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Eisner Award

I don't know how to add a citation, but this was mentioned by Dan Vado (President/Founder of SLG) in the 2005 Jhonen feature panel at San Diego Comic Con. Video of this panel can be readily found on youtube. Rubberducky 11:03, 14 October 2006

I don't think we can use YouTube as a source, though... --InShaneee 15:07, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

But the panel itself should be able to be sourced, shouldn't it? I don't think where the video of the panel is hosted should be an issue; I mean, whether it's hosted at a personal website or at YouTube, it's the same video. But if the location of the hosting is a big deal, I can offer to host the videos on my personal webspace - or if video itself can't be cited for whatever really strange reason, I can also type up a transcription. Rubberducky 12:30, 15 October 2006

That's exactly the problem, actually...Misplaced Pages can't link to content of questionable copyright status, and we have no idea who holds the copyright to that video. --InShaneee 18:22, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

What about the transcription idea, then? Does the questionable copyright status on the original video transfer over to that, as well? Tracking who originally filmed the video would probably be nigh impossible. Maybe I am just ignorant as to the workings of Misplaced Pages and etc but it seems... very odd to me to not be able to use things that Jhonen is saying, on video, as a source just because we don't know who taped the video. --Rubberducky 21:32, 16 October 2006

I think if you quote from it and then mention it was said in a panel at Comic Con it would be okay, and then people could check for themselves if they had any doubts.--68.35.94.119 01:52, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Stick Figure

This is a pretty good article..BUT: 'His characters are thin to the point of almost being stick figures.' I've got alot of Jhonens work and as far as I can see there arent many stick figures at all (...Not including Happy Noodle Boy). So just wondering if anyone else feels the same... I could be totally wrong though :P Kokiri kid 11:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I suppose a more accurate sentence would be "Jhonen's main characters are often thin to the point of almost beign stick figures." As Johnny, Devi and of course, Happy Noodle Boy are all very thin. In one of the Johnny comics, Johnny mentions that he was called Happy Noodle Boy as a kid, for being very skinny. It is unclear whether this has any bearing on Jhonen's own youth. Weenerbunny 18:59, 08 June 2006

Is The Bad Art Collection a TV show? If so, it can be merged with the list in the previous paragraph.

Also, add his date of birth if possible.

Molinari

The Bad Art Collection is actually a small comic-sized book which contains just what the title implies: bad art. 16 pages of... bad art. --Kakosenas 03:29, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hm... isnt his name pronounced Ho-nin Vass-Kezz? Not, Jo-nin? 68.147.195.99 19:31, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It is a hispanic name but only if your speaking in spanish would it be Ho-nin. --BerserkerBen 3 July 2005 15:24 (UTC)

So, should I start pronouncing San José, California to rhyme with rose? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 21:19, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

To your rebuttal, a rebuttal: So do you pronounce "Los Angeles" like "Los Anheles?" I would say however he chose to pronounce it (introduce himself) would be correct, though personally I don't know how he does.--Lord Shitzu 23:51, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

No, I say "Loss Anjehliss", but I wasn't the one trying to be prescriptive about how the man's name was pronounced. ;) --Dante Alighieri | Talk 15:41, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

All my Spanish speaking relatives (the majority of my relatives) call me "ben-hum-ing" (phonetically written, attempting to at least) while my English speaking relatives call be “ben-ja-men” so please tell me which is the correct pronunciation? If you can do that then we can figure out Jhonen's name. --BerserkerBen 02:09, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Again, *I* was not the one being prescriptive about pronunciation. *I* am making no statements about "correct" pronunciation, *you* were. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 19:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

The problem with that argument is that you assume that just because he is a Mexican-American that his first name is automatically Spanish, and should be pronounced as such. It's "Jo-Nehn". And the last name would be pronounced "Bass-kes(with the S trailing into a light 'z')" in Mexican Spanish.

In an interview on G4's "ScreenSavers", the announcer pronounced his name "yo-hawn". Jhonen corrected this by saying, "It is jo-nen, by the way. I hate you, whoever said that." So, regardless of how his name was originally intended to be pronounced, Jhonen prefers jo-nen. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.81.51.251 (talk • contribs)

According to Spookyland/Roman-

Jhonen (pronounced: Joe-nen)

- YES you pronounce the "J", and it's a hard "J" (like "joke" or "job")

- The "H" is silent (like "ghost" and "rhyme")

- The "E" is a soft/short "E". (like "pen" and "hen"). --— Preceding unsigned comment added by BitterSunrise (talk • contribs)

okay first of all it is JO-nen he says so himself in the comentary for Invader Zim. if any of you were ture Zim fans (or jhonen fans watching the show because it was his work) youd know that Note i an not being arrogent i just want to clearify that he says his name is pornounced jo-nen not ho-nen. --dino-amie october 14 2006 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.234.126.182 (talk • contribs) signed with name at odds with identity recorded in History

Nobody Expects Jinji

What does "Nobody Expects Jinji" even mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ace Class Shadow (talk • contribs)

Umm... what is this "Nobody Expects Jinji" from? Am I missing something here? Maybe you should be a little more specific. DreamsofTacos 18:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism from months and months ago. Moving on... --InShaneee 20:06, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Picture

I found a picture of Jhonen here: http://www.supersnail.com/images8/3__ape_05_01_juaxss.jpg. But, I don't know the licensing! Help me! Red Alien 22:12, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

• If you wanted to use it, you'd have to ask the person who runs that site (who also appears to claim copyright over all its pictures) to release the pic under a copyright licence such as Creative Commons. --InShaneee 22:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

• The persone how complaned that the photo was old can explane him self,It's not like if he is 80 years old now.--Pixel ;-) 19:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

• No, but he does look quite different in that photo, which was taken in 1999, I believe, than he does now. I would think that it would make sense to use a recent picture, not one from almost eight years ago. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/dreamsoftacos/the%20night/Jhonen.jpg is a very recent picture, from his signing at Chicago Comics in late August. --Rubberducky

• Hehe, that's actually from my Photobucket, I'm glad I can help spread the joy of Jhonen. --DreamsofTacos 11:33 8 November 2006

• If it's your photo, do you mind if we use it for the picture in the article, instead of the horrendously old one? --Rubberducky 7:22 14 November 2006

• Go for it! Jhonen is so hard to find, anything of his, actually. And pictures of Jhonen in my account are good for use. DreamsofTacos 20:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

• Ok, so, InShaneee, what would be the correct procedure for posting the new picture, since evidently I've done it incorrectly? --Rubberducky 15:23 18 November 2006 (EST)

New Comic

well ... the character design looks like ... and .. it is about love .... and has goths...

http://iamjapanese.blogspot.com/

for a better layout ... try http://www.groggie.com/w1k/strippers/ and go to "meowza"...

the article mentions that rikki is the voice of gir and on the coloring team twice-chris june 28 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rubberducky (talk • contribs)

Jhonen to Jhnen?

There's a rumor going around that Jhonen has changed his name (at least the spelling) to Jhnen. Even his official journal seems to prefer this spelling, so it well might be true. Does anyone have more information on this matter? It seems a worthy thing to mention in the article if it is fact. --68.35.94.119 21:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

No, Jhonen has not changed the spelling of his name. The 'Jhnen VEE / Jhnen V / VEE' thing is just a funky little abbreviation he uses sometimes on the interwebulous. --Rubberducky 19:42, 23 October 2006 (EST)

-- I believe he started writing his name as jhnen to try to throw people off his scent, so they couldnt figure out his instant messenger contacts. Chris Furniss - weeklygeekshow.com 23:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Please

Please stop putting back that whole "critism of Goth culture and lifestyle," section. It is not nessecairy. --— Preceding unsigned comment added by User:The Powerful (talk • contribs)

No, you need to stop blanking it. The section is sourced and relevant, and removing it again will be considered vandalism. --InShaneee 17:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me? Where are you to come and tell ME what to do? As for vandalism, that's not for you to accuse. --— Preceding unsigned comment added by User:The Powerful (talk • contribs)

I'm an administrator and a long time user. It wasn't an accusation, it was a fact. --InShaneee 19:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Whatever... :(

