Revision as of 11:22, 2 June 2019 editMhhossein (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers24,853 edits →Tag: tnx← Previous edit | Revision as of 15:01, 2 June 2019 edit undoIcewhiz (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users38,036 edits →Edit summary is not correctNext edit → | ||
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:::::::::::As I had explained in the edit summary you should not make interpretations of why the US department of state relocated the content. The US department of state made some changes to their website. They now keep that report in section of their website. You are misrepresenting the facts by saying they took it down from their website. --] (]) 10:54, 31 May 2019 (UTC) | :::::::::::As I had explained in the edit summary you should not make interpretations of why the US department of state relocated the content. The US department of state made some changes to their website. They now keep that report in section of their website. You are misrepresenting the facts by saying they took it down from their website. --] (]) 10:54, 31 May 2019 (UTC) | ||
:::::::::::::{{PING|Icewhiz }} can I ask you to convince Stefka about using Tasnim for Iran 's position?! He doesn't want to accept it!. Also Stefka, Don't add undue weight material to lead while I have restored it in the body. | :::::::::::::{{PING|Icewhiz }} can I ask you to convince Stefka about using Tasnim for Iran 's position?! He doesn't want to accept it!. Also Stefka, Don't add undue weight material to lead while I have restored it in the body. I checked the Duch source. It really supports the material. {{tq|De elektricien 'Ali Motamed' (56) die volgens justitie op 15 december 2015 door Amsterdammers is geliquideerd in Almere, was in werkelijkheid vrijwel zeker de in Iran ter dood veroordeelde aanslagpleger Mohammad Reza Kolahi Samadi...Hij was in Nederland onder een schuilnaam een nieuw leven begonnen. | ||
I checked the Duch source. It really supports the material. {{tq|De elektricien 'Ali Motamed' (56) die volgens justitie op 15 december 2015 door Amsterdammers is geliquideerd in Almere, was in werkelijkheid vrijwel zeker de in Iran ter dood veroordeelde aanslagpleger Mohammad Reza Kolahi Samadi...Hij was in Nederland onder een schuilnaam een nieuw leven begonnen. | |||
Reza Kolahi Samadi wordt beschouwd als hoofdverantwoordelijke voor de bomaanslag op 28 juni 1981 op het hoofdkwartier van de Islamitische Republikeinse Partij in Teheran, tijdens een top van partijleiders.}} You can use google translate.] (]) 12:15, 31 May 2019 (UTC) | Reza Kolahi Samadi wordt beschouwd als hoofdverantwoordelijke voor de bomaanslag op 28 juni 1981 op het hoofdkwartier van de Islamitische Republikeinse Partij in Teheran, tijdens een top van partijleiders.}} You can use google translate.] (]) 12:15, 31 May 2019 (UTC) | ||
:::::::::::::: Yes, Tasnim could be use for the Iranian position (at some point in time). However looking at the article it some somewhat full of the positions of various parties - and very short on actual events - e.g. the actual bombing is only one short paragraph - I would think the bombing itself should be expanded. {{ping|Saff V.}} - does this (same text, except for a few sentences beginning with "A few years later, a Kermanshah tribunal executed four...." which appeared twice). ] (]) 15:01, 2 June 2019 (UTC) | |||
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Revision as of 15:01, 2 June 2019
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A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on June 28, 2011 and June 28, 2013. |
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Mohammad Reza Kolahi Samadi living under a false name was assasinated in 2015 in the Netherlands, according to Dutch newspaper Dutch police found out only in 2018 it was Mohammad Reza Kolahi Samadi. Andries (talk) 16:46, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
Source's saying it was MEK
Yes, it was MEK:
"...the MeK launched violent attacks against IRP targets, the largest of which—the bombing of the IRP’s Tehran headquarters—killed more than 70 members of the leadership."
RAND"As in the case, in 1981, of the bombs exploded in the head office of the Islamic Republic Party and the Premier’s office, killing some 70 high-ranking Iranian officials."
"...the MEK launched a bomb campaign against the Islamic government. In 1981, it attacked the headquarters of the Islamic Republic Party, killing 74 senior officials including the party leader and 27 members of parliament."
The Guardian"In 1981 the MEK planted bombs in the head office of the Islamic Republic Party and the Premier’s office, killing some 70 high-ranking Iranian officials."
