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== DJ Flash_2 ==

Dear SoWhy,

I have found a source which proves the notability of the author DJ Flash. The book is called Ego Trip's Book of Rap Lists (https://www.amazon.com/Ego-Trips-Book-Rap-Lists/dp/0312242980/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1500200452&sr=1-1&keywords=rap%20lists). Click on look inside, then type in the search DJ Flash (I believe it's on page 33).

Yours,

Hrvoje Grahovac <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 19:56, 17 July 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:{{replyto|Westcoast1978}} As previously explained, notability is established by substantial coverage of a subject. The book mentions him only as one of hundreds of artists and contains no details about him as a person. Again, we don't doubt he exists and that he is a DJ but soooo many people are. Notability is more than mere existence. Regards ''']]''' 20:09, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Dear SoWhy,

DJ Flash here.
I understand your reason for deleting the DJ Flash Page. I also Agree with Duffbeerforme When he said it was "An over the top mess of promotion, original research and dud sources" For that I take full responsibility. And I respect the hard work & dedication all of you put into keeping Misplaced Pages as a reliable source of information. The 10 + years "DJ Flash" was listed in[REDACTED] have allowed me the opportunity to reconnect with so many friends & colleagues that before the advent of the internet & wikipedia, I had no hopes of ever reconnecting. Although i retained my name DJ Flash (i was only a DJ for a few short years 1979-83) before becoming a Record Producer & Label Owner. the Page/Article focused on the Body Of Works I leave behind as a Record Producer. I admit i am not knowledgeable in all the rules of creating an article or Page. But i thank the many contributors & editors who have contributed to the page over the years. I will continue to donate funds to[REDACTED] & will always support your good works. Looking Back I wish the page could have been Saved, Edited and Sourced better.
But i will live with your decision. When I began my career their were only 2 Flash's ..Grand Master Flash on the East Coast & DJ Flash on the West Coast ... Now i notice their are 100's of DJ Flash's from all over the world. If their is any way possible to recreate an edited version of the Page i would be most appreciative for your guidance & instruction & if not ... I will respect your decision ... Kindest Regards .. DJ Flash ']]''' 06:13, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Djflash1957}} As I had explained above, not having a Misplaced Pages entry is not our goal if the subject is notable. However, said notability has to be established first. For that, we need ] that substantially cover the subject (i.e. you). See ] for more details. If you know of such sources (like old newspaper articles, books that contain details of you etc.), please provide them, so we can reassess the situation. Misplaced Pages operates on the principle that no action is irreversible and thus no deletion is either. We just need a good reason to reverse that decision. Regards ''']]''' 13:25, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank You for your quick reply

I will make a wholehearted attempt to provide reliable sources. As i read Misplaced Pages's "Criteria For Musicians and Ensembles" (this category includes bands, singers, rappers, orchestras, DJs, musical theater groups, instrumentalists, etc.) may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria.

#2-Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart.
(If This Category Includes Record Producers Please consider this Link From Billboard Mag. Regarding an Album Concieved, Compiled & Produced by DJ flash) ( https://books.google.com/books?id=YQgEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA112&dq=dr+dre+concrete+roots+billboard&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiLwtGzk6LVAhXJ7IMKHWaSD7cQ6AEIPDAF#v=onepage&q=dr%20dre%20concrete%20roots%20billboard&f=false )

Also here is a Article about the Album in VIBE Mag. ( https://books.google.com/books?id=dywEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=dj+flash+producer+west+coast&source=bl&ots=Veo85MHM1G&sig=l1Mm09BZ4GYZ110ZEaCf_tOOuk8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbwsmIj6LVAhVpwYMKHceqAg44ChDoAQguMAM#v=onepage&q=dj%20flash%20producer%20west%20coast&f=false )

#5-Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable).
If RHINO/Warner Bros. is considered A Major Indie Label. I Have Produced 5 Albums on that Label .please consider these Links ( http://www.rapreviews.com/archive/BTTL_westcoastrap1to3.html )

and ICE T "The Classic Collection" the album concieved, Compiled & Produced by Lee "DJ Flash" Johnson & mentioned in several Books Including Rolling Stone , All Music, etc... ( https://www.amazon.com/Trouser-Press-Guide-90s-Rock/dp/0684814374 )

( https://books.google.com/books?id=t9eocwUfoSoC&pg=PA401&dq=ice+t+the+classic+collection&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwirhZPRm6LVAhWr6IMKHbdBDYUQ6AEILDAB#v=onepage&q=ice%20t%20the%20classic%20collection&f=false )