Here, let me bring up an argument with that segment. People don't have the right to label him however, it should not be listed that he has spoken against the goth culture. If he HATES us then why are so many of his friends (such as Roman Dirge and musician Voltaire) are Goth, the victims of NNY's are not even considered actual Goths, but mallgoth posers. For example, in one of the MEANWHILES the letter from the stereotypical masonite obviously suggested he did not have the passion for the subculture as most goths, but only did that to fit in. Also, he uses Goth charecters and heros such as Devi (who is NOT a goth depiction), Tess and NNY. Sure, the charecters learned from their expirences but you never see a dramatic word/message or crappy phont "change". Jhonen has never spoken against the subculture in general but how many people don't apperciate the true meanings. -The Powerful -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by User:The Powerful (talk • contribs) (redlink to nowhere; improperly signed)

What we have is what is verifiable. Removing it again will be considered vandalism (again). --InShaneee 15:19, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

How come you did not acknoweldge any of the things I mentioned? Why can't you just put some POSITIVE things in there that he's done for the goth subculture rather than continually critqueing it negatively AS you people ALWAYS do. -The Powerful -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by User:The Powerful (talk • contribs) (redlink to nowhere; improperly signed)

Reread the section. It says nothing negative. You're being hypersensitive.Theplanetsaturn 03:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm really fucking tired of people saying he hates the subculture. If he's so NOT Goth, then how come he's never denounced himself in the subculture? Sure, he's said it about his comics but he's really fond of the culture. Read Suicide Girls interview. Also, the fillerbunny thing was bullshit. The guy was critizing the culture as well as Vasquez, that's why he died. Plus, if there's any catergory he fits under it would be hippie. Goth forever. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.144.174.133 (talk) 02:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

It has always been my impression that Jhonen is not fond of the current form of the goth subculture - that is to say, Hot-Topicky Mallgoths - or people who are in it for the dramatics or to try and fit in by pretending to be isolated. Unfortunately, that seems to be about 90% of the 'goth' population at the moment - something that he sees fit to comment on in a humorous and satirical (and sometimes annoyed) manner. But really, this whole 'goth or not goth' debate is pretty much pointless and stupid - why does anyone give a shit? Leave him alone and let him draw, or play WoW, or whatever. Meanwhile, reread the section, because it says absolutely nothing about Jhonen hating goths, just comments on the 'issue'.megumi 05:24, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The section says nothing about his "hating the subculture". Producing satire does not equal hate. Reread the section.Theplanetsaturn 03:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Vasquez hates the lable "goth", for both himself and his works. The article does not suggest that he hates the goth subculture. Many of his works do contain satires of goth, as the article states, but satire is a form of constuctive criticism, not hate, as Theplanetsaturn pointed out. Vasquez would probably puke all over himself if he knew anyone viewed him as a "hippie". He just hates lables, and people who apply them to him or his work, especially when his work obviously has absolutely nothing to do with the subculture, such as Fillerbunny. Ecto 04:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU ECTO??!!!! Who gives a shit, ducky? I do! Because he does not hate the subculture and where has he denounced himself as Goth? WHERE??!!!

Hating the label and hating the subculture are not the same thing. You need to relax. Jhonen does not hate the subculture, but like most artists, he dislikes an inherently limiting description of his work, and has said as much himself.Theplanetsaturn 02:38, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

what's with the crummy, dated picture?

Pretty sure he looks nothing like that now; do you think we could get a more recent one? 87.244.71.96 05:54, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Looks like him to me.Theplanetsaturn 05:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I have a more recent one, as mentioned above in 'Picture', but when I tried to upload it it got removed for "incorrect licensing." I'm not too familiar with Misplaced Pages, but the license is "This guy who took it said right on this page here that we could use it" - if someone can translate that and post the picture above, it would solve the problem. megumi 05:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Hardcover

I went to the page Rubberducky cited, at Mars Import here. The hardcover is listed as out of stock, and the publisher, Slave Labor Graphics, simply does not list it at the Slave Labor store] nor mention it on the Slave Labor creators' page. Publishers frequently announce books, and even send out art for them, but for one reason or another the book never comes out. Honest to goodness, I have tried to confirm this book's existence, but without it being available to buy, or if sold out there being an ISBN number, there isn't any way to verify that it actually came out. And WP:VERIFY is one of the cardinal rules of Misplaced Pages.