There are certainly more sources on this. So, don't change the well-sourced facts. --Mhhossein 15:59, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- Read the sources carefully before removing text. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 17:53, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Background
The whole section of Background was removed. while I had checked sources, Unfortunately, the section was based on SYNTH. There was nothing in sources that presented material in Background leads to Hafte Tir bombing. We need sources that exactly say X or Y is the reason for the bombing.Saff V. (talk) 06:31, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
Edit summary is not correct
Please consider this edit, Some of my edits was reverted, while:
- As User:Icewhiz said here, Tasnim can only be used to source IR regime positions, I exactly used Tasnim to make clear Iran Opinion about the bombing.
- It was written in the edit summary Source not found, Tasnim News Agency not RS, and who was thought to be responsible needs to be in the lede, but I cannot find out why this well-sourced sentence According to the U.S department of state, the bombing was carried out by the MEK was removed ? Saff V. (talk) 07:38, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
- (responding to ping) Tasnim (as well as other Iranian agencies) can indeed be used to represent IRI views - however it isn't clearly attributed - i.e.
"As Tasnim News Agency reported, it is not possible..."
is not a clearly attributed statement. The state department PDF is a dead link - and this would seem to me to be a primary document (probably reflecting a view point (possibly even not for State as a whole) for a certain time). Isn't there a secondary source, academic preferably, covering all the claims and counterclaims around the 1981 bombing? Using 1-2 good sources would be preferable to primaryish viewpoints. Icewhiz (talk) 07:44, 22 May 2019 (UTC)- @Icewhiz: There are probably numerous sources saying it as a fact. Three of the for example:
"One week after his removal, MEK's militants bombed IRP headquarters, killing 70 high-ranking members.
ABC-CLIO"From June through September, bombs planted by MEK-notably in the IRP headquarters and governmental offices, killed hundreds... ."
Routledge"On June 28, 1981, they set off a bomb in the conference hall of the IRP headquarters, which killed ... "
Cambridge University Press.
Also, how can I make more clear attribution from Tasnim report? Would you give me a clue?Saff V. (talk) 19:38, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
- None of the academic sources support
"it is not possible that MEK to be fully responsible for the incident, and the bomb had been transmitted to Iran or built by military technicians in the country, with the help of Western and Israeli spy services. In other words, the United States and Israel,"
. Which I will note is mildly unlikely given the Israeli-IRI secret arrangement at that time (weapon supplies to IRI, Operation Scorch Sword/Operation Opera.... Israel was more concerned with Saddam winning, despite the broken relations - Israel's role in the Iran–Iraq war)..... However (my OR here aside), if you really to use Tasnim - then"according to Tasnim...."
. I would suggest, however, sticking to academic sources for a 1981 event.Icewhiz (talk) 19:52, 23 May 2019 (UTC)- Not only I am not going to claim that MEK is fully responsible for the bombing, but also I am just going to gather all opinions for accusing the responsibility of bombing. I replaced according to Tasnim in the article. Thanks for your contribution.Saff V. (talk) 10:28, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Saff V., you keep removing this without any reasoning:
- Not only I am not going to claim that MEK is fully responsible for the bombing, but also I am just going to gather all opinions for accusing the responsibility of bombing. I replaced according to Tasnim in the article. Thanks for your contribution.Saff V. (talk) 10:28, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- None of the academic sources support
"Later a Kermanshah tribunal executed four "Iraqi agents" for the incident, and a tribunal in Tehran executed Mehdi Tafari for the same incident. In 1985, the head of military intelligence informed the press that this had been the work of royalist army officers. Iran's security forces blamed the United States and "internal mercenaries"
.
- This is relevant and backed by RS, please do not remove without an actual reason to. Also, you keep trying to add the following into the article:
According to Tasnim, it is not possible that MEK to be fully responsible for the incident, and the bomb had been transmitted to Iran or built by military technicians in the country, with the help of Western and Israeli spy services. In other words, the United States and Israel, with the sophisticated technology of that day, designed the bomb and plan of operation then presented the bomb and plan to MEK for operating.
