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Revision as of 20:18, 25 January 2018

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Welcome to Misplaced Pages, Wandrative! Thank you for your contributions. I am Aristophanes68 and I have been editing Misplaced Pages for some time, so if you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Misplaced Pages:Questions or type {{help me}} at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Aristophanes68 (talk) 21:26, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Help me!

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

Hello! I understand how to report a known ID or a single IP address. However, on this particular article called, "Gwanggaeto the Great", a constant stream of vandal activities has been prominent recently. They come from unknown ID's from many different IP addresses, but its seems very apparent to be from the same person. I figure that this person accomplishing this in a library, changing computers. Named editors like Burgershots, GabetheEditor, and myself, as well as the ClueBotNG itself continuously reverted 'their' activities but they seem to come back. Is it possible to block edits from ID less IP addresses from tampering with this article? At least if the article deals with heated controversial elements, we should be dealing with actual people with true accounts, not ID less computer changers.

Wandrative (talk) 18:19, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

And that person has done it again. I've put in a request for page protection, which will probably get the page protected from anonymous editors for a while. You might bookmark this link in case you need to use it in the future: Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_page_protection. I hope that helps! Aristophanes68 (talk) 19:42, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

This helps immensely! Thank you so much! I will soon end this thread when things seems to fade and settle. Wandrative (talk) 19:57, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for this notice. Another admin has protected the page. For you future information, if it is one user who is vandalizing Misplaced Pages, it can be reported at Misplaced Pages:Administrator intervention against vandalism. If you see disruptive edits by multiple users on any article, you may request that an admin temporarily protect the page, at Misplaced Pages:Requests for page protection. — Maile (talk) 23:50, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Another tip: If you click on Watchlist at the top of your screen, you can see when someone comments on the discussion page for the articles. Aristophanes68 (talk) 07:14, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

War with IP Users - Presumably Vandals

 (There was a sudden instance of discussions with an unknown ID.  The topics of discussions were unrelated to any of the activities that I have been involved within wikipedia. In fact, it took place in a form of a sudden harassment, targeting me for no apparent reason. For these reasons, the conversations have been removed - but they are visible in the previous editorials.)

Goguryeo–Sui War

https://en.wikipedia.org/Goguryeo%E2%80%93Sui_War he record Modern estimates vary from 3,000,000 《삼국사기》고구려본기 영양왕 三國史記 卷第二十 髙句麗本紀 第八 《삼국사기》 삼국사기 Samguk Sagi https://en.wikipedia.org/Samguk_Sagi its compilation was ordered by Goryeo's King Injong (r. 1122-1146) and undertaken by the government official and historian Kim Busik it is not modern estimate 삼국사기 samkuksagi It was made in 1146 also in book , not estimate to 3.000.000 estimate to 1.133.000 When he sees a record he does not want, he removes it. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Goguryeo%E2%80%93Sui_War&action=history

Please sign your editorials. A primary (if not secondary) medieval source can always be used as the basis of modern estimates. Are you trying to discredit every single historical document just because they are old? As I have mentioned before, I am trying to preserve the range of the lowest and highest extremes (60,000 to 3 million) - while you are trying to keep the article heavily biased by simply leaving one extreme and erasing the other. You cannot erase a credited source just because it conflicts with your ideals, especially when the estimate 'that appeals your ideals' is nicely represented within my version of the editorial. I removed 'lee ki hun's' source because I couldn't find a part where he claims the army count to be 60,000 - and I will accept that source one you can show me the information from within the article. As for 《삼국사기》고구려본기 영양왕 三國史記 卷第二十 髙句麗本紀 第八, the article completely supports the statement:

(Original)

八 年 夏 五 月 遣 使 入 隋 朝 貢 . 三 年 春 正 月 遣 使 入 隋 朝 貢 . 夏 五 月 遣 使 謝 恩 . . 三 月 䇿 封 爲 髙 句 麗 王 仍 賜 車 服 進 奉 因 請 封 王 帝 許 之 . 二 年 春 正 月 遣 使 入 隋 奉 表 謝 恩 三 司 襲 爵 遼 東 郡 公 賜 衣 一 襲 . 隋 文 帝 遣 使 拜 王 爲 上 開 府 儀 同 太 子 三 十 二 年 王 薨 太 子 即 位 . 民 自 任 . 平 原 王 在 位 七 年 立 爲 王 長 子 也 . 風 神 俊 爽 以 濟 丗 安 嬰 陽 王 陽.一云平諱 元 元.一云大平 原 髙 句 麗 本 紀 第 八 建武王嬰陽王· 宣 撰 . 史 · 上 柱 國 致 仕 臣 金 富 軾 奉 部 事 · 集 賢 殿 太 學 士 · 監 修 國 太 保 · 門 下 侍 中 · 判 尚 書 吏 禮 開 府 儀 同 三 司 · 檢 校 太 師 · 守 輸 忠 定 難 靖 國 贊 化 同 德 功 臣 ·

集 五 卷 . 國 初 始 用 文 字 時 有 人 詔 大 學 愽 士 李 文 眞 約 古 史 爲 新 十 一 年 春 正 月 遣 使 入 隋 朝 貢 . 之 . 王 知 其 事 侵 掠 百 濟 之 境 . 赦 之 不 可 致 伐 . ” 厚 其 使 而 遣 帝 下 詔 諭 以 “ 髙 勾 麗 服 罪 朕 已 百 濟 王 昌 遣 使 奉 表 請 爲 軍 導 . 初 . 土 臣 某 . ’ 帝 於 是 罷 兵 待 之 如 恐 懼 遣 使 謝 罪 上 表 稱 ‘ 遼 東 糞 秋 九 月 師 還 死 者 十 八 九 . 王 亦 舡 多 漂 沒 . 睺 自 東 萊 泛 海 趣 平 壤 城 亦 遭 風 不 繼 軍 中 乏 食 復 遇 疾 疫 . 周 羅 漢 王 諒 軍 出 臨 渝 關 値 水 潦 餽 轉 夏 六 月 帝 下 詔 黜 王 官 爵 . 爲 元 帥 將 水 陸 三 十 萬 來 伐 . 聞 而 大 怒 命 漢 王 諒 · 王 丗 績 並 營 州 㧾 管 韋 冲 擊 退 之 . 隋 文 帝 九 年 王 率 靺 鞨 之 衆 萬 餘 侵 遼 西 來 朝 勿 自 疑 懼 . 存 育 之 禮 當 如 當 往 𣵠 郡 . 爾 還 日 語 爾 王 冝 早 啓 民 誠 心 奉 囯 故 親 至 其 帳 明 年 帝 從 之 . 勑 牛 弘 宣 旨 曰 “ 朕 以 化 . 可 因 其 恐 懼 脅 使 入 朝 . ” 乎 . 今 其 使 者 親 見 啓 民 舉 國 從 不 取 使 冠 帯 之 境 遂 爲 蠻 貊 之 郷 肖 師 出 無 㓛 . 當 陛 下 之 時 安 可 域 先 帝 欲 征 之 久 矣 . 但 楊 諒 不 晉 皆 爲 郡 縣 . 今 乃 不 臣 別 爲 異 “ 髙 勾 麗 本 箕 子 所 封 之 地 漢 · 之 見 帝 . 黄 門 侍 郎 裴 矩 說 帝 曰 使 者 在 啓 民 所 . 啓 民 不 敢 隠 與 十 八 年 初 焬 帝 之 幸 啓 民 帳 也 我 克 而 退 . 皷 噪 相 應 . 勝 以 彼 衆 我 寡 恐 不 漢 山 城 . 羅 王 率 兵 過 漢 水 城 中 十 四 年 王 遣 將 軍 髙 勝 攻 新 羅 北 . 記 事 一 百 卷 名 曰 留 記 至 是 刪 修

