Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:19, 27 November 2006

I think this page should include a section on how nurses dislike physician assistants because they require less training yet are assumed to have higher qualities of medical care. (Clamster5 00:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC))

Clamster5 you're welcome to write a bit about the conflicits between PAs and other health care professionals. Nephron  T|C 23:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Good experiences

Its unfortunate for Clamster5, but all the experineces i've had with PA's has been great. I work at a major medical center in Boston and I can't praise them enough! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peck10 (talk • contribs) 16:28, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I have found them woefully undertrained. In the hospital they mostly do scut work that even the residents don't want to do. -THB 22:19, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Well THB, maybe in Australia that is your experience. Here in the USA they are very well educated and are a vital resource. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peck10 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Fortunately, there are no PAs in Australia. I must admit that not all PAs in the US are completely incompetent and they are useful to transport patients to radiology, do routine documentation, fetch supplies for the residents, and check vital signs. As long as they work under close supervision of physicians, the potential for harm is somewhat limited. -THB 03:40, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

What evidence can you supply that shows a lower level of training for a PA than that of a nurse? There are nurses with 2 year degrees, 4 year degrees, masters and doctorate level degrees. There are PA's at each of those levels as well. Check the malpractice statistics and you will find that on a per capita basis, physician assistants are successfully sued less often than physicians. Physician Assistants serve in the military and public health services and are often the first line of care for an injured servicemember--and make the difference between life and death, or keeping limbs! I believe you have used the wrong definition--those doing routine documentation, transporting patients, etc, are typically called MEDICAL assistants. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roadster (talk • contribs) 07:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm not confused at all about PAs and Medical Assistants, not at all. And personally, I don't want someone with a two or four year PA degree (or even a Masters, for that matter) running amok claiming to "practice medicine" on me or anyone I care about. (Something nurses don't claim to do.) I suppose they are useful in the military as well as for doing the scut work in the hospital. -THB 16:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

THB still hasn't supplied any evidence to support his claim that shows a lower level of training compared with a nurse.

It is quite clear that THB is uneducated about that of which you speak. PAs do practice medicine and are educated based on the medical school model and do not pretend to be physicians. They embrace the relationship with their precepting physician and are very skilled clinicians (I would hunch that THB is a NP hmm...) Most PAs worked in medicine (paramedics, RTs, and/or RNs) before becoming PAs and most PA programs require prior medical experience, so before painting things in broad strokes, educate yourself. PAs are not MDs and do not claim to be. However their level of autonomy is based on thier clinical experiences and skill set. So no, you are not going to have a PA fresh out of school doing your cut down and harvesting your Saphenous Vein for a CABG, but you will have a PA with experience doing it, and following and managing you in the ICU. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.0.5 (talk • contribs) 22:14, 31 October 2006) (UTC)

I am a Physician Assistant. Says so on my diploma and my license. Yes, I graduated with an Associate of Science but I was required to have 2 years of college work to get in, and had 140 semester hours credit when I graduated. I did later finish a BS, now having around 197 semester hours. I've long joked I won't go after a Master's Degree unless there's money in it for me. The vast majority of programs are now on the graduate level, and more accomplish that each year. I had 8 years of medical experience, civilian and Navy, before PA school.

I am held to the SAME PROFESSIONAL STANDARD OF PERFORMANCE AS A PHYSICIAN. (caps intentional) As a matter of fact, PAs are often actually held to a higher standard, as a physician believes that even if (s)he cuts corners, no one but another physician can criticise the work. As an example, in the psychiatric hospital where I have worked over 20 years, the physical examination documentation before PAs began performing them was pathetic. Physicians would customarily just write "NML' on every line down the form. These physical exams were often completed within 2 minutes. It takes me about 1/2 hour to perform an exam on an uncomplicated patient from greeting to filing of the paperwork. Now, tell me that I am poorly trained, probably incompetent, and fit only for patient transport!

Nurses have more training??

Though the ANA (American Nursing Association) has declared the basic credential of an RN is now the BSN, there are 4-5 ADNs graduating for every BSN in my state! My hospital has to run an orientation program for newly graduated nurses. I may be old school, but I thought they were taught how to do the work in nursing training!

I consult with my SPs (supervising physicians) several times daily, and take great comfort in having them backing me up! If they get in trouble with a patient, they have to dig _themselves_ out.

I take pride in taking good care of patients and feel sorrow when I cannot help a patient reach wellness.

I agree that THB should read WP:Etiquette and WP:Civility.

Bob Franks, Physician Assistant, Goldsboro, NC — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bob2 (talk • contribs) 00:33, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, if you had carefully read what was written, the etiquette/civility statement was directed at someone else. Thank you for the anecdote supporting my contention that PAs are useful for doing routine documentation. -THB 05:15, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the back and forth is very productive. Perhaps the place for this would be an article called conflicits between medical professionals or medical hierarchy. It would be interesting to have a hierarchy like this one. Nephron  T|C 22:41, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Physician's "Associates" ??

PA stands for "assistant" and assistant only. Associate implies equals, though PAs are midlevel providers along with nurse practioners and nurse midwives. PHysicians are top level providers. The word "Associate" should be removed from the opening paragraph. It is totally made up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.50.28.153 (talk • contribs) 00:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

This is simply not the case. Some PA programs in the USA are refered to as Physician Associates. just a few for example. In recent discussion groups in the PA world, the term Associate is being debated because it better reflect the relationship of the PA with the Physician. PAs do not pretend to be (nor want to be) physicians. However in todays world of medicine the role they play is more of an associate than the term assistant implies. Hences the debate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.183.65.204 (talk • contribs) 09:15, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I would tend to disagree. I graduated with a Bachelor of Science Degree as a Physician Associate, and subsequently received a second degree as a Master of Physician Assistant Studies--Family Medicine. Do I consider myself to be an equal of a physician, absolutely not. In 1971, what is now the American Academy of Physician Assistants was the American Association of Physician Associates (http://www.pahx.org/period03.html). Roadster 15:18, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The certification uniformly appears to be called physician assistant. I looked at the three references provided; the first (Yale) states "... and advance the physician assistant profession." and the third states "... is to educate physician assistants...", if one looks a bit further. The second reference is a page about a training program for medical students (i.e. physicians-in-training)-- " is open to third year medical students enrolled in the University of Minnesota Medical School at the Twin Cities or Duluth campuses." -- and in a sense justifies the criticism by User:68.50.28.153. To me, it looks like a few physician assistant programs are trying to push the envelope a bit and make their program sound like they are training people that are equals to physicians.

In any case, I encourage both of you (User:68.50.28.153 & User:132.183.65.204) to register (see WP:REGISTER). Nephron  T|C 22:07, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the reference to "Physician Associates" -- based on this reference (Physician Assistant History Center): "In the 1980's, the American Academy of Physician Assistants (AAPA) recommended that graduates of AMA accredited programs refer to themselves as physician assistants and that legislation enacted by states use this terminology to reduce confusion. Physician Assistant is the current term used to describe the profession." Nephron  T|C 22:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC)