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Visual arts Project‑class

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Visual arts, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of visual arts on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Visual artsWikipedia:WikiProject Visual artsTemplate:WikiProject Visual artsvisual arts Project This page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

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/Contemporary Art /Archive 1 • May 2005 – Nov 2006 /Archive 2 • Nov 2006 – May 2007 /Archive 3 • Jun 2007 (Infoart cleanup) /Archive 4 • Jun 2007 – Dec 2007 (Image sizing) /Archive 5 • Jan 2008 – Jun 2008 /Archive 6 • Jul 2008 – Dec 2008 /Archive 7 • Jan 2009 – Jun 2009 /Archive 8 • Jul 2009 – Jan 2010 /Archive 9 • Feb 2010 – present

This page has archives. Sections older than 60 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 3 sections are present.

An image request

Hello. I'm not proficient at uploading or documenting images, so if someone can please assist then feel free to consider Frida Kahlo turning over in her grave and waving at you. Or giving her sister the finger. The new page Memory, the Heart (as I told AB, not to be confused with The Heart, She Holler), which is already getting substantial views, could use an image of the subject painting. I know help is on the way, my new app told me so. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:08, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Renewing request because of the amount of views of Memory, the Heart. Any takers on uploading an image? Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 17:06, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi Randi, I found it here, https://www.fridakahlo.org/memory-the-heart.jsp#prettyPhoto it's just that I need to have some approval that there is no copy right. Someone who is in charge of her estate or museum needs to write to me and I'll help uploading it. I think that's how it works. --Forever Art (talk) 09:30, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

It will certainly be in copyright, but if there is an article on the painting can be loaded to en:wp (not Commons) with a fair use exemption. Johnbod (talk) 11:39, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Forever Art (nice user name) and Johnbod (nice as well). There is an article, but I've never done an upload, so any help on that appreciated. The page is still obtaining over 100 hits a day, and an image would improve it. I'm surprised the site doesn't have images of all of Kahlo's paintings but their age is inside the copyright limit. Thanks again. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:43, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

• Have tried several times to upload the image retrieved here, but the "Upload Wizard" isn't giving me a working upload button. I seem to have provided all the data asked for. Can someone else please give it a try? It's a copyrighted image for use in the article Memory, the Heart, the 1937 painting by Frida Kahlo, to show readers the painting. I don't know what I'm missing in the upload process. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:19, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Orientalist artists

This is to let you know that I have been working on the subject of Orientalist artists for the past 3-4 months. The List of Orientalist artists has been expanded from some 30-40 names to more than 500 names, with links to either the English article or a foreign language[REDACTED] article has been included. This list is now the most comprehensive digital list of Orientalists on the web.

I have also added the category "Orientalist painters" to most of the articles, so that the category has now been populated with the names of more than 400 artists who have produced Orientalist works and have articles in the English language version of Misplaced Pages.

Along the way, I have made every effort to expand articles that were classified as stubs; add suitable references to those articles that were tagged with "cn" tags or similar; added a few images to Wiki Commons, and add infoboxes to those articles that did not yet have this feature, as per your request on the main project page. I had almost completed this task, when I encountered an editor, who is part of your project group and who actively dislikes infoboxes. He began deleting the infoboxes from articles almost as soon I added them. His beef, he claimed, is that infoboxes are prone to factual errors, but I suspect that there is more to it than that. After all, the facts in the infobox come directly from the article (or occasionally from wiki commons), so if the infobox is factually incorrect, then surely the article also needs attention? In any case, following some futile discussion with this editor, he advised me to cease editing art articles. And, I have decided to take this advice simply because it is not worth getting into an edit war over it.

The vast majority of the names on the list of Orientalist articles currently have articles in the English Misplaced Pages, but a small proportion only have articles in one of the foreign language Wikipedias; and an even smaller number have no article in any Misplaced Pages. The vast majority of the Orientalist artists' articles now have infoboxes, except for a few with family names beginning with "W", "X", "Y" and "Z" which is where I was at when I was advised to quit editing these types of articles.

