Article snapshot taken from[REDACTED] with creative commons attribution-sharealike license.
Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat.
We can research this topic together.
***@] I just got power and internet back on after a week sorry for the delay. No the page history prior to my edits is missing. the page history still has the same issue and the page is missing the complete deletion and restoration history as well. It still needs to be resolved. ] (]) 18:39, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
Revision as of 18:39, 19 September 2017
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Operation Red Hat article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Micronesia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Micronesia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MicronesiaWikipedia:WikiProject MicronesiaTemplate:WikiProject MicronesiaMicronesia
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Japan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Japan-related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project, participate in relevant discussions, and see lists of open tasks. Current time in Japan: 09:50, January 22, 2025 (JST, Reiwa 7) (Refresh)JapanWikipedia:WikiProject JapanTemplate:WikiProject JapanJapan-related
This article is missing the complete page history and appears to contains text attributed to me which I did not submit. The specific text (regarding Night Moves of Chemicals) was falsely used as justification for a previous AfD. It was userfied at User:JohnVR4/Operation Red Hat and the complete Page history was deleted recently by Buckshot06. The userfying editor Buckshot06 reinserted that same text among other issues into this mainspace article and it needs to be corrected. Preserving the pages history is one of our five pillars WP:5P5where every past version of a page is saved.
Johnvr4 (talk) 17:26, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
POV concern
I feel this article fails WP:NPOV because it does not explore the majority and minority viewpoints in each cited source. I feel this article has profound POV issues because it in too condensed, hopelessly incomplete. It is basically a summary of a more complete article that that Buckshot recently nominated for deltion by presenting untruths in those discussions. In addition near copy of this article (Nearly the entire contents of which is only a summary article anyway) already exists at Japan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#U.S._chemical_weapons_and_Japan.
Johnvr4 (talk) 17:26, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
Operation Red Hat is missing the complete edit history and contains text attributed to me with I did not submit. That specific text regarding night moves of chemicals was falsely used as Justification for a previous AfD (and MfD and DRV). The complete WP:PAGEHIST was userfied at User:JohnVR4/Operation Red Hat. The userfying editor reinserted that text into the main space and It need to be corrected. WP:5P5 Preserving the pages history is one of our five pillars where "every past version of a page is saved". Thank you, Johnvr4 (talk) 17:55, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
The closing admin for this request should probably quickly look at Misplaced Pages:Deletion_review/Log/2017_August_30, and the original AfD of June 2013, Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Operation Red Hat. The material involved is a lengthy treatment of a variety of very unrelated issues to the acknowledged core of the subject, a chemical/biological weapons transfer from Okinawa to Johnson Atoll in the 1970s. The weapons had been intended for war use against North Korea, it seems. The community consensus, as shown at the June 2013 mainspace deletion request, the MfD this month, and the DRV, is to delete, but Johnvr4 is very emotionally attached to having this material visible in some form on Misplaced Pages and wishes it to be resurrected. Buckshot06(talk)20:00, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
@Anthony Appleyard:, it was User:Buckshot06. It was same administrator who previously locked that page so only he could edit it, resurrected a POV copy with the same problems that originally got it AfDed, and recently nominated all existing versions, including the PageHists and drafts that I had redeveloped for MfD by asserting a plethora of utter misrepresentations. Johnvr4 (talk) 19:58, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
@Johnvr4 and Buckshot06: Operation Red Hat (visible edits) was 957 bytes at 01:45, 23 April 2006, gradually growing to 9296 bytes now. Operation Red Hat (deleted edits) See for Operation Red Hat's delete/undelete/protection history, including 3 actions by Buckshot06. See deletion discussion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Operation Red Hat. See deletion discussion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Operation Red Hat. None of the edit comments of its edits (deleted or undeleted) seem to mention page-moving. If the deleted edits were undeleted, they would all fit between the consecutive visible edits 01:09, 24 May 2012 and 13:39, 28 December 2016. Do you want me to undelete those deleted edits to reassemble its edit history? As Buckshot06 seems to be involved, please, I do NOT want to be involved in a WP:Wheel war. If there is need to re-discuss this matter here, please be concise. If this dispute centers on which matter to include and which matter to exclude :: several times I have run into intractable disputes between inclusionists and exclusionists; often, one man's trivia or cruft is another man's important relevant matter.