- These are speculations by non non reliable sources; far, far, far away from any form of encyclopedic content. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 21:56, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Don't accuse me to remove without reason, while you didn't pay attention to my edit summary or advice of Icewhiz " if you really to use Tasnim - then "according to Tasnim...." or as the said, Tasnim is reliable to explain Iran's position! Lead is a place for important material, Are you going to gather all opinions about the bombing in the lead?! the Kermanshah tribunal executed is in the body and it is enough, don't add it to lead! Also, it is necessary to check newly presented sources bout Kermanshah tribunal, that I will do ASAP.Saff V. (talk) 10:57, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
- Tasmin was disputed by another editor as "dodgy", so there isn't consensus to include it. Also what you've included is hardly encyclopedia material. About the lede, if people were executed in a tribunal as a result of the case, this is important information and lede-worthy - NYT sources backing this up (not Tasmin). Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 19:49, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
- You removed the content sourced by US department of state. A careless edit like that leaves me with no choice other than reverting it.--Kazemita1 (talk) 00:16, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- I didn't remove it, it's still there, and this has nothing to do with the misrepresentation of the Dutch sources that you keep adding to the article. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 08:53, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- You removed the content sourced by US department of state. A careless edit like that leaves me with no choice other than reverting it.--Kazemita1 (talk) 00:16, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- Tasmin was disputed by another editor as "dodgy", so there isn't consensus to include it. Also what you've included is hardly encyclopedia material. About the lede, if people were executed in a tribunal as a result of the case, this is important information and lede-worthy - NYT sources backing this up (not Tasmin). Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 19:49, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
- Don't accuse me to remove without reason, while you didn't pay attention to my edit summary or advice of Icewhiz " if you really to use Tasnim - then "according to Tasnim...." or as the said, Tasnim is reliable to explain Iran's position! Lead is a place for important material, Are you going to gather all opinions about the bombing in the lead?! the Kermanshah tribunal executed is in the body and it is enough, don't add it to lead! Also, it is necessary to check newly presented sources bout Kermanshah tribunal, that I will do ASAP.Saff V. (talk) 10:57, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
References
- Lincoln P. Bloomfield Jr. (2013). Mujahedin-E Khalq (MEK) Shackled by a Twisted History. University of Baltimore College of Public Affairs. p. 27. ISBN 978-0615783840.
- "33 HIGH IRANIAN OFFICIALS DIE IN BOMBIMG AT PARTY MEETING; CHIEF JUDGE IS AMONG VICTIMS", NY Times
- Abrahamian, Ervand (1989). Radical Islam: The Iranian Mojahedin. I.B. Tauris. pp. 219–220. ISBN 978-1-85043-077-3.
- "ابهاماتی از حادثه هفت تیر که هرگز پاسخ داده نشد!". tasnimnews. Retrieved 29 June 2017.
- As I had explained in the edit summary you should not make interpretations of why the US department of state relocated the content. The US department of state made some changes to their website. They now keep that report in this section of their website. You are misrepresenting the facts by saying they took it down from their website. --Kazemita1 (talk) 10:54, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- @Icewhiz: can I ask you to convince Stefka about using Tasnim for Iran 's position?! He doesn't want to accept it!. Also Stefka, Don't add undue weight material to lead while I have restored it in the body. I checked the Duch source. It really supports the material.
De elektricien 'Ali Motamed' (56) die volgens justitie op 15 december 2015 door Amsterdammers is geliquideerd in Almere, was in werkelijkheid vrijwel zeker de in Iran ter dood veroordeelde aanslagpleger Mohammad Reza Kolahi Samadi...Hij was in Nederland onder een schuilnaam een nieuw leven begonnen.
- @Icewhiz: can I ask you to convince Stefka about using Tasnim for Iran 's position?! He doesn't want to accept it!. Also Stefka, Don't add undue weight material to lead while I have restored it in the body. I checked the Duch source. It really supports the material.
Reza Kolahi Samadi wordt beschouwd als hoofdverantwoordelijke voor de bomaanslag op 28 juni 1981 op het hoofdkwartier van de Islamitische Republikeinse Partij in Teheran, tijdens een top van partijleiders. You can use google translate.Saff V. (talk) 12:15, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, Tasnim could be use for the Iranian position (at some point in time). However looking at the article it some somewhat full of the positions of various parties - and very short on actual events - e.g. the actual bombing is only one short paragraph - I would think the bombing itself should be expanded. @Saff V.: - does this reorganization (same text, except for a few sentences beginning with "A few years later, a Kermanshah tribunal executed four...." which appeared twice). Icewhiz (talk) 15:01, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Tag
After making natural and moderate the material of the article, I pick up the tags. @Mhhossein: Has any problem remained?Saff V. (talk) 06:42, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you Saff V. The lead now contains the major points and proper attributions are done. --Mhhossein 11:22, 2 June 2019 (UTC)