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Revision as of 02:11, 6 July 2018

Error reportsPlease do not post error reports for Template:In the news here. Instead, post them to WP:ERRORS. Thank you.

SuggestionsPlease do not suggest items for, or complain about items on Template:In the news here. Instead, post them to WP:ITNC. Thank you.

This talk page is for general discussions on In the news. Please note: The purpose of this page is to discuss improvements to the In the news process. It is not a place to ask general questions, report errors, or to submit news items for inclusion. Found an error in a current item? Report it on Misplaced Pages:Main Page/Errors (WP:ERRORS) Nominating a new item to be posted? Go to Misplaced Pages:In the news/Candidates (WP:ITN/C). Nominating a current item for removal? Go to Misplaced Pages:In the news/Candidates (WP:ITN/C). Updating the template yourself? Only administrators can do this. For instructions on updating the template, see Misplaced Pages:In the news/Admin instructions (WP:ITN/A) Recurring items? For items which occur more than once, such as awards or sporting competitions, see Misplaced Pages:In the news/Recurring items (WP:ITNR)

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Upcoming ITN/R suggestions (Jul–Sep)

This post attempts to highlight potential nominations that could be considered and where else to continue looking for news items. The recurring items list is a good place to start. Below is a provisional list of upcoming ITN/R events over the next few months. Note that some events may be announced earlier or later than scheduled, like the result of an election or the culmination of a sport season/tournament. Feel free to update these articles in advance and nominate them on the candidates page when they occur.

• 1 July: Mexican general election, 2018
• 15 July:
  • 2018 Wimbledon Championships
  • 2018 FIFA World Cup Final
• 22 July: 2018 Open Championship
• 25 July: Pakistani general election, 2018
• 29 July:
  • Cambodian general election, 2018
  • Malian presidential election, 2018
  • 2018 Tour de France
• 30 July: Zimbabwean general election, 2018

Happy hunting. Fuebaey (talk) 13:10, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Brackets or parentheses?

This is very minor, but I was slightly concerned about this kind of edit (pinging Nixinova as courtesy). As far as I can remember, we have always used brackets instead of parentheses to indicate the status of the thread, and I am not sure why we are seeing parentheses recently. Now, I am not really concerned about which one should be the standard to use, but I think it's unnecessary to go around changing them for the sake of consistency unless if there is a consensus to do so as a result of a discussion. Alex Shih (talk) 06:22, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

@Alex Shih: Stephen told me it has to do with linking to closed sections, and that parentheses are preferred. The change seems to have occurred in the last few months, and I know of no discussion, but it seems sensible. Vanamonde (talk) 06:27, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

There were about three discussions a week or two ago, around here. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:29, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Hmm okay, seems sensible to me too, thanks for the links guys. Can I just make a note here that when fixing markups for others, I think it should still be the good practice to mention that in the edit summary. I'll try to use parentheses too moving forward. Alex Shih (talk) 06:34, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

• I didn't put a reason for that in the edit summary because I thought everyone knew, sorry.  Nixinova  T  C  06:42, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
• Previous discussions are here and here.  Nixinova  T  C  06:45, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
• When I do it, I check "minor" and put "brackets" in the summary. Seems like a minor thing to be worried about. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:55, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

About school violence, workplace violence and mass murders

I suggest that such an event should always be kept out of Template:In the news, unless it was: (1) an act of state violence (2) an event which is accompanied in a particular war or battle (3) an event whose number of the perpetrators exceeds four, so that contagion will become less likely to happen, as psychologists argue that if such an event receives massive attention from news media, contagion may occur (cf. Ch. 3 in Moral Panics over Contemporary Children and Youth). What do you think?--RekishiEJ (talk) 12:58, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Not needed - A rule like this isn't necessary since consensus tends to end up with such noms being WP:SNOW-closed anyway.--WaltCip (talk) 13:35, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose any blanket embargo or limitations on posting any subject matter. Discussion determines what appears in ITN. You are free to oppose nominations in the areas you suggest for the reason you wish- although we are not responsible for the decisions others make to commit violence based on what they read. Misplaced Pages only contains content that is already reported in third party sources; there are plenty of ways for someone intent to do harm to get the idea to do so. 331dot (talk) 13:49, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:NOTCENSORED Teemu08 (talk) 14:44, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - let the intuition of editors govern what is added to ITN. We do a good enough job as it is in my opinion, without adding unnecessary scaffolding. Stormy clouds (talk) 21:28, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose unless you want to block flood deaths, trampling deaths, vehicular rampage deaths, prison fire deaths, volcano deaths and basically every tragedy where non notable people are killed. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:32, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Systemic bias

For all the issues that Misplaced Pages has with systemic bias, I have to say that it's impressive (and refreshing) to see that the ITN ticker has been completely international over the last few days, with no U.S.-centric stories posted. Good job to all.--WaltCip (talk) 19:53, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Does that "good job" comment apply to the abuse and insults thrown around in the Le Bron nomination? HiLo48 (talk) 21:38, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

• I'm all for international stories, but that doesn't mean there should be a goal of not posting US stories. The US is on this planet, too. 331dot (talk) 22:07, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

I agree, but your perspective is interesting. It seems that to you, there are US stories and there are international stories. 95% of the world sees it differently. HiLo48 (talk) 01:51, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Not at all. I'm simply following on from what the OP stated. 331dot (talk) 02:01, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Fair comment. HiLo48 (talk) 02:04, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

"Good job" ignoring U.S. news? You're guilty of a systemic bias, Walt. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:55, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Most recent US stories that were not posted would never even be considered for any other country, don't you think? A top judge being replaced/retiring, a domestic court case, a non record signing in a sport, etc. Do you honestly believe not posting those is due to systemic bias? Just as random examples, would you support posting a Kenyan or Greek top judge retiring? Would you support posting other court cases resolved by the highest court in any given country? The only item that probably was not posted because it was in the US was the newspaper shooting(not to open that can of worms...). Just my opinion anyway, for what little it matters. 91.248.247.162 (talk) 03:18, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

