Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 07:29, 29 July 2016

Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article: You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive) You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. Further information The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are: Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive. Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required. With respect to the WP:1RR restriction: Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring. Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence. After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions. Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard. If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

There is a request, submitted by Allen314159 (talk), for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Misplaced Pages. The rationale behind the request is: "Important Subject in relation to Current Events".

This article was the subject of an educational assignment supported by WikiProject United States Public Policy and the Misplaced Pages Ambassador Program.

Template:Vital article

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Israel Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Project Israel To Do: edit history watch purge Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles. Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page. Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration. Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005 Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel. Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Misplaced Pages. Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data. Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes. Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention. Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Misplaced Pages requested maps in Israel. NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries Photo : Add pictures to articles in Misplaced Pages requested photographs in Israel. Stubs : See Israel stubs. Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People Other : Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Palestine Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Misplaced Pages. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. International relations Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Politics Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Military history: Middle East / Cold War This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status: Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces: /  Middle Eastern military history task force Cold War task force (c. 1945 – c. 1989)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22Auto-archiving period: 2 months

Archives

Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 21, 22

Archive 5 - an essay about "Hate, propaganda and information" Archive 6 (2004 to Sept. 2006) Archive 7 (2006-2007) Archive 10 - contains only discussions relating to the new introduction which was drafted between 23/2/08 and 3/3/08. If you have a problem with the intro and are considering editing it, PLEASE READ THIS ARCHIVE FIRST. Archive 11 - Disputed vs Occupied. This Archive contains copious discussion as well as TWO RFCs! Thus it is imperative that you read this archive FIRST if you wish to add anything as it is highly likely your grievance has already been discussed and dealt with. Archive 12 - Casualty figures discussion. Archive 13 various major discussions from Jan 2008-June 2008.

This page has archives. Sections older than 60 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present.

	Israeli–Palestinian conflict was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result February 19, 2008 Good article nominee Not listed

"Root of conflict" claim in Agriculture section

The Agriculture section currently states the "root of the conflict" is land. Is this absolutely verifiable? Land may be a major or even primary source but to say it's the "root" may be excessive. I think that paragraph should be rephrased. If no one objects here, I will make the change. Tale.Spin (talk) 20:28, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Proposal to fix a long term structural problem in Palestine Israel conflict articles

Please see WT:IPCOLL#RfC: Proposal to fix a long term structural problem in Palestine Israel conflict articles. Oncenawhile (talk) 22:12, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

A plea for a 100 year narrative

Given the importance of the conflict articles to our project I had hoped for more feedback at this RFC, but I think I overcomplicated the description. Some editors may also be thinking "we've been just fine for 10 years so is there really a problem here that needs solving"? I would like to encourage more editors to contribute.

The core issue behind the RFC question is that most readers know very little about the conflict and therefore need one single summary article to read and begin their journey, and we need that single summary article to broadly match the picture that the 1,000s of books summarizing this conflict take. Instead we have sat for many years with three primary articles (IPC since 48, AIC since 48 and ICMP 20-48) which are fine but are missing something above them to thread them together into the 100-year-narrative of the conflict presented by the vast majority of books on the topic.

I recognize that many editors may find the question is a little more dry and boring than many of the debates around here, but its importance to the average Misplaced Pages reader can hardly be overstated.

Oncenawhile (talk) 11:10, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Well I knew few approaches but before that I"ll have to clarify some things that are often forgotten in this subject.

If regarding the Palestinians as the non-Jewish inhabitors of the land before 1881 (first wave of Zionist migration), then the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, or maybe the Jewish-Palestinian conflict or another way to explain it is the "Zionist-Palestinian conflict", is a conflict that started as a conflict between the Zionist Jews and the anti-colonialist Palestinians, mainly Arabs. According to Palestinian Nationalism article, upon the establishment of Tel Aviv in 1909, the conflicts over land grew in the direction of explicit national rivalry

• The conflict might"ve started in 1881 because this year marks the beginings of Zionism in Palestine/Israel, this is used by the Hebrew[REDACTED] after they achieved a consensus but I couldn't find a proper source from the article or the consensus it self (which probably had sources).