So, if there is someone who wants to create new articles on notable Orientalist artists, or to translate articles on notable artists into English, then the List of Orientalist artists might be a good place to begin. And, if there is someone brave enough to add infoboxes to the few Orientalist artists that don't yet have them, then that would also be useful. BronHiggs (talk) 06:58, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

There are many who don't like infoboxes for artist bios, and they do have problems, which were exemplified in some of the articles sampled from your list - inaccurate information (eg "Neoclassicism" wrongly used) and displacing more important images. Calling some of these artists "Orientalists" is rather stretching things. But thanks for your efforts anyway. Johnbod (talk) 12:03, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

I should have mentioned that all the attributions as Orientalist artists have been derived from books and articles on the subject and that a reference list is provided at the bottom of the article. I appreciate that you think your opinions are more worthy than those of scholars and art curators, but I take the view that WP editors should simply report what reliable sources have to say on a subject, rather than pressing their own POV. All the facts in the infoboxes were cut and paste from the article, so if you have a problem with the data in the infoboxes, then perhaps it might be worthwhile spending some time cleaning up the articles. From what I have read on Misplaced Pages, Johnbod is the only one who dislikes infoboxes. BronHiggs (talk) 21:39, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Ah well, read more and you will find differently! Johnbod (talk) 00:57, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Retitle "Yale Student Abortion Art Controversy" as "Aliza Shvarts" (BLP of an artist)

Hello,

This question being raised simultaneously on the BLP Noticeboard, the article's talk page, and here.

I'm a researcher and art historian who's been invited to write on Aliza Shvarts's practice. I'd like to propose changing Yale student abortion art controversy to a BLP page for Aliza Shvarts. Much of this page was written and contested in 2008, during the event’s emergence onto the stage of notability. It’s now been ten years since Shvarts came to notability as a BLP1E (the title of which was highly contested on the talk page, and the page was shortly thereafter reviewed and recast as an Event) and underwent a deletion review, and seven years since a user blanked the article’s content in its entirety, and it was restored. In the decade since the scandal, scholars and critics have written about the "controversy" not as a controversy, but as a controversial artwork, part of Aliza's larger critical and artistic practice. Because of this, I believe the page should be reclassified as a BLP, in which the controversy surrounding the artwork figures as one (substantiative) section.

Thoughts? Vera Syuzhet (talk) 14:25, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Vera Syuzhet—what is the advantage to making the article about the artist instead of the artwork? Is the artist interesting? Isn't it the artwork that is thought-provoking moreso than the artist? Bus stop (talk) 19:24, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

• Please centralize discussion in the same location: Talk:Yale student abortion art controversy#Requested move 14 May 2018 czar 01:27, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Notability guidelines for art galleries

In my opinion, certainly not those of present notability guidelines, an art gallery demonstrates notability by by means of its exhibition schedule, but this exhibition schedule cannot be sourced to the art gallery because the art gallery is not independent of itself, therefore it is my opinion that reviews of art exhibitions validly contribute to the notability of art galleries. Recent AfDs have held that reviews of shows at art galleries do not contribute to notability. I believe the argument is that it is only the art that is referenced in such reviews and not the gallery. At Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Simon Lee Gallery an art gallery with many reviews of exhibitions was deleted. I don't think art galleries try to call attention to themselves. Art galleries are concerned with showcasing art. Independent sources write about the art seen at a gallery. I think that should be the number one contributor to notability for art galleries. At present, I don't think notability guidelines exist specifically for art galleries. Do others agree that such guidelines should be formulated? And shouldn't such guidelines take into consideration the reviews by sources of exhibitions? Bus stop (talk) 19:09, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

• The general notability guideline covers the entire encyclopedia (save for academics, apparently). The subject-specific notability guidelines were designed as shortcuts for frequent discussions, e.g., if X has Y qualifications, it will undoubtedly have significant coverage in multiple reliable, independent sources, etc. It's not going to bypass the endgame of requiring in-depth discussion in sources.

I don't think anyone would argue that reviews of art exhibitions somehow contribute to the gallery's notability, but the question is to what extent the coverage is of the gallery itself. I looked through the sources in the deleted Simon Lee Gallery and the only coverage past mere mentions was Is the second link planted PR? because it looks like it. The third link is an interview/self-published source. It is possible to write an article that does justice to the topic with that sourcing? Now, alternatively, would we have enough sourcing for the gallerist? czar 01:43, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Wrong! If we're talking about commercial galleries, not museums, all a gallery does is host exhibitions, and galleries that host notable exhibitions are notable. Otherwise all there is to say is how nice the toilets are. But the artists need to be notable, and the coverage not merely local. Johnbod (talk) 03:30, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Galleries that host exhibitions of notable artists that are reviewed; and discussed in a multiple of sources including magazines, newspapers and online publications are notable...Modernist (talk) 10:36, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