( https://www.discogs.com/Ice-T-The-Classic-Collection/release/1922020 )

I feel as though these 5 albums may not meet wikipedias standards of Notability. Never the less I submit these Links for consideration. Thank you for your time and effort ,,, Best Regards Lee "DJ Flash" Johnson

']]''' 08:31, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Djflash1957}} Unfortunately, as far as I can see only the VIBE article actually mentions you by name and only in a sentence. Do you have more sources that talk about ''you'' explicitly? A short biography in a book or coverage of your work for example? Regards ''']]''' 06:59, 25 July 2017 (UTC)


:{{replyto|SoWhy}}
I will try to locate some things. It is rare for West Coast Artists to be featured in Books. Basically because Most Hip Hop Books are focused on East Coast Artists. Only recently have a couple Books been written about West Coast Rap Pioneers. Like i mentioned I'm not aware of all the requirements to be listed in Misplaced Pages. It is difficult to understand why a Record Producer with a 30 yr History of 25-40 Albums / Singles featuring some of the Worlds Biggest known Artists, must also rely on other sources (Books) to be considered notable. When In Truth only a handful of people would read the book as compared to the Millions or records embodying the Producers Works are sold all around the world. However difficult, I do respect your guidelines, Do Articles that mention DJ flash's place in Hip Hop History such as this one qualify for consideration ? kindest regards ( https://www.amoeba.com/blog/2013/10/jamoeblog/hip-hop-history-tuesdays-los-angeles-rap-hip-hop-the-first-decade-pt-i-.html ) ''']]''' 03:34, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Djflash1957}} The reason is ]. ''You'' know who you are and what you have done but others, including us, have to rely on what (reliable) third-party sources report on someone. So if we write that you produced 25-40 albums, we have to be able to point our readers to a reliable source that says so. Blog posts such as might be useful because they actually mention you and your work (although only a few blogs are considered reliable sources). I tried to find sources myself but it's quite hard since "DJ Flash" is not an uncommon DJ name (one that apparently ] once used as well, which complicates things). I know it's frustrating but I'm happy you are wishing to work on it and I'll be happy to restore the article if I can find some more sources, I'll even be willing to copyedit and expand it. Speaking of sources, is about you? Regards ''']]''' 11:22, 26 July 2017 (UTC)


:{{replyto|SoWhy}} Thank You for your open mindedness. Yes That Article you Ref Above is about me. I hope you will take all these links into consideration. I have located a couple Other sources that may meet standards & they mention me throught each article. The first is from Rap Reviews.com The second is a review from a Blog that i just stumbled upon a few days ago . Also i will include this link From Rolling Stone Mag. List Of Top 20 West Coast Rap Songs Pre- Straight Outta Compton (Era) My Group "Rappers Rapp Group" is mentioned on Track 16 "Radio Activity Rapp" And finally here is an Article from a Washington DC. USA Paper Thank you again for your consideration, As i recall there is another (1995) Article from an old Los Angeles Hip Hop Mag called "URB" I will try to locate it. Kindest Regards. ''']]''' 04:42, 2 Aug 2017 (UTC)


== RfB? == == RfB? ==
Line 120: Line 67:
::{{replyto|Lourdes}} Thank you for your advice. As I had previously indicated, I had no intention of running again before Dweller asked me and I don't have any intention of running again if this request fails. It's a lose-lose situation anyway - either I change my approach completely, then people will oppose my next attempt for doing so just to succeed in that attempt or I don't and people will oppose that attempt for the same reasons.<br/>While it is of course disheartening to see so many people you respect opposing you, I feel that withdrawing might rob me of gathering the necessary criticism I need to improve my editing and admining in the future. Unfortunately, such requests are the still the best way to get honest feedback on your actions because people rarely call you directly out when you made a mistake. So I will continue to monitor the discussion and answer questions because that is the best way for me to grow as an editor which in turn is beneficial for the project. Even if my ego has to take a beating or two. Regards ''']]''' 07:20, 27 July 2017 (UTC) ::{{replyto|Lourdes}} Thank you for your advice. As I had previously indicated, I had no intention of running again before Dweller asked me and I don't have any intention of running again if this request fails. It's a lose-lose situation anyway - either I change my approach completely, then people will oppose my next attempt for doing so just to succeed in that attempt or I don't and people will oppose that attempt for the same reasons.<br/>While it is of course disheartening to see so many people you respect opposing you, I feel that withdrawing might rob me of gathering the necessary criticism I need to improve my editing and admining in the future. Unfortunately, such requests are the still the best way to get honest feedback on your actions because people rarely call you directly out when you made a mistake. So I will continue to monitor the discussion and answer questions because that is the best way for me to grow as an editor which in turn is beneficial for the project. Even if my ego has to take a beating or two. Regards ''']]''' 07:20, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
:::My wishes always. <small>]</small> 07:46, 27 July 2017 (UTC) :::My wishes always. <small>]</small> 07:46, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