• According to the Israel, casualties of the Israeli-Arab conflict are listed since 1860 (Even though the first casualty was in the 1873, named Aharon Hershler who was killed by Arabs in Mishkenot Sha'ananim, the first Jewish neighborhood outside of Jerusalem, built in 1860 Hebrew source), when Jews started building neighborhoods outside of the Walls of Jerusalem. (Yom Hazikaron#Observance).

• The Intercommunal conflict in Mandatory Palestine began with the Franco-Syrian war, after the establishment of the Mandate after the first clash between Jews and Arab since the creation of the mandate in 1920. I personally think this one is the correct one because it is the "Israeli"-Palestinian conflict and the way to 1947 war was with the establishment of the Mandate.

• The obvious one in 1948 with the declration of independance of Israel, serving the "Israeli" part of the name.

• Another apporach I deeply oppose is 1964, with the beginings of the "main phase" with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organization - the organized Palestinian resistance.

The historical option is 1920 and the logical option is 1948.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 12:57, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Another option is 1917 with the Sinai and Palestine Campaign and the Balfour Declaration. I think this is where many begin.

Yet another is 1798 beginning with the French campaign in Egypt and Syria.

I feel very strongly against the 1948 option, i.e. starting from the Israeli Declaration of Independence. That's like starting the American Revolution article in 1776 and ignoring the Boston Tea Party. After all, the 1947 partition plan was put in place with the intention to END the conflict!

Oncenawhile (talk) 13:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

As an aside, note that the reference you linked to below is another example of modern authors using the land-based "Israel-Palestine" term (rather than the people-based Israeli-Palestinian). Oncenawhile (talk) 13:20, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

References

1. Sandra Marlene Sufian and Mark LeVine (2007) Reapproaching borders: new perspectives on the study of Israel-Palestine Rowman & Littlefield,-Remembering Jewish-Arab Contact and Conflict by Michelle Compos ISBN 0-7425-4639-X p 48

Semi-protected edit request on 28 March 2016

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

This Misplaced Pages article states:

"Palestinian leaders insist that the Israeli decision, following attacks from Hamas, to impose a weapons blockade of Gaza, Israel's control of Gaza crossing points into Israel, and Israel's control of air above and sea around Gaza constitutes continued Israeli occupation."

The article provides as a source:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/06/israel.gaza.occupation.question/index.html

The particular points being quoted are stated in the source, not in reference to occupation, but in the words of the one being quoted:

Israel has "besieged Gaza," Ashrawi said Sunday. "They control the territorial waters, the airspace, the land crossing points and they gave themselves overriding security consideration or powers."

A siege is not synonymous with an occupation, neither in a legal sense, nor even in a common language sense. Forces occupy a site subsequent to a siege - a castle under siege is not yet occupied. The Misplaced Pages article should be amended to "constitutes continued Israeli siege", or if we wish only to discuss occupation, most of the line be removed as the reasons given are not sourced in respect to occupation.

Neither is it completely rational - 'Israel's control of Gaza crossing points into Israel' is synonymous with 'America's control of Mexico crossing points into America', which as with any country border, is not indicative of occupation. If it were so, than the article should in all objectivity mention Egypt, as the same reason implies that Egypt is occupying Gaza, as they have 'control of Gaza crossing points into Egypt'. At the very least, that part of the sentence should be removed.

50.153.128.6 (talk) 03:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Take a look at note 21 in the article Gaza Strip.

The sources there are far superior to the CNN source linked above, and provide answers to your questions.

I suggest we bring that note into this article, and widen the above quote to refer to the international community's point of view.