In "text attributed to me with I did not submit" written by Johnvr4 hereinabove, the page's history list will show who inserted what. Or what is supposed to have happened? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:48, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
I'm involved here and arguing my side of the story. I cannot take any admin actions. I do not want you to undelete all the deleted edits, because that would breech the consensus arrived at at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Operation Red Hat. I would kindly request you, Anthony, to refuse the request for undeletion, as it goes against the AfD and MfD, as well as the DRV. Buckshot06(talk)22:48, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
Just to clarify another of Buckshots06's misrepresentations quote:"of a variety of very unrelated issues to the acknowledged core of the subject, a chemical/biological weapons transfer from Okinawa to Johnson Atoll in the 1970s". He knows Red Hat was more than a ship ride off Okinawa in 1971. His own POV version that HE Resurrected admits that. There were were two drafts in my userspace. Legacy of... in JohnVR4/Operation Red Hat (with the old history) covers US WMD in Japan rather than unrelated issues. The other draft being edited was JohnVR4/Sandbox which would have been finished and moved to Johnvr4/Operation Red hat before merging. Or at least that was the plan. Instead Buckshot nominated every bit of it for deletion ever after I told him the PAGEhist was there. He has another motive however and numerous discussions are taking place where he and another editor User:Moe Epsilon,Absolutely do not want the fact that I did not write a particular passage exposed. They accused me of "Cooking up in my spare time" up that passage and it has been the foundation of their arguments for over four years to date. Johnvr4 (talk) 04:43, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
It's funny because I haven't interacted with you for four years and was begrudgingly brought back into this because you pinged me a couple days ago. I honestly don't give a crap what is restored, but after an AFD, an MFD and a DRV, you'd think you'd stop going around asking people to undelete this material for you and just re-write it already. Do you actually have anything to contribute to the article on Operation Red Hat? Minus deleted content, the last time you added real content to it, it was 2012 according to the edit history. How many years are you going to plan the content and not release it to the main namespace? I ask because if you never plan to, then it's no difference whether it is deleted or not. Regards, — MoeEpsilon05:24, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
It's not funny at all. Since you asked (snarkily) and are only here, "simply because you honestly don't give a crap" Please allow me to clarify that you and especially Buckshot06 bought your bunk assertions (same issues that got it deleted 4 yrs ago) back to life. It came to a head this week and your name came up as a result. Editors need proof of who of who is making the bogus assertions however buckshot06 deleted the Pagehist and all proof. After my repeated explanation that I did rewrite the draft completely in the last few months; There's a truckload of new sources; you again just in the last few days (much like four years ago), still have no idea what you were talking about- which will be available to prove for you. Again. You should never had made that false attack back then in AfD, or come back to make it again. this is not revenge. I can't help but set the record straight and show that your assertions were unfair and that the fabrication of concern that you made has persisted for far too long. Four years later and both you and the other editor keep pointing to it. You should never have based the foundation of your arguments on a concern about me that you seem to have apparently cooked up. Your entirely Bogus offensive personal attack of me cooking up night moves of chemicals in my spare time as one main reason for deletion at AfD is the fact that has been asserted. The concern about night moves was valid (I told you it was a good find and it would need to be fixed) but you assumed bad faith and you very publicly blamed it on me. That continued assumption and your accusations over four years is likely the only reason why you are here. Johnvr4 (talk) 07:00, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
@Buckshot06, Johnvr4, and Moe Epsilon: (I am in England and I had never heard of Operation Red Hat until I read this article.) The last deleted edit at User:Johnvr4/Operation Red Hat seems to be all or largely about chemical-warfare-materials-related events on Okinawa, even if not directly about Operation Red Hat. Similarly with the last deleted edit at Operation Red Hat. About the description of each event described in these two sets of deleted matter, these queries arise, for each event individually:-
Presence of a reference, and reliability of that reference. (Unreliable matter may have to be edited out.)
Relevance to Operation Red Hat. If it is reliable but not related to Operation Red Hat, it might be useful in a more general article about chemical weapons.
In the previous message, the text "... offensive personal attack of me cooking up ..." :: please specify individually the described chemical-warfare-materials-related events whose descriptions are in your opinion to be queried, and why in your opinion the description is queryable. It is better to specify details than to argue about generalities.
@Anthony Appleyard I just got power and internet back on after a week sorry for the delay. No the page history prior to my edits is missing. the page history still has the same issue and the page is missing the complete deletion and restoration history as well. It still needs to be resolved. Johnvr4 (talk) 18:39, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
Referencing and citation: criterion met
