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Berhalter's comments

Look, this isn't difficult to understand. Berhalter made obnoxious comments about an opponent in this year's World Cup. Those comments were fully sourced. Said opponent beat the U.S. 2-1 and sent an embarrassed U.S. World Cup squad to the bottom of its group. Comment highlights propensity of US Soccer personnel to overrate their team, talent pool, etc. and to underrate the potential for countries outside the elite to knock them off.

A real World Cup contender takes every squad seriously, and doesn't count on beating any team. They understand that in each tournament, as Bill Parcells would say, "you are what your record says you are". That's why you see Italy play so cautiously against the "weaker" teams throughout the tournament. That's also why you saw Italy holding the trophy after the World Cup final.

No, what you are doing is including a quote to push your own pov. Fully sourced or not we do not include every quote that every player makes about every team that they face. Furthermore you push your own pov by calling the comment "obnoxious," saying that it was "an embarassed U.S. World Cup Squad," and making the original research conclusion that the US has the propensity of overrate themselves and underrate their opponents. If this were an article about the U.S. Team in the World Cup of 2006 then the inclusion of said material would be appropriate. As is now though, this article discusses his ENTIRE career, and does NOT include other comments from other games about other opponents, just your one sided non-neutral posting. Further, you then try to use your OWN rationale to compare the United States side to the Italy side...which shows where your loyalties lie and shows that you are incapable of making a neutral judgement on the issue...as you've already outlined your disdain for US Soccer and its personnel. Therefore, until we are either A) Inclusive of every comment this person (and others) have made about every team in every game they have played, we should not include only one comment or B) we make the decision not to include trivial non-points such as this in any article as it highlights a 10 second period of a persons career and is not indicative of any sort of realistic encyclopedic value. 75.2.53.168 19:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Agree with above comment, no encyclopedic value of just a single quote. no point in only listing one quote...very pov. 157.91.44.1 23:29, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

The quote has been restored. It's sourced, it's verifiable, it's encyclopedic, and it capture's the attitude of Berhalter and the rest of United States team going into the World Cup. Other users can feel free to add other quotes if you feel balance is needed. My only connection to Mr. Berhalter's article is that he was born one town away from me; I have on POV or axe to grind. It's just a great quote. Alansohn 22:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

YOU don't get to decide if the quote stays, what we have here is a discussion of the quotes encyclopedic value, which is disputed. Under WP:BRD, since you obviously can't be bothered to read the policy, a change is made to a page in a BOLD way (hence the B in BRD), it is then disputed and REVERTED (hence the R in BRD, are you seeing a pattern yet?) and then without it being readded until DISCUSSION (guess what the D stands for) from all interested parties, you are not the only interested party, thus, you are not the sole person deciding on the quote. Read WP:BRD, several times if necessary, and then when discussion is completed, we'll figure out if the quote belongs on the page. 157.91.44.1 11:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I have seen WP:BRD before and reread it now that you seem to believe it to be gospel. Unfortunately, as stated at the top of the article, WP:BRD is merely an "essay. It is not a policy or guideline", yet you insist on misrepresenting it as policy. I reread the quote a handful of times, then reread your arrogant, obnoxious post above a few times. Then I reread your initial post here, where you try to push your own POV by blaming others for what you have arbitrarily decided is their POV. I double checked the edit history and saw a pattern of reverts claiming that the quote is nonencyclopedic, without justification, and then an explanation that reinsertion of the quote violates what is in fact NOT A[REDACTED] POLICY OR GUIDELINE. Then I saw several edits explaining why it belongs here, including the very specific suggestion that this quote can be balanced by other, relevant quotes from the same individual. Then I reviewed all of the comments here and concluded that it looks like we have a pretty even two-two split on this one. As the quote is verifiable, relevant, came directly from the individual in question and reflects the biased POV of only one individual -- Gregg Berhalter -- I fail to see any legitimate reason to remove it. I have repeatedly suggested that you can provide additional context for this quote and/or add other quotes that might better capture Berhalter as an individual. You, in turn, have offered no suggestion as to how to reach a compromise on this issue. If you feel that this quote does not capture Berhalter as an individual, I would encourage you to make responsible additions above and beyond the original quote which has been reinserted. Alansohn 13:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

The Berhalter defenders are whitewashing the article. A real biography includes bare-bone facts, as well as "flavor" that is verifiable. The Berhalter quote fits into the latter category. Why do you think Allen's "Macaca" comment was so powerful? Most of the time public figures are careful in what they say, so an unguarded comment such as Allen's provides insight into the true person.

The Berhalter quotation, while about matters far less serious, is nevertheless similar to the Allen flub. To paraphrase Alansohn, go find quotations from Berhalter or other insights that balance out the above quotation. Better yet, go to Berhalter's agency and insert their PR material about Berhalter verbatim. Just include this full, verified, relevant, and direct quotation from Berhalter alongside. Then the Wiki community can judge whether the quotation adds value to our "understanding" of Mr. Berhalter.

Quote for deletion

It has been suggested that the quote from Mr. Berhalter is inherently POV and should be omitted. Others have suggested that the quote is indicative of Berhalter's views and should be retained, with additional sources added to provide context. Let's see what consensus is on this issue and if any middle ground can be reached. This "QfD" should help us gauge attitudes and find a mutually-agreeable middle ground.

• Keep It's sourced, it's verifiable, it's encyclopedic, and it captures the attitude of Berhalter and the rest of United States team going into the World Cup. Other users can feel free to add other quotes if you feel balance is needed. Alansohn 13:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete the encyclopedic value of this quote is non-existent. Addtionally, saying that it "captures the attitude of Berhalter and the rest of the United States team" is the POV of the previous poster and original research at best. Unless Alansohn was involved in the team in 2006 then he has no way of knowing how to accurately capture the teams attitude. What we have here is a guy who simply does not care for the US Soccer Team. As well, this is an ENCYCLOPEDIA...not a useless collection of quotes/facts. These articles are supposed to be emblematic of a person/place/thing/idea/occurrence, etc. A single quote said in passing during a press conference is not encyclopedic, it's just that...a quote said in passing. There is absolutely ZERO encyclopedic value to this quote that doesn't stem from the POV and OR of Alansohn and another user who I highly suspect is a sockpuppet of Alansohns who has made about 8 edits to[REDACTED] in his history and about 5 of them are to this page...seems awfully suspicious...that and their edit summaries are nearly identical each time. Obviously my vote is delete as there is absolutely NO encyclopedic value to the quote and the Alansohn is using his own pov and original research to back up his argument...no no's in wikipedia. 75.2.6.197 05:07, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

• I don't think there's a single word in your rant that addresses any issue or that is not completely and totally false. I have no view on this issue other than the fact that the quote is reliably sourced, verifiable and encyclopedic. Unless you can provide documentation related to a Misplaced Pages policy that would exclude this, it must be reinstated. Alansohn 23:07, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

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