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Revision as of 08:14, 23 June 2016

Miss World Sports was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 15 June 2016 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Miss World. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Miss World Top Model was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 15 June 2016 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Miss World. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Miss World Beach Beauty was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 15 June 2016 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Miss World. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Miss World Best in Swimsuit was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 15 June 2016 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Miss World. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Miss World Talent was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 15 June 2016 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Miss World. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

List of Miss World hosts and invited artists was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 1 February 2016 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Miss World. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Miss World article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

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Beauty Pageants C‑class Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Beauty Pageants, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of beauty pageants, their contestants and winners on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Beauty PageantsWikipedia:WikiProject Beauty PageantsTemplate:WikiProject Beauty PageantsBeauty Pageants C This article has been rated as C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Awards C‑class Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Awards, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of awards and prizes on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AwardsWikipedia:WikiProject AwardsTemplate:WikiProject Awardsawards C This article has been rated as C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the importance scale.

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Patriotic Bias

Shouldn't one mention the patriotic bias exhibited by the Miss World and Miss Universe contests?

7 winners have been crowned Miss World on their home turf. In particular, all of the 5 British winners won the title in the UK (where the contest was founded):

• 1961: Rosemarie Frankland (United Kingdom) was crowned in London, UK.
• 1964: Ann Sidney (United Kingdom) was crowned in London, UK.
• 1965: Lesley Langley (United Kingdom) was crowned in London, UK.
• 1974: Helen Morgan (United Kingdom) was crowned in London, UK. (Subsequently resigned)
• 1983: Sarah-Jane Hutt (United Kingdom) was crowned in London, UK.
• 2007: Zhang Zilin (China) was crowned in Sanya, China.
• 2012: Yu Wenxia (China) was crowned in Ordos City, China.

7 winners have been crowned Miss Universe on their home turf. In particular, 6 of the 8 American winners won the title in the US (where the contest was founded):

• 1954: Miriam Stevenson (USA) was crowned in Long Beach, California, USA.
• 1956: Carol Morris (USA) was crowned in Long Beach, California, USA.
• 1960: Linda Bement (USA) was crowned in Miami Beach, Florida, USA.
• 1967: Sylvia Hitchcock (USA) was crowned in Miami Beach, Florida, USA.
• 1997: Brook Mahealani Lee (USA) was crowned in Miami Beach, Florida, USA.
• 2001: Denise Quiñones (Puerto Rico) was crowned in Bayamón, Puerto Rico.
• 2012: Olivia Culpo (USA) was crowned in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA.

Remarkably, all of the 6 Miss World winners and 7 Miss Universe winners from Venezuela won their titles abroad. That is, despite its small population, Venezuela is head and shoulders above everybody else in terms of wins outside their own country. What does this tell us? Miss patriot (talk) 09:24, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

It tells us someone has been doing OR instead of looking for RS that discuss this. Legacypac (talk) 21:31, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

2015 Controversy not covered (yet)

- The New York Times.--Elvey 20:13, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I added this controversy in December. Today I just noticed it disappeared. I am not sure why it was deleted. Will add it back. Marvin 2009 (talk) 02:53, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Merger complete

  Y Merger complete. Information from List of Miss World hosts and invited artists has been merged into this article, per the merge result at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Miss World hosts and invited artists. North America 09:12, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

I know that you are going to accuse me of ad hominum attacks, but you are really giving me the idea that you have a conflict of interest here. The way that you are edit warring to get irrelevant and dodgy sourced info in the article is sad. If the info was notable, it would have kept its own article. You give it a massive undue weight. Merging is not copying the contents from one article to another. The Banner talk 11:37, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

• I really do not care about these articles, in fact the whole beauty pageant idea turns me off, but I also can't just stand by and watch this without at least commenting. I appreciate the effort you have put in doing the merges and finding sources, however it has turned this article from a bad one to a terribly undue one. There is more information on the winners of the preliminary events than the overall winners. The list of hosts and invited articles can and should be summmarised in a few sentences, a paragraph at most, instead it absolutely dominates the article. Merging is a tricky process and requires a good understanding of the appropriate weight, where the information fits and how to present it. It is not simply a case of copying the entire content from one article to another. This is a perfect example of a poorly thought out afd resulting in a merge. Anyhw now that the merge is completed we can enter the normal editing processes and I would suggest that the lists (except for the winners) should be removed due to undue weight. AIRcorn (talk) 17:45, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Disagree, the AFD was clear for a full merge, the article is not over-long, the overall winners have their own list page but perhaps their section should be expanded here for balance. Atlantic306 (talk) 19:50, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Length has nothing to do with undue. AIRcorn (talk) 00:51, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

• Can you explain why a host or a (paid) artist is relevant for the pageant? And why are photo-websites regarded sources conform WP:RS? Especially with photoshop all around... The Banner talk 20:25, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

• think people who want to know about Miss World would be interested in the presenter/ guests especially if they are well known like Bob Hope. Personally am not interested in beauty pageants as they are condescending to women in my view. Atlantic306 (talk) 21:47, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Consensus at the AfD discussion was for a merge. Perhaps the nominator should have considered the potential of a merge outcome before nominating the article for deletion in the first place. The nominator could have participated more at the AfD discussion, but instead, chose to only state four words in the entire two-week discussion. So, the nominator did not realize their desired outcome, and then twice redirects the List of Miss World hosts and invited artists article to this one without performing any merge (diff, diff), against the consensus and editorial decisions of other users at the AfD discussion. This type of unilateral decision making is inappropriate in this case, because consensus was for a merge, not a redirect.

