Talk:Khalistan movement: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 20:40, 7 December 2018 editWiki.0hlic (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers3,781 edits →New reverts from December Tag: 2017 wikitext editor ← Previous edit		Revision as of 17:19, 23 December 2018 edit undoGenuineArt (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users2,461 editsNo edit summaryNext edit →
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	Edits by {{U\|Wiki.0hlic}} which changed terms from "failure" to "decline" also seems to have been used by reliable sources, but nothing what DBigXray wants to use. ] (]) 10:41, 7 December 2018 (UTC)		Edits by {{U\|Wiki.0hlic}} which changed terms from "failure" to "decline" also seems to have been used by reliable sources, but nothing what DBigXray wants to use. ] (]) 10:41, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
	:{{ping\|GenuineArt}} - I concur with your reverts. It is unfortunate to see an experienced Wikipedian display such blatant topic bias. - ] ] 20:40, 7 December 2018 (UTC)		:{{ping\|GenuineArt}} - I concur with your reverts. It is unfortunate to see an experienced Wikipedian display such blatant topic bias. - ] ] 20:40, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

			::{{ping\|Wiki.0hlic}} I think there is more to check here. I am detailing the some of the past reverts below. ] (]) 17:19, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

			===Past reverts===

			Looking back into the history of article, I am baffled by the edits of DBigXray here. For a name, his addition of doesn't appear to be supported by the source. Other edits also seem problematic though I will start by describing the removals first.

			*: content removed as "''remove ]''", however sources published by ], U. C. Kapur & Sons, Mittal Publications, and others were not self-published.
			*: content removed as "''controversial claims need better sources and not related to Topic''", however sources included good sources like Anamika Pub., John Murray, and others.
			*: content removed as "''WP:FRINGE already mentioned as false in next line''". While there might have been too much dependability on a single reliable source, it was clearly not ].
			*: content removed as "''more ] talking about "a section of sikhs''", though this was clearly not the case and this section included multiple sources.
			*: content removed as "''off topic''", however it was relevant to the topic since it talked about origins of the militancy and cited University of California Press as a source.
			*: content removed as "''remove ] and Adding reference(s))''" however the sources included some quality journals, and publication from South Asia Books, where as DBigXray used a that does not support "A large numbers of Sikhs condemned the actions of the militants".
			*: content removed as "''remove detailed info on state reorganisation. An intro is only needed.''" Though the edit itself appears to be violating ].
			*: content removed as "''Copyedit Adding/improving reference(s)''", the removed content was nowhere addressed.

			These misleading edits constituted removal of about 16,000 bytes. The removal was reverted by {{U\|Elephanthunter}} however he was reverted at the end of the day. Should we restore these edits back as they were removed without proper justification and consensus? ] (]) 17:19, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

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Incorrect Reference UNPO

The reference to "UNPO Official website". UNPO. Retrieved 26 May 2015. refers to this page as shown on the Internet Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20150526154223/http://unpo.org/article/2244

That page is about the Oromo of Ethiopia. It has nothing to do with Khalistan.

Unless a correct reference is provided, this information should be removed.

1.127.107.155 (talk) 20:46, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Done IP User 1.127.107.155, thank you for pointing this out. I agree and I have removed the contentious information as it failed WP:Verification. --DBig Xrayᗙ 20:56, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

@DBigXray: Here are references from the UNPO wiki article about Khalistan membership:

Downing, John D. H. John Derek Hall Downing (2011). Encyclopedia of Social Movement Media. SAGE. p. 290. ISBN 9780761926887.
Simmons, Mary Kate. Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization: yearbook. Martinus Nijhoff Publishers. p. 187. ISBN 9789041102232. Retrieved 3 August 2018.

The Flag (File:Flagge_Khalistans.svg) was made by User:J. Patrick Fischer (noted FOTW member) based on the flag presented on the website of prominent Khalistan organization "Council of Khalistan": https://web.archive.org/web/20080609124045/http://www.khalistan.net:80/

These are credible references and the Flag is accurate as well.