Look, keep at it. I have no personal stake in this whatsoever. I'm just saying that Misplaced Pages is very careful about telling us that we can't put in material that can't be verified. If it exists, we can find it. --Tenebrae 01:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

It's listed as out of stock because it's out of print. But it certainly does exist.Theplanetsaturn 03:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

That's great. But I apologize for being unclear. How do you know it exists? An encyclopedia can't just take somebody's word for it.--Tenebrae 03:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

An encyclopedia cannot hamstring itself to the point of absurdity either. I know the book exists because I have a copy. Because I have unpacked boxes of them and I have spoken with the publisher on this matter. If you are overly concerned about veracity of this, you could simply call the listed phone number for the company and ask. Flip through back issues of the Diamond catalog and view the solicitations for the book. Evidence of all things does not, and will not exist on the internet. Websites come and go, with little concern for historic record. That does not mean an encyclopedia should cease listing the facts. Particularly over such a small matter.Theplanetsaturn 03:43, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Here's something. But I doubt it will last.Theplanetsaturn 04:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

http://www.mothcomix.com/html/BrowseSearch/Results/Artist.asp?prdArtist=V

Don't get huffy. And don't ask other people to do research for your claims.

"Hamstring to the point of absuridy"? What, an encyclopedia should just take people's words for things? There are pranksters a'plenty who use Misplaced Pages for fun — go online and read up on some of these things ... The New York Times has even written about it. Nobody has any way of knowing who you are or if you're telling the truth about unpacking boxes, etc. Think about it, and I'm sure you'll see I'm telling the truth.

As it happens, the site you provided — that of a reputable dealer offering a rare hardcover book for sale — is a credible source. We can't list it in References or in a footnote because Misplaced Pages disallows links to commercial sites, but you've convinced me the book exists. Add the hardcover info — I myself will leave it in even without the specific cite. Other editors might not accept that; they may insist on an ISBN, which would be within their rights to do so.

Don't mean to take a shot, but I always find it ironic when people say, "Oh, this is a small thing" ... and fight you like it's a big thing! :-) All good here. --Tenebrae 04:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

The trick with print is that it lacks intonation. I assure you, nothing in my previous post falls under the designation of huffy. If I were so minded, I would speak plainly of my irritation. With that said...

Should an encyclopedia simply "take people's words for things", of course not. And I never suggested they should. But you found evidence entirely suggestive of the existence of the book, and choose to dismiss it. You did not search very deeply for proof, as a simple Google search of "Jhonen" and "hardcover" revealed a picture of the book in question. If you want to discuss reliable journalistic practices, look at your own actions first.

And for the record, many SLG books (particularly earlier ones like the book in question) are unlikely to have an isbn number. The inclusion of comics in bookstores is a more modern practice. If that is a necessary criteria, many factual things will be lost in the quagmire of verifiability. So no, I don't think the aforementioned editors would be within their rights at all to casually delete in the manner you suggest. Bare minimum, it would be irresponsible.

And yes, it is a small thing. But words are cheap and my alternative would have been a reversion without explanation. Would that actually have been preferable?Theplanetsaturn 04:57, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

We need a reliable source. It's either leave the warning, or remove the passage altogether. --InShaneee 05:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

This is getting absurd. A cursory search for the title reveals it for sale on eBay. I already pointed to a website that carries it. The source on the article includes a picture of the printed product. The book exists. End of story.Theplanetsaturn 06:11, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Ebay is not a valid source. A publisher is needed. --InShaneee 06:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I added a reference for the hardcover's existence and availability from a review by Revolution SF. Hope that helps, Theplanetsaturn. Ecto 07:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

In response to Theplanetsaturn:

• "You did not search very deeply for proof" — because it wasn't my claim. It's every editor's own responsibility to provide confirmable, verifiable documentation for his or her edits. You don't put it off on other people.
• "you found evidence entirely suggestive of the existence of the book" — and your own word, "suggestive", means it wasn't confirmable. "If you want to discuss reliable journalistic practices..." Please don't quote journalistic ethics to me: That field is how I make my living. Are you a journalist?
• "many SLG books (particularly earlier ones like the book in question) are unlikely to have an isbn number" — and you know this how? ISBN #s have been in use since the early 1970s. The trade paperback has an ISBN #. A hardcover edition of the same book not having an ISBN # would give any journalist worth his or her salt some doubts.

I'll look at Ecto's reference. The fact that another editor, InShaneee, wants to hold Misplaced Pages to the same standards as a print encyclopedia is valid. To call that kind of care "irresponsible" is just turning logic on its head. --Tenebrae 00:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

In response to Tenebrae:

It's unfortunate that I have to spell this out for you.