• Ongoing commentary—A gallery is essentially an empty space that reflects the taste of its owners and operators. It provides ancillary services but these are rarely the sorts of things that are taken note of. Walls have to be painted. Lighting has to be provided. When sources review exhibitions, those sources are indirectly supporting the notability of the art gallery. That is because it was the taste of the owners and operators and the initiative of the owners and operators that set in motion the forces leading to the exhibitions that are being reviewed. Therefore a review of a show is supportive of the notability of the art gallery. Bus stop (talk) 11:56, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
• I think we ought to rewrite WP:ARTIST first, but if we are going to write a notability guideline for art galleries, I think that merely exhibiting notable artists does NOT make a gallery notable. There are plenty of galleries that work in the secondary market that sell art by eminently notable artists, but do not in any way contribute to what I'd call a critical discourse about the art they exhibit. I think that art galleries are poorly served with NCORP, because some of them are not like other businesses, and more like (free) museums. A gallery that is notable has noticeable impact (in the art world) and is, in some way, the subject of significant critical attention. For example, Betty Parsons, Ileana Sonnabend, Leo Castelli and Marian Goodman can be considered to have created a market for the artists they represent. Sometimes their efforts are reflected in museum collections. Some galleries produce exhibition catalogues that do get reviews, like for example Hauser Wirth & Schimmel, who produced Revolution in the Making, (I have a draft for an article about that exhibit here). A recent deletion discussion of a gallery at Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Alexander_Friedmann-Hahn concluded that reviews of exhibitions do not by themselves establish notability if there is nothing about the gallery in those reviews. It may not have helped that the majority of artists that the gallery represented were themselves not notable. (See User_talk:DGG#curators_and_gallerists for a discussion). I have in the past compared some gallery rosters to see just how many of the artists galleries represent have Misplaced Pages articles. Notes are here. Vexations (talk) 22:03, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
• So I learn from this that there is a Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Artists, split off from the main VA one in 2016. Who knew? Not me, or I suspect many here - the other one continues to get many artists. These deletion debates now seem to have few editors one recognises as working in the field. We should all watchlist this. Johnbod (talk) 22:40, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Is there any reason for this page?

Is there a reason to believe that there are multiple forthcoming articles for Portrait of Madame Cézanne (disambiguation)? I am calling on the experts of this subject matter.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:01, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Well at least one anyway, yes. Johnbod (talk) 14:10, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

• The dab was whittled down from three entries to two, so WP:2DABS applies (read: a hatnote would be sufficient if/when there is a separate article for the non-Lichtenstein painting) czar 14:24, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

courtesy ping creator @Wikisaurus czar 14:25, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Of course the Lichtenstein would no longer be primary if we had the other article. Probably the Barnes Foundation Cezanne would be, though I'm sure C did others - ah yes, some 18 at least. Someone should do a stub, or a group article. Johnbod (talk) 14:29, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

• Added Portrait of Madame Cézanne with Loosened Hair, also in Philly. Pah! Exits grumbling.... Johnbod (talk) 14:37, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Oh, 27 frigging portraits! Johnbod (talk) 14:39, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

• Marie-Hortense Fiquet, great article...Modernist (talk) 14:57, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Which the Lichtenstein article now actually links to ..... Johnbod (talk) 15:03, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

June Women in Red focus on GLAM

--Ipigott (talk) 10:35, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject

The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template {{Transclude lead excerpt}}.

The discussion about this can be found here.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

Background

On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive.

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page.

Thank you.    — The Transhumanist   08:00, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Invaluable now available through The Misplaced Pages Library!

Free access to Invaluable is now available through the Library Card platform. Invaluable is a database of artists and auctions with more than 5 million entries, including 500,000 artists. You can sign up for free access now! Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 17:55, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Charles Lorin

Is this person notable? Should the article be moved to mainspace? I see occasional mentions in him in various books, but not much in-depth. Calliopejen1 (talk) 06:06, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

"Genevan" as a nationality

User:Sapphorain, a Genevan local blown in from French WP, has a bee in his bonnet that for most of the early modern period the Republic of Geneva was independent, although tied to the Old Swiss Confederacy, part of the Holy Roman Empire. He has been going around removing "Swiss" from bios of artists like Jean-Étienne Liotard and creating categories like Category:Artists from the Republic of Geneva and Category:Engravers from the Republic of Geneva under Category:People from the Republic of Geneva (1541–1815). Originally he removed these entirely from the Swiss biographical tree. ULAN and other sources just call these people "Swiss" and so should we. Whatever the technical legal situation in the 18th century, here as elsewhere we should use the equivalent modern nationalities for the main categories.