==Tropical Forest==
Many thanks for the removal of AfD here - I can't think why it was proposed. ] (]) 02:16, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
:Probably a misunderstand what AFD is and is not for since the rationale mentions problems with the content that can be fixed by editing. But hey, ]. Regards ''']]''' 09:28, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
::]. Deleting ] via CSD A7 - - looks rather amusing in hindsight. ] ] ] 17:07, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
We shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that because people are notable now, they always were. When ] was deleted in Nov 2006, he would have been 15 years old. The text of the article was:
{{cquote|Ed Sheeran was born in 1991 and lives in Suffolk, UK. He first picked up a guitar in 2002 and soon after wrote his first song, Typical Average. He has written over 30 songs since then.

In March 2005, Ed recorded his first professional CD The Orange Room EP, which features five songs. In April 2005, he played his first solo gig and in June his music was played on the radio for the first time.

Ed has been inspired by great teachers, including the American guitarist Preston Reed, the jazz guitarist Keith Krykant, the singer-songwriter Charity Quin, the opera singer Claire Weston and the singing tutor Richard Charlton.

In October 2005, Ed started recording his debut album at Din Studios in London. The album is now available. It has been produced by Julian Simmons, who has recently worked with the Guillemots. The album features 12 new songs and a bonus track. Various outstanding musicians have helped Ed on the album including Jack Pollitt (drums), Jonny Bridgwood (bass) Fiona Brice (violin), Helen Rathbone (cello) and Martin Hay (synthesiser). The rap artist Alonestar sings on one track and Ed's cousin, the talented young Irish singer-songwriter Laura Sheeran, sings on various tracks. Another of Ed's cousins, Hannah Sheeran, plays the clarinet and sings.

Ed is managed by his parents' company Sheeran Lock Ltd

Ed has made a video for his song Open Your Ears with Bruizer Productions. The set featured the spray-painting work of two of the UK's leading street artists, Graham Dews and Gwen Liby.
The video has been put on Ed's My Space and You Tube as well as the home page of his website.

] - the
]}}
It was a correct A7 deletion IMO. Indeed the current article (created in Jan 11) only has two sentences in the section "Music Career" that pre-date 2008... <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">] ]</strong> 11:50, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
:That said, it does seem sub-optimal that despite the article being tagged twice by different editors and deleted twice by different admins (i.e. 4 experienced editors in total), the obviously well-meaning author was not welcomed nor did they have the reasons for the deletion explained to them on their talkpage... Perhaps unsurprisingly they never edited again :(. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">] ]</strong> 11:56, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

::As I pointed out at my current RfB, one can argue that it was indeed a correct A7 deletion, but then again, how many typical 15 year olds have records produced by a notable TV personality (])? I fully agree with the second part of your comment. Regards ''']]''' 12:07, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

:::I think this has blown out of proportion a bit. I simply found it amusing because of the juxtaposition that somebody who had reasonable grounds to meet the A7 criteria in 2006 is now so well-known, anyone putting {{tlx|db-person}} today might well find themselves being blocked for vandalism. ] ] ] 12:33, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
::::If it's just intended to be an amusing example of how notability changes over time so be it, but I understand that SoWhy is going further and saying that he would not have deleted the article in Nov 2006. I doubt that there are many admins (if any) other than SoWhy who would have declined the tag. The issue that I - and likely others - are struggling with at the moment is the relevance of SoWhy's strong views as to how admins ought to apply the CSD (which are not just held personally, but are a regular feature of his opposition to the RfAs of others) to his current RfB. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">] ]</strong> 12:51, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
:::::The is not the same person we have an article on, so there was no way to write a reliably sourced article or redirect to another one, so A7 was correct. As far as I can tell, SoWhy said he'd bounce it to AfD, probably because he got his Julian Simmonses mixed up on a Google search, which isn't really the same thing as refusing to delete it. (He'd be wrong and the AfD would almost certainly be closed as SNOW delete, and today would be deleted per BLPPROD regardless, but it's easy to see these things in hindsight). ] ] ] 13:01, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
::::::Ah, I apologize for the confusion. Yes, I would probably have deleted it as well if I had known that (and I hadn't found any other sources). Ritchie is correct though, I certainly found the previous versions of the article deletable. I merely opined that they might not be speedy deletable based on that indicator for significance (which I now know is incorrect). Regards ''']]''' 13:09, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

== can I see a deleted page? ==

I see that you deleted a page called "Get Croissant"
https://en.wikipedia.org/Get_Croissant

I am curious if there is any way I can see the original text of this page?

The Google serach returned the first sentence if that helps...
"Get Croissant or (Croissant Coworking) is an American online marketplace software technology coworking company that provides on demand access to shared ... "

Thanks!
] (]) 20:28, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
:{{tps}} {{re|Axcelis555}} Only administrators can view deleted pages as a result of ] failing ]. If you wish to try again, use the ]. ] ] 20:37, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
::{{tps}} {{re|Axcelis555}} Could you explain why you'd like to see the text? ~ ]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">]</sup> 20:26, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

== Edit Conflict just as the AfD was closed ==
SoWhy, I am wondering what the process is supposed to be here. I was just about to comment on the AfD for ], and while I was searching for sources I edit-conflicted with you closing the AfD as delete. Given my comment below that I intended to post, would you have considered relisting instead? Sorry, I've never had this happen before. — '''''<small>]]]</small>''''' 08:15, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

*'''Weak Keep'''. I'm seeing plenty of mentions in the news and reporters often refer to him as "well known" or some such, and he directed Pakistan's second highest grossing film of 2013 ]. None of this solidly says "Keep", but it makes me wonder that there '''''must''''' be sources that cover this guy in Urdu or Punjabi. I'm reluctant to endorse a delete until somebody searches sources in these languages. — '''''<small>]]]</small>''''' 08:15, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

:{{replyto|Insertcleverphrasehere}} Usually, if someone presented new arguments but was edit-conflicted, I would reopen the AfD and relist, however, I am not sure others will consider "there must be sources" as a valid enough argument. If you want, I'll reverse my close and the associated actions, no problem, but maybe you could ask someone who is a native speaker to check whether those sources actually exist before I do that? That might save us some work. Regards ''']]''' 11:08, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
::Thats Ok. I wanted you to be aware of it, and was also curious as to what the procedure was in cases like this. To clarify, Urdu and Punjabi do not use Latin characters, so any sources that exist on the subject in those languages won't be found google searching for the director's name in latin characters. I've tried searching myself using what I think is the Urdu of the director's name (سید علی رضا اسامہ), but haven't had much success using google translate. I think I'll just let this lie for now, and try to track down somebody at some point. — '''''<small>]]]</small>''''' 12:29, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
:::I think you are gonna have to bring the article back. See ]. ] really outdid himself. I'd suggest reopening the AfD, then I'll comment and invite ] to do so as well. — '''''<small>]]]</small>''''' 18:09, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

::::Happy to. {{done}}. It might not be the correct way to do it but taking it to DRV just to restart the discussion seemed unnecessary. Regards ''']]''' 19:05, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
:::::I guess you are not as much of a stickler for inflexible rules as some people are claiming over at RfB. Cheers mate. — '''''<small>]]]</small>''''' 20:10, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

::::::Heh {{=)}} Well, I'm all for skipping process when the outcome is already clear from the beginning. That's just not the case as often as some people think it is. Anyway, have a nice evening (or something, not sure where you are from) and feel free to come here again if you need anything else {{=)}} Regards ''']]''' 20:32, 26 July 2017 (UTC)


== ] == == ] ==

Revision as of 05:02, 3 August 2017

about // talk // contributions // barnstars // essays // drafts

SOWHY's talk page about // talk // contributions // barnstars // essays // drafts
This user talk page might be watched by friendly talk page stalkers, which means that someone other than me might reply to your query. Their input is welcome and their help with messages that I cannot reply to quickly is appreciated.
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Messages on this talk page are archived after 1 week. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33 // Index




RfB?

How do you feel about Misplaced Pages:Requests for bureaucratship/SoWhy 2? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:22, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Is this really the right climate now? Seriously though, I'd give the same answer I gave you in April: you know me: I'm happy to serve the community in any way I can and if you are willing to risk your good name nominating me, I'm willing to offer my services. Regards SoWhy 13:31, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I'd seriously consider it. You often stand out for being calm and sensible. And if I've asked you the same thing twice (senility is fast approaching), I must have been on the right track twice. So here are some questions to suss this out:

  1. Been in any horrid disputes recently? (As a disputant)
  2. Can you point me to some recent involvement in consensus assessing, like a couple of tricky AfDs you've closed or similar?
  3. Do you think you're boring enough to be a Crat?

--Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:34, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Let's see:
  1. I don't think so. I have been pinged a couple of times (most recently because of some interaction with Light2021 (see also above) at WP:ANI#Please_review_Light2021.27s_behaviour_at_AfD) but usually I tend to stay away from such discussions. I have been named as an involved editor at WP:ARCA earlier that year because of a protection decision I made, does that count? (permalink from before it was removed)
  2. Phew...I handled literally hundreds of AfDs in the last few weeks because I noticed the backlog there. Maybe . Check also the comments in the above sections and in my talk archives for the last month.
  3. Well, I am taking a five minute break from looking at some 100+ page bank statements to answer you, so you tell me. Also, people keep on telling me that I am a stickler for rules like it's somehow a bad thing. As a child, my parents tell me, I didn't want to play any games before first reading the instructions very carefully
Regards SoWhy 15:05, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

That's reassuring stuff. Anyone you got in mind you'd like to co-nom (or maybe nom instead of me?)? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:14, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Certainly no one instead of you. As for co-nom, my mind's drawing a blank, but any interested talk page stalkers can of course offer to risk their reputation alongside you If you know someone who you think might want to, feel free to ask them as well. As I said before, there is certainly no hurry. Regards SoWhy 15:33, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
I'll leave this here for a day or so and then dive in. If I wait too long, I'll find myself posting at this page in October asking if you'd consider running at RfB. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:36, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
Don't they say "third time's a charm"? No worries, whenever you are ready, I'll be here. And who knows, maybe someone will be brave enough to co-nom by then. Regards SoWhy 07:16, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

The link at the top of this section has gone blue. Your turn to start answering questions and then transclude. Feel free to take your time, there's no rush. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:12, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

@Dweller: Thank you so very much for your kind words. I have added my answers but if you don't mind, I'd like to sleep on it another night and transclude it tomorrow (if I am still crazy enough to face "teh dramaz" tomorrow as I am today ). Regards SoWhy 18:33, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

The personal life issues I allude to on my user talk may be about to explode. When they do, I'll be offwiki for a week. Would it be OK with you to pause? Sorry to be annoying, but this is serious stuff and I can't do a thing about it. I wouldn't want to abandon a nominee through the course of things. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 19:36, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

@Dweller: As I have previously mentioned, I'm in no hurry. Real life always comes first. Take all the time you need to address them and good luck with that. Whenever you come back and feel like it, just leave me a message and we can resume where we left off. Feel free to delete the RfB page if you don't feel like having people see it until you are back. Regards SoWhy 19:55, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

I came here for something else (see below), but does anybody mind if I throw a co-nomination on the pile? Or do people think I have done enough RfX nominations already this year and should just pipe down for the duration? In particular, I was thinking of pulling together some facts and figures for how many RfAs you've been involved with, how many candidates you've put forward, and how many of those RfAs have had your vote match consensus. I would offer to sort out the transclusion too, but I still feel rather guilty about GAB's RfA going full steam ahead without Dweller getting so much a chance to write a co-nomination statement, so it would be completely unfair to do that again. Ritchie333 16:29, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

There is no secret rule I know of that only crats should nominate people at RfB, so I don't mind; in fact, I'd be happy. Might want to ask Dweller if he does object though (when he returns). As for transcluding, I think I can handle that myself. Regards SoWhy 18:00, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
What I specifically want to say is although we've sometimes disagreed on how to apply some policies (*cough* Micaela Schäfer *cough*), I've always gone away thinking "well although I don't quite agree, SoWhy's been polite and courteous about it, and they've got a point". That's worth ramming home. Ritchie333 19:29, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
I think that sentence alone is a high-praise nomination statement Regards SoWhy 19:32, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
I dropped something in. If the worst comes to worse, we can revert and I'll just put some of it in as a !vote Ritchie333 16:06, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
Looks good to me, thanks for the kind words. Just a little note: It's fine to refer to me as "he". While I love the concept of singular they, I don't think it is fitting to use when the gender of the person you are talking about is known ;-) Regards SoWhy 18:25, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Tentatively back. No objections to any co-nom you approve of, SoWhy. Want to go live? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:04, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Eagerly waiting to support. Anarchyte (work | talk) 12:19, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Welcome back, Dweller. I hope everything is well. If you feel like you can now be sure that you won't have to "abandon" me, I'm ready to go Regards SoWhy 12:23, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

My situation is fluid and at some point, I will disappear for a week or more, but it's unpredictable when that will happen and life needs to go on. Let's do it. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:26, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done . Let's hope the community is not too harsh on me Regards SoWhy 12:33, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Well you've got at least 3 supports, so how bad can it be? Nah, but in all seriousness, good luck :). Anarchyte (work | talk) 12:35, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
  • Hello SoWhy, hope you're well. I don't wish this to sound condescending in any way (so please don't mind these words). I have struck my oppose, but feel it would be better if you withdraw your Rfb now. The growing group of editors pointing out to your literal application of policy is significant and I feel your withdrawing now would provide a positive basis for a future Rfb. I remain a keen learner from your work. Warmly. Lourdes 03:58, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
@Lourdes: Thank you for your advice. As I had previously indicated, I had no intention of running again before Dweller asked me and I don't have any intention of running again if this request fails. It's a lose-lose situation anyway - either I change my approach completely, then people will oppose my next attempt for doing so just to succeed in that attempt or I don't and people will oppose that attempt for the same reasons.
While it is of course disheartening to see so many people you respect opposing you, I feel that withdrawing might rob me of gathering the necessary criticism I need to improve my editing and admining in the future. Unfortunately, such requests are the still the best way to get honest feedback on your actions because people rarely call you directly out when you made a mistake. So I will continue to monitor the discussion and answer questions because that is the best way for me to grow as an editor which in turn is beneficial for the project. Even if my ego has to take a beating or two. Regards SoWhy 07:20, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
My wishes always. Lourdes 07:46, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Austin Found

Hello,

I noticed you deleted the article mentioned above due to its lack of notability. That being said, I have worked on a draft of this article on my sandbox and have provided sources with it. May I have your permission to please recreate the article? Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 01:19, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

@Hitcher vs. Candyman  Done. I moved the article to the article space for you. — InsertCleverPhraseHere 05:39, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the support!

A belated note of thanks for the very kind suggestion you made at my talk page earlier this week. I've been traveling for work this week (you and I are in the same profession, it appears) and your message was the only thing that salvaged an exhausting, discouraging trip! You prompted me to give the idea serious consideration, and after a close review of relevant guidelines, I think it's a little too early for me. These are the two areas where I see myself falling short: (a) I have no content creation to speak of; my efforts here have been almost entirely in the realm of copyediting gnomery and anti-vandalism (with a bit of anti-copyvio work thrown in); and (b) I am far too lacking in knowledge of the necessary technical (i.e. coding-type) fine points. But, now I know all this! And perhaps we can revisit this idea in about six months.

Again, Herzlichen Dank; your opinion counts for a lot with me and I'm grateful that you took the time to share it. Take care! - Julietdeltalima (talk) 20:52, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

@Julietdeltalima: Sorry to hear that. As for your points, while content-creation has become a trendy reason for opposing candidates in recent years, I don't think the community has arrived at a point were that alone is sufficient to deny a candidate adminship (cf. Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/K6ka in recent times), as long as content awareness has been demonstrated. That said, if you want to change that, there is a good way to combine gnomery with content creation which is rescuing appropriate articles from deletion and improving them sufficiently to get them through WP:DYK which allows even those of us less skilled in writing prose to have articles appear on the Main Page. This approach serves the project in multiple ways: It prevents the removal of inclusion-worthy subjects and it allows you to demonstrate that you do have content skills. I started doing so only after my RfA passed but it is really a good way to contribute (seven of my 34 DYK credits were rescued from speedy deletion). As for the other part, I wouldn't worry about it. You know how to edit which is enough and there are a lot of scripts that automate many admin tasks anyway. Even I keep learning new things after 13 years (for example I only recently learned that ] and ] produce the same output). As long as you keep on being willing to learn new things and are careful (using the preview button before using syntax you never used before for example), you will do fine.
That said, you are most welcome. If and when you feel ready to test the waters, I'd be happy to help in any way I can. Regards SoWhy 15:48, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Candidacy

I just wanted to say, regardless of how the RfB goes, I think you could be an asset to the community as an ArbCom member or trustee, so I hope you run. A campaign for one of those roles, even if unsuccessful, could help draw attention to some excellent essays you have written. 172.56.2.106 (talk) 00:22, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep it in mind, although I don't think I'm suited for one of those rules (and I don't think I have enough spare time either). Regards SoWhy 15:50, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
If you run a single issue informational campaign devoted to raising awareness of how to properly use the CSD, though, then you can probably teach the electorate about an important topic without needing to actually serve. We haven't really had any offbeat candidates since Isarra ran in 2013-2014 so elections have gotten kinda boring. Anyway, thanks for your hard work and insights. 172.56.2.106 (talk) 17:10, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I think your stance of narrowly-interpreting policies and guidelines makes far more sense than doing as some suggested, relying on common-sense and using IAR. The latter practices lead to chaos as everyone is doing whatever they think is right without a real basis in our collective beliefs. The former practices well-represent what we as editors have agreed upon. While I disagree with your NOBIGDEAL stance, I think Misplaced Pages as a project benefits from your continued involvement at the highest levels. Surely the WMF is going to fire one of our community-elected board members and a slot will open up. I know of at least one Wikipedian on ARBCOM who might not get re-elected. Chris Troutman (talk) 12:49, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