• "It wasn't my claim" — Your claim, specifically, was that the book was unavailable for purchase through a simple Google search. That has been shown to be patently false. It is your responsibility to research your claims before you justify the deletion of information with them. You clearly did a poor job of it. Bare minimum, you should have opened this up for discussion here before enacting your deletion.

• "It's every editor's own responsibility to provide confirmable, verifiable documentation for his or her edits." — And you failed to do so with your edit. You made false claims while ignoring substantial evidence.

• "Please don't quote journalistic ethics to me" — That field is how I make my living. Are you a journalist?" Nice appeal to authority. There is a reason that is considered a logical fallacy. Regardless, I've been a professional writer for 15 years, and as long as you continue to exhibit a lack of understanding of the principals of journalism, I'll continue to quote journalistic ethics to you. As for your supposed career, who cares? It's your actions here that are relevant, and you made edits justified with patently false claims. This field is how you make your living? Forgive me for finding that difficult to believe..

• "it wasn't confirmable" — There is a photograph of a physical copy of the book on the Mars Import website. You want to claim that photographic evidence is not worth being considered a form of confirmation, be my guest. But it is plainly a ridiculous claim.

• "The trade paperback has an ISBN #:" — I already made this clear for you. The trade paperback has continued to be reprinted where the hardcover is an earlier release. The adoption of ISBN #'s is relatively new to the alternative comics industry. SLG rarely used ISBN numbers before 2000, as without a substantial presence in the book market, it was considered an unnecessary expense. End result: an ISBN number cannot be the end all be all of proof for this category. To use your own approach: I know this because it's how I make my living. You call yourself a journalist? Investigate. Seriously. Just try it. It's really not that difficult.

• "The fact that another editor, InShaneee, wants to hold Misplaced Pages to the same standards as a print encyclopedia is valid." — Your claim ( and the claim that InShaneee persisted in reiterating) that this book is unavailable for purchase through a Google search, and therefore likely does not exist was obviously incorrect. A simple Google search of the title shows multiple websites where the hardcover edition can be purchased. These websites show copies of the book through photos. Photos taken from multiple perspectives. The same Google search also shows the book for sale on an earlier version of the publishers own website. The book exists. End of story. Insisting on verification past this point is unreasonable and deleting information from the page based on this incorrect information is blatantly irresponsible. But hey, rather than discuss this, why don't you agree to let the matter lie, then run along and tattle once more. Good show Mr. Journalist.Theplanetsaturn 07:10, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

In response to Tenebrae:

While we are here, lets take a look at your lies, and how they pertain to this discussion, Mr. Journalist. Below is the information you posted about this exchange elsewhere on Misplaced Pages:

• "He was reverting two editors, myself and User:InShaneee, even though he wasn't providing a confirmable, verifiable cite for a claim that seemed fishy." ---- A claim that seemed fishy? Really? That's funny. You already agreed that I had found a "reputable" and "credible" source, and that I should re-add the hardcover publication information. Something is fishy here, oh yes. Perhaps it is the stink of your hypocrisy.

• "On the talk page, he wanted other editors to take his word for the claim." ---- No. I used my word for discussion. I used a site you agreed was both "reputable" and "credible" for the claim. So there is another bit of your hypocrisy exposed.

• "When two editors tried to explain the need for verifiable content, he got huffy and argumentative." ---- I was quite clear before that if I had indeed been "huffy" you would know. And now you should be all to aware that you have pushed me to the point of ire. If you cannot see the difference, you are a poor judge of character should rethink your career, Mr. Journalist.

• "Still, the editor in question made continuous reverts, as cited, all because he couldn't find a valid cite and accused us of somehow being "irresponsible" for asking for one." ---- By all means, in the relevant discussion, show me where I ever claimed you or InShaneee was "irresponsible". Do you understand context, Mr. Journalist? You purposefully misquote me when I point that holding this medium to a criteria not universally utilized would be "irresponsible". To simplify so that you may better understand, If comics do not always use ISBN numbers, and an editor deletes information because no ISBN number can be found, THAT would be an irresponsible act. That is what I said I you took that entirely and purposefully out of context. Lowest form of reporting right there. You should be ashamed of yourself. But I suspect as you had to go behind my back to make this argument, rather than discuss it with me yourself, you already feel said shame.Theplanetsaturn 08:22, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

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