歷 年 永 久 惡 稔 旣 盈 . 天 道 禍 淫 繁 以 訖 今 . 睠 彼 華 壤 翦 爲 夷 類 阻 種 落 還 集 萃 川 藪 於 徃 代 播 寔 復 漢 · 魏 誅 戮 巢 穴 暫 傾 亂 離 多 · 碣 之 間 荐 食 遼 · 濊 之 境 . 雖 “ 髙 句 麗 小 醜 迷 昏 不 恭 崇 聚 勃 二 十 三 年 春 正 月 王 午 帝 下 詔 曰 方 兵 皆 集 𣵠 郡 . 夏 四 月 車 蓋 至 𣵠 郡 之 臨 朔 宫 四 句 麗 . 二 十 二 年 春 二 月 焬 帝 下 詔 討 高 夏 四 月 拔 新 羅 牛 鳴 山 城 . 虜 獲 八 千 人 . 十 九 年 春 二 月 命 將 襲 新 羅 北 境 . . 移 襲 石 頭 城 虜 男 女 三 千 而 還 夏 五 月 遣 師 攻 百 濟 松 山 城 不 下 之 . 啓 民 突 厥 可 汗 也 . 彼 土 . ” 王 懼 藩 禮 頗 闕 帝 將 討 啓 民 . 苟 或 不 朝 將 帥 啓 民 徃 巡 徭 役 無 期 力 竭 轉 輸 身 塡 溝 壑 百 以 仍 歳 災 凶 比 屋 饑 饉 兵 戈 不 息 之 成 俗 賄 貨 如 市 寃 枉 莫 申 . 重 強 臣 豪 族 咸 執 國 鈞 朋 黨 比 周 以 不 可 容 . 且 法 令 苛 酷 賦 歛 煩 重 之 心 豈 爲 臣 之 禮 . 此 而 可 忍 孰 境 而 擁 塞 道 路 拒 絶 王 人 無 事 君 奉 使 爰 曁 海 東 旌 節 所 次 途 經 藩 徃 來 虐 及 弗 辜 誠 而 遇 禍 . 輶 車 同 禀 正 朔 . 遂 復 敓 攘 琛 責 遏 絶 又 青 丘 之 表 咸 修 職 貢 碧 海 之 濵 劉 海 戍 習 靺 鞨 之 服 侵 軼 遼 西 . 懐 恩 翻 爲 長 惡 乃 兼 契 丹 之 黨 處 緩 前 禽 之 戮 未 即 後 服 之 誅 曽 不 之 廢 業 . 在 昔 薄 伐 已 漏 天 網 旣 勞 烽 候 . 關 柝 以 之 不 靜 生 人 爲 誘 納 亡 叛 不 知 紀 極 充 斥 邊 垂 亟 未 甞 面 受 朝 覲 之 禮 莫 肯 躬 親 . 掩 慝 懐 姦 唯 曰 不 足 . 移 告 之 嚴 亡 徵 已 兆 . 亂 常 敗 徳 非 可 勝 圖

(Transcription of the topic of debate into Korean Hangul/Joseongul)

"모두 1백 13만 3천 8백 명인데 2백만 명이라 하였으며, 군량을 수송하는 자는 그 배였다. (중략) 매일 1군씩을 보내어 서로 거리가 40리가 되게 하고 진영이 연이어 점차 나아가니, 40일만에야 출발이 완료되었다. 머리와 꼬리가 서로 이어지고 북과 나팔소리가 서로 들리고 깃발이 960리에 걸쳤다. 어영(御營) 안에는 12위(衛)·3대(臺)·5성(省)·9시(寺)를 합하고, 내외 전후 좌우(內外前後左右) 6군을 나누어 예속시키고 다음에 출발하게 하니 또한 80리를 뻗쳤다."

(Partial Translation into English)

"In total there are 1,133,800, but is actually said to be 2 million, and the axillary army was multiple times that number. (ommited) It took 40 full days to begin the march the total army continuously, sending 1 army per day, 40 li's apart. (ommited) Wandrative (talk) 23:24, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

An Administrator's help will be highly thankful

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

<Hello. I have been following the article, Goguryeo–Sui War since May(2017). The help of the administrators stabilized the problems with random sock-puppet ID's back then. A problem arose again, but this time the conflict is shared with Dldusgml1234 (I can safely say that Dldusgml1234 was under the IP adress called 58.127.133.173). The conflict at hand is about the army count estimation of the Second Sui Invasion (Traditionally accepted sources, such as the Book of Sui writes the army count to be 1,133,000). The original statement presented the lowest extreme estimate to the highest extreme estimate (600,000 to 3 million). Dldusgml1234 attempts to erase the highest extreme estimate whilst leaving the lowest extreme. This makes the article extremely biased to say the least. He added the source, 'ki-hun Lee.https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Lee_ki_hun.jpg (1997). 전쟁으로 보는 한국 역사' to support the claim of 600,000 (Which is already sourced and I have no intention of erasing it). However, ki-hun Lee states that the army was 1,133,000, composing of the main assaulting army of 650,000 and the auxiliary armines composing the rest. Because of this reason, I removed it from supporting the claim. Dldusgml1234 additionally attempts to add TV talk show episodes on Youtube as a credible source. As for the source supporting the highest estimate, it clearly supports the statement:

《삼국사기》고구려본기 영양왕 三國史記 卷第二十 髙句麗本紀 第八

(Original) 凡一百十三萬三千八百人號二百萬其餽輸者倍之.冝杜於南桑乾水上類上帝於臨朔宫南祭馬祖於薊城北.帝親授節度每軍上將·亞將各一人騎兵四十隊隊百人十隊爲團歩卒八十隊分爲四團團各有偏將一人.