Oncenawhile (talk) 05:50, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

That makes sense. However, while many of the points mentioned in that note (22?) are true, the credibility of the sources is questionable. Obviously dependency by choice or circumstance is not occupation (is the Vatican city occupied by Italy? they have similar dependencies for power, water, and sewage), rather dependency actively imposed by another power is a form of occupation and control. The article Gaza Strip incorrectly attempts to address this: "For its energy, Gaza is largely dependent on Israel either for import of electricity or fuel for its sole power plant. The Oslo Accords set limits for the Palestinian production and importation of energy." This is from a UN report cited there, note 21; however this is actually false. The full text of Oslo accords I and II are readily available online (http://www.jmcc.org/Documentsandmaps.aspx?id=392 and http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/guide/pages/the%20israeli-palestinian%20interim%20agreement.aspx), and contain no such limits or controls. Feel free to check. Sources willing to fabricate lies in defense of their beliefs (or claim to be scholarly, yet not be capable of checking primary sources) should not be deemed credible or reliable. Or, at the very least, as Misplaced Pages attempts to be objective, context should be given, pointing out their unreliability or lack of scholarly research which their title/journal otherwise leads readers to believe.

18.189.1.177 (talk) 16:01, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Your analysis is WP:Original research. That is not allowed on Misplaced Pages. The sources in the note are written by respected scholars. As a Misplaced Pages editor, the fact that you disagree with them is not relevant. We follow the sources.

Ultimately, these sources are simply explaining the view of the international community. The existence of that view. i.e. that the international community still consider Gaza to be occupied, is a fact, just as the sky is blue.

Oncenawhile (talk) 19:20, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. — JJMC89 (T·C) 08:33, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Fatah or any other groups to be added to infobox?

Should any other groups/organisations, such as Fatah (main part of PLO) be included in the infobox, Fatah because they still support the stabbing attacks and incitement against Israel? Should 'Palestinian lone wolves' be added too because they are still attacking currently, or should only actual organisations/groups be included in the infobox? (Just wondered) Thoughts?--PaulPGwiki (talk) 10:08, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Scepticism

• Concerning the image depicting a "Chemical burns on a 15-year-old Palestinian child following Israeli bombings in the village of Khoza'a, Gaza."

How could we be sure that it is not a picture of propaganda? It could be a rare disease for example.

A similar image

Secondly, I don't think that graphic image should be privileged on a sensible topic. It looks more like a competition into the sickening...

• Concerning the image "Bar chart showing Israeli and Palestinian deaths from September 2000 to July 2014"... An indication about what happend during this period of time should be provided : second intifada (2000-5), fightings and conflicts with Gaza.

--Pargidey (talk) 03:45, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

About the first, I can confirm this photo is legitimate because of the symbol of the hospital on the bed. I don't have an opinion about wether it should stay.

About your second concern, I think the article talks about all of those phases in the conflict, so it isn't a problem.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:55, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Removing article's factually incorrect main map

The map is factually incorrect. Gaza (we'll discuss West Bank another time) has not been "Under Israeli occupation since 1967". KamelTebaast 06:59, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

You must set forth your reasons why the map is incorrect. You cannot just state it is so, and then say we when you mean unilateral action undertaken by yourself. Regardless of the merits of the map, removing it because you think contrafactually that Gazas is not occupied is obviously improper.Nishidani (talk) 07:29, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

• Spoken Misplaced Pages requests
• WikiProject United States Public Policy student projects, 2010
• All unassessed articles
• C-Class Israel-related articles
• Top-importance Israel-related articles
• WikiProject Israel articles
• C-Class Palestine-related articles
• Top-importance Palestine-related articles
• WikiProject Palestine articles
• C-Class International relations articles
• Mid-importance International relations articles
• WikiProject International relations articles
• C-Class politics articles
• Mid-importance politics articles
• WikiProject Politics articles
• C-Class military history articles
• C-Class Middle Eastern military history articles
• Middle Eastern military history task force articles
• C-Class Cold War articles
• Cold War task force articles
• Former good article nominees