I supported the newspaper shooting on the basis that several right wing commentators and politicians had been calling for just such a thing to happen. To me, that's what made a shooting in the USA newsworthy. Most aren't. But there's this opposition inside the USA to talking about right wing, public hatred inspired crime. My suggestion got no support from Americans. Hmmmm. HiLo48 (talk) 03:55, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Without getting into the merits of any of the specific nominations, actively cheering that we're ignoring a country is a pretty big bias. It runs counter to the whole point of ITN. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:22, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Well, you can't say a country is getting ignored if you are not willing to look at the merrit of any given nomination. If there is something really noteworthy and it gets shot down, sure that would be bias. But i don't see that in the recent nominations at all, in an international context anyway. I also disagree that WaltClip is cheering on not posting nominations involving the US, but rather is noting that the editorial process works well enough to not get carried away with the over the top news coverage of any event US(how many 24/7 news channels are there?) but rather look at the actual merrit and broader significance. Sorry if i put words into your mouth there Walt, just my interpretation of the comment. 91.97.243.204 (talk) 03:34, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

The initial comment in this thread is what is relevant, not the merits of any U.S.-centric nominations that have recently failed. WaltCip says "the ITN ticker has been completely international", implying, as 331dot put it, that it's either "U.S." or "international". All five of the current ITN stories apply only to one country. The top story only pertains to Thailand. One of the stories currently on ITN pertains only to Canada. Another of the stories pertains only to Saudi Arabia. Then there's one that's about Mexico. The one about Japan isn't international either, though I suppose we could call it interstellar. The premise here is that it's okay to have stories that pertain only to one country, as long as it isn't the U.S.? This "fight" against systemic bias is a bias in and of itself. Shame on WaltCip. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:42, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Seriously? How about you stop that behaviour towards Walt? I don't think anyone is suggesting to not post important stories involving the US, just not US-centric ones. You do realise there is a difference between stories involving the US and US-centric stories, right? A US-centric story like a judge retiring should not be posted, just like it should'nt be for any other country. Or a purely domestic policy decision probably should not get posted either, just like it would not for any other country. Making exceptions for only the US would be systemic bias. But broadly significant, or perhaps unusual, events would surely be posted, just like they would for any other place on earth. And if there were 5 huge events in the US, no one in their right mind would say it is too many and oppose on that basis, but only look at the merrit of any given nomination. 91.97.243.204 (talk) 04:04, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

To add, how can you claim that something like the election of the head of state of a country of 120 million people is a purely domestic story? Or shall the US presidential election also not be featured, because... purely US story? The Thailand story is highly unusual, feel good news and so on. Even my 90 year old senile grandmother told me about that story, lol. The Canadian story, while i agree purely domestic, is still arguably noteworthy as the 2nd country overall, or 1st G7 country to legalize. The Saudi story, again domestic but noteworthy due to being one of the last countries to afford a basic human right, free movement, to all its citizens(even if only in Saudi Arabia itself in this case). And i don't think a scientific mission to further humanities understanding of the universe even needs talking about in regards to being international, or "interstellar" as you put it. 91.97.243.204 (talk) 05:58, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

We cannot control where major events happen, outside of fighting the systematic bias of what the press finds important (as we are not a news ticker). If we happen to have 5-stack of US-related stories simply because of the state of the news that week so be it. We should expect the same if there's a stack of UK-realated, EU-related, Asia-related, and so-forth. We simply need to recognize that we are not at all going to force to have a specific distribution of stories all the time. (We're not like the BBC, where there's always news stories on the various regional pages). --Masem (t) 03:42, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

It's a shame that Muboshgu chose to take the most cynical interpretation of my comment, implying that I am supporting no US-related stories being posted to the main page at all. All I was saying is that it is impressive that we have an internationally diverse selection of stories on the ITN ticker, when in the past the vast majority of stories tended to be US-centric. It's just a showing of how far we've come in terms of diversifying our selection of stories, especially in comparison to most media outlets which seem fixated nowadays on covering a running play-by-play of Trump's Twitter antics.--WaltCip (talk) 11:06, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

@WaltCip: I don't think I've taken an overly cynical interpretation, just an accurately cynical interpretation. I've been at ITN/C long enough to see the patterns of people fighting systemic bias by opposing U.S.-only events on reflex. Yet they don't seem to take the same approach to U.K.-only events. The way to reduce systemic bias is to write more articles on events from non-English countries and nominate them, which we have done a good job of lately. The wrong way to do it is to automatically reject U.S. stories by claiming they're too "parochial". – Muboshgu (talk) 18:27, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment we posted eight consecutive euro centric stories and not once did you flap your gums screaming about "systemic bias". It's a worthless bullshit objection which serves no purpose other than to push an anti American agenda. It's certainly not to be celebrated. Could someone please close this meaningless, bad faith, pointy thread? --LaserLegs (talk) 18:30, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Celebrating diversity on ITN is bad faith? I have to say that's an assumption of bad faith on your part.--WaltCip (talk) 18:32, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Eurocentrism is diversity? LOL come off it Walt, you've posted enough anti us diatribe at itnc to make this hateful thread totally transparent. If you want to amend WP:ITN#Purpose to include fighting bias or diversity or an international world view or whatever other lame fucking excuse you want to use to denigrate the USA go ahead and open an RFC so it can go down in flames. I'm digging out my laptop to close this trash. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:48, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh dear. Editing in anger is never a good idea. HiLo48 (talk) 02:11, 6 July 2018 (UTC)