Then, the nominator performed more unilateral actions against the consensus and spirit of the AfD discussion, twice adding the importance section template to this article (diff, diff). If other users agreed with this viewpoint, they likely would have !voted to delete the article, but this did not occur.

Lastly, I'm then accused by the nominator here and in their edit summary here with nonsensical, highly inappropriate aspersions of having some sort of COI, which is absurd, nonexistent, and will be ignored.

Regarding the content itself, I think the list format is functional to organize it, and the content benefits Misplaced Pages's readers with the provision of factual information about the history of the Miss World pageant. I also agree with the points made by Atlantic306 above regarding the content.

This content would work as a separate spinoff and spinout article, and I would be fine with splitting it back out into a separate article titled List of Miss World hosts and artists, so perhaps this notion can be discussed herein. North America 22:55, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

• Split to List of Miss World hosts and artists as a functional spinoff and spinout article. Another option is to retain the content here. North America 23:16, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

• The fact is that it is a repeated sequence of you to restore irrelevant stuff with the most dodgy sources. Just like you did here. The Banner talk 23:26, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

• No, you're quite incorrect. New York Post, Vice, Manila Standard, Gulf News, Tiền Phong, The Telegraph, Belfast Telegraph, etc. are not "dodgy" sources whatsoever. Please stop casting aspersions here and elsewhere. Perhaps you should take some time away from this article and discussion if you're unable to contribute collegially and civilly. North America 23:48, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
• And you skip a photo slideshow and several instances of Getty Images. That are sources not conform WP:RS, so I regard them as dodgy. And often (not this time) you use pageant-websites as Angelopedia, Pageantopolis os Missology to back up your statements with the excuse they source the statement. Perhaps you do not have a COI but they way you work and source certainly gives me that idea. The Banner talk 08:14, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

• think the content is ok here as the article is not very long, the titleholders section needs expanding Atlantic306 (talk) 23:37, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

How about a serious trim of the list and converting it into a paragraph of prose. For example:

There have been many different hosts of Miss World over the years. The creator of the event Eric Morley hosted it himself from 1951 to 1958. Bob hope, Michael Aspel, Simon Dee. Keith Fordyce and David Vine all hosted the event at sometime between 1952 to 1974. Notable hosts after 1974 include Germaine Greer, Pierce Brosnan, Jerry Springer.... . Taiwanese-Canadian actress Angela Chow hosted the pageant from 2003 to 2015. From 1980 invited guest artists would also perform at the event, including ........

Almost all the host images need to go. This article is already overloaded with winners images and the images of the hosts are nowhere near significant enough to include verbatim. You need to be careful of the non-free ones too (not sure why they are here at all) as they need rational as to why we use them and there is virtually no good rational to use non-free images of living people (unless the policies and guidelines have changed since I last dealt with images). As fr the preliminary finals, those lists should at least be collapsed. AIRcorn (talk) 00:51, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

• I prefer splitting the article back out to List of Miss World hosts and artists, rather than limiting valid historical content for Misplaced Pages's readers, which would essentially "dumb down" the content to too great of a degree relative to the coverage it has received in reliable sources. If a consensus were to emerge here to do so, I would be glad to perform this. Regarding images, I removed two non-free ones from the section. The remaining images in the section are properly licensed for use in Misplaced Pages. North America 01:01, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

A split would essentially be going full circle, considering the merge decision at the previous afd. AIRcorn (talk) 01:15, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

That's why a consensus would have to be formed here first. North America 01:17, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

I object against creating more spammy pageants-articles. The Banner talk 08:14, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

• Interestingly, the topic of Miss World production has received significant coverage in multiple, independent reliable sources. The content of this section would fall into the purview of this topic. As such, I also support the creation of Miss World production and moving the content of this section there, perhaps even more so compared to my suggestion above. North America 01:17, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

That seems a bit like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. AIRcorn (talk) 01:24, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

How so? For starters, creation of a new article about a notable topic is a key part of Misplaced Pages. Expanding such an article with wholly-related content is also entirely functional per Misplaced Pages's purposes. North America 01:30, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

I am not concerned about the creation of a new article. My concern is that the transfer of the host and artist content unchanged into that article will simply make that article undue. It won't really solve the core issue as I see it. AIRcorn (talk) 01:57, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Upon consideration, I have removed the images from the table, which significantly shortened it. I think it's coming along now. North America 03:02, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Found this source here but its a bit confusing as for example it doesn't mention Bob Hope in 1959 or 1960Atlantic306 (talk) 03:35, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Considerable coverage is not the same as being relevant. The Banner talk 08:06, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

• Update – I have collapsed the table in the article, which makes the article much more concise in layout. If people want to view the content, all they have to do is select the "show" button. North America 04:02, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

• C-Class Beauty Pageants articles
• Top-importance Beauty Pageants articles
• C-Class awards articles
• Top-importance awards articles
• Awards articles