (talk) 22:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course you don't. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I have no opinion on this, but Stifle should have alerted Carptrash, using {{nn-warn}}. I have restored it, putting {{importance}}, and Zoe has put it on Afd now. I honestly don't see what is so upsetting about this, it's a disputed speedy, so put it on Afd, case closed. dab (ᛏ) 22:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I am going to take a deep breath now. The real problem, from my perspective, is the lack of collegiality from admins who revert other admins without prior discussion. This is happening much too frequently. How does it hurt to talk to the deleting admin before undeleting? User:Zoe|(talk) 23:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

From Misplaced Pages:Wheel war, in big bold letters at the top of the page: Contact the administrator if you disagree with one of his/her actions. Gain consensus before reverting the administrative actions of others.. User:Zoe|(talk) 23:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

To avoid undoing another admin when it's reasonable to do so would bog us down in needless bureaucracy. Perhaps centralized discussion of this issue would be handy, since it has been coming up a lot lately. Friday (talk) 23:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

If you are unwilling to follow the guideline, perhaps you should discuss changing it to "go ahead and revert any other admin's work that you want, after all, you know what's best for Misplaced Pages". User:Zoe|(talk) 23:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

My userpage makes my stance pretty clear. A revert, of an edit or an admin action, should not be done lightly. But to say it should never be done is insanity. Friday (talk) 23:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I really think you should take a deep breath, Zoe. I do not consider my action wheel-warring: I restored the article, once, and documented my action here for everyone to see. Stifler deleted a new article in passing (out of process, I might add, by not alerting its creator). I did not assume Stifler had an emotional involvement with his decision, and neither do I. This is just housekeeping stuff. I wouldn't ring up a janitor telling him he misplaced a broom, I'd just move it to the proper cupboard. "Go ahead" is indeed our first guideline, as long as you do it informedly, in good faith, politely and in the open. If Zoe thinks that this means she has to re-delete the article, I invite her to do that. dab (ᛏ) 23:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

A revert, of an edit or an admin action, should not be done lightly. But to say it should never be done is insanity. True. However, would you mind pointing to someone who has actually argued such a thing, oh, in the last two years or so? You appear to have left out a key phrase. --Calton | Talk 00:07, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I am sensing a definite All wikipedians are created equal, but . . .... some are more equal than others thing here. If the article had not been deleted without notifying it's author then the same thing would not needed to have been done to an administrator. Yet the crime here seems to be that an administrator was overturned without due process and not Ms/Mr Average Wikipedian. Interesting. Carptrash 00:29, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Anybody can recreate a deleted article if they want to. There's no need to take it to Deletions for review. That is only necessary after an AfD if it is wished to keep the same content, which could otherwise be speedy deleted as recreated content. (If it is a speedy that is recreated it can't be deleted as recreated content, but can be deleted under the same original criterion, in this case A7.) So if Carptrash had a record of the content he could have uploaded it and recreated the article. Alternatively he could have asked dab to userfy the deleted content, and then Carptrash could have recreated the article immediately in that way. Dab short-circuited this by simply restoring the article. When admins were given the right to do unilateral speedy deletes, it was given out of necessity because of the increasing deletion workload, but was still given with some reservation. Admins can't regard their speedy deletions as sacrosanct, and must be prepared for them to be challenged, in which case, if necessary, AfD can be invoked in the normal manner. As it says on DRV: "if you are a sysop and an article you deleted is subsequently undeleted, please don't take it as an attack." Tyrenius 00:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

this perfectly summarizes my take on things and my approach here. thanks, dab (ᛏ) 08:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Administrator category

I was wondering whether Administrators are required to identify themselves as such, in any specific way, on their user pages and/or talk pages?

It would make it a lot easier to determine at-a-glance, whether a user is or not, if all admins were required to add themselves to Category:Misplaced Pages administrators (perhaps even as the 1st category in their list). Most admins are included (primarily via the userbox), but many only mention the fact in their written self-descriptions, and a few don't mention it at all and have to be verified against the List of administrators (eg Centrx and Banno, from a random sampling).