I am going to re-add the Flag with the caption "Flag used by the Council of Khalistan to represent Khalistan." and also add information about UNPO membership within the article. Please tell me if there are any objections. Thanks. Gotitbro (talk) 02:29, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Gotitbro thanks for your kind intentions of helping and joining the discussion on the talk page first. I have verified your links. Khalistan.net is not a WP:RS reliable source by Wiki standards, and this is a controversial piece of information, which needs to be verified by a reliable source before it can be added into the article. The info in the article stated that this was the flag that was used in UNPO and that is still unverified from a RS. --DBig Xrayᗙ 09:08, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

@DBigXray: I see. Since the flag is contentious I think the UNPO membership should be mentioned in the appropriate section, it would be great if you can do that. I would like to mention that the same flag has been used as an icon all over wiki to represent Khalistan (such as Punjab insurgency). Also is there any appropriate infobox for the article? Gotitbro (talk) 09:15, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Gotitbro Yes, indeed, the UNPO membership (without the contentious flag) deserves a mention in the article and I will be adding it to an appropriate section. If you find this flag at other places please remove it.

Regarding the WP:INFOBOX. Although it is not mandatory, we can add one if we have consensus. I am not sure which one is applicable, if you have a suggestion, let us build up an infobox here on talk page before we move it to the article. the main problem to make such an infobox will be exact data points, which is hard for this article. --DBig Xrayᗙ 09:27, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

I thought about it and looks like an infobox is more appropriate for Punjab insurgency than here. Though an appropriate image should be there in the lead. Gotitbro (talk) 10:49, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Gotitbro, All good suggestions. go ahead, create one infobox in the talk page, and we can then discuss if it needs more tweaking or if it is appropriate to add. My concern is most of the data points in the infobox will be hard to add because of lack of hard facts. That is the reason why I did not add it so far, but if you have a better idea for infobox I would be glad to add it. but lets start with a draft infobox at the talk page (or your Sandbox) first. --DBig Xrayᗙ 16:33, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

@DBigXray: What I'm saying is that the article is currently fine without an infobox (cannot find a suitable one) but since the lead image of the flag has been removed another one should be put in the lead. And the UNPO membership should be mentioned in the "Support from outside India" section. Thanks. Gotitbro (talk) 00:12, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Regarding the flag, unless we have a reliable source that we can verify the flag from, we cannot add it to the article.

Done added the UNPO membership in the section you suggested.--DBig Xrayᗙ 09:25, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

New reverts from December

I have reverted DBigXray because he reverted correct edits by two editors and used misleading edit summaries.

Content added by TurboCop is verified to multiple reliable sources, and they are not "opinions added as facts".

Edits by Wiki.0hlic which changed terms from "failure" to "decline" also seems to have been used by reliable sources, but nothing what DBigXray wants to use. GenuineArt (talk) 10:41, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

@GenuineArt: - I concur with your reverts. It is unfortunate to see an experienced Wikipedian display such blatant topic bias. - Wiki.0hlic 20:40, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

@Wiki.0hlic: I think there is more to check here. I am detailing the some of the past reverts below. GenuineArt (talk) 17:19, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Past reverts

Looking back into the history of article, I am baffled by the edits of DBigXray here. For a name, his addition of content such as this doesn't appear to be supported by the source. Other edits also seem problematic though I will start by describing the removals first.

: content removed as "remove WP:SPS", however sources published by The Hindu, U. C. Kapur & Sons, Mittal Publications, and others were not self-published.
: content removed as "controversial claims need better sources and not related to Topic", however sources included good sources like Anamika Pub., John Murray, and others.
: content removed as "WP:FRINGE already mentioned as false in next line". While there might have been too much dependability on a single reliable source, it was clearly not WP:FRINGE.
: content removed as "more WP:FRINGE talking about "a section of sikhs", though this was clearly not the case and this section included multiple sources.
: content removed as "off topic", however it was relevant to the topic since it talked about origins of the militancy and cited University of California Press as a source.
: content removed as "remove WP:SPS and Adding reference(s))" however the sources included some quality journals, and publication from South Asia Books, where as DBigXray used a source that does not support "A large numbers of Sikhs condemned the actions of the militants".
: content removed as "remove detailed info on state reorganisation. An intro is only needed." Though the edit itself appears to be violating WP:CENSOR.
: content removed as "Copyedit Adding/improving reference(s)", the removed content was nowhere addressed.

These misleading edits constituted removal of about 16,000 bytes. The removal was reverted by Elephanthunter however he was reverted at the end of the day. Should we restore these edits back as they were removed without proper justification and consensus? GenuineArt (talk) 17:19, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

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