Misplaced Pages

Talk:Violence against women during the Partition of India: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from[REDACTED] with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editNext edit →Content deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 16:59, 20 December 2017 editJosephusOfJerusalem (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users905 editsm →Lead← Previous edit Revision as of 02:15, 21 December 2017 edit undoKautilya3 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers86,893 edits →Lead: ReplyNext edit →
Line 30: Line 30:


:::::::Previous revisions of a Misplaced Pages page are not a proof for anything. Verifiability alone does not guarantee inclusion. We are not an indiscriminate collection of information, see ]. Show a tertiary source which says Muslims started the violence, for it to be worthy of being in the lead. Note Fowler&fowler's ] on the importance of tertiary sources for the lead. Also source does not say Muslims started the violence. It just says violence started in Rawalpindi district. Nothing more. ] prohibits us from deducing anything further unless explicitly stated in the source like "Muslims started the violence in Rawalpindi". Even if true, it does not call for copying two whole paragraphs of the body into the lead which is meant to summarise the entire article. ] (]) 16:46, 20 December 2017 (UTC) :::::::Previous revisions of a Misplaced Pages page are not a proof for anything. Verifiability alone does not guarantee inclusion. We are not an indiscriminate collection of information, see ]. Show a tertiary source which says Muslims started the violence, for it to be worthy of being in the lead. Note Fowler&fowler's ] on the importance of tertiary sources for the lead. Also source does not say Muslims started the violence. It just says violence started in Rawalpindi district. Nothing more. ] prohibits us from deducing anything further unless explicitly stated in the source like "Muslims started the violence in Rawalpindi". Even if true, it does not call for copying two whole paragraphs of the body into the lead which is meant to summarise the entire article. ] (]) 16:46, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::::: Well, you said it is not a contest, which is a noble thought. But a contest is precisely what you are making it. So, either keep both or keep neither. -- ] (]) 02:15, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
:Being in the business of the academic world myself and recognising the value of each source for what its worth I will comment that this sentence "It has been estimated that twice as many Muslim women were abducted compared to Hindu and Sikh women, due to the actions of organised Sikh jathas." is sourced to a highly excellent '''tertiary''' source. Since the tertiary sources are in the business of "balancing statements", to question its leadworthiness is uncalled for and is not a valid comparison to the sentences being copied from the body into the lead. To call for its exclusion is a desperate POV counter to the exclusion of Hindu POV content. The two are sinply incomparable given their presence or absence in the tertiary sources. ] (]) 16:57, 20 December 2017 (UTC) :Being in the business of the academic world myself and recognising the value of each source for what its worth I will comment that this sentence "It has been estimated that twice as many Muslim women were abducted compared to Hindu and Sikh women, due to the actions of organised Sikh jathas." is sourced to a highly excellent '''tertiary''' source. Since the tertiary sources are in the business of "balancing statements", to question its leadworthiness is uncalled for and is not a valid comparison to the sentences being copied from the body into the lead. To call for its exclusion is a desperate POV counter to the exclusion of Hindu POV content. The two are sinply incomparable given their presence or absence in the tertiary sources. ] (]) 16:57, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Revision as of 02:15, 21 December 2017

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Violence against women during the Partition of India article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 10 days 
Peace dove with olive branch in its beakPlease stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.
This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconIndia Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconPakistan Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PakistanWikipedia:WikiProject PakistanTemplate:WikiProject PakistanPakistan
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconWomen's History Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconHuman rights Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconCrime and Criminal Biography Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Lead

@Dilpa kaur: I am not seeing how MOS:LEAD has been violated. The lead gives WP:DUE weight. Raymond3023 (talk) 14:45, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

the lead is meant to summarise the main points from the body, details belong in the body, should i add details abt ethnic cleansing in Gurgaon into the lead too? Dilpa kaur (talk) 14:55, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Article should state where the violence started from. Given that you had removed the entire information first then you started to point contradiction with the lead policy, doesn't make a lot of sense. Capitals00 (talk) 15:08, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Specific incidents are not encyclopedoc content, especially in a summary introduction.JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 15:11, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
This whole incident is a "specific" incident". Unless you agree to remove "It has been estimated that twice as many Muslim women were abducted compared to Hindu and Sikh women, due to the actions of organised Sikh jathas" then only neutrality will be achieved, because we have to mention that who started it if you are mentioning the atrocities, otherwise it is incomplete. Capitals00 (talk) 15:30, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Capitals00, you need to read WP:BALANCE. Achieving neutrality does not mean balance Hindus and Muslims. This is not a contest. That Muslims outnumbered Hindus among the abducted is not a specific incident but a general detail. KA$HMIR (talk) 15:42, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
You can refer to the pre-sock lead when it was the whole article. It didn't included any such details, also there is no prohibition in providing details about who started the violence on lead. Capitals00 (talk) 15:55, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the lead sentence comparing Muslim vs Hindu/Sikh women makes it look precisely like a contest. I suggest removing it. I also don't think the Rawalpindi detail belongs in the lead, despite it being the "beginning" of partition violence. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:27, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Previous revisions of a Misplaced Pages page are not a proof for anything. Verifiability alone does not guarantee inclusion. We are not an indiscriminate collection of information, see WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Show a tertiary source which says Muslims started the violence, for it to be worthy of being in the lead. Note Fowler&fowler's ] on the importance of tertiary sources for the lead. Also source does not say Muslims started the violence. It just says violence started in Rawalpindi district. Nothing more. WP:OR prohibits us from deducing anything further unless explicitly stated in the source like "Muslims started the violence in Rawalpindi". Even if true, it does not call for copying two whole paragraphs of the body into the lead which is meant to summarise the entire article. KA$HMIR (talk) 16:46, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Well, you said it is not a contest, which is a noble thought. But a contest is precisely what you are making it. So, either keep both or keep neither. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 02:15, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
Being in the business of the academic world myself and recognising the value of each source for what its worth I will comment that this sentence "It has been estimated that twice as many Muslim women were abducted compared to Hindu and Sikh women, due to the actions of organised Sikh jathas." is sourced to a highly excellent tertiary source. Since the tertiary sources are in the business of "balancing statements", to question its leadworthiness is uncalled for and is not a valid comparison to the sentences being copied from the body into the lead. To call for its exclusion is a desperate POV counter to the exclusion of Hindu POV content. The two are sinply incomparable given their presence or absence in the tertiary sources. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 16:57, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Categories:
Talk:Violence against women during the Partition of India: Difference between revisions Add topic