Thanks for any thoughts. --Quiddity·(talk) 01:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I think we should do whatever we can to consider everyone an editor, without regard to whatever other access they have. I specifically don't explicitly mention being an admin on my user page because if there's a disagreement, I don't want anyone to think I deserve any special treatment. Friday (talk) 01:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that makes sense. I'd been considering it more in terms of reminding admins that setting a good example is expected of them, or for finding an admin to help with some particular task.

(not to advocate instruction creep... but) perhaps, that it is not required to self-identify, should/could be mentioned somewhere on the Misplaced Pages:Administrators page? Just a thought. Thanks. --Quiddity·(talk) 01:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree with Friday. -- Derek Ross | Talk 01:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

It's not a big deal with me, but I would prefer it if every admin had the grey user box displayed. If someone is an admin, I think people should know. They can be very useful for all sorts of eventualities. I always assumed admins didn't advertise the fact to stay out of the firing line! :) Tyrenius 02:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I think we should make it obvious that there is an official list that is officially maintained. Yanksox 02:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

But the list is imperfect. For example, I am an admin, but you won't find my name on the list. --MichaelZimmer (talk) 02:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Or use this automatically generated list of administrators. Garion96 (talk) 03:00, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

You're not on NoSeptember's list either. How did you manage that? At least you're displaying an admin user box! Tyrenius 03:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

As per Garion96 what's the problem with Special:Listusers/sysop? --pgk 06:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

What specific problem is being solved by having all admins identified? - CHAIRBOY (☎) 02:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem of knowing whether someone is an admin or not, presumably. Tyrenius 02:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

But why is that a problem particularly? I also don't advertise my sysop flag on my user page. Per Friday in the normal of course of things it is irrelevant the validity or otherwise of my arguments/statements is a constant irrespective of that flag. If I'm doing a specific admin action like deleting a page I'd say it was pretty obvious, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to do the deletion. --pgk 06:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it depends on what area the admin works in and wants to work in. If it's processes like AfD, CSD etc, then it's not an issue. I've been contacted by several people to ask for help with specific problems that it needs admin powers to address, so it's essential for me to make it known I'm available for that. Tyrenius 07:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

The original task I was trying to achieve, was looking through a policy page edit history to find someone who was both familiar with the topic, and also an admin, in order to ask something or other.

Also, one can then tell from just a glance (at the userpage, which is what SIGs generally link to,) what level of wiki-familiarity vocabulary one can assume when communicating with another user.

Sorry for causing a rucus ;) --Quiddity·(talk) 07:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I personally don't see the point in forcing an admin to announce themsleves as an admin. Most of them seem to, its their choice to do so. This seems to have been blown out of all proportion - admins are just editors with a few extra tools. If you need to contact one thats what the administrator noticeboard etc is for. Viridae 07:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I think you're the first person that's mentioned admins being forced to announce themselves, actually. Tyrenius 09:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Lets cut the ideological wishmaking. Many new users and IPs will only respect what an admin says, not a regular user. An admin is more important than a regular user. Period. They get more respect. If the admin is comfortable with it, they should have some standard way of indicating that fact so we can ask them for help. Shit, they had to go through an RfA after all. --mboverload@ 07:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

That's some of what I've been doing. An editor is trying to enforce policy like VERIFY and NOR for example and is getting ignored. Of course there's not much they can do about it, especially if they're in a minority. Of course, as an admin, I can, so I want the advantage the role gives me in that situation. If I'm acting as an editor, however, then I see myself on a level playing field. Tyrenius 09:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Let's not encourage that attitude. An admin is not more important. They may be more respected than average, but that's a prerequisite for becoming an admin. It isn't because they are an admin. Regards, Ben Aveling 09:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

"poor quality" v's "poor quality"

I have appealed to mediation because of a continued struggle with "poor quality" links. Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-08-07 The Potter's House

Being a bit of a newbe, what route should I take from here. Potters house 01:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Work through the mediation process first. Tyrenius 07:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Procedural question

The Priory of Balrogs looks speediable to me. However, it also looks like it could go in WP:BJAODN. Is speedying to BJAODN acceptable? JoshuaZ 03:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages noticeboards