(Transcription of the topic of debate into Korean Hangul/Joseongul)

"모두 1백 13만 3천 8백 명인데 2백만 명이라 하였으며, 군량을 수송하는 자는 그 배였다. (중략) 매일 1군씩을 보내어 서로 거리가 40리가 되게 하고 진영이 연이어 점차 나아가니, 40일만에야 출발이 완료되었다. 머리와 꼬리가 서로 이어지고 북과 나팔소리가 서로 들리고 깃발이 960리에 걸쳤다. 어영(御營) 안에는 12위(衛)·3대(臺)·5성(省)·9시(寺)를 합하고, 내외 전후 좌우(內外前後左右) 6군을 나누어 예속시키고 다음에 출발하게 하니 또한 80리를 뻗쳤다."

(Partial Translation into English)

"In total there are 1,133,800, but is actually said to be 2 million, and the axillary army was multiple times that number. (ommited) It took 40 full days to begin the march the total army continuously, sending 1 army per day, 40 li's apart. (ommited)

Dldusgml1234 continuously removed this highly accredited source, and his reasons for doing so was, 'because it is too old and cannot be a modern estimate'. One should realize that numerous modern estimates are based on primary/secondary historical sources.

I believe that both of the extremes should be well represented within the article, or both not be represented at all. Leaving only one part is highly biased. To solve this problem, I wish Dldusgml1234 could be taken care of (he already was warned him 4 times, if not 8 times) by banning him, or by protecting the page itself. Thanks.>

--Wandrative (talk) 20:36, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected for a week as a content dispute - try to discuss on talk page Ronhjones  22:07, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you so much once again Ronhjones! Wandrative (talk) 03:01, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

See User_talk:Ronhjones#Ronhjones_Goguryeo.E2.80.93Sui_War !! Ronhjones  14:23, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

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Zanhe

Please do not add commentary, your own point of view, or your own personal analysis to Misplaced Pages articles, as you did to Sinophobia. Doing so violates Misplaced Pages's neutral point of view policy and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. Thank you. Zanhe (talk) 23:49, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@Zanhe: I did not add any original research in the article, Sinophobia. The statement that you have reverted did not represent the information written in the original source material cited: Kang Man-gil (2002). Doubts about the Korean History. Seohae Munjip. p. 14. ISBN 89-7483-165-1. It specifically writes about the three Korean states: Goguryeo, Baekje, and Silla going through destructions or raids by the Tang, and how that led to a negative viewpoint. In the matter of fact, you are imposing your own point of view on contrary to the original credited sourced material. This falls into the "Defamation regarding article subjects" category once again. The edit has nothing to do with the neutral point of view, as I simply only clarified the misrepresented material, whilst you are the one violating Misplaced Pages's neutral point of view policy by preferring the biased misrepresented the statement. For these reasons, you have committed an "Improper use of warning or blocking template" on my talk page. Furthermore, even if the warning was valid, you have immediately jumped into a level 2 warning instead of level 1. I will correct your improper usage of the warning icon for this valid reason. Wandrative (talk) 03:11, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Please do not falsely accuse other editors of vandalism, as you did here. I do not always agree with User:Koraskadi's edits, but he's a good-faith, competent editor and definitely not a vandal. Calling people vandals just because they disagree with you is WP:personal attack and will not be tolerated. -Zanhe (talk) 18:51, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Goryeo vandalism

Hi User:Wandrative. I would be happy to help. Have you considered requesting extended auto-confirmed permissions or something similiar. --Failosopher (talk) 17:55, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

@Failosopher: Hello. It is nice to know that you would help. Thank you so much! I was actually not aware of the technicalities that you have introduced me to. This must be really helpful, but I don't think it would grant me temporary rights that administrators could impose. Unfortunately, the types of vandals are not regular amateur ones. These are hardcore Sinocentrics that try to rewrite the histories of all the nations surrounding China, into the extremist Chinese narrative. User:Zanhe, in particular, has accumulated a great load of merit via inbound Chinese editorials. As it is clear to be seen on my page, denying the charges with no reason or explanation is commonplace. Perhaps in a couple of days, several administrators will investigate, and I think it would benefit the most if you could support the situation at hand if any discussions or accusations about this topic appears. You can always count on me for help in relation to Persian History (Im an Ancient Middle Eastern History Major going for masters) if anything happens there also!. Thanks! Wandrative (talk) 20:18, 25 January 2018 (UTC)