I've launched a CFD discussion to merge them back into the Swiss categories. This is potentially the thin end of a huge wedge - I think many of us know of the city-nationalists or others who go around removing "Italian" and replace it with "Venetian", but they do not remove Venetian painters from the Italian tree. Unfortunately the discussion at CFD has been ill-attended, and is not going well. Any comments at Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_June_10#Category:Engravers_from_the_Republic_of_Geneva would be very welcome. Johnbod (talk) 13:36, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

I have a feeling we're going to have this same conflict over-and-over again. Wasn't there something about 17th century Belgian artists recently? It all seems to hinge on differing views of the exact meaning of nationality is in the in Category:X by nationality subcategories. It frankly gives me the shivers to refer to as Belgian who was born before 1830 (there was no such country). But I can see that "Belgian artists" is really shorthand for "Artists who were born, or predominantly worked in, what is currently the territory of the Kingdom of Belgium". It is practical and helpful to our readers to do the categories in that way. Category:People by nationality makes it clear that we refer to regions or historical nations in addition to modern nations. To take a strict textualist approach to categorization defeats its purpose. It leads to categories that are technically correct, but mostly useless because our readers wouldn't use them, or even know where to look. For a reader, it should be possible to start at a parent category and navigate to the article about an artist from the region they're interested in, starting with what is currently a country, like Switzerland. If categorizing people as X from the Republic of Geneva prevents that, it's wrong, but I would think that Category:Swiss people > Swiss people by occupation > Swiss artists > Artists from the Republic of Geneva works just fine as long as Artists from the Republic of Geneva is a non-diffusing subcategory of Swiss artists. Vexations (talk) 15:15, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Generally I agree, but this is much worse, as Swiss was a valid & current term in English and the local languages all through this period. He has been removing the whole Swiss tree from his "Genevan" categories, as well as mention of "Swiss/Switzerland" from articles, and is adamant that 18th-century Genevans were not Swiss at all. In any I case I feel strongly that readers should not have to hunt through local (or chronological/style) sub-cats for professions, as they unfortunately have to do with Italian artists. As so often with category matters, the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Johnbod (talk) 17:50, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

His solution appears to be insert fr:Catégorie:Artiste de la République de Genève into fr:Catégorie:Artiste par nationalité and Category:Artists from the Republic of Geneva into Category:Artists by nationality. If we agree to do this his way, then we we can't just do it to Republic of Geneva; we'd have to also agree to add every other other former sovereign state to every Category:X by nationality. Not just Category:Artists from the Republic of Geneva, but also Category:Scientists from the Republic of Geneva (nevermind, he already did that). The thing is, I do find that categories like Category:Yugoslav footballers and Category:Rhodesian archaeologists exist. I think that's impractical. I don't know if we can get consensus to limit Category:X by nationality to countries that currently exist. Unless we do get that consensus, I can't think of a reason to oppose his move based on established practice in categorization. One reason to oppose is that it is unreasonable difficult for people to find the "correct" country if we are not also adding the subject to the current country. If I'm looking for painters from what is now Switzerland, I should not be presumed to know when which parts of what is now Switzerland were not Swiss. That's just not reasonable. The strongest objection I can can think of would be that all the sources on Liotard say he was Swiss, not Genevan. We ought to go by what the sources say, and not by what we, from personal experience or original research, have decided is WP:TRUTH. Vexations (talk) 22:05, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, that's the line I am taking (EB 1911 calls Liotard just "French" btw, but what do they know!). I don't believe the current cat rules (in so far as there are any) allow people to be excluded from any current national category tree without a far better reason than there is here. Johnbod (talk) 03:04, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Guernica

Hullaballoo Wolfowitz has removed this image of Picasso's Guernica from both the Museo Nacional Centro de Arte Reina Sofía page (where the painting resides) and from the Madrid page, the city location. It is still in copyright, although "given as a gift to the people of Spain". The fair use rationale would be that it defines the museum as a repository of art, and is its most important painting. As to the city, or even for use on the Spain page, the work is a national treasure, and is surely the most well-known and important painting in the city and the country. I don't know how to precede to enlarge its scope of use. Can someone, if you feel this is a case worth making, assist in obtaining the fair use permission from Commons the proper accreditation here? Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 19:31, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

The file would have to be loaded at Misplaced Pages using {{Non-free use rationale}}. Commons doesn't allow non-free images to be loaded there.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:37, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. Have edited my request. I mean the Misplaced Pages file linked above, which is used on other Misplaced Pages pages and which I'd like to ask to be used on the museum, the Madrid, and possibly the Spain page. I'm new to the loading and permission edits. Randy Kryn (talk) 19:40, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. You want someone to help write up the non-free use rationale to add to the File:PicassoGuernica.jpg page on Misplaced Pages. I wouldn't know how to make the case for a painting to be used on an article about a city or country per non-free use rationale. Sorry, maybe someone else can make that connection.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:46, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Actually I'm asking how I'd make a request to include the image on the museum page, and then to try the Madrid and Spain discussion. The page I went to seems to be only for image deletions. Thanks for your quick responses above. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:22, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Under attack

The visual arts are now under a massive attack by the hunters (see above) and now these: and ...Modernist (talk) 11:13, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

• Project-Class visual arts pages
• WikiProject Visual arts articles
• Misplaced Pages pages with to-do lists