RfB thought

I know you are taking a bit of a pounding at the moment, but I hope you will not withdraw. Seeing your calm and professional demeanor throughout the RfB so far and your willingness to answer questions at length has reassured me that I made the right decision in supporting your candidacy regardless of how it turns out. I am disappointed that you have encountered so much opposition, but that's life, I suppose. Your work is valued here regardless. 28bytes (talk) 03:55, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

@28bytes: Thanks for the kind words and the continued confidence in my work. Considering that it would require several key opposers to switch to support or a large influx of unopposed support votes just to get the request back into the discretionary range (and I don't see that happening), I am under no illusion about the outcome. That said, it serves as a useful way to get feedback on my actions and since I don't see any reason to rob myself of that, I won't withdraw. Regards SoWhyMobile 07:01, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

A7 expansion discussion

Hi SoWhy,

It's pretty clear that my proposal to expand A7 is failing miserably and with your in-depth analysis of the examples I gave to Ritchie333 I have concluded that it's time to withdraw it. Your precise application of policy at the discussion has swayed me from neutral to support in your RfB by the way!

Thanks,

DrStrauss talk 22:19, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

@DrStrauss: I know it's hard to see a proposal fail, so you have my sympathies. Thanks for being so graceful about it. Maybe we can think of a way to stop people from nominating such articles in the first place? A warning message in Twinkle's XFD module comes to mind as a potential solution. I truly think that some people simply forget about those alternatives and that reminding them might be helpful. Regards SoWhy 07:59, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Resilient Barnstar
For the most graceful RfX candidacy I have ever seen, you deserve this. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:11, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
@TonyBallioni: Thank you very much. I'm happy to receive some WikiLove (been a while) although being graceful when faced with criticism should be a matter of course. And in the end, it was merely me offering to help out some more because some people asked me to, not some life-changing extremely important role that I really had to have, so while I might be disappointed by the level of opposition, I am also happy about the many voices of support and am truly convinced that it's not a big deal to fail such a request. Regards SoWhy 08:18, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Your RfB

Hello SoWhy, your RfB has closed without a consensus to promote being reached. Thank you for actively participating, many editors praised your ability as administrator and I hope you continue to support the project in that role. Best regards, — xaosflux 12:51, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification and handling it. As I am not completely delusional, it was clear that this was coming. Still, a gathered some valuable feedback, so not all was in vain. Regards SoWhy 12:57, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the plunge SoWhy, I thought you handled it extremely well. –xeno 14:51, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the compliment. Hey, at least I got a barnstar out of it Regards SoWhy 15:13, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
Here's something for the effort...
May you keep rocking and smiling!
A socialist red rose? How thoughtful Here's to hoping that at least my (imho perfectly normal) behavior can serve as an example to others, shall we? Regards SoWhy 17:15, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
I would also like to compliment you on your handling of your RfB. I think you did a great job responding and answering the questions fairly and honestly and you handled the entire thing very well. -- Dane 22:38, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. Coming from someone who opposed the request, this means a lot to me, because it demonstrates that while we may agree on some things, we can all stay civil about it and harbor no ill feelings. Regards SoWhy 07:15, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – August 2017

News and updates for administrators from the past month (July 2017).

Administrator changes

added AnarchyteGeneralizationsAreBadCullen328
removed CpromptRockpocketRambo's RevengeAnimumTexasAndroidChuck SMITHMikeLynchCrazytalesAd Orientem

Guideline and policy news

Technical news


Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:11, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

*grumbles*

That was a real shame. For a time it looked as though we'd be welcoming you as the newest bureaucrat, which would have been awesome; I grew increasingly disappointed as your RfB crept towards yellow and then into the red. At least we'll still have your service to Misplaced Pages and I'm pleased to see that you've not decided to pack it in - I'm glad. :) I'm delighted I had the chance to support you, SoWhy - delighted indeed. Acalamari 01:20, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

I know how you feel, although you probably should direct your grumbling towards your colleagues who "sank" the request with their !votes Joking aside, thanks for the kind words, they are really boosting my spirit. Regards SoWhy 07:17, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Your RfB

I'm so sorry it was unsuccessful. I think you were an excellent candidate. Maybe if I'd have challenged (ironically) some of the comments from supporters early on, it might have been different. Unusually, you were criticised both for being overly strict and overly lax in your interpretation of consensus. I'd encourage you to reflect on the opposes and continue your excellent work, and, if you're not too bruised, come back and try again some day. I'm sorry if I fell down as your nominator... RfX can be a tough place and if it's any consolation, you handled yourself with great dignity in my opinion. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 07:47, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

@Dweller: Don't worry about it too much. You were a great nominator and your help and guidance were invaluable. Yes, it failed, but you couldn't have prevented a number of editors, prominently some of your colleagues, perceiving me as biased or inflexible when it comes to handling crat tasks; that's something I have to try and change myself. I doubt I will try that again (this time I had more opposes and less support than the first time around) but that's okay. As I said to you in the very beginning, back in April, it was merely me offering my services to the community. They are allowed to reject it and I am not too upset about it. Regards SoWhy 09:09, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Regarding Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion

Hello SoWhy,

Thank you for your assistance with closing discussions at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion; there certainly is a backlog over there that needs some attention, and I'm trying to find some to close as a "non-admin". Anyways, you may or may not know this, but if you cold, when you close or relist the final discussion on a day/subpage, could you please also remove the subpage's tranclusion on Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion (as I did here)? Thanks! Steel1943 (talk) 22:42, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Side note: Though I opposed your RfB and I think we've "butted heads" at some point in the past, as Acalamari stated, I'm glad you didn't leave after your failed RfB. I can tell you're a net positive for Misplaced Pages, and for what it's worth, if you decide to stick around as an active admin, welcome back. Misplaced Pages is a very difficult habit to quit, and I say this out of personal experience. Steel1943 (talk) 22:46, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads-up. RfD is usually not my area of expertise, I was just reacting to some requests at WP:ANRFC. I'll try to remember it if I can't get Evad37 to add that functionality to XFDCloser. Thanks for the side note btw, I do appreciate it. Regards SoWhy 06:50, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

No edit conflict?

Not an accusation, but re. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Mujahida Hussain Bibi , but it's curious how long the software takes to catch up on itself...? — fortunavelut luna 14:26, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

@Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi: I think the problem is that Evad37 has not yet added collision detection to WP:XFDC, cf. User_talk:Evad37/XFDcloser.js#Don.27t_close_already_closed_AFDs, so although I refresh often, sometimes someone else closes the discussion between me opening and finishing reading it. No big deal, I just reverted the close. Btw, since you are still using Mr.Z-man's script as part of User:Czar/closexfd.js, you might want to upgrade to XFDC as well, which is all-in-one and offers cool extra-features. Regards SoWhy 14:36, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
So it does- thanks very much. — fortunavelut luna 14:48, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Using semi-automated tools for link removal

Unsure if this is built into XfDCloser or if XfDCloser uses Twinkle (haven't yet played with the former), but regarding this sort of delinking, please try not to simply delink all instances without checking to see if it would instead be more productive to simply remove mention. Delinking an item in a list that requires entries to have Misplaced Pages articles just makes it harder to find problematic entries in those lists. When still linked, it's possible for me to use "what links here" to see where it may need to be removed. In this case, list of hip hop artists is on my watchlist and I saw the delink so could just finish the task, but if that artist were delinked from other lists, I'd have to now either search for "SD" (not a very productive search) or hunt through your contribs. Changing from red to blacktext also makes it harder to visually spot inappropriate entries in a list. In short -- and I realize this is more of a problem that I have with Twinkle, etc. than with its users (although everyone is responsible to make sure a semi-automated edit is an improvement before saving) -- I really think it's better not to delink deleted articles in lists (as opposed to in prose), since in the vast majority of cases it's more appropriate to remove and delinking makes that harder. Thanks for reading to the end of my rant :) — Rhododendrites \\ 16:10, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

@Rhododendrites: Actually, XFDCloser should be able to remove items instead of delinking (see User talk:Evad37/XFDcloser.js/Archive 2#Unlinking DABs and See Also sections). Not sure why it didn't work this time, possibly because it didn't recognize this as a list. Thanks for the notification, I'll raise it with Evad37, see if he can address this for future AFDs. Regards SoWhy 16:47, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
A couple years ago I think that I opened a thread about delinking with regard to Twinkle, but, as I recall, nobody responded. I see XFDCloser being used for delinking more than Twinkle these days, I think, so thanks for following up with Evad37. — Rhododendrites \\ 